Why don't we ever talk about Michael as an artist?

friend

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well as ya'll are pointing out he's so damn good at so much, so maybe make it easy

and break it out

dance:
now go into your technical speak - so i fan follow you - lol

lyrics

whoever out there makes music - break that out - cuz i'm stuck at lyrics - lol

but maybe it'll be easier if you take him a bite at a time, instead of trying to discuss it all -- lol
 
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lol, okay. For dance, only a few things matter. First, style, you have to have an original style or ain't nobody gonna remember you no matter how good you are. Lines, you have to have clean lines, have to, have to, have to. What I mean by that is, would you be able to take a snapshot of the dancer and then place it behind a white sheet and have the image make a perfect silhouette? If so, then that dancer has good lines. And Michael has perfect lines, take a look at a picture of him dacing in line with others, and you'll see what I'm talking about. Speed, a dancer has to make quick transition between steps, if they're slow, then it's no on them being great. And last, but not least, how smooth is that transition between steps? It's got to be effortless and easy, light and without hesitation and rigid stops or freezes.

Michael's got ALL that and a bag o' chips. And that makes him the best dancer, for real.
 

olivia

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:lol: Laaaaawd, I think you're the one who put it out there for everyone to see... it's discussed in this board. ;) I think you're talking about boards that are not MJ boards but everyone will laugh at your tail if you talk about MJ being Mozart or something. They'd cuss you out on that. :rolleyes: IMHO, the man's a great talent and he's such a great artist. No one can take that from him.
[/b]
Anybody who would laugh at MJ being compared to Mozart is to be pitied for being so ignorant. MJ is simply THE musical genius of this last 100 years. NO ONE has given to the world musically like MJ.
WBSS I so understand your frustration. I know how you feel inside about this man's gifts. I feel the same. I usually don't post in such threads as these because I get soooo annoyed when he's compared to others. Actually he has no peers. His genius in completely on another level from anyone we've had in musical history in many many many decades - this past century. So I just usually am annoyed with the fans for not realizing this or allowing others (non fans) to come to the board and push the idea that so and so is on his level. When no one is on the man's level.
This was KNOWN in the 80's and accepted (his unparrallel -sp.- talent, genius). And it was accepted by the general public because the media had not brainwashed people at that point. Had not turned people against him. The focus was on his creativity. People (including fans) who were too young or not born during the 80's or very early 90's cannot really understand, and certainly cannot appreciate the depth of MJ's talents. You see, it was during this time that he was allowed to unleash his talents to the fullest without suppression from his oppressors. He caught them off guard and even they were in awe. That's why we had the masterpieceTHRILLER.
In my opinion, the THRILLER era revealed the genius of Michael Jackson like no other. For me personally it is difficult to explain how GREAT MJ is musically. I can never find the words to express what he is able to offer us. Because I simply cannot comprehend his amazing gifts. His genius actually leave me speechless. That Is why I appreciate you WBSS. You put into words what I feel about the amazing MJ.
But the impact the THRILLER ERA had on the world put into perspective how utterly phenomenal and superior his creativity is. He is the ONLY entertainer in the history of entertainment that was able to appeal to everybody on the planet - every age, every color, every ethnicity, every language, every country, worldwide. That sums up MJ's genius. NO one else has done that - Not even Mozart. I mean how in the world can you make your art loved by everyone?! - a 2 year old loves you and a 92 year old loves you - and all cultures adore you, all over the world. I'm repeating myself because we ( many of his fans) tend to forget what an amazing, seemingly impossible task Mike has achieved in the world of entertainment. And that is so sad.
 

RedMaryFlint

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Mike is a master at many things. I've always wondered what instruments he plays well. I believe on some of his songs he's played some instruments. Does anyone know which instruments Michael plays? I know that on another popular non-MJ forum, this subject is brought up a lot. The conversations usually go something like this: Well you know so-and-so is a genius because he plays guitar and all the instruments on his album. Michael Jackson is just an entertainer. He's not a real musician. Therefore, so-and-so is so much better.
[/b]
:lol:

Its kind of silly, when a guy can sing, dance, write music, and make groundbreaking videos, to argue that he isn't a genius or a "real" musician. If the rest of us could do half so well in our own fields as Michael does in his!

