Verdict Reached: AEG NOT Liable - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

[jaydom7]

Re: Verdict Watch - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

If this insomnia was going on since he was a child when he started performing, he should have been seen a specialist. I am sure he never saw one. I am also sure his Mother never took him to one when he was a minor child, since she closes her eyes and ears to problems her children may have.:bugeyed

 

[passy001]

Re: Verdict Watch - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

Did I say all of that? Insomnia requires specialist skills if other treatments don't work.

My point was to show that a GP is not qualified to treat chronic and acute health disorders.

 

[#MJforever57]

Re: Verdict Watch - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

I was wonder that too will there be a verdict?

Maybe not.

I don't know what the jury can get out of TII either.

 

[smoothlugar]

Re: Verdict Watch - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

In my opinion, the FACT that he was Michael's doctor for 3-years before AEG came on the scene is where the fitness or non-fitness comes in.

Murray was Michael personal doctor for 3-years, and everything appeared to be in check, so why would anybody think that Murray was unfit? Murray also apparently treated Michael's children and all went well.

Yes, I don't question that. Murray had been called 7 times and everything had been well. But throughout the contract negotiation process, things started changing, and in that meeting his behaviour, let's say, was not too professional and not too caring. For me, that's another little sign of incompetence. IMO.

 

[#MJforever57]

Re: Verdict Watch - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

May not get a verdict until Oct.

I might have to go and look at TII again to see what Putnam want the jury to see.

 

[passy001]

Re: Verdict Watch - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

Did I say all of that? Insomnia requires specialist skills if other treatments don't work.

ETA Murray wasn't hired to treat Michaels insomnia as such, just general medical needs. So general insomnia if needed and he should have sought specialist help for anything that doesn't fall into that category. Murray far outstretched what a GP would do - which is what he was hired for.

so, what you are saying is that Murray was performing a completely different job from which he was hired. He was hired to provide general medical care yet he was treating MJ for chronic and acute insomnia. the job descriptions don't match. and that's something I believe the jury should look into. but whether they will do so, I have no idea.

 

[#MJforever57]

Re: Verdict Watch - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

Yes, I don't question that. Murray had been called 7 times and everything had been well. But throughout the contract negotiation process, things started changing, and in that meeting his behaviour, let's say, was not too professional and not too caring. For me, that's another little sign of incompetence. IMO.

I agree with you on this yeah he was getting tick off.

 

[#MJforever57]

Re: Verdict Watch - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

Maybe this jury will watch TII before their started to answer the questions.

 

[LastTear]

Re: Verdict Watch - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

My point was to show that a GP is not qualified to treat chronic and acute health disorders.

And I do agree, but did AEG know Michael had chronic medical needs?

so, what you are saying is that Murray was performing a completely different job from which he was hired. He was hired to provide general medical care yet he was treating MJ for chronic and acute insomnia. the job descriptions don't match. and that's something I believe the jury should look into. but whether they will do so, I have no idea.

Thats how I see it, this is why I'm stuck on question 2.

 

[Bonnie Blue]

Re: Verdict Watch - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

This "THEY" that you speak of, does that include Michael, or was he not part of the "THEY" and the "THEY" to which you speak of just made decisions for Michael and he had no input. Is that what you are saying?

No, my argument is that mj had this conflict of interest too - all 3 parties had it. Mj's health v tii tour going ahead. Mj was well aware of the physical demands that touring caused him - the insomnia, the weight loss, the extraordinary demands on his 50yr old body. He only v reluctantly agreed to do the tii tour because of imminent financial collapse - barrack says this, randy phillips. He wanted to be able to buy a home for his chldren. With all the tix sold, $35m already spend on production, mj was locked in by june. That is why he was petrified acc to ortega that tii might be taken away from him - he faced bankruptcy,ridicule of the media, backlash from fans, irreparable damage to any future career. Phillips knew all this, he said on the 20th to mj's biz manager that he was going to tell mj the financial consequences of not doing tii, he himself said in an interview pre mj's death that with tii, it was 'do or die' for mj. No wonder mj said he was fine, it's not much of a choice, imo.

Then how come prior to meeting AEG he had no issues providing general medical care to MJ and his children for 3 years?

Doing house calls to someone who is not doing a strenuous job, is different to being brought on board to be the sole doctor to an artist preparing for a massively physical series of live performances. Murray didn't seem equipped.

Besides, what is general medical care? Does that include the treatment of insomnia? if not, then he was fit and competent for the job.

