Which songs from his big six albums (Off the Wall, Thriller, Bad, Dangerous, HIStory, Invinicible) were originally going to be singles but weren’t?

[Mister_Jay_Tee]

Huh? Nothing like that is planned in advance. You might pick about 3 songs, but after that, EVERYTHING depends on the sales.

Well I think MJ saw potential in a lot of songs and wanted to give them the single treatment. Whether that came to fruition or not was it's own thing.

Wasn't Beat It entirely funded by MJ anyway? They didn't want to spend much on it.

 

[Spaceship]

An album doesn't need ten singles and Invincible was never going to have that many lmao. 3-4 singles were the norm at the time. 'N Sync's No Strings Attached, Backstreet Boys' Black and Blue, and Britney Spears' Oops, I Did It Again all came out in 2000, just a year before Invincible, and none had more than four singles. Each of these albums sold over 15 million worldwide.

Some people think Sony sabotaged the album by not releasing "You Rock My World" as a CD single in America, but this is nonsense as it was common for record labels not to release songs as CD singles at the time. By 2001, it wasn't necessary for a song to be a CD single to be a big hit on the Hot 100; in 2000, "Bye Bye Bye" by 'N Sync hit no.4, "Kryptonite" by 3 Doors Down hit no.3, and "Try Again" by Aaliyah hit no.1 (the first song in history to hit number one solely through airplay). In 2001, "Differences" by Ginuwine hit no.4, "Let Me Blow Your Mind" by Eve hit no.2, "Angel" by Shaggy hit no.1, and "Lady Marmalade" by Christina Aguilera, Lil' Kim, Mýa, and Pink hit no.1, "Falling" by Alicia Keys hit no.1, and "U Got It Bad" by Usher hit no.1. All of these songs exceeded the top five without a release as a CD single. "You Rock My World", on the other hand, only hit no.10. "Butterflies" did even worse, only hitting no.14. Not having a CD single wasn't any excuse; the fact is, these songs just weren't very popular.

Sure, Sony could have at least released "Butterflies" and one more single worldwide ("Cry" should have never come out, period), not to mention air a commercial for the album during the 30th-anniversary concert broadcast that over 30 million people watched, but would the album have really sold much more? It sold about 6 million; even if the promotion went well, I don't see it selling more than double that amount. Funnily enough, the album was purported to have sold over 12 million in the past and even back then, that number was considered disappointing. All things considered, though, Invincible didn't do that badly for a 2001 pop or R&B album. All for You by Janet only sold about 7 million worldwide, even with a number-one hit single. 8701 by Usher only sold about 8 million, even with two back-to-back number-one singles. Britney by Britney Spears only sold about 8 million worldwide and none of its singles were very successful. Celebrity by 'N Sync only sold about 6 million and most of its singles weren't that successful, either. None of these albums broke 10m. In 2001, people were just burnt out with pop music.

 

[Hot_Street]

not to mention air a commercial for the album during the 30th-anniversary concert broadcast that over 30 million people watched, but would the album have really sold much more?

It would've sold more and it would've been a no-brainer.
they didn't even promote the special editions, that were released at the same time
they wanted him down

 

[R1chard]

Well I think MJ saw potential in a lot of songs and wanted to give them the single treatment. Whether that came to fruition or not was it's own thing.

That's what I'm getting at. He might have wanted to milk the album and release all 16 songs, but ultimately neither MJ or Sony have any control over that. It's all to do with the public.

Wasn't Beat It entirely funded by MJ anyway? They didn't want to spend much on it.

Exactly. It's a business decision, not an artistic one. It's all about Return On Investment. If there's no profit, they're not interested.

By 2001, it wasn't necessary for a song to be a CD single to be a big hit on the Hot 100

Interesting point.

For me, the definition of "single" is something that's sold individually, and you can hold it in your hand. In the UK the "airplay chart" is separate from the "sales chart".

This seems to differ from the American definition, which seems to be "this song is a single because we said so, and we can prove it because a DJ played it on the radio once!"

But, as you say, 2001 was right at the beginning of the end of the album/single era. From that point, somebody could buy/download tracks one by one, so at that point the definition of "single" started to lose its meaning.

I guess in this context, what we're really talking about is how many videos were made.

 

[Blues_Away2023]

It would've sold more and it would've been a no-brainer.
they didn't even promote the special editions, that were released at the same time
they wanted him down

There you go again.... It's Sony's fault , they wanted him down your worshipping of Michael has left you unable to open your eyes and perhaps see the wider picture.

 

[Hot_Street]

There you go again.... It's Sony's fault , they wanted him down your worshipping of Michael has left you unable to open your eyes and perhaps see the wider picture.