The answer is, yes, he can play instruments. But let's point out the blindingly obvious: would you put a mover like Michael on stage and weigh him down with an instrument? That's not what people crave from Michael.
 

Timmy84

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:lol: You don't know... I mean, I think most of it is Michael's fault. :lol: We'd been told he was a singer and dancer but mention he's a musician/multi-instrumentalist and they'd give you dirty looks. :rofl: So if it's what people craved, why all this mention of it? :lol: I'm just saying, I would like to see him play drums and/or piano in front of my TV screen. Is that too much to ask? :smile:
 
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Too true Victoria. People WOULD get pissed if Michael played instruments and compromised his dancing for it. He's a showman, a performing artist. People bring it up to try and detract from Michael, that comes from Prince fans. They try to raise Prince, or whoever really, above Michael, and so they try to find something Michael can't do to justify that.

Michael can play, but who cares. So can a million and one other people.

Like Victoria said, if only we could perform half as well in our own fields as Michael does in his, we would all be rich and famous.
 

RightOn

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People do that, I think, because they fail to realize that Michael Jackson is peerless, comparisons cannot to made to him because he is a superior talent.[/b]

I agree. But I wish he'd come back and prove it again in this era --- at least do it before he's ready to receive social security (or before I am ready to receive social security :doh: ).
 

Yvee

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they aint talking much about him as an artist cause what sells more are infos about his private life and made up stories about him.
[/b]
That is why they are talking negative things about Michael because they are all in denial that he is a true Genius and Artist. :flowers:
 

friend

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Prince is no Michael Jackson - and there's just no sense trying to turn him into Michael - no matter what anyone says - the divide is too great
 

Yvee

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:lol: You don't know... I mean, I think most of it is Michael's fault. :lol: We'd been told he was a singer and dancer but mention he's a musician/multi-instrumentalist and they'd give you dirty looks. :rofl: So if it's what people craved, why all this mention of it? :lol: I'm just saying, I would like to see him play drums and/or piano in front of my TV screen. Is that too much to ask? :smile:
[/b]
For me it is because I love to hear his voice and watch him move his body. I think playing an instrument while doing these things would take away from his real talent.
 

friend

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For me it is because I love to hear his voice and watch him move his body. I think playing an instrument while doing these things would take away from his real talent.
[/b]

me likes the way he mooooves that body too :p -- that's art -- right?
 

Yvee

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Anybody who would laugh at MJ being compared to Mozart is to be pitied for being so ignorant. MJ is simply THE musical genius of this last 100 years. NO ONE has given to the world musically like MJ.
WBSS I so understand your frustration. I know how you feel inside about this man's gifts. I feel the same. I usually don't post in such threads as these because I get soooo annoyed when he's compared to others. Actually he has no peers. His genius in completely on another level from anyone we've had in musical history in many many many decades - this past century. So I just usually am annoyed with the fans for not realizing this or allowing others (non fans) to come to the board and push the idea that so and so is on his level. When no one is on the man's level.
This was KNOWN in the 80's and accepted (his unparrallel -sp.- talent, genius). And it was accepted by the general public because the media had not brainwashed people at that point. Had not turned people against him. The focus was on his creativity. People (including fans) who were too young or not born during the 80's or very early 90's cannot really understand, and certainly cannot appreciate the depth of MJ's talents. You see, it was during this time that he was allowed to unleash his talents to the fullest without suppression from his oppressors. He caught them off guard and even they were in awe. That's why we had the masterpieceTHRILLER.
In my opinion, the THRILLER era revealed the genius of Michael Jackson like no other. For me personally it is difficult to explain how GREAT MJ is musically. I can never find the words to express what he is able to offer us. Because I simply cannot comprehend his amazing gifts. His genius actually leave me speechless. That Is why I appreciate you WBSS. You put into words what I feel about the amazing MJ.
But the impact the THRILLER ERA had on the world put into perspective how utterly phenomenal and superior his creativity is. He is the ONLY entertainer in the history of entertainment that was able to appeal to everybody on the planet - every age, every color, every ethnicity, every language, every country, worldwide. That sums up MJ's genius. NO one else has done that - Not even Mozart. I mean how in the world can you make your art loved by everyone?! - a 2 year old loves you and a 92 year old loves you - and all cultures adore you, all over the world. I'm repeating myself because we ( many of his fans) tend to forget what an amazing, seemingly impossible task Mike has achieved in the world of entertainment. And that is so sad.
[/b]