General medical care includes insomnia, it's an incredibly common complaint, murray treated mj for it a couple of times when he was his gp in vegas. I would say putting someone in a drug induced coma as a way of dealing with insomnia would be an example of unfitness and incompetence in general medical care.

why what? in my opinion the jurors cannot say "murray is negligent because he killed Michael" as it is hindsight. that's what my post was about.

You said in your post, they should look at 1 may to make their determination of fitness of murray. That's more than just saying they can't take into account 25 june.

 

[passy001]

Re: Verdict Watch - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

And I do agree, but did AEG know Michael had chronic medical needs?

They did not. That's why his contract states "general medical care".

Thats how I see it, this is why I'm stuck on question 2.

It's simple. Was Murray qualified for the job description as stated in his contract?

The answer is yes. He was overqualified to provide basic health care as per the contract since he's a trained cardiologist.

 

[Petrarose]

Re: Verdict Watch - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

You know what I find sad? Fans labelling other fans as "AEG-supporters", "Estate-sponsored degenerates", "trolls", "defamers of the [holy] Jackson family [dynasty]", "illegitimate fans", "beLIEvers" etc. [I can't think of an insult for the other side because I haven't seen one.]

And when doing this these fans feel they would be doing this all for Michael. A weird logic.
If you know Michael that well, you'll remember this:

PREJUDICE IS IGNORANCE
Do NOT judge other fans without knowing them.
Do NOT practice compartmentalization.
That trial is just another thing (of many) that people should agree upon to differ. You cannot proclaim your individual opinion as objectively correct and go storm-shitting on everyone who disagrees.

I guess fans never come to piece about anything. Sad...
Everyone has its own opinion and everyone can come to a conclusion using one's own mind. Defaming fans for their opinion is utterly WRONG.
And no, I don't feel the need to add some childish random hashtag to tag my opinion.

I needed to say that.

Thank you for that!!

I will be celebrating if AEG wins. I have no shame about it either. I accept that some will not celebrate; some are not taking sides; some want the family to win; some do not care.

This case is only about negligent hiring, so if the jury says AEG hired muarry, Michael also hired him first, when Muarry decided to move to California, when Michael introduced him as his doc, when he began practicing, when he accepted money from Michael for services rendered. If anyone has negative remarks about AEG because they hired Murray, then negative remarks can be directed to Michael too, because he hired Muarry first, to give him prof. He wrote Muarry to practice on a note, so he knew why he hired Muarry. I don't see any difference in Michael & AEG in their role of hiring Muarry. They both deserve the same negative emotions/words directed at them.

I don't see how I can single out AEG for attack, and leave Michael as this innocent baby who AEG forced to do a tour, & got an incompetent doc to drug him. From the time Michael gave AEG Muarry's name, Michael already knew how Muarry was, & as a partner he did not investigate Muarry either, so why blame only AEG. When Michael was shaking & disoriented, and losing weight, he already knew the source was the person he hired, so why only blame AEG. Even if Michel did not know how to solve the symptoms, since he called Lee, he knew who and what was causing it. When Michael said he was fine, he, being himself and in his body, knew if he was fine or ill, so why only blame AEG. So I support AEG since both Michael and AEG did the same thing: hired/was going to hire Muarry. To me, solely in terms of hiring, they deserve the same accountability because they were partners.

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: Verdict Watch - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

No wonder mj said he was fine, it's not much of a choice, imo.

Of course he had a choice. He lived in America, not some Third World Country with NO rights.

Although he said he was fine, he could have ALSO said "I can't sleep, I need help, I need the PROPER help with my lack of sleep issues."

Let me ask you a question, without propofol in the mix, do you think with the PROPER sleep therapy, Michael would have been fine (for real) and able to pull off the O2 shows?.

 

[passy001]

Re: Verdict Watch - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

General medical care includes insomnia, it's an incredibly common complaint, murray treated mj for it a couple of times when he was his gp in vegas. I would say putting someone in a drug induced coma as a way of dealing with insomnia would be an example of unfitness and incompetence in general medical care.

MJ was suffering was an acute insomnia, which is a disorder not classified as basic health disorder. Please check with your GP. it requires a doctor with specialized/advanced skills to deal with the issue.

Murray was overqualified to provide basic health care since he was a trained cardiologist.

 

[Annita]

Re: Verdict Watch - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

It`s at 0.50 where Putnam said he encourages the jury to watch the TII-Film and he shows reharsals from June 23th and 24th and says what clothes Michael wore on this days.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGBo0VjI9RY#t=3434

 

[LastTear]

Re: Verdict Watch - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

They did not. That's why his contract states "general medical care".