It didn't help that he refused to tour. But he couldn't. @Mister_Jay_Tee said he wasn't allowed to perfom songs from Invincible.
To me the songs on Invincible have more mainstream appeal than the ones on HIStory, and that one sold a lot with promotion.

 

[Spaceship]

It would've sold more

Much more, as in, significantly? It's not like Dangerous sold millions and millions more when MJ went on his press campaign in 1993 (Super Bowl and Oprah interview). It was at 4m in America at the start of 1992 and by 1994, it was at 6m. So, if Sony aired a commercial for Invincible during the broadcast of the 30th anniversary special, it would have ended up selling two or three million more copies at most? The official number would be 8m as opposed to 6m ... is that anything to write home about?

I'm not even sure if Invincible would have sold 10m. History sold that much as a single package and MJ in 2001 wasn't even as popular as he was in 1995. Music by Madonna sold about 10m; she was the same age as MJ but nowhere near as controversial. Would MJ have been able to sell as much as her in 2001?

This seems to differ from the American definition, which seems to be "this song is a single because we said so, and we can prove it because a DJ played it on the radio once!"

The Hot 100 used to be a singles chart, but once airplay-only songs were allowed to chart, it's just been considered a songs chart. Informally, though, anything on the radio is assumed to be a single.

 

[Blues_Away2023]

It didn't help that he refused to tour. But he couldn't. @Mister_Jay_Tee said he wasn't allowed to perfom songs from Invincible.
To me the songs on Invincible have more mainstream appeal than the ones on HIStory, and that one sold a lot with promotion.

Yes it didn't help that he never toured I agree , I do think that a world tour would have been very difficult to achieve based on his poor showings at the MSG concerts, unless there was a sudden turn around in his dependencies.

I'd love to see documents that state MJ wasn't allowed to perform songs from his new album?

It's not all about promotion though, do you never consider that MJ was 43 years old? That's old for a popstar plus throw in the controversies and odd appearance, Michael was passed the cool stage and his music no longer the most anticipated.

By 2001 the world was bored of Michael, he was a laughing stock to many and way past his peak.

 

[Hot_Street]

It's not all about promotion though, do you never consider that MJ was 43 years old? That's old for a popstar plus throw in the controversies and odd appearance, Michael was passed the cool stage and his music no longer the most anticipated.

By 2001 the world was bored of Michael, he was a laughing stock to many and way past his peak.

look at the Stones
they're 80, touring, releasing new music

 

[Blues_Away2023]

look at the Stones
they're 80, touring, releasing new music

It's not a dig at older artists btw Jagger and the Stones.have always been cool.

Older artists can release music and tour to great success which has been proven.

My point is that Michael Jackson in 2001 was not cool and his reputation as a weirdo was even more prominent.

It was a different vibe to how MJ was looked at around the time This is it was announced. It has been many years since he'd performed and there was genuine excitement for his comeback by 09.

 

[Hot_Street]

My point is that Michael Jackson in 2001 was not cool and his reputation as a weirdo was even more prominent.

It was a different vibe to how MJ was looked at around the time This is it was announced. It has been many years since he'd performed and there was genuine excitement for his comeback by 09.

he didn't look healthy in 2000/2001, I know

 

[Blues_Away2023]

he didn't look healthy in 2000/2001, I know

I never mentioned his health in the response you quoted me?

 

[Little Susie Pie Jesu]

The only two non-singles I can think of are Dangerous and Unbreakable (this one was mentioned on the sticker).

As for the Invincible album, it was always doomed to fail, regardless of the promotion. MJ was out of fashion. All the songs were just R&B. Allegations. The lead single was good but not great. Etc.


Huh? Nothing like that is planned in advance. You might pick about 3 songs, but after that, EVERYTHING depends on the sales. If the 4th single is a success, you release a 5th. If that's a success, you release a 6th. If that's a success, you release a 7th. Etc. But you stop as soon as they don't sell. They go one at a time - sometimes they release more than "planned", sometimes less.

I'm talking about Michael Jackson's plans for Invincible. He planned 10 singles and 4 films. Maybe he also could create video for Cry and Heaven Can Wait. But it was never confirmed.
The lead single would be great initiation for the whole album. And Threatened could be perfect ending for Invincible era

 

[Little Susie Pie Jesu]

An album doesn't need ten singles and Invincible was never going to have that many lmao. 3-4 singles were the norm at the time. 'N Sync's No Strings Attached, Backstreet Boys' Black and Blue, and Britney Spears' Oops, I Did It Again all came out in 2000, just a year before Invincible, and none had more than four singles. Each of these albums sold over 15 million worldwide.