Right on point. I totally agree with you.
 

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BUt that would be only if Michael Realizes he HAS TO DO IT. He has to show the young ones why Michael Jackson is Michael jackson.[/b]

True. I know MJ's been through a lot of unfair circumstances but his output, compared to other legendary performers, is slim in quantity.


Some of you have said that we haven't seen all of MJ's talent -- that he's holding back. I believe that too. I think the guy is even more talented that we've seen.

But I don't know what it is. But he's been in a rut and Invincible proved that. MJ could half-step and still be one of the world's best performers. But wouldn't it be great to see all he could do -- if he really pushed himself.

Like I said, I don't know what it is. Is it a question of complaceny, lack of passion .. lack of a willingness to take risks?

If we just focus on the dance mores ... has MJ really innovated in this area in the last decade?

For his next CD to be really successful, MJ's gonna have to tap into some of the hidden talent we're talking about and bring some real inspiration to a tired music industry.
 
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Okay, you said it friend, I didn't, haha.

Well, I remember a member here once posted a quote from a famous compser stating that (paraphasing) Prince couldn't come anywhere near Michael Jackson. It was some famous compser who said this, I forget his name now, maybe Elmer Bernstein or Irving Berlin. I wish I could remember.

But either way, I don't want anyone to fight over this. But I agree with you friend. And I'm a big fan of Prince too, he's way talented.

And I agree with you RO to a certain extent. Michael needs to push himself, if he wants it, and he should just say 'who cares if people are threatened by my talent, I'm gonna lay it all out for em.'
 

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'who cares if people are threatened by my talent, I'm gonna lay it all out for em.'[/b]


Exactly. He, in fact, should say, " who cares what anyone thinks .. including the fans .. I'm going to do my best to bring out all the ideas I have in music and art --- to have joy in creating my work .. to make art that is a message to the future the Michael Jackson was here and he was damn good." MJ's so lucky to be that talented and be in such a position where he could do something like that. And I as a fan would love to see him do it.

That should be his focus. He's beyond "critical criticism". He doesn't need money. So he should free himself of the constraints of pre-existing ideas, perceptions and expectations and see where that takes him.

Because, it doesn't matter how talented you are, eventually age and death gets you. So he may as well, "lay it all out for em". :yes:
 

bgz

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Yes, most all will agree that Michael is a musical genius, but as with everything, it is subjective. Let's not get into the who is better at what argument, it really is something truly unique upon each individual's beliefs of what is musical genius. Everything is well and good when members respect other's opinions- and can voice their opinion in an open forum of discussion in a respectful manner. Please keep this in mind when posting.
 

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I'm just saying, I would like to see him play drums and/or piano in front of my TV screen. Is that too much to ask? :smile: [/b]

Not at all. I would like to see the same thing. It would blow my mind 'cause I can't even imagine it.

I've seen pictures of MJ at a drum set when he was little, and have read how he wanted to learn how to play back then. And then there's "percussion" typed next to his name on some songs on older albums (And who knows what that was. LOL. There's a wide range of instruments in the percussion section). Then there's the Pepsi commercial with him playing some chords on a piano. But that's it, at least all I know of. He's never displayed any major skill on any musical instrument on TV nor the stage. Not even on record. But I'm not saying that makes him insufficient as a musical artist. Just not strong in that area. What he lacks in that area is made up for with other abilities. U know....Maybe he can't sing and play something like guitar simultaneously, or has poor fingering and can't control or isn't quick enough to play the strings. Or maybe he lacks interest in all the hard work of learning and playing an instrument like base guitar (not "bass"...that's a fish. But base. ;) ) or drums with proficiency and skill in order to keep rhythm and time. Who knows. But I don't see any traces of him even having the desire to seriously play instruments. Even after coming from an instrument based family, he's never given off that vibe.

