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The relationship between Michael and Conrad Murray

AlvaMJJ

AlvaMJJ

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All the time I keep wondering how Michael could put his life into the hands of Conrad Murray instead of the hands of God - put much more trust into this dubious doctor than in the help of his own family, his children or true friends and even fans. I've always considered Michael as a smart, health-conscious and self-protective man. But the fact of his death causes us to believe something different. What are the reasons for the very close, confidential and trustful relationship to his doctor? What do you think?

-Why didn't Michael reflect on his nurses (Charilyn Lee) warnings about propofol? And debended according to Lee on his doctors (Murrays) position, that propofol is "safe medicine".
Isn't it peculiar to ignore life-threating warnings? Is this a behaviour of a brainwashed man/ an (over weeks or months made) addict to something (possibly the Ephendra and its adverse effects MJ was obviously suffering from)- not being aware of the consequences for his own life, the life of his children, relatives,friends & fans?
[Ephendra: A key to introduce Michael to propofol? And showing him, that it's safe medicine?]

-Is Michael's carefree and naive behaviour a result of Murrays overwhelming influence on him, a result of the stress because of the forthcoming concerts or a result of MJ's strong will persuading people to get whatever he wants - a dangerous/delicate/ illegal to administer drug like propofol? Is this the Michael we got to know over the years?

-Did Murray creep into Michael's life with the intention to kill him one day? (I think a lot of people entered in Michael's life for a personal reason. Even Grace R. had her reasons to become a part of Michael's life - as you could see in her old high school/senior book).
 
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i guess we will never find out that...but i've always thought he trusts people too much and has a problem in distinguish the one who really cared about him and not his money...and i will never believe he was taking all this medical shit consiously, he must have been aware of a danger and wouldn't risk his life wich was ment to be a part of his children life for a much, much longer:( but when you're in pain you're not much aware of what's going on around you, you just want it to stop:(
 
My sister on the other hand thinks, the so called doctor was framed.
 
'They' found this doctor who would do anything for money like 'they' found Arvizo family who would lie for money. In both cases 'they' got their jobs done.
 
AlvaMJJ said:
All the time I keep wondering how Michael could put his life into the hands of Conrad Murray instead of the hands of God - put much more trust into this dubious doctor than in the help of his own family, his children or true friends and even fans. I've always considered Michael as a smart, health-conscious and self-protective man. But the fact of his death causes us to believe something different. What are the reasons for the very close, confidential and trustful relationship to his doctor? What do you think?

-Why didn't Michael reflect on his nurses (Charilyn Lee) warnings about propofol? And debended according to Lee on his doctors (Murrays) position, that propofol is "safe medicine".
Isn't it peculiar to ignore life-threating warnings? Is this a behaviour of a brainwashed man/ an (over weeks or months made) addict to something (possibly the Ephendra and its adverse effects MJ was obviously suffering from)- not being aware of the consequences for his own life, the life of his children, relatives,friends & fans?
[Ephendra: A key to introduce Michael to propofol? And showing him, that it's safe medicine?]

-Is Michael's carefree and naive behaviour a result of Murrays overwhelming influence on him, a result of the stress because of the forthcoming concerts or a result of MJ's strong will persuading people to get whatever he wants - a dangerous/delicate/ illegal to administer drug like propofol? Is this the Michael we got to know over the years?

-Did Murray creep into Michael's life with the intention to kill him one day? (I think a lot of people entered in Michael's life for a personal reason. Even Grace R. had her reasons to become a part of Michael's life - as you could see in her old high school/senior book).




[English is not my native language. When I'm not using a structured, grammatical correct language...please forgive me :). ]
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Well, god didn't give him anything but troubles in past 50 years if you ask me... Why should he do nothing and suffer?

Fans and family can give a strong emotional support, but when one suffers from so many and so severe mental ilnesses, he needs doctor. That's something that everyone should know. Research mental disorders. God is not the cure, a good doctor is. Speaking of good doctors, Murray obviously wasn't one of them. But calling MJ naive is pointless-how could he know that his doctor is not good?

