What do OTHERS think of Michael?

he's always been controversial. I got bullied in school because I am MJ fan. not because of the allegations, it was before that, but I never felt the need to hide that I'm an MJ fan, because of that. it's something I've always shown off with great pride, and I don't let anyone get to me or make me want to hide the fact that I love someone/something. especially when it comes to MJ, because I know that they are just tabloid junkies who don't know any better, and I know better (but was always ready to defend him if I felt the need to). I don't really understand the things you guys are saying, that you felt the need to hide that you're MJ fans. I've never in my life even thought like that

Of course, your mileage may vary and I'm glad that you've always been able to show off your fandom with great pride! I think it is important to note we have grown up in different times and that would play some part. You got bullied when you were in school for being an MJ fan, but this was before the allegations as you wrote. Michael was controversial in those times, but the allegations changed everything (and for the record, I'm not intending to downplay any bullying you received or say mine was worse).

By the time I was your age in school, perception on Michael had dramatically changed. He was more known for his controversies than his music. Most of our exposure to him were the long and highly publicised child molestation trials and it wasn't hard to find someone who believed he was guilty. Hell, one of my friends has said that his first exposure to Michael was dangling Blanket in 2002. What are your opinions going to be on someone if that's your first and main exposure to them? Not saying this was every person, but this would've been many. Kids are shitty and they tease each other about a lot of things to varying degrees so why give them ammo? If people know you're a fan of a child molester (or so they believe), there's a reasonable chance you will be made fun of for that. At that time, I had been made fun of for less controversial subjects after all so I was cautious, and since then I have been bullied in relation to MJ, a lot of it has been related to the molestation stuff.

You haven't had to worry about making your MJ fan status known and that's genuinely great, but it should be at least somewhat understandable why some people - especially young peeps - were more cautious of letting it be known. For many people, it's easier said than done to "not let it get to you", especially when you're a highly impressionable pre-teen/teenager.
 
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A really good thread and I have been reading all the replies so far and instantly I think, that is exactly what happened to me, all through the 1980s and even early 1990s, Michael Jackson was the coolest thing since sliced bread and could do no wrong, but starting with the Jordy Chandler allegations, it all went wrong and over night MJ became a pariah. People are so easily swayed by a jaundiced news media. Then after the trial and even after his death the main reaction I get if people can even remember about Michael Jackson, was him being a paedophile and a skin bleacher who hated being black. The fact MIchael Jackson was revealed to have vitiligo and was proven completely innocent in a trial by his peers, means nothing to these numbskulls.

When I first really got into Michael Jackson in 1983 with the Thriller album and singles setting the charts alight, Michael Jackson was the coolest person alive as he was an awesome dancer and a really nice guy. All the kids at school loved him, we all wanted to be like Michael and meet him. This continued through to the Bad era, as being kids (I was born in 1976) no one read tabloids about elephant mans bones or hyperbaric chambers and besides I was in NZ where you could not buy garbagey American and British tabloids. By 1990 he was still cool, but seen as a bit strange and Dangerous was still a huge seller. I don't even remember any particularly bad fall out from MJ cancelling his Bad tour appearance because of a venue issue and some lucky people went to the Bad shows in Australia.

1993 was the changer, when the Jordan Chandler allegations broke, Michael was overnight seen as wack, strange and a kiddie fiddler. It did not help that by 1993, Child abuse cases were all over the media with several NZ and Australian scandals breaking here and a hysteria that nearly every adult, particularly unmarried male was a sex offender. Despite our Music press seeing through the crap, most people thought he was guilty. I was 17 and at a conservative high school, already getting harassed over my race and perceived sexuality (I was gay, but totally closeted until I was 21). People gave me shit as I loved Michael and Prince and everyone thought I wanted to be their boy toy. Had many fights over MJ and things remained bad through to 1995 with History album. By now we had more tabloids and Hard Copy was on TV with its stalker like coverage of Michael, yet the albums and singles still sold, there were enough believers and fans. I had a lot of little cousins and they really liked Michael too, so loved it when I babysat, because if they were good and ate their vegetables I would put some Michael Jackson music on and let them have a moonwalk competition!

In my 20s, it was better no one beat me up, but still a lot of acquaintances would start the paedophile crap and when 2003/05 was around I worked with a girl who was a great mate, but was convinced Michael Jackson was guilty and everything else. This was sad as she was a huge Michael Jackson fan back in the day but went off him in 1993 with the Chandler allegations. Not guilty was a big vindication for me and all of you and of course Michael, whose face just said "Thank God it is all over"

In my 30s, it has been much better, things really improved with Thriller 25 coming out and me organising a moonwalk competition and Michael Jackson dress up day at work, where nearly everyone came in balck with loafers and a few fedoras around the building. Today I still get occasional crap about him being a paedophile and weird, but these are people I barely know and most people now know how I feel about Michael Jackson and will not go there. Like when Prince died a lot of people contacted me out of the blue when Michael died as they knew it would affect me greatly.