Anyone can learn instrumentation, but not everyone can master the art. And we're aware that MJ is the type to only do/show what he's mastered, which is why I believe we will not see him play any instrument. Not everyone is born with the innate ablity to pick up various instruments, play by ear, and quickly without any formal instruction, master them, and soon compose high quality innovative music. I believe that's a form of genius given to certain people, like MJ's genius in dance.
 

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People bring it up to try and detract from Michael, that comes from Prince fans. They try to raise Prince, or whoever really, above Michael, and so they try to find something Michael can't do to justify that.
[/b]

That's not it. Not at all. And U do the exact same thing once an artist like Prince is mentioned, just in the opposite manner. U mention how he can't dance like Michael, or beat-box like Michael. And if U noticed, because I know both artists like the back of my hand, I've never argued with U on that. Those are areas he is not as strong in or can't do like MJ. And yet, U constantly negate every trace of genius within Prince that I mention. That's obviously because U don't know Prince. Which is cool. If anything, I'd be willing to help U learn more about him. But don't state your negative opinion as if it is factual.

Besides, it's not about raising anyone above MJ, and least not on my part. My intention is to just broaden the aspect of musical genius when I mention Prince, not to compare MJ to anyone. Plus I've always said they are equal in my eyes. I don't knock anyone down, and I've never negated MJ's musical genius in the areas most people know he's excelled in. And yet, when artists like Prince are brought in, it's automatically because I'm trying to praise him for some reason? Why would I come here to do that? Come on....

I am a Michael Jackson fan just like everyone else.

Showing love for Prince doesn't make me not show love for MJ, and I've never tried to be negative toward Michael but just state what I know. But I see beyond my own personal love and admiration I have for him and Prince when participating in discussions about "genius." Yes, U know I'm a "Prince fan," and I sport a Prince signature and post in almost every thread about him here based on my own personal interest and feelings, but that has nothing to do with the perspective I present on his genius in music.

Prince is a raw musician who has mastered musicianship, regardless of what U can say negative about him. I've heard him do at the age 18 after learning on his own and playing by ear for 4-5 years what many multi-instrumentalists can't even do at 50 after playing and having lessons for 35 years. To be able to compose/arrange and play at such a high level at such a young age within a short amount of time, and without any formal instruction is genius. Don't believe me? I've got audio to prove this if anyone wants to hear this for themselves. Just like MJ's genius with dance. Prince and instrumentation is the exact contrast to MJ and dance in my eyes. They master anything they attempt in those fields, since childhood. And because of composers like Prince, I love musician-composers. I fully appreciate their gifts, that's why I defend them so much. I only mention him often when discussing genius because he is, like Michael Jackson, an artist I know and study musically.

U also mentioned your opinion of composition in one of your posts. I would never deny that Michael Jackson is one of the best musical composers in history. But a composer that can conceive original music, arrange, and play what's he/she's created on his/her own is even more powerful in that area to me. That's Prince, among others not even mentioned. U can continue argue against that, but it's true. To be able to play a full, "quality" composition alone in a studio instead of relying on hired musicians is a high quality gift that should not be negated. I know U have your opinion, but it's not "jack-of-all-trades" when that person has "mastered" a "quantity" of instruments and has created exceptional and completely original music. Like I said, forget how I feel about Prince personally. I'm not basing my opinion here on emotions like it seems U have with MJ. Your words are insulting to all the artists like Prince who have broken boundaries with their instrumental innovations based on their own solo composition and creativity. If U are not being biased, it's truly unfair and hypocritical for U to "praise" MJ for his multi-skills in vocal styling for example, but then say negative comments about hardcore composers who do all the raw instrument work on their own just 'cause U feel "they can."
 