I respect that you are religious, but MJJ's addicitions have nothing to do with it. I'm so sick of mental disorder stigmas! I know how does it feel to have the mental disorder...
 
I think Dr. Conrad Murray always was or came to be a paid assassin.
This my opinion.
 
MJJKingforever said:
Well, god didn't give him anything but troubles in past 50 years if you ask me... Why should he do nothing and suffer?

Fans and family can give a strong emotional support, but when one suffers from so many and so severe mental ilnesses, he needs doctor. That's something that everyone should know. Research mental disorders. God is not the cure, a good doctor is. Speaking of good doctors, Murray obviously wasn't one of them. But calling MJ naive is pointless-how could he know that his doctor is not good?

I respect that you are religious, but MJJ's addicitions have nothing to do with it. I'm so sick of mental disorder stigmas! I know how does it feel to have the mental disorder...
Click to expand...

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to offend you with my thread. But I've always considered Michael to be a strong believer in God. I think there's hardly any speech of Michael, he's not refering to God/Jesus.

I don't think that God can be held responsible for Michael's troubles in the past 50 years. It was probably his weakness to put trust into wrong people. (Everybody has its own will. I decide on people, who I trust in or avoid.) I guess Michael preferred to have more yes-sayers (= greedy people) around him, than people who told him the hurtful truth.

Nonetheless I agree with you on that point: "When one suffers from so many and so severe mental illnesses, he needs a 'good' doctor." But first you've got to put trust in your own healing abilities. And let a third person (for example: a family member) know about your mental disorder. You can't let one single doctor take full advantage of you. Reliable members of your family know you much better than a doctor ever will.
But still - there are so many ways out of a mental illness. (I'm not talking about an addiction.) You can find the strength within yourself, in your family, in God, in books etc.
Taking addictive medicine can make your mental illness much more worse than it was before.

I don't think that it's pointless to call MJ kind of "naive":
Wasn't it Michael who wanted to be the first man ever moonwalking on the moon?
It seems to me that Michael lost his own will taking so many sedatives at one time.
So sad for his kids.

I'm not into stigmas, either. I don't dicriminate against anyone, who suffers from any kind of mental disorder. I'm just saying, that there are alternative ways to handle it.
 
AlvaMJJ said:
-Did Murray creep into Michael's life with the intention to kill him one day? (I think a lot of people entered in Michael's life for a personal reason. Even Grace R. had her reasons to become a part of Michael's life - as you could see in her old high school/senior book).
Click to expand...

See, this is what I don't understand. What would Murray possibly have to gain from this? He was in financial trouble and I would think that $150,000 a month tending to Michael would be his dream come true. Why would he want to kill him or participate in it, unless there was the promise of higher pay?

I hate this.
 
mnj1985 said:
See, this is what I don't understand. What would Murray possibly have to gain from this? He was in financial trouble and I would think that $150,000 a month tending to Michael would be his dream come true. Why would he want to kill him or participate in it, unless there was the promise of higher pay?

I hate this.
Click to expand...

MAYBE Murray agreed to a dangerous deal with another person even before Michael/AEG has offered him to pay $150,000 a moth.
If Murray didn't want himself to be killed, he would have had to stick to a bargain.
His task was to creep into Michael's life, to win his trust and to kill him in the end.
Isn't Life in prison better than death? And a life after prison without financial worries much better?





Conrad Murray's long, troubled history
August 25, 3:41 AMPopulist ExaminerBruce Maiman
Now that Michael Jackson's death has been ruled a homicide by the LA County Coronor's office (or so the Associated Press has reported), his personal physician, Dr. Conrad Murray is likely to be charged with murder, probably manslaughter.
It seems convenient, yet incomplete. Dr. Murray, no saint in this matter, is but the last person in a long train of people to whom we could point who are somehow culpable in Michael Jackson's death. Murray, is a sad figure who's life reads like a hard-luck Charlie story. He has a long and troubled history:

