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Was In The Back originally supposed to be on Blood On The Dance Floor

somebody told @kai, that a finished version got played in one of the seminars this year.

would love to know more about it... maybe this version was for invincible?
 
mj_frenzy said:
He did spend time working on it and he kept reviewing material presented to him for inclusion.

Matt Forger, for example, stated that the singer reviewed material that had been assembled and he gave final approval to that project.
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That is literally the definition of little to no involvement. He took a glance at the track list and approved it. He wasn't involved in anything else creatively.
mj_frenzy said:
The glossy packaging shows that he also cared about how this box set would look.
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Who says he worked on the design and packaging of the box set?
mj_frenzy said:
Also, it was never in his nature to just throw some random material into his official releases.
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You are the one who believes that Michael potentially, purposefully, tried to sabotage Invincible by including sub-par material on it. In 2004, a box set was not Michael Jackson's priority in life. He was in the midst of a trial.
mj_frenzy said:
He was also emotionally very connected to this box set until his death (even in his very final days he had it in his hands).
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This is what Michael's room looked like when he died:
TCBdtCK.jpg


You really think that box set was so close to his heart that he kept it? Or was it simply one of hundreds of random items he had in his home?
 
dethorro said:
That is literally the definition of little to no involvement. He took a glance at the track list and approved it. He wasn't involved in anything else creatively.

Who says he worked on the design and packaging of the box set?

You are the one who believes that Michael potentially, purposefully, tried to sabotage Invincible by including sub-par material on it. In 2004, a box set was not Michael Jackson's priority in life. He was in the midst of a trial.

This is what Michael's room looked like when he died:
TCBdtCK.jpg


You really think that box set was so close to his heart that he kept it? Or was it simply one of hundreds of random items he had in his home?
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Wasn't Thriller 25 on the table beside his bed or something during the last days? I totally forgot where I read about this, or where exactly it was found. Maybe this is what mj_frenzy is pointing to
 
dethorro said:
You really think that box set was so close to his heart that he kept it? Or was it simply one of hundreds of random items he had in his home?
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dam2040 said:
Emotionally connected to the box set. LOL
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Pentum said:
Wasn't Thriller 25 on the table beside his bed or something during the last days? I totally forgot where I read about this, or where exactly it was found. Maybe this is what mj_frenzy is pointing to
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Here is the photo with 'The Ultimate Collection' box set:

michael-jackson-evidence-photos-inside-death-house-drugs-propofol-023-480w-1.jpg
 
Let's stop that argument and focus on something else.

What other outtakes were there from the HIStory and BOTDF sessions? Trying to keep this from being a one-note thread, so I thought a slight change was in order.
 
SeriousFX said:
Let's stop that argument and focus on something else.

What other outtakes were there from the HIStory and BOTDF sessions? Trying to keep this from being a one-note thread, so I thought a slight change was in order.
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Regarding the 'HIStory' album sessions, here are some of them:

'Faces' is one of these outtakes (Brad Sundberg played it in one of his seminars).

'The Best Thing' is another outtake, along with the 'Fear' outtake.

One can say that Michael Jackson's solo version of 'Why' can be regarded as another outtake.

There is also the 'Willing And Waiting' outtake, a song which was produced by Babyface but it did not make the 'HIStory' album due to being too soft melodically.
 
SmoothGangsta said:
Solo Why doesn't exist.
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This is just another myth perpetuated by some of his fans.

"At first, it was one of our uncle's songs for the 'HIStory' album. He made the mistake to let us listen to it before the release of the album and we fell in love with this track … So we could have the song, but under one condition: we should keep his voice on it. So we kept the chorus as it was, sang by Michael, and we re-sang the verses … You should hear Michael's version of 'Why', that would be cool" (TJ Jackson)

So, the solo version exists.
 
