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The origins of "Whatever Happens"

I always thought it was "He gives another smile" too! Played that part a couple of times over and I'll now sing "He gives a nervous smile", but I still can't help but hear the word "another" as well :p

One of my most favourite songs off Invincible :heart:
 
respect77 said:
Yes, I agree that out of all MJ albums Invincible sounds the least Michael-ish and it's my least favorite album of him too, but on the other hand it has some gems and even elements which are more impressive in the hindsight (such as his use of dubstep in 2001!!).

But I agree that Michael's best songs were always the ones he wrote and it's a shame he did not write more on Vince. On Vince every song has a big number of writers and producers and that eventually kills off the Michael-feel of them.
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dubstep?
 
A fantastic song, and a highlight of the invincible album.

However, to me the album is over produced. While there are no bad songs on the record, I also feel the production of most of the songs takes away from what made every other album Different. Music in general in 2001 (not too unlike now) hit a low point for me. I found most popular music sounded like it was produced by the same people, and to me invincible is no different. I love this album still, and is the only good thing for me to come out during a terrible period in music, but I wish that Michael had used less producers to give the songs a more natural feel.

I worry for the new album also. The current sound of music to me is absolutely awful- everything sounds like it was produced by either will.i.am or david Guetta. Music again has lost its originality (even some rock bands of today are using this dance style production). I long for a crack in the clouds and music to sound inspired and innovative again, but I really just hope that the new Michael album will not have this sound and truly sound like Michael would have really wanted.

Just because it sounds current, does not mean it sounds great.
 
innuendo141 said:
A fantastic song, and a highlight of the invincible album.

However, to me the album is over produced... ...I worry for the new album also. The current sound of music to me is absolutely awful- everything sounds like it was produced by either will.i.am or david Guetta. Music again has lost its originality (even some rock bands of today are using this dance style production). I long for a crack in the clouds and music to sound inspired and innovative again, but I really just hope that the new Michael album will not have this sound and truly sound like Michael would have really wanted.

Just because it sounds current, does not mean it sounds great.
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I agree on the overproduced part for Invincible.

I would say that 'the current sound of music' pretty much just comes down to personal taste. I quite like a lot of the music being produced today and as such, like a decent amount of music that is released these days. For the record, I listen to both mainstream and non-mainstream artists, it varies. That's why I think that concept of including both the demos and updated songs is great because it allows everyone to enjoy the music, regardless of whether they like the sound of today's music or not. I know that Michael often wanted to sound modern and push the medium at the same time so who knows what producers like Timbaland will do. Maybe they'll try and push MJ's songs to where music is going next! Who knows :)
 
Having subsequently heard much of the material that never made the final cut, I do think there was potential for Invincible to have been a much better album than it ended up being.

1. Unbreakable
2. Hollywood Tonight
3. Invincible
4. Break of Dawn
5. Heaven Can Wait
6. You Rock My World
7. Butterflies
8. Speechless
9. Another Day
10. You Are My Life
11. We've Had Enough
12. The Lost Children
13. Whatever Happens
14. Threatened

Now that's a tight album right there. Still probably not as good as History or Dangerous, but much better than what we ended up getting on Invincible. The inclusion of Hollywood Tonight and We've Had Enough really bolster the amount of A grade MJ songs on the album, and Another Day is ten times better than dross like Privacy or Don't Walk Away.
 
I like Don't Walk Away. Can't say I prefer Another Day. I'd have rather left out You Are My Life or The Lost Children than Don't Walk Away.
But yeah, there are a lot of outtakes from that era that could have made it a better album. Having said that even in its released form the album had more potential than what it achieved. But everyone knows the story about that.
 
Do you not like The Lost Children? To me, it's quintessential MJ. I appreciate that some may find it a little too saccharine, but then no more so than a song like Heal The World. I think it's one of the most honest songs on the album.

I actually think the first half of Invincible (up to and including Speechless) is pretty strong. But it goes a bit all over the place in the second half and lacks any real focus.
 
The Lost Children is OK, but I'm not crazy for that song. I prefer Don't Walk Away. I also understand that a song like You Are My Life was important to him for personal reasons, but again I'm not crazy for it. But then if Freddie Mercury could write a cheesy song for his cat on a Queen album... well it makes You Are My Life sound great. LOL.
 
I like invincible. I have a couple favorite songs off that album. I love "don't walk away", "you are my life", "speechless", "you rock my world", "whatever happens", "butterflies", "break of dawn", "the lost children", "privacy", and these are not in any particular order.
 