--In November 1985, a girlfriend had Murray arrested for fraudulent breach of trust, meaning she accused him of stealing or misusing money or property entrusted to him. The doc, who was a med student in Nashville at the time, posted a $2,000 bond the next day and the case was dismissed that January.
--In June 1992, Murray filed for bankruptcy in the state of California. According to public records, his debt was discharged by the court.
--In February 1993, the state of California placed a lien on Murray for failing to pay $1,578 in state taxes.
--In February 1994, Murray was charged with domestic violence in the state of Arizona (between 1992 and 1995 he took on a cardiology fellowship at the University of Arizona at Tucson). He stood trial in July of that year and was ultimately acquitted of the charge.
--He owes $940 in fines and penalties for driving with an expired license plate and no proof of insurance in 2000.
--In May 2001, the state of California placed a second lien on Murray for failing to pay $19,457 in state taxes. It was released in December 2003.
--In April 2003, the state placed yet another lien on Murray for failing to pay $21,084 in state taxes.
--Also in 2003, Murray was one of several defendants named in a civil lawsuit brought by Canada Life Assurance Co. The suit was eventually settled and dismissed.
--Murray's Nevada medical practice was nailed for more than $400,000 in three different court judgments in 2007 and 2008 and still has two cases pending against him.
--Last December, he was hit with a nearly $3,700 judgment for failure to pay child support in a San Diego case, and had his wages garnished for almost $1,500 in a court judgment won by a credit card company. Another credit card claim for more than $1,100 filed in April of 2009 is pending.
--He owes some $15,000 on his mortgage, which he hasn't paid since December and he could lose the home by November.
--"He still owes more than $13,000 in child support and $70,000 to a business partner with whom he launched an energy drink called Pitbull."
http://www.examiner.com/x-15870-Populist-Examiner~y2009m8d25-Conrad-Murrays-long-troubled-history
 
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Dr. Conrad Murray
Personal Physician to Michael Jackson
http://www.conradmurray.org/about/

How Could Conrad Murray Meet Jackson in 2006?
By: Roger Friedman // Sunday July 5, 2009

We continue to read stories about Michael Jackson’s live-in doctor, Conrad Murray.

Murray’s attorney and others around him insist that the doctor met Jackson in Las Vegas in 2006. They say one of Jackson’s children was ill, and that the doctor was called. Out of the blue.

But the timeline is wrong: Jackson was not in the United States in 2006. He left Los Angeles for Bahrain in June 2005. He didn’t return until December 23, 2006. On that day Jackson brought his family to Las Vegas from Ireland, where he’d been after a stay in France following more than a year in Bahrain.

Could Murray have met Jackson during the last week of 2006? Even that’s doubtful. After checking out his new home and celebrating Christmas, Jackson went to Augusta, Georgia, on December 30th for James Brown’s funeral.

What’s more, sources from Jackson’s camp at that time say none of the children were ill. “And if they were, why would he call a cardiologist?” asks one insider. “A pediatrician, yes.”

So the mystery remains about Dr. Murray: who introduced him to Jackson? And why?
http://showbiz411.bl...on-meet-doctor/
 
AlvaMJJ said:
-Why didn't Michael reflect on his nurses (Charilyn Lee) warnings about propofol? And debended according to Lee on his doctors (Murrays) position, that propofol is "safe medicine".
Isn't it peculiar to ignore life-threating warnings? Is this a behaviour of a brainwashed man/ an (over weeks or months made) addict to something (possibly the Ephendra and its adverse effects MJ was obviously suffering from)- not being aware of the consequences for his own life, the life of his children, relatives,friends & fans?
[Ephendra: A key to introduce Michael to propofol? And showing him, that it's safe medicine?]

-Is Michael's carefree and naive behaviour a result of Murrays overwhelming influence on him, a result of the stress because of the forthcoming concerts or a result of MJ's strong will persuading people to get whatever he wants - a dangerous/delicate/ illegal to administer drug like propofol? Is this the Michael we got to know over the years?
Click to expand...

"The Harrods owner also paid tribute to the "amazing performer" but said he had been concerned about Jackson the last time they met.
"I knew him very well," he said. "The last I saw him I was really worried about him but he didn't listen to anybody."