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But the impact the THRILLER ERA had on the world put into perspective how utterly phenomenal and superior his creativity is. He is the ONLY entertainer in the history of entertainment that was able to appeal to everybody on the planet - every age, every color, every ethnicity, every language, every country, worldwide. That sums up MJ's genius. NO one else has done that - Not even Mozart. I mean how in the world can you make your art loved by everyone?! - a 2 year old loves you and a 92 year old loves you - and all cultures adore you, all over the world. I'm repeating myself because we ( many of his fans) tend to forget what an amazing, seemingly impossible task Mike has achieved in the world of entertainment. And that is so sad. [/b]

This, to me, sums it all up. To be able to capture a whole universe means that everyone sees something in your talent that is different--be it a sound, a dance step, a particular move.

I'd like to go back to a quote from Prince when he told a journalist at a press conference, "Michael Jackson may know something that no one else knows." (This may not be the exact quote but it's pretty damn close.) I've always believed this. In order to appeal to as many people as Mike does, he has to know something that no one else knows. If he didn't, someone else would have done it before him, or, maybe someone else knows it, but didn't have the talent to put it forth.

On another note, just take a look at MJ's genius as a youngster. I found this on youtube while exploring some of the earlier performances of the Jackson 5. Mike is doing a rendition of one of the Delfonics' first recordings. Listen to the way he sings "Can you remember when we were babies." That one line just brought chills all over my body--the way he sang ba-a-bies. Lawd!!!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=H6ezgAeN58E&search=jacksons%20
 

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Well let's mention that it is not only about talent to be a well known or even famous genius because that's a side I maybe admire the most when it comes to Michael!

Someone mentioned this...
if only we could perform half as well in our own fields as Michael does in his, we would all be rich and famous.[/b]
and that's the core of what I mean!

See I'm pretty good in my professionell field! Ppl who know me, know that and that's enough to me!
I got some offers to go into higher levels connected with lots of money of cuz (that's always how they try to get you! :lol: ) but I didn't take them for some reason! First of all cuz I think I'm best here working on the basis! And because I feel I'm best in this it's what I'm meant for hopefully! Second although I can handle it, I don't like too much attention. But certainly what I don't like is all the handshaking and small-talk what would eat up my time, I could spend on working on what and how I really like! Plus when you're famous nowadays you seem to lose every right for privacy! But ok I'm not in the music-business! My talent is much different!
Still it's very similar in every field just not on so public stages and with so much audience around!

You need to be willing to take all the side effects!

I mean... Look how ppl are treating Michael Jackson for years!
Endless slandering in the media, paparazzis everywhere, ppl searching his trash for... I have no idea for what but I know they do! A DA with mental problems getting obsessive etc. etc. etc.
Not mentioning the pressure which is always and will be always existant for his children and everyone who will ever come close to him in any kind of relationship.

If you're good at doing something, if you're better than the rest and you get famous with it... things are not only bright! Yeah lots of money... wow great! :mellow:
It's lonely up there!

Michael is willing to take it! I think he knows his responsibility! And even if he had from a certain point no other chance anymore... I truely honestly admire him from the bottom of my heart for the way he's living his life!
 
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That's not it. Not at all. And U do the exact same thing once an artist like Prince is mentioned, just in the opposite manner. U mention how he can't dance like Michael, or beat-box like Michael. And if U noticed, because I know both artists like the back of my hand, I've never argued with U on that. Those are areas he is not as strong in or can't do like MJ. And yet, U constantly negate every trace of genius within Prince that I mention. That's obviously because U don't know Prince. Which is cool. If anything, I'd be willing to help U learn more about him. But don't state your negative opinion as if it is factual.

Besides, it's not about raising anyone above MJ, and least not on my part. My intention is to just broaden the aspect of musical genius when I mention Prince, not to compare MJ to anyone. Plus I've always said they are equal in my eyes. I don't knock anyone down, and I've never negated MJ's musical genius in the areas most people know he's excelled in. And yet, when artists like Prince are brought in, it's automatically because I'm trying to praise him for some reason? Why would I come here to do that? Come on....