SmoothGangsta said:
Solo Why doesn't exist.
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According to TJ Jackson in an interview posted this past spring, it does:

Yes, there is a version of “Why” with my uncle. First of all, he played two songs. […] So he played “You Are Not Alone” and “Why”. He said he could only keep one, and he wanted to give the other to us. He asked us if there was one we liked more, or one we thought he should do or we should do. We loved them both! He said Sony thought he should keep “You Are Not Alone” and he asked us: “Do you want ‘Why’?” We said: “Yes, we’d love to have ‘Why’!” […] The reason why I know there is another version is because, in the bridge, when Taryll is singing the words, we had no idea what the words were, so we had to listen over and over to how my uncle sang it, and try to figure out what the words were. We still couldn’t figure it out so he just tried to sing it just like him and hope that the words would just come across. But some of those words, Taryll didn’t even know what they were so he was just trying to sound exactly like my uncle since we didn’t have the lyrics. If this was now, I’d have it on my computer but in the 90s, there was none of that. It’s probably on some tape or CD somewhere in storage, but there definitely exists a version. I know for a fact there is at least the bridge and I’m pretty certain there is a whole version. Because when he firstplayed, we wouldn’t have known what the song was without the vocals…

I find it hard to believe that TJ would mistake his own uncle’s vocals with someone else’s, but this goes against everything we’ve been told over the years. Who knows?
 
AlwaysThere said:
According to TJ Jackson in an interview posted this past spring, it does:

Yes, there is a version of “Why” with my uncle. First of all, he played two songs. […] So he played “You Are Not Alone” and “Why”. He said he could only keep one, and he wanted to give the other to us. He asked us if there was one we liked more, or one we thought he should do or we should do. We loved them both! He said Sony thought he should keep “You Are Not Alone” and he asked us: “Do you want ‘Why’?” We said: “Yes, we’d love to have ‘Why’!” […] The reason why I know there is another version is because, in the bridge, when Taryll is singing the words, we had no idea what the words were, so we had to listen over and over to how my uncle sang it, and try to figure out what the words were. We still couldn’t figure it out so he just tried to sing it just like him and hope that the words would just come across. But some of those words, Taryll didn’t even know what they were so he was just trying to sound exactly like my uncle since we didn’t have the lyrics. If this was now, I’d have it on my computer but in the 90s, there was none of that. It’s probably on some tape or CD somewhere in storage, but there definitely exists a version. I know for a fact there is at least the bridge and I’m pretty certain there is a whole version. Because when he firstplayed, we wouldn’t have known what the song was without the vocals…

I find it hard to believe that TJ would mistake his own uncle’s vocals with someone else’s, but this goes against everything we’ve been told over the years. Who knows?
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This is odd considering his brother Tarylls narrative on the MJCast:
(between 25:40 - 29:40). He claims he has never heard a version with Mike on lead vocals and he also states that Mike produced him on the bridge part, guiding him through it.
mj_frenzy said:
It does not turn out that Michael Jackson had little to no involvement with that box set.

This is just some fans' speculation that you keep perpetuating.

He did spend time working on it and he kept reviewing material presented to him for inclusion.

Matt Forger, for example, stated that the singer reviewed material that had been assembled and he gave final approval to that project.

The glossy packaging shows that he also cared about how this box set would look.

Also, it was never in his nature to just throw some random material into his official releases.

He was also emotionally very connected to this box set until his death (even in his very final days he had it in his hands).
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Mike literally stated on stage that he didn't care about the box set at the MJNI's Killer Thriller Party:
(check between 5:48 - 6:23). He literally says he's just gonna hand Sony old songs, he didn't even really care which ones.
 