Some people think Sony sabotaged the album by not releasing "You Rock My World" as a CD single in America, but this is nonsense as it was common for record labels not to release songs as CD singles at the time. By 2001, it wasn't necessary for a song to be a CD single to be a big hit on the Hot 100; in 2000, "Bye Bye Bye" by 'N Sync hit no.4, "Kryptonite" by 3 Doors Down hit no.3, and "Try Again" by Aaliyah hit no.1 (the first song in history to hit number one solely through airplay). In 2001, "Differences" by Ginuwine hit no.4, "Let Me Blow Your Mind" by Eve hit no.2, "Angel" by Shaggy hit no.1, and "Lady Marmalade" by Christina Aguilera, Lil' Kim, Mýa, and Pink hit no.1, "Falling" by Alicia Keys hit no.1, and "U Got It Bad" by Usher hit no.1. All of these songs exceeded the top five without a release as a CD single. "You Rock My World", on the other hand, only hit no.10. "Butterflies" did even worse, only hitting no.14. Not having a CD single wasn't any excuse; the fact is, these songs just weren't very popular.

Sure, Sony could have at least released "Butterflies" and one more single worldwide ("Cry" should have never come out, period), not to mention air a commercial for the album during the 30th-anniversary concert broadcast that over 30 million people watched, but would the album have really sold much more? It sold about 6 million; even if the promotion went well, I don't see it selling more than double that amount. Funnily enough, the album was purported to have sold over 12 million in the past and even back then, that number was considered disappointing. All things considered, though, Invincible didn't do that badly for a 2001 pop album. Britney by Britney Spears only sold about 8 million worldwide and none of its singles were very successful. Celebrity by 'N Sync only sold about 6 million and most of its singles weren't that successful, either. In 2001, people were just burnt out with pop music.

Michael Jackson planed to make Invincible album a real banger! He created brand new choreography for Unbreakable video! He wanted to make Unbreakable video a legendary video, that people could watch again and again. Unfortunately Sony ruined everything. This stupid company just needed to give him about 30-50 million dollars, so Michael could give us his mastermind magic. But they were too greedy

 

[Hot_Street]

I never mentioned his health in the response you quoted me?

let me explain my thoughts
you mentioned he wasn't cool back then, and looks help to build a cool image - but he wasn't in a great shape back then

SCHEDULE FOR THE ESTATE

Let's support the Estate and collect dates and ideas for future releases. We can do it, we can do it We can work it out The Jacksons, 1976 SCHEDULE FOR THE ESTATE: 2024 Victory 40th Anniversary https://www.mjjcommunity.com/threads/victory-40th-anniversary.202865/...

www.mjjcommunity.com

 

[Blues_Away2023]

m

I said "looked at" as in the way he was viewed.

 

[Little Susie Pie Jesu]

Also let's not forget, that Michael considered Invincible album as his best work! He confirmed that during 2001 interview. He knew exactly what he was doing. He had a great plan. Sony ruined it

 

[Hot_Street]

I said "looked at" as in the way he was viewed.

you mentioned he wasn't cool back then, and looks help to build a cool image - but he wasn't in a great shape back then

SCHEDULE FOR THE ESTATE

Let's support the Estate and collect dates and ideas for future releases. We can do it, we can do it We can work it out The Jacksons, 1976 SCHEDULE FOR THE ESTATE: 2024 Victory 40th Anniversary https://www.mjjcommunity.com/threads/victory-40th-anniversary.202865/...

www.mjjcommunity.com

 

[Blues_Away2023]

you mentioned he wasn't cool back then, and looks help to build a cool image - but he wasn't in a great shape back then

I give up

 

[Hot_Street]

I give up

you didn't read the newspapers back then, did you?
the photos of him made him look bad, he was viewed as weird because of his looks

SCHEDULE FOR THE ESTATE

Let's support the Estate and collect dates and ideas for future releases. We can do it, we can do it We can work it out The Jacksons, 1976 SCHEDULE FOR THE ESTATE: 2024 Victory 40th Anniversary https://www.mjjcommunity.com/threads/victory-40th-anniversary.202865/...

www.mjjcommunity.com

 

[mj_frenzy]

Michael Jackson planed to make Invincible album a real banger! He created brand new choreography for Unbreakable video! He wanted to make Unbreakable video a legendary video, that people could watch again and again. Unfortunately Sony ruined everything. This stupid company just needed to give him about 30-50 million dollars, so Michael could give us his mastermind magic. But they were too greedy

Michael Jackson himself could have financed the 'Unbreakable' music video, without Sony's funds.

The problem had to do mainly with the fact that Sony cancelled all the remaining, official promotional campaign of that album.