Butterflies. said:
The Lost Children is one of my favorite songs from Invincible. You guys might say that Invincible sounded less like "Michael" but you got to admit, his vocals were amazing in that album.
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This is a really good point and it reminds me that Seth Riggs said that a singer's voice is best during the later years--I think he said from 35-50. It takes time for the voice to mature and develop its full power.
 
Reminds me that when MJ sang Akon's HMH--Akon said "he took it to a whole other level" and I think this is what goes on with Whatever Happens. Listening to the demo and then MJ, I hear MJ taking that song to a whole other level.
 
jamba said:
Reminds me that when MJ sang Akon's HMH--Akon said "he took it to a whole other level" and I think this is what goes on with Whatever Happens. Listening to the demo and then MJ, I hear MJ taking that song to a whole other level.
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I agree. Michael's vocals on that song are amazing. The sheer emotion he manages to express in his voice.
 

Demo / Whatever Happens - 1997

Gil Cang / Geoffry Williams

Comment from Gil Cang in the YT comments saying the vocals are done by Geoffry Wiliams.
 
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One of the best songs on the Invincible album. Michael did a great job, and Santana was fantastic as always on guitar. It's a shame it never got released as a single with a potential short film. It would have topped the charts.

Hell I bet you could EASILY put it on radio today and it would do well.
 
Whatever Happens is a banger. It could have been a hit if it got released as a single.

Recently, Heaven Can Wait and Chicago have blown up on TikTok, which has resulted in massive increase in their streams on Spotify. I would love Whatever Happens to be the next song to blow up on TikTok.
 
AlwaysThere said:
I’m thinking that maybe MJ and Teddy’s credit comes from the “Wild West” intro that isn’t present in the demo. I know MJ likes to take undue credit, but at least there’s some potential with this one.
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Listening to the demo and the final version side by side it’s an open and shut case. There were many, many added things to the arrangement. Changes in the instrumentation, different rhythms, added sections etc, guitar outro, Wild West riff. The credit is absolutely justified in my opinion. Not even debatable
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
Listening to the demo and the final version side by side it’s an open and shut case. There were many, many added things to the arrangement. Changes in the instrumentation, different rhythms, added sections etc, guitar outro, Wild West riff. The credit is absolutely justified in my opinion. Not even debatable
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Except of course that usually, one doesn't get a writing credit for arrangement. It one did, then Quincy would be credited on every single MJ song on OTW, Thriller and Bad, and so would Greg Phillinganes. Ringo would be credited on every single Lennon-McCartney song, the guy who played bass would be credited on Bob Dylan's Like a Rolling Stone, etc.

It doesn't work that way.
 
It's a decent song, and definitely the best track on Invincible, but it was too calculated and lazy for MJ; clearly he didn't have much input on the song itself, and he was jumping on the post-Supernatural Santana bandwagon. Him saying, "Thank you, Carlos" at the end was also unnecessary.
 
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Invincible has some of my favorite MJ songs: Butterflies, Whatever Happens, YRMW, Break of Dawn, Threatened, Unbreakable, etc. I actually started screaming when I first heard YRMW and Butterflies. It was Michael at his sexiest. Every radio DJ in my city fell in love with this album and R&B fans LOVED this album.Radio DJs played YRMW and Butterflies to death. They made these songs a hit; even if Sony wanted to sabotage them.# I have always thought this album was criminally underrated. This was the Michael I wanted to hear MORE of. I didn’t care if he used other songwriters or not on Invincible. This album brought in a whole new group of fans who were not listening to Michael or who had drifted away. Sony/Tommy Mottola sabotaged this album and the promotion for it. Despite their efforts, it STILL sold more than any other album released that year. Just think what it would have sold without the sabotage.
 
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somewhereinthedark said:
Invincible has some of my favorite MJ songs: Butterflies, Whatever Happens, YRMW, Break of Dawn, Threatened, Unbreakable, etc. I actually started screaming when I first heard YRMW and Butterflies. It was Michael at his sexiest. Every radio DJ in my city fell in love with this album and R&B fans LOVED this album.Radio DJs played YRMW and Butterflies to death. They made these songs a hit; even if Sony wanted to sabotage them.# I have always thought this album was criminally underrated. This was the Michael I wanted to hear MORE of. I didn’t care if he used other songwriters or not on Invincible. This album brought in a whole new group of fans who were not listening to Michael or who had drifted away. Sony/Tommy Mottola sabotaged this album and the promotion for it. Despite their efforts, it STILL sold more than any other album released that year. Just think what it would have sold without the sabotage.
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N
 