Bascially I don't get angry anymore with jackasses talking shit about MJ, I try to steer them on and agree to disagree, we all know the truth and that is all that matters. The worst opposition are trolls on prince.org who keep hijacking the MJ thread with lies and rubbish and we report them and their asses get cut and banned for a while.
 
More lighthearted, was this year as we went to see the Prince concerts in Auckland, one of my hardcore Prince mates was having a pint with me and I mentioned Michael Jackson when asked if I was obsessed with anyone else, like I was with Prince. I said Michael Jackson and he was quite negative, not the usual rubbish as he is my mate and knows better than to talk mess about Michael, but that MJ was quite lame.

I said come on, you don't like Thriller? , he was like oh its okay I kind of like Billie Jean, then Bad, - oh some good grooves and then Dangerous , well. He said, 'I love that album, it is incredible" and then I said then you like the music of Michael Jackson. He admitted to it. It is easy to win converts to the cause.

And then my older partner who generally can't stand either of the artists admitted he loved the "Off the wall" album and the songs Speechless and Break of Dawn.
 
More lighthearted, was this year as we went to see the Prince concerts in Auckland, one of my hardcore Prince mates was having a pint with me and I mentioned Michael Jackson when asked if I was obsessed with anyone else, like I was with Prince. I said Michael Jackson and he was quite negative, not the usual rubbish as he is my mate and knows better than to talk mess about Michael, but that MJ was quite lame.

I said come on, you don't like Thriller? , he was like oh its okay I kind of like Billie Jean, then Bad, - oh some good grooves and then Dangerous , well. He said, 'I love that album, it is incredible" and then I said then you like the music of Michael Jackson. He admitted to it. It is easy to win converts to the cause.

And then my older partner who generally can't stand either of the artists admitted he loved the "Off the wall" album and the songs Speechless and Break of Dawn.

Well,most people can't hide that they like him as an artist :D
 
when introducing Michael you have to know the audience.. know what they like and think of the song that best fits that genre or style.. play that first!
 
Okay i had no idea where to post it but some guys on youtube are really getting on my nerves now:


Tell me what was so impressive about the arrangements in his head.Let's say he played all of the instruments himself.What was so groundbreaking or incredible about the chord progressions,the key changes,the time signatures,the note structures...Tell me what was non basic about them.Because to me it sounds like simple,rehashed pop dreck.Not to say he didn't have some good songs,but he was so far from brilliant.It is a insult to include him in the same class as Marvin Gay,Stevie Wonder,Prince,Sly Stone,James Brown etc.

And another person called him 'a bit of a dick' for having the solo writing credits on stranger in moscow.

Should i answer or is it pointless?
 
Okay i had no idea where to post it but some guys on youtube are really getting on my nerves now:


Tell me what was so impressive about the arrangements in his head.Let's say he played all of the instruments himself.What was so groundbreaking or incredible about the chord progressions,the key changes,the time signatures,the note structures...Tell me what was non basic about them.Because to me it sounds like simple,rehashed pop dreck.Not to say he didn't have some good songs,but he was so far from brilliant.It is a insult to include him in the same class as Marvin Gay,Stevie Wonder,Prince,Sly Stone,James Brown etc.

And another person called him 'a bit of a dick' for having the solo writing credits on stranger in moscow.

Should i answer or is it pointless?

Music and who you like or dislike is subjective. If someone doesn't think Michael was all that special then there is nothing wrong with holding that opinion. Obviously we as fans of MJ think that's a ridiculous thing to say but MJ should be treated like any other artist.
 
Music and who you like or dislike is subjective. If someone doesn't think Michael was all that special then there is nothing wrong with holding that opinion. Obviously we as fans of MJ think that's a ridiculous thing to say but MJ should be treated like any other artist.

I think you're right,there are many trolls on youtube but this one seemed to express his genuine opinion.So I'm just gonna leave it
 
Okay i had no idea where to post it but some guys on youtube are really getting on my nerves now:


Tell me what was so impressive about the arrangements in his head.Let's say he played all of the instruments himself.What was so groundbreaking or incredible about the chord progressions,the key changes,the time signatures,the note structures...Tell me what was non basic about them.Because to me it sounds like simple,rehashed pop dreck.Not to say he didn't have some good songs,but he was so far from brilliant.It is a insult to include him in the same class as Marvin Gay,Stevie Wonder,Prince,Sly Stone,James Brown etc.

And another person called him 'a bit of a dick' for having the solo writing credits on stranger in moscow.

Should i answer or is it pointless?

The jealousy and delusion are strong with this one...

You can still answer them : express (calmly) your opinion about Michael and why you (and many others) consider him as a groundbreaking genius.
 