I am a Michael Jackson fan just like everyone else.

Showing love for Prince doesn't make me not show love for MJ, and I've never tried to be negative toward Michael but just state what I know. But I see beyond my own personal love and admiration I have for him and Prince when participating in discussions about "genius." Yes, U know I'm a "Prince fan," and I sport a Prince signature and post in almost every thread about him here based on my own personal interest and feelings, but that has nothing to do with the perspective I present on his genius in music.

Prince is a raw musician who has mastered musicianship, regardless of what U can say negative about him. I've heard him do at the age 18 after learning on his own and playing by ear for 4-5 years what many multi-instrumentalists can't even do at 50 after playing and having lessons for 35 years. To be able to compose/arrange and play at such a high level at such a young age within a short amount of time, and without any formal instruction is genius. Don't believe me? I've got audio to prove this if anyone wants to hear this for themselves. Just like MJ's genius with dance. Prince and instrumentation is the exact contrast to MJ and dance in my eyes. They master anything they attempt in those fields, since childhood. And because of composers like Prince, I love musician-composers. I fully appreciate their gifts, that's why I defend them so much. I only mention him often when discussing genius because he is, like Michael Jackson, an artist I know and study musically.

U also mentioned your opinion of composition in one of your posts. I would never deny that Michael Jackson is one of the best musical composers in history. But a composer that can conceive original music, arrange, and play what's he/she's created on his/her own is even more powerful in that area to me. That's Prince, among others not even mentioned. U can continue argue against that, but it's true. To be able to play a full, "quality" composition alone in a studio instead of relying on hired musicians is a high quality gift that should not be negated. I know U have your opinion, but it's not "jack-of-all-trades" when that person has "mastered" a "quantity" of instruments and has created exceptional and completely original music. Like I said, forget how I feel about Prince personally. I'm not basing my opinion here on emotions like it seems U have with MJ. Your words are insulting to all the artists like Prince who have broken boundaries with their instrumental innovations based on their own solo composition and creativity. If U are not being biased, it's truly unfair and hypocritical for U to "praise" MJ for his multi-skills in vocal styling for example, but then say negative comments about hardcore composers who do all the raw instrument work on their own just 'cause U feel "they can."
[/b]

Wow, now, I wasn't targeting you specifically with that comment, if that's what you think. I'm sorry if you took it that way. I was speaking in general terms, and I should have stated that. I'm sorry for the confusion.

I really respect Prince, and you’re right, I don't know him or his music like I do Michael's. I have no doubt that he is an exceptionally gifted musician and song writer. I'll always be the first to state that Prince is one of the most talented musical artists to come up in recent history, and I always thought of him as the only real competition to Michael back in the day.

Let me just make myself clear, so as there will be no further misunderstanding. I have never stated that I thought Michael was a greater musician then Prince, in fact, I know he is not.

I've heard from people that Michael has worked with that he does in fact play several instruments, by ear, as you've pointed out Prince does. Michael, however, does not dedicate his time towards the development of those skills as Prince does, for whatever reason.

He plays the drums, he plays them solely on "Morphine", and the guitar. And I've heard he can play the keyboard quite well. Beyond that, I am not sure. But I do know that he plays all of them by ear alone, and without practice.

Michael has a perfect and an indelible sense of rhythm, and so I have no doubt in my mind that he would have little difficulty playing an instrument and singing at the same time. I've seen many singers able to do so. Caren Carpenter, for example, played the drums and sang. Eventually she gave that up because her voice was so good that they figured her best position would be up front. The lead singer of the Eagles, Phil Collins, Elton John, Christopher Cross, there are countless singers who possess the ability to sing and play instruments at the same time. I do not consider it particularly special. That's just me though.

But Michael is able to keep two different, three different beats all at once, in his head, they see him keeping those beats by bobbing his head and tapping his feet and hands. I've heard other musicians state this after having been in the studio with him. So for him to play an instrument and sing would not be difficult for him I imagine.