When Michael Jackson was about to start filming (along with the American director Brett Ratner) the 'Unbreakable' music video in April (2002), the official promotional campaign of that album had already ended.

 

[Hot_Street]

When Michael Jackson was about to start filming (along with the American director Brett Ratner) the 'Unbreakable' music video in April (2002), the official promotional campaign of that album had already ended.

It seems Michael tried his best for Invincible.
They wanted him to sell his catalogue, that's why they caused financial trouble.

SCHEDULE FOR THE ESTATE

Let's support the Estate and collect dates and ideas for future releases. We can do it, we can do it We can work it out The Jacksons, 1976 SCHEDULE FOR THE ESTATE: 2024 Victory 40th Anniversary https://www.mjjcommunity.com/threads/victory-40th-anniversary.202865/...

www.mjjcommunity.com

 

[analogue]

Also let's not forget, that Michael considered Invincible album as his best work! He confirmed that during 2001 interview. He knew exactly what he was doing. He had a great plan. Sony ruined it

He was just saying to that hype up the album. Almost all artists do this whenever they have new project out

 

[Little Susie Pie Jesu]

He was just saying to that hype up the album. Almost all artists do this whenever they have new project out

No no no. He wasn't lying

 

[Little Susie Pie Jesu]

It seems Michael tried his best for Invincible.
They wanted him to sell his catalogue, that's why they caused financial trouble.

SCHEDULE FOR THE ESTATE

Let's support the Estate and collect dates and ideas for future releases. We can do it, we can do it We can work it out The Jacksons, 1976 SCHEDULE FOR THE ESTATE: 2024 Victory 40th Anniversary https://www.mjjcommunity.com/threads/victory-40th-anniversary.202865/...

www.mjjcommunity.com

#SONYSUCKS

 

[ChanceToDance]

#SONYSUCKS

I know of a person who thinks the same thing!

#SONYSUCKS

Our greatest Invincible Alliance will always protect legacy and sacred path of Invincible Era! #SONYSUCKS

 

[Little Susie Pie Jesu]

I know of a person who thinks the same thing!

You are not even trying to stop, aren't ya

 

[Blues_Away2023]

You are not even trying to stop, aren't ya

Neither are you , Richard76 , Richard77, Michael Afton and now Little Susie Pie Jesu.

No no no! We ALL know who you are!! Even @Hiker knows so will hopefully raise it to @Gaz as this fella has managed to create another account despite being banned for the 4th time.

 

[PurpleThriller]

You are not even trying to stop, aren't ya

are ya?*

 

[R1chard]

It didn't help that he refused to tour. But he couldn't.

Because health? What if he'd done a more casual tour? One without dancing and theatrics?

Nirvana Unplugged is agreed to be one of the best concerts of all time, and that's just a bunch of guys sitting still on a stool (contrast with their normal show, which involved running around, having fights, etc). MJ could have done the same.

he wasn't allowed to perfom songs from Invincible.

I don't believe that for a second. It's simply not something that's legally enforceable.

Anybody can stand up and sing any dong they want. You can't stop them.

e Hot 100 used to be a singles chart, but once airplay-only songs were allowed to chart, it's just been considered a songs chart. Informally, though, anything on the radio is assumed to be a single.

Yeah, that's not the right definition, but they can do what they want, I suppose. Might as well say HIStory had 30 singles, since any song can be played on the radio.

look at the Stones
they're 80, touring, releasing new music

And... It's very poor. They headlined Glastonbury in 2013 and it was embarrassing. Really terrible. They're even worse now. They've not had a top 30 hit since 2005, most songs don't get into the top 100. They've not had a top 10 hit since 1981. Just because you can carry on, doesn't mean you should.

I saw Blondie in the 90s and they were well past their prime. Imagine how disappointed I'd be if I saw them another 30 years later.

I'm talking about Michael Jackson's plans for Invincible. He planned 10 singles and 4 films.

Again, it's not MJ's decision. He doesn't get to control that. It's the public reaction that determines whether more singles are wanted or needed. The first two flopped, so there wasn't a 3rd. But if the 12th single is a success there will be a 13th. See?

. This stupid company just needed to give him about 30-50 million dollars, so Michael could give us his mastermind magic. But they were too greedy

I really don't think you understand how the music industry works.

Also let's not forget, that Michael considered Invincible album as his best work! He confirmed that during 2001 interview.

Yes, he would say that.

Just to clarify: every artist always says their most recent album is their best. It's because (1) they want to sell more copies, or (2) they genuinely believe it, just because it's what they've spent the last year doing, their memory plays tricks on them, etc.