Motown 25: Brief Rehearsal Clips

[Galactus123]

I wish they would have included the rehearsal footage too. I don't see them using it in other project so I don't really understand why they blocked them. This would have been perfect time to have the rehearsals.

 

[OnirMJ]

You can't spin that in a positive way because the estate will NEVER release this.

You can't know that. Maybe MJ's children will. You don't know what will happen 5, 10, 30 or 50 years from now. Michael Jackson material is for us, but also for future fans.

 

[OnirMJ]

This.

I wonder what their intension is.

Release it on their own project. Just like Victory and State Of Shock. Just like Last Photoshoots.

 

[MichaelD]

Hahaha, funny because Michael is the one who hand picked them himself. So basically you are saying that Michael sucks at decision making.

Yeah I agree they ****ed up massively with releasing fake songs (on 2 different albums - Michael & Immortal!!) and releasing poor quality VHS in 2012. But other than that, they are doing pretty good.

Michael didn't choose them in 2009. It happened many years before. They are his legal estate legitimated by his will, yes. We don't know if he would make the same decision again.

Lucky Johns that Michael never updated his last will (speculation on my side. We just don't know if Michael would have decided differently in 2009 or not. He didn't. But that doesn't mean he was still d'accord with his 2002's will on every part).

 

[Annita]

Lucky Johns that Michael never updated his last will (speculation on my side. We just don't know if Michael would have decided differently in 2009 or not. He didn't. But that doesn't mean he was still d'accord with his 2002's testament on every part).

lol, he updated it 3 times and Branca was 3 times his choose.

And well, when he had other wishes he would make have made a update in the 7 yeras he had time for it,

 

[Tony R]

Amazing really, Birchey posts a couple of nice clips of MJ that are pretty exciting and yet war breaks out on here.

 

[OnirMJ]

Michael didn't choose them in 2009. It happened many years before. They are his legal estate legitimated by his will, yes. We don't know if he would make the same decision again.

Lucky Johns that Michael never updated his last will (speculation on my side. We just don't know if Michael would have decided differently in 2009 or not. He didn't. But that doesn't mean he was still d'accord with his 2002's will on every part).

I agree. I actually don't think he would do it this way but other than maybe some other executors name, nothing would change drastically. I would also like that he wrote one last will in 2009 but he didn't and we have to respect his decision from 2002.

But again, he re-appointed John Branca and Frank DiLeo in 2009 so I think that his 2009 executors would still be John Branca (lawyer), maybe Frank DiLeo (business manager) and I think he would have replaced McClain with some other music producer (probably Michael Durham Prince). Nothing else would change.

That leaves you in the same position in which we are now. Michael Durham Prince (25%) would be against fake songs but Branca (25%) would be for them and Sony (50%) would of course be for them. So the songs would still be released. John McClain did fight a good fight but he was outnumbered. Also don't forget that Frank DiLeo was for their release!!

So even if MJ wrote another will in 2009, we would still be in this situation. You have to remember that Estate exectutors are not just music producers or artists in general or even MJ fans. John Branca is a lawyer, Frank DiLeo is business manager and Sony executives are business men. They are not MJ fans and they are not musicians/artists. Only McClain knew that it wasn't MJ's voice on those tracks and he did what he could.

 

[OnirMJ]

Lol you just proved our point.

What else have they done?

Your argument is "No they don't always mess things up! They've released A, B and C so far!....well actually A was fake, B was unwatchable and C had kanye west shouting a speech over the top...but other than that...!"

What exactly falls under the category "other than that"?

This Is It was AMAZING (5/5)
Xscape was AWESOME!!! (4,5/5)
Bad 25 disc 2 was pretty decent
Immortal World Tour and One were incredibly successful.

Also Estate is not just for making new music and concert releases! Look what they have done financially and legally! Winning every time in court!

 

[xrisx]

Sad to see how this thread took a turn so quickly. i thought we finally found something to be positive about.
I remember the days when Michael was still around and we would have loved seeing even this tiny bit of footage. I know it's different now because Michael isn't here but still it saddens me when I see just how much has changed since then.
I thought us fans back then were impatient but it looks like it has just gotten worse with every year.
It seems so hard for this fanbase now to enjoy anything positive. It takes the fun out of looking at threads like this to be honest.
I can understand not agreeing with the estate (I don't always either) or eachother but maybe we sometimes need to remember why we even came to an MJforum like this in the first place. We're all here to support Michael and enjoy his work,right?