AlwaysThere said:
According to TJ Jackson in an interview posted this past spring, it does:

Yes, there is a version of “Why” with my uncle. First of all, he played two songs. […] So he played “You Are Not Alone” and “Why”. He said he could only keep one, and he wanted to give the other to us. He asked us if there was one we liked more, or one we thought he should do or we should do. We loved them both! He said Sony thought he should keep “You Are Not Alone” and he asked us: “Do you want ‘Why’?” We said: “Yes, we’d love to have ‘Why’!” […] The reason why I know there is another version is because, in the bridge, when Taryll is singing the words, we had no idea what the words were, so we had to listen over and over to how my uncle sang it, and try to figure out what the words were. We still couldn’t figure it out so he just tried to sing it just like him and hope that the words would just come across. But some of those words, Taryll didn’t even know what they were so he was just trying to sound exactly like my uncle since we didn’t have the lyrics. If this was now, I’d have it on my computer but awein the 90s, there was none of that. It’s probably on some tape or CD somewhere in storage, but there definitely exists a version. I know for a fact there is at least the bridge and I’m pretty certain there is a whole version. Because when he firstplayed, we wouldn’t have known what the song was without the vocals…

I find it hard to believe that TJ would mistake his own uncle’s vocals with someone else’s, but this goes against everything we’ve been told over the years. Who knows?
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Yeah I recall there being differing accounts. It's possible they heard a demo with someone trying to sound like MJ or something. Who knows.
 
SmoothGangsta said:
^ Doesn't really change whether MJ was involved or not but I don't think he was talking about TUC there at all.
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If not, what box set in the early 2000s, as one of the final products with Sony was he referring too then? Genuine question, really. I've never heard of any other box set project, canceled or not that this could be. But hey, I've been wrong before..
 
Nighty said:
Mike literally stated on stage that he didn't care about the box set at the MJNI's Killer Thriller Party:
(check between 5:48 - 6:23). He literally says he's just gonna hand Sony old songs, he didn't even really care which ones.
Click to expand...
At the 'Killer Thriller' speech (2002), Michael Jackson was disgruntled (if not disgusted) with Sony Music and Tommy Mottola.

But that was a temporary situation, and those specific words that the singer uttered were because of his temporary tantrum towards them.

Despite what Michael Jackson said at the 'Killer Thriller' speech, he continued to work with Sony Music, and he continued to care about his career, considering that he released at least 6 compilation albums in 2003-2008 under Sony Music.

He was even executive producer in certain of these releases (including 'The Ultimate Collection' box set).

Watch, for example, his speech at the 45th Birthday Party, which took place in 2003 (the previous year before the release of 'The Ultimate Collection' box set).

Here, Michael Jackson was optimistic about his artistic future and career, and he was also very eager to release more material.

He also even stated that he was working on new music, new films (short films, feature films), and so on.
 
mj_frenzy said:
At the 'Killer Thriller' speech (2002), Michael Jackson was disgruntled (if not disgusted) with Sony Music and Tommy Mottola.

But that was a temporary situation, and those specific words that the singer uttered were because of his temporary tantrum towards them.

Despite what Michael Jackson said at the 'Killer Thriller' speech, he continued to work with Sony Music, and he continued to care about his career, considering that he released at least 6 compilation albums in 2003-2008 under Sony Music.

He was even executive producer in certain of these releases (including 'The Ultimate Collection' box set).

Watch, for example, his speech at the 45th Birthday Party, which took place in 2003 (the previous year before the release of 'The Ultimate Collection' box set).

Here, Michael Jackson was optimistic about his artistic future and career, and he was also very eager to release more material.

He also even stated that he was working on new music, new films (short films, feature films), and so on.
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This is interesting. Thanks for this one. I do have to point out thou that compilations are in most cases (not all of them) done by record labels to keep the interest of the artists going on in the zeitgeist. It's basically more revenue, cheaper to produce and to keep the iron hot while there is no new product to release and promote. Considering that most of Mike's compilations are just the same tracks on them but in new sequences and packaging (I have no idea how many things I have that includes Billie Jean by now). We know that Decade (that eventually never manifested) was an effort from Mike and so was HIStory, but other than those, it just looks like Sony was just doing their job regardless Mike's involvement or not. Cause I can definitely buy that he wanted to release new material, I'm just slightly unsure of him wanting to release old stuff repackaged for the tenth time.
 