LINK: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/m...amed-Fayed.html[/url]
 
Michael's attitude to his own health does puzzle me. He appeared to know very well the power of the mind/spiritual beliefs in self-healing, as shown by his healing tape (that he made for the Japanese Sony President) and other such acts of kindness. He knew that the body has the ability to heal itself (to some extent) and that the power of the mind shouldn't be underestimated. Yet he still chose to trust certain doctors - some of whom didn't have his best interests at heart.

I just can't work it out.
 
I don't think that God can be held responsible for Michael's troubles in the past 50 years. It was probably his weakness to put trust into wrong people. (Everybody has its own will. I decide on people, who I trust in or avoid.) I guess Michael preferred to have more yes-sayers (= greedy people) around him, than people who told him the hurtful truth.
Click to expand...

This is what I don't get. When things go right in peoples lives, they thank God for it. But when things go wrong it's not Gods fault? Now personally I'm not all that religious so I'm neutral rather than blaming, but I don't understand the logic.

I do agree with Michael putting too much trust in the wrong people, which is a mistake everyone makes at times. I think that Conrad Murray could have intended to murder Michael, or it could have been an accident. Everything I've read seems to imply that he'd covering something up, which you would do in both situations.

Has there been anymore news on what's going to happen to Conrad? I don't know if I'm completely blind but I've not seen anything for a while.
 
AmberR said:
Dr. Conrad Murray
Personal Physician to Michael Jackson
http://www.conradmurray.org/about/

How Could Conrad Murray Meet Jackson in 2006?
By: Roger Friedman // Sunday July 5, 2009

We continue to read stories about Michael Jackson’s live-in doctor, Conrad Murray.

Murray’s attorney and others around him insist that the doctor met Jackson in Las Vegas in 2006. They say one of Jackson’s children was ill, and that the doctor was called. Out of the blue.

But the timeline is wrong: Jackson was not in the United States in 2006. He left Los Angeles for Bahrain in June 2005. He didn’t return until December 23, 2006. On that day Jackson brought his family to Las Vegas from Ireland, where he’d been after a stay in France following more than a year in Bahrain.

Could Murray have met Jackson during the last week of 2006? Even that’s doubtful. After checking out his new home and celebrating Christmas, Jackson went to Augusta, Georgia, on December 30th for James Brown’s funeral.

What’s more, sources from Jackson’s camp at that time say none of the children were ill. “And if they were, why would he call a cardiologist?” asks one insider. “A pediatrician, yes.”

So the mystery remains about Dr. Murray: who introduced him to Jackson? And why?
http://showbiz411.bl...on-meet-doctor/
Click to expand...
The police affidavits in support of the search warrants list 1/11/06 as the date of Murray's first medical records on Michael. Scouring the MJJF archives, news reports from January 2006 place Michael in Bahrain or Europe. The only things I found possibly to the contrary was a rumor said to be from German fans that Michael flew to the US on 1/5/06, and a RF report that a Los Angeles judge had ordered a court appearance on 1/9/06. The court date was only over paying some of Marc Schaffel's bills incurred in the lawsuit, nothing that the lawyers couldn't have handled, and there are no news reports of Michael in the courtroom. There is a Gulf News report from 1/23/06 saying he attended a wedding in Bahrain 10 days earlier, or on 1/13/06. Seeing Murray on 1/11/06 but being back in Bahrain on 1/13/06, while possible, would be a heck of a case of jetlag. Curious.
 
AmberR said:
'They' found this doctor who would do anything for money like 'they' found Arvizo family who would lie for money. In both cases 'they' got their jobs done.
Click to expand...

I've got no idea about the doctor but if "they" used the moronic Arvizo family to try to set him up it was probably the worst setup attempt in history. All they would have had to do is have the kid plant some questionable pictures of himself in MJ's room and he would probably have been toast.

I think the family was in that one by themselves...
 
^^^the child molestation accusation wasn't an intention to send Michael to jail. well of course, if that was the verdict of that trial, 'they' would've been happy like two birds in one stone. 'they' wanted to destroy Michael's career and life. They succeeded with the support of the media. For 'them' sending Michael to jail was secondary....well it's just my guess. Aphrodite Jones book - Michael Jackson Conspiracy tells the truth about this trial. I've bought that book, haven't read it though.
 