somewhereinthedark said:
Invincible has some of my favorite MJ songs: Butterflies, Whatever Happens, YRMW, Break of Dawn, Threatened, Unbreakable, etc. I actually started screaming when I first heard YRMW and Butterflies. It was Michael at his sexiest. Every radio DJ in my city fell in love with this album and R&B fans LOVED this album.Radio DJs played YRMW and Butterflies to death. They made these songs a hit; even if Sony wanted to sabotage them.# I have always thought this album was criminally underrated. This was the Michael I wanted to hear MORE of. I didn’t care if he used other songwriters or not on Invincible. This album brought in a whole new group of fans who were not listening to Michael or who had drifted away. Sony/Tommy Mottola sabotaged this album and the promotion for it. Despite their efforts, it STILL sold more than any other album released that year. Just think what it would have sold without the sabotage.
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Sony didn't sabotage the album. Sony weren't willing to pay for more marketing after MJ wasted time and delayed the album twice, Sony paying for it the whole time. Then when MJ refused to tour for the album they weren't willing to pay any more money. MJ then went on a weird anti sony campaign and tried to say they actively sabotaged the entire album.
 
kreen said:
Except of course that usually, one doesn't get a writing credit for arrangement. It one did, then Quincy would be credited on every single MJ song on OTW, Thriller and Bad, and so would Greg Phillinganes. Ringo would be credited on every single Lennon-McCartney song, the guy who played bass would be credited on Bob Dylan's Like a Rolling Stone, etc.

It doesn't work that way.
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In many cases, Greg Phillinganes was relegated to arrangement credits, when in fact he deserved to get co-writing credits (like, when he wrote the 'Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough' bridge section).

He preferred to be not too demanding when it came to getting the credits that he deserved because it was more important for him to continue working with Michael Jackson.
somewhereinthedark said:
Sony/Tommy Mottola sabotaged this album and the promotion for it. Despite their efforts, it STILL sold more than any other album released that year. Just think what it would have sold without the sabotage.
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SmoothGangsta said:
Sony didn't sabotage the album. Sony weren't willing to pay for more marketing after MJ wasted time and delayed the album twice, Sony paying for it the whole time. Then when MJ refused to tour for the album they weren't willing to pay any more money. MJ then went on a weird anti sony campaign and tried to say they actively sabotaged the entire album.
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It is not just that Sony Music were not willing to pay for more marketing after Michael Jackson wasted time and delayed the album twice or more times, and also after that he refused to tour for the album.

Michael Jackson announced also to Sony Music (towards the end of those sessions) that he decided to leave the record company.

So, it would have been unwise of Sony Music to continue spending money on an album from an artist that he no longer belonged to them.
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
Listening to the demo and the final version side by side it’s an open and shut case. There were many, many added things to the arrangement. Changes in the instrumentation, different rhythms, added sections etc, guitar outro, Wild West riff. The credit is absolutely justified in my opinion. Not even debatable
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As kreen pointed out, writing and arrangement are two entirely different things. MJ and Teddy contributed nothing to the actual song; they merely enhanced the production. In no world does that merit a co-writing credit. If it did, Quincy should be credited on every single song on MJ’s “big three,” and several others (Bruce Swedien, René Moore, John Barnes, Christopher Currell, Bill Bottrell, etc.) should be credited on latter albums.
 
AlwaysThere said:
As kreen pointed out, writing and arrangement are two entirely different things. MJ and Teddy contributed nothing to the actual song; they merely enhanced the production. In no world does that merit a co-writing credit. If it did, Quincy should be credited on every single song on MJ’s “big three,” and several others (Bruce Swedien, René Moore, John Barnes, Christopher Currell, Bill Bottrell, etc.) should be credited on latter albums.
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It’s murky waters for sure but doesn’t that guitar section constitute of changes in the actual song and not just production? In the same way that Greg Philliganes thought that he deserved co writing credits for his section in DSTYGE?
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
It’s murky waters for sure but doesn’t that guitar section constitute of changes in the actual song and not just production? In the same way that Greg Philliganes thought that he deserved co writing credits for his section in DSTYGE?
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It's not the same thing. Greg Phillinganes came up with a new selection of chords for that bridge section which weren't part of the composition.

Michael and Teddy's intro to Whatever Happens contains the same chords which are present in the verses and they merely added a melody on top of them, the whistle. That doesn't count as songwriting.
 
I’m
dethorro said:
It's not the same thing. Greg Phillinganes came up with a new selection of chords for that bridge section which weren't part of the composition.

Michael and Teddy's intro to Whatever Happens contains the same chords which are present in the verses and they merely added a melody on top of them, the whistle. That doesn't count as songwriting.
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well if that’s the case then that was an undeserving credit, no doubt.
 
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