Nighty said:
If not, what box set in the early 2000s, as one of the final products with Sony was he referring too then? Genuine question, really. I've never heard of any other box set project, canceled or not that this could be. But hey, I've been wrong before..
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Probably one of the compilation albums or something. I'm pretty sure TUC was a new thing between him and Sony and wasn't related to anything else.
 
SmoothGangsta said:
Probably one of the compilation albums or something. I'm pretty sure TUC was a new thing between him and Sony and wasn't related to anything else.
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Sure, that could be the case. But why then say "Box Set" when he easily could have said "compilation" or "best of"? I don't see why we should reinterpret something straight from the horses mouth. If you say "I drove there with a car", who am I to say "No, SmoothGangsta really meant train, boat or bicycle". I could easily then just adapt anything that anyone says to anything, no?
 
Nighty said:
Sure, that could be the case. But why then say "Box Set" when he easily could have said "compilation" or "best of"? I don't see why we should reinterpret something straight from the horses mouth. If you say "I drove there with a car", who am I to say "No, SmoothGangsta really meant train, boat or bicycle". I could easily then just adapt anything that anyone says to anything, no?
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Michael had a habit of saying stuff that wasn’t wholly accurate. He’s said on multiple occasions that he writes one hundred songs for each album, which has been proven false on multiple occasions. On top of that, it stands to reason that Number Ones could have been a box set in early configurations, before being paired down.

Not so much reinterpreting as acknowledging that Michael was prone to exaggeration, so perhaps there’s an alternate meaning.
 
AlwaysThere said:
Michael had a habit of saying stuff that wasn’t wholly accurate. He’s said on multiple occasions that he writes one hundred songs for each album, which has been proven false on multiple occasions.
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I agree, he had a tendency to exaggerate or be plainly wrong but that doesn't remove that he could be correct on this particular thing. If I tell you nine false claims, does that mean that the tenth claim I say is also going to be false? You would have no way of knowing that, you would have to make an assumption based on my previous false statements and land on the wrong conclusion that the tenth thing I'm saying is also false. It would just be logically fallacious thinking.
AlwaysThere said:
On top of that, it stands to reason that Number Ones could have been a box set in early configurations, before being paired down.
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That could be true, but we have no evidence to suggest that would be the case - or maybe you might know something that I don't, which is a possibility. But not until we have something to prove the point should we believe it, since it's just speculation.
AlwaysThere said:
Not so much reinterpreting as acknowledging that Michael was prone to exaggeration, so perhaps there’s an alternate meaning.
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And now we're back to my example of stating that I'm driving a car, yet for some reason it's not being listened to and instead being assumed that I didn't mean to say "car" but something else instead. That supposed "alternate meaning" can be anything then, really. You just need to fill it in with whatever works for you.
 
So, the song was first conceived in 1994 towards the end of History's development and work on it continued into 1997 during the album's tour; a demo was recorded in that year. It was considered for Blood on the Dance Floor, but ended up left out as it wasn't complete enough for inclusion. Another demo was supposedly recorded in 1999 during Invincible's development. The 1997 demo appears on 2004's Ultimate Collection.

Would love to hear the 1999 demo if it supposedly exists. Kind of hard to believe it does; if that was the most recent version of the song, then why wasn't it on The Ultimate Collection? I'm guessing the lyrics in that version of the song still aren't anywhere close to complete, either. Anyway, I think the song sounds cool, but nothing really special. It really does sound like a leftover track from the History sessions; it's got the same vibe as "This Time Around", "Money" and "Morphine" without having anything to really set it apart from those songs. The 1997 demo definitely sounds too dated for Invincible; too New jack swing-ish for a 2001 album. Maybe the 1999 demo sounded more modern, but I don't think MJ should have had a song about being stabbed in the back like this on the album. I got enough of that side of MJ on History; Invincible needed a different direction than that.
 
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