JustaFan2009 said:
I've got no idea about the doctor but if "they" used the moronic Arvizo family to try to set him up it was probably the worst setup attempt in history. All they would have had to do is have the kid plant some questionable pictures of himself in MJ's room and he would probably have been toast.

I think the family was in that one by themselves...
Click to expand...


Quote Fox News:
"And get this: Jackson’s makeup artist and stylist for 25 years, Karen Faye, is also part of this group. She has been replaced by Carol Lamere, the very same woman who introduced Jackson to the Arvizo family several years ago. It was the Arvizos who were used by the Santa Barbara District Attorney to bring Jackson’s 2003 arrest and subsequent 2005 trial.

“She can be controlled by Grace,” says a source, “where Karen couldn’t.”

Nonetheless, it’s hard to imagine that Jackson has absolved Lamere for the Arvizo incident. Yet there she is."

Michael Jackson Ends Year Homeless and in Isolation
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,239859,00.html
 
There's also a question wether Michael even suggested or hired the doctor for himself in the first place?

Why would he even need a personal doctor if he was so healthy? Was he the really the one to ask for Dr. Murray?

We don't know. So many questions, but that is why the investigation is still ongoing.
 
a healthy kidney, liver and strong heart confirms that mj was not the addict "some" here want us to believe .

the simple fact that MJ called Lee the NURSE instead of all the doctors who were floating around him , confirms he was not aware of the seriousness of this drug and realised that what Nurse Lee told him was more trustful than those other doctors .

the fact that he called lee when he felt there was something wrong instead of murray who was beside him and instead of klien who he used to meet three times a week , says MJ did not ignore Lee's warnings because he did not want to listen to her , but because he was told propofol was safe by people who were doctors not nurses and since he did not suffer any complications before , he believed the doctors over the nurce ,until what she told him happened , so he run to her . this is not some one who was aware , or was warned by his doctors, this is someone who was convinced it was safe and those who benefited were telling him it was ok .
 
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Facts are that Michael was under a lot of pressure... That along with extreme training sessions for the concerts might have been one cause for his sleeping troubles....
Have you ever had problems to fall asleep when you are expected to perform next day? You lie in bed at night and the hours are ticking by and still you can't find rest.... It leads to frustration and despair.
And desperate people do desperate things... like hiring doctors who will provide them with the means to find sleep no matter what...
I find it not so hard to believe that he would hire Murray for that reason despite his believe in a healthy life-style.
After all Michael could be a rather contradictive person. And we don't know when those sleeping problems started... maybe he expected them to come up in London and therefore insisted on taking the doctor...
 
Alenyx said:
Facts are that Michael was under a lot of pressure... That along with extreme training sessions for the concerts might have been one cause for his sleeping troubles....
Have you ever had problems to fall asleep when you are expected to perform next day? You lie in bed at night and the hours are ticking by and still you can't find rest.... It leads to frustration and despair.
And desperate people do desperate things... like hiring doctors who will provide them with the means to find sleep no matter what...
I find it not so hard to believe that he would hire Murray for that reason despite his believe in a healthy life-style.
After all Michael could be a rather contradictive person. And we don't know when those sleeping problems started... maybe he expected them to come up in London and therefore insisted on taking the doctor...
Click to expand...


Actually, it has been confirm by several of Michael's friends and family that he has suffer from insomnia his entire life. What was happening before he died was actually a common thing for him. Michael himself said he had trouble sleeping because he was always thinking about new music or beats. I think no one in his circle knew how bad it actually was.

Also, given the complication of Michael's life and mental health, there was many things that could had caused his insomnia, not just stress. However, I do think Michael to an extent knew the dangers he was putting himself in. I just think that he reached a point that he didn't really care anymore. When you are desperate, we tend to dismiss our best judgments.
 
I think there were many different Michael's.....I dont think ANYONE really knew him 100%....

There are so many contradictions and confusions in this situation and some things that I dont even want to think about believing....
 
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