How that music comes to Michael is a sign of musical genius. Because it is just there, he does not have to pick it out on a piano, or gradually progress the piece. It is all just there, in his head, all at once. Now getting that out, I agree, is a disadvantage to a degree, because he either then does have to pick out the chords or relay it to a musician using his voice. But to me also, that shows an advanced understanding of music. His ability to relay what he has in his mind to musicians using only his voice to me shows his brilliant level of musical comprehension.

The instruments used to create the music does not matter, but how the music is arranged does. That is why I couldn't care less what instruments or computers Michael uses to compose his songs, as long as it comes out sounding exactly as it is in his head.

I don't think you admire Michael any less because of your admiration of Prince. Not at all, and I am sorry if you got that impression. I was speaking in general about Prince fans who put Michael down for not apparently playing musical instruments, as though that takes away form his ability as a song writer. I believe it does not, and I would argue even that it enhances his abilities because he is not limited by the constraints of musical instruments or notes, he does not know limitations because of it.

Again, this thread is not about comparisons, and my intention was for it not to turn into that. I can't even remember who brought Prince up. But it's beside the point.

A master guitarist would be, to me, Jimmy Page, or Jimmie Hendrix, Eric Clapton, B.B. King, etc... the best in that one field. I don't think Prince is that.

I think Michael is unique because he is the best in more then one field, few people have ever held such a high quality of talent in so many areas, in my opinion, and there never has been a performing artist who has besides Michael.

Vocally, he is as good as any pure vocalist out there. In terms of dance ability, he is as good, technically and stylistically, as anyone has ever been, and his ability to compose is likewise the same, not to mention his unparalleled charisma and command of the stage.

So, anyway, carry on.
 

Kana

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Hi. Sorry if I sound unrelated to what's been discussed here as i haven't gone through the whole thread.
Just saw a few posts here talking about Mozart so I just wanted to express my opinion briefly.

I have just read the book called "Mozart's letters, Mozart's life" and I very much thought that comparing Michael to Mozart somehow made sense. They were both child prodigies, they both created something that had never been done before, and they are both indeed, real genius with no doubt.

One of my uni professors once said there were only three true 'genius' composers in the past; Mozart, Schumann, and Debussy. Beethoven wasn't, nor Brahms nor Ravel. And I agree with that.

So what distinguish geniuses from others?
I know this can't be answered easily but I think it could be something like extra ordinary talent, incomparable energy towards the art, and true spontaneity that non-genius can not achieve even with their full effort.

This is clearly seen in Michael's singing and dancing(and we all love that :p ), and also in Mozart's composition.
They don't try to be different, but they were born to be different.

Thanks for reading! :p
 

Butterfly

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I was wondering why we never talk about Michael as an artist. Sure, on occasion there is the odd thread here and there discussing how Michael's singles are doing in different countries, or they'll be a poll asking some absurd question about whether Michael is still the King of Pop or not, and we all run and vote. Well, some of us do anyway, lol. Maybe I'm just bored, haha.

But I rarely come by a thread that discusses Michael's artistry, and when I do, it is usually buried under thread after thread of discussion relating to the latest person filing suit against him, or topics concerning where Michael is in the world.

Okay, that last one can be fun, and I enjoy reading them as much as anyone. But Michael Jackson is probably the most multi-talented performing and recording artist in history, and he is absolutely, undeniably, brilliant.

I mean, he's a real genius.

But we never talk about that it seems, we never talk about his outstanding abilities is so many different fields. And I would think, with someone as vastly talented as Michael is, we would be able to have endless conversations about each of his unique gifts.

My dad once said to me, while holding a conversation with me about Michael, 'Can you understand what it means to be as talented as Michael Jackson? Can you even imagine having that much talent?'

So, I guess my post holds two questions. One, why don't we ever talk about Michael's brilliant artistry, and two, do people really understand how gifted Michael Jackson is? Do people realize what that amount of talent means, do they grasp the actual level of his abilities?