Do we have a thread were people can just vent their frustrations about the Estate or something? Maybe that would help so that threads like this can focus on the positive. I understand the frustrations but it's sad if the same discussions occur in every thread.

At the end of the day the Estate is going to do what they think is the best way to maintain the "Michael Jackson Brand". They want long term profit, I can understand that.
If I had access to everything I would want to see it all right now as well but that has never been the way Michael operated.
Remember it took years before TII came along. We were even lucky to get a picture of him (once every couple of months if that) or something like that during those years. In comparison we've gotten quite a lot over the last 5 years. It's all about perspective, I guess.

Anyway back on topic, nice to see footage like this. I thought it didn't exist for some reason so this is a lovely surprise! I hope we get to see more at some point. Funny to see that Michael was just as in charge there as he was later on in life.

 

[ivy]

never actually have you bothers to answer my initial challenging of your post.

Well it's because I never saw it as a challenge to be honest. Perhaps it was your choice of words, again I tend to not take curse words or negative words not seriously. If you want an answer

Some people just don't want to have Michael footage and will go to extreme lengths to spout any old crap. I don't know if it's an attempt to remain positive at all times even when the positivity is pure stupidity or what.

Untrue. There's no such thing as "some people just don't want to have Michael footage", at least for me and I would think so would everyone else. I would LOVE to have Michael footage, I cherish and value any Michael footage but I also realize the business decisions surrounding such releases and understand this is not just a matter of what I want when I want it.

If you need an example : I would love to see Motown rehearsals or Last Photo Shoots as soon as possible but I also realize and accept Estate might not want to have multiple releases at the same time and/or prefer to release them in a way which would give them maximum profits and/or control.

I don't think such approach to these releases is "go to extreme lengths to spout any old crap" or "pure stupidity". To the contrary I think it's realistic and rational approach. Realizing there's more to business decisions than what fans want.

In some of my posts in a funny way I tried to explain to how fans see themselves as entitled to anything and everything they want, how they feel they know best and how they feel like the center of universe. However in reality fans are just one factor in a complex decision making environment.

We got screwed over by the estate. We had a chance to see michael material and it got blocked. You can't spin that in a positive way because the estate will NEVER release this.

This part we already covered. It's your opinion that this will be never released. I personally think none of us know for sure what will be released in the future especially in the far future. I personally think everything will eventually get released but it would be spaced one project at a time to ensure the longevity of the Estate's revenue potential and yes it probably would take some time even decades. So as my personal opinion is that everything will eventually see a release, I don't see this event as negative as you do.

 

[AdamBa17]

This Is It was AMAZING (5/5)
Xscape was AWESOME!!! (4,5/5)
Bad 25 disc 2 was pretty decent
Immortal World Tour and One was incredibly successful.

Also Estate is not just for making new music and concert releases! Look what they have done financially and legally! Winning every time in court!

This Is It was good, I will agree.

Xscape and Immortal World Tour...I see those more as "milking the cash cow" opportunities rather than artistic successes.

Bad 25 disc 2 was good in the sense that it was unreleased material. I would definitely not expect that it was the finest footage available to them though...

I can't see a day when loads of footage (concerts from 30 years ago, rehearsal clips etc) will just randomly be released. And why would they release 10 different concerts from one tour anyway? They seem to want to try and block a number of attempts for us to see anything whatsoever.

If they are planning some kind of online video database like Metallica have online then I will be the first to eat my hat and get in line to view the footage. But to think that in 50 years time they will release the Motown 25 rehearsals and/or Bad Tour In Rome;New York; Barcelona etc. is quite far fetched. And that's basing it off of past history with other artists.

Like I say, if Michael is going to be the first artist to have all this random footage released years after his death on multiple blu rays or DVDs then I will certainly be surprised.

 

[AdamBa17]

Well it's because I never saw it as a challenge to be honest. Perhaps it was your choice of words, again I tend to not take curse words or negative words not seriously. If you want an answer



Untrue. There's no such thing as "some people just don't want to have Michael footage", at least for me and I would think so would everyone else. I would LOVE to have Michael footage, I cherish and value any Michael footage but I also realize the business decisions surrounding such releases and understand this is not just a matter of what I want when I want it.