We have discussed alot and we came to the conclusion that we'll never agree.But i told him i appreciate his love for these other artists and that he's allowed to have his opinion :)
 
"What do others think of Michael"

The answer is obvious in 2 ways

50/50 chance of hate and love
 
Okay i had no idea where to post it but some guys on youtube are really getting on my nerves now:


Tell me what was so impressive about the arrangements in his head.Let's say he played all of the instruments himself.What was so groundbreaking or incredible about the chord progressions,the key changes,the time signatures,the note structures...Tell me what was non basic about them.Because to me it sounds like simple,rehashed pop dreck.Not to say he didn't have some good songs,but he was so far from brilliant.It is a insult to include him in the same class as Marvin Gay,Stevie Wonder,Prince,Sly Stone,James Brown etc.

And another person called him 'a bit of a dick' for having the solo writing credits on stranger in moscow.

Should i answer or is it pointless?
It's pointless.
The bolded automatically let me know that they're a delusional MJ hater.
They also may be a Prince fan.
Preference is one thing, but you can prefer one artist without tearing down another for your fave's sake, however people seem to not realize this when it comes to Michael.
The person your talking to clearly sounds like a hater.
 
Okay i had no idea where to post it but some guys on youtube are really getting on my nerves now:


Tell me what was so impressive about the arrangements in his head.Let's say he played all of the instruments himself.What was so groundbreaking or incredible about the chord progressions,the key changes,the time signatures,the note structures...Tell me what was non basic about them.Because to me it sounds like simple,rehashed pop dreck.Not to say he didn't have some good songs,but he was so far from brilliant.It is a insult to include him in the same class as Marvin Gay,Stevie Wonder,Prince,Sly Stone,James Brown etc.

So according to this person MJ was nothing special, yet he looks up his videos on YouTube to comment on them and try to prove to others how unspecial he was? LOL, there is always an irony in such things. If he was truly not special you wouldn't lose a thought on him and spending time trying to discredit him as an artist.

Music is subjective and different people have different aesthetics and they look for different type of experiences. Someone may look for a unique note structure or whatever, someone else may look more for what music emotionally does to them and not for technicalities. I acknowledge the geniuses of the people this person listed, but they do not give me remotely the emotional experience that MJ does. And while I like to listen to all of them, after a while some of them can get boring while that never happens to me with MJ. But again, that is MY subjectivity, just like this other person has his own subjectivity.

I do not think MJ's ambition was to come up with something experimental, unique chord progressions, key changes and stuff. He was more of an instinctive artist who simply came up with what he liked and what felt right to him. I actually like him for being more instinctive and less technical - to me that has a certain genuine, vernacular soulfulness to it that is rare. I don't care if music snobs who are often too focused on technicalities appreciate it or not. MJ did not need snobs' approval for his music to touch and move millions, if not billions of people all over the world - regardless of cultural background, nationality, race, social status - and in ways those other artists that snobs appreciate never did.

Having said that, MJ did have his own style that is ridiculous to call "rehashed pop dreck". There is nothing "rehashed pop dreck" about songs like Who Is It, Billie Jean, TDCAU, Workin' Day and Night, WBSS, Morphine, Heartbreak Hotel... and the list goes on and on and on. He did have a unique style that was far from rehashed from anyone and that you know is MJ when you hear it. It may not be a unique chord progression or whatever, but when you hear the song it is a very uniquely MJ song as a whole.

I personally think the fact that he is under MJ videos, commenting and trying to discredit in itself disrpoves what he says. If MJ was truly so insignificant and average he wouldn't spend time and effort on trying to discredit him as an artist. LOL. I do not lose thought and effort on artists that I truly think are average and nothing special.

And another person called him 'a bit of a dick' for having the solo writing credits on stranger in moscow.

As if you cannot find something like that about almost any artist. From Prince to Pink Floyd to James Brown you can name examples of writing credit being given to one person while others contributed as well. There is a certain segment of the MJ fandom that overblows this SIM issue so much that it is ridiculous. Usually these "keeping it real" types.

And BTW I said "MJ fans" because it is not something that the general public usually talks or cares about. It is an issue that fans talk about. So if this person is aware of it then once again it shows he is preoccupied with MJ more than the average person in the general public is. So much effort and thought put into discrediting an artist he thinks is "nothing special". LOL.
 
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I have an MJ tattoo on my left arm, and when I'm wearing a T-shirt, it is quite prominently on display. I get quite a few looks, especially if I go swimming. I'm always ready to attack, "yeah, that's Michael Jackson. Got a problem with that?"... but most people are actually really cool about it and just ask me how long I've been a fan etc.





I did get one guy who saw it when I was in a swimming pool one time and he goes "so you don't believe all that stuff about his being a child molestor then?". I felt like saying "oh yeah, I do. That's why I got the tattoo. I have one of Jack The Ripper on my back and Jimmy Savile on my thigh."

I'd pay money to see their face :D
 
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