To answer question two on my own, I don't think people in general really do understand how gifted Michael is. I don't think people understand that he is of unique ability. That's why, I feel, you constantly have people drawing comparisons between Michael and today's pop stars, these dime a dozen talents who have saturated the industry for the past 10 years. I know some may argue that it is done because people do realize how great Michael is, and they are simply flattering him by lining others up against him. But I always feel that it is a gross underestimate of Michael's talent, like a minimizing of what his level of talent actually is.

People do that, I think, because they fail to realize that Michael Jackson is peerless, comparisons cannot to made to him because he is a superior talent.

There are many jacks-of-all-trades running about. People who are fairly good at many things. But there is only one person that I can think of who is a master in everything they do and are, and that is Michael Jackson.

A master vocalist, a master dancer, a master songwriter, a master showman (he commands the stage like no other can or ever could hope to), an all around creative genius. That's Michael Jackson.

He's the only person in modern history that possesses a level of genius in so many different areas, to be the best in so many different areas, and I think it is worth discussion, honestly.

So why don't we?
[/b]

When he releases music we may discuss the artist MJ and not the person. The last ten years we have not seen so much music from him so there has not been so much to talk about. Unless you want to discuss the Thriller album here once more;-)
The focus on his personal has been bigger then on his music because of the allegations and his eccentric way of living. You can be beat me up for this but that's the way it is. When he releases music I'll be the first to discuss it.
 

RightOn

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I find it hard to believe that MJ's been in a band since he was 5 years old and never tried to play an instrument. Hell .. we've even seen Randy play piano and bongos.

Plus MJ has had the amibition to write music and produce since he was a kid. So he must of made some time to learn how to play an instrument(s) in that time.

When MJ makes those demo for songs on his album, who is playing the music?

I remember in the mid-80s George Martin was asked, "who is the better musician, Paul or MJ?" Martin had worked with both on SAY SAY SAY amoung other things. Martin's response was that he thinks Paul is a better at the keyboards than MJ.

I interpreted that as "yes MJ plays the keyboard but not as well as Paul does (in Martin's opintion)".


But you are right. For MJ to finally put this debate to rest he would have to play an instrument(s) in public.


I'm not saying he's a master (like Prince is with the guitar) but I think MJ does have instrumentation skills.
 

vanesa

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I NEVER COMPARED MICHAEL JACKSON AND MOZART ARTISTICALLY, THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE.
My very point is that Moazrt was not recognized at his time as the BEST composer because of The Theory that Salieri made something, which the movie Amadeus shows, is up to you to believe what happened to Mozart, but there were entries in diaries or journals from Beethoven that he himself says that salieri confessed to the murder of Mozart. Well having said that.
Michael's art is very different to Mozart's art., i don't imagine little Mozart doing The Moonwalk :doh:
as well as i can't imagine Michael at age 5 playing the piano with his eyes bended.
What my poinit IS is that Geniouses tend to be stubborn, that's why Mozart failed to the public at his time. Is the same that happened to Michael with the AMAZING album INVINCIBLE. This kind of talents are very different, and unic if you want to call them.
I remember clearly that The Emperator declared an opera from Salieri as the greatest opera, in that moment Mozart who was in the theater left and then saracastically said to Salieri that his music (salieri's music) was so "particular" that he couldn't describe it.
Invincible was very much taken down by the ones who control the business, like the critics who don't know nothing about nothing, they were like the emperator who declared Salieri as the Brightest Star which he wasn't.
Vanesa
 

rayen

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"Amadeus" is fiction. None of the situations in that film are based on actual events, its all speculation at best.
 

vanesa

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I know very well Amadeus is fiction, AS I SAID BEFORE is UP to YOU, to decide what's the truth OK.

Oh and one more thing if you have a very well entrained ear you may know that INVINCIBLE is one of MJ's finest works, but I don't know why are you almost attacking me, see the song Just Lose It From Eminem has a strong secret influence of Two Thousand Watts, is just that Em will never said it.
Now Rayen respect my opinion would you.
 
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