It's simple. Was Murray qualified for the job description as stated in his contract?

The answer is yes. He was overqualified to provide basic health care as per the contract since he's a trained cardiologist.

So we are on the same page.

Was Murray unfit or incompetent to perform the work for which he was hired?

Yes / No


If you answered Yes then answer question 3. If you answered No stop here answer no further questions.

So your answer, and mine, would be NO to this question.

 

[ivy]

Re: Verdict Watch - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

How likely is it we will get a verdict today?

only if they are strongly leaning towards one side and / or they would like this trial to be over with today and they don't want to come back next week.

 

[Petrarose]

Re: Verdict Watch - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

I am so glad the jury is asking for TII and the contract. Putnam told them to look at TII to see how Michael appeared just before he died--I think he said 12 hours before he died (red shirt footage). He also connected the video to plaintiffs' points about how Michael couldn't do certain things or was losing weight, so he wanted them to look at TII. He also told the jury to look at the whole contract, so it is good to see the jury is really looking at the hard evidence.

I feel because they wanted to see the contract first they were at the hiring part, trying to understand what the contract outlined.

Maybe this will end by next Friday?

 

[StellaJackson]

Re: Verdict Watch - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

I am so glad the jury is asking for TII and the contract. Putnam told them to look at TII to see how Michael appeared just before he died--I think he said 12 hours before he died (red shirt footage). He also connected the video to plaintiffs' points about how Michael couldn't do certain things or was losing weight, so he wanted them to look at TII. He also told the jury to look at the whole contract, so it is good to see the jury is really looking at the hard evidence.

I feel because they wanted to see the contract first they were at the hiring part, trying to understand what the contract outlined.

Maybe this will end by next Friday?

Red shirt was 23rd.

 

[xosweetseducingsighsxo]

Re: Verdict Watch - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

Red shirt was 23rd.

I think the red shirt footage Petra's speaking of is when he was singing 'They Don't Really Care About Us'. That was the 24th.

 

[ivy]

Re: Verdict Watch - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

Red shirt was 23rd.

Putnam said it was the 23rd, I believe . he said he made about 5 jacket changes but the red shirt was the same. 23rd is what he asked the jurors to watch.

 

[Petrarose]

Re: Verdict Watch - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

Which is the one where he said 12 hours later he died?

The jury should be back from lunch now, right?

 

[StellaJackson]

Re: Verdict Watch - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

I think the red shirt footage Petra's speaking of is when he was singing 'They Don't Really Care About Us'. That was the 24th.

No it was the 23rd. It wasn't rehearsed on the 24th. I though Petra meant the 24th because she said 12 hours.

Also, the song is called "They Don't Care About Us". There is no "really" in the title. Sorry but that's one of my pet peeves.

 

[Petrarose]

Re: Verdict Watch - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

No it was the 23rd. It wasn't rehearsed on the 24th. I though Petra meant the 24th because she said 12 hours.

Also, the song is called "They Don't Care About Us". There is no "really" in the title. Sorry but that's one of my pet peeves.

Funny about the pet peeve, but which one was 12 hours before? I may have to look at the closing again.

 

[ivy]

Re: Verdict Watch - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

Which is the one where he said 12 hours later he died?

The jury should be back from lunch now, right?

It was Earth Song

 

[Annita]

Re: Verdict Watch - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

Here is Putmans closing. He refers on it at 0.55

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGBo0VjI9RY#t=3434

 

[Petrarose]

Re: Verdict Watch - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

^^Thanks so Earth Song was 12 hours before and the red shirt was the 23rd.

Is the jury making a timeline in a table or something like that? They ask for rulers.

 

[Victory22]

Re: Verdict Watch - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

This trial denigrated both the image of Michael I do not even know what to say which the result I hope of this shit. *big sigh*

I agree with you and I don't think we learned anything new we needed to know about his death. All we got was a lot of dirt thrown on his memory so whoever wins MJ and his kids lost.

 

[mdiegee210]

Re: Verdict Watch - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

I just hope the jurors are smart enough to know that AEG would EDIT out the parts when Michael was sick. And only show footage of his best rehearsals.

 

[elapentela]

Re: Verdict Watch - Discussion- Katherine Jackson vs AEG

I just hope the jurors are smart enough to know that AEG would EDIT out the parts when Michael was sick. And only show footage of his best rehearsals.

In 100 hours of rehearsal footage there is nothing what would suggest Michael was sick. I don't think MJ would allow camera rolling when he was really sick.