If you need an example : I would love to see Motown rehearsals or Last Photo Shoots as soon as possible but I also realize and accept Estate might not want to have multiple releases at the same time and/or prefer to release them in a way which would give them maximum profits and/or control.

I don't think such approach to these releases is "go to extreme lengths to spout any old crap" or "pure stupidity". To the contrary I think it's realistic and rational approach. Realizing there's more to business decisions than what fans want.

In some of my posts in a funny way I tried to explain to how fans see themselves as entitled to anything and everything they want, how they feel they know best and how they feel like the center of universe. However in reality fans are just one factor in a complex decision making environment.



This part we already covered. It's your opinion that this will be never released. I personally think none of us know for sure what will be released in the future especially in the far future. I personally think everything will eventually get released but it would be spaced one project at a time to ensure the longevity of the Estate's revenue potential and yes it probably would take some time even decades. So as my personal opinion is that everything will eventually see a release, I don't see this event as negative as you do.

If you think that is realistic that footage like this will ever be released then I don't know what else to say. In what other context would a video of the Motown 25 rehearsals be appropriate rather than a Motown 25 box set containing other artists rehearsals??!!

When living in a fantasy world it's nice to picture future release by Michaels children like "Michael Jackson amazing unseen performances volume 1!". However, anyone living in reality would realise that this is unrealistic. What other artists has had multiple DVDs released of unseen random tid bits? None. There has to be a context and a reason to release these materials. The Estate had a perfect reason, just like Marvin Gayes estate holders did.

You say it's my opinion that this will never be released. Well I say it's your opinion that it will be released! Who's right? Who knows.

"I personally think that everything will eventually be released".

For someone who goes on about their age, their intelligence etc. do you really think that everything will eventually be released? If you do then again, there's nothing I can say to that because that just has no basis in reality and is not an opinion I would expect to hear from somebody with age and intelligence.

"I don't see this event as negative as you do"

You see it with delusion though.

Positivity is nice. But delusion is worse than negativity. A lot of people struggle to come to terms with this. Trying too hard to be positive has good intentions, but (as someone with age and intelligence would surely have learned at some point) maturity is about being realistic and trying to stay at the positive end of what is really possible.

If you want to fantasise that the estate will release "everything" on DVD then go ahead. I wonder how many DVDs 50 years worth of material would fit on to??

 

[OnirMJ]

Xscape and Immortal World Tour...I see those more as "milking the cash cow" opportunities rather than artistic successes.

Bad 25 disc 2 was good in the sense that it was unreleased material. I would definitely not expect that it was the finest footage available to them though...

I don't know about any cows. Of course they are making cash - THEIR JOB! Immortal World Tour and One are definitely not artistic success, I agree. But I disagree about Xscape. Artistically and commercially that album is a big success.

 

[AdamBa17]

I don't know about any cows. Of course they are making cash - THEIR JOB! Immortal World Tour and One are definitely not artistic success, I agree. But I disagree about Xscape. Artistically and commercially that album is a big success.

Artistically I personally think that Xscape is a shambles and I hate what they did to the songs. But I accept that everyone has their opinion on this so I won't argue that.

The crux of this debate is whether we have missed an opportunity because the estate didn't want us to see the Motown 25 rehearsals now, although we can see other artists rehearsals.

It comes down to what the chances are that we will ever see the footage again in another context.

The point is: another context may never come up, or it may. That's not certain. But currently, we know for 100% certainty that we had the perfect opportunity to see it now! Who bases business decisions on "possibility of an event happening at some point in the unknown future" rather than based on "we have the opportunity now and we have the material"...

We can all be optimistic that one day a magical Michael Jackson store will open with footage from every year of his life that we can all choose from.

Meanwhile, opportunities are coming up and being passed on constantly for very vague reasons.

 

[ivy]

In what other context would a video of the Motown 25 rehearsals be appropriate rather than a Motown 25 box set containing other artists rehearsals??!!

Well as you pointed out , how about "Michael Jackson Iconic Performances?"

And allow me to elaborate. On this thread I also made a statement that 99% of the fans on this thread wouldn't spend anywhere between $30 to $80 to get Motown 25 even if full rehearsal was included. I said if they are Motown fans, they could. It resulted in some people approaching it as a negative thing and some cursing. But it wasn't something negative as far as I'm concerned.

And I'll explain it. I'm not a Motown fan. The only other Motown artist I like is Stevie Wonder. No disrespect to other artists but this is not a release I'm interested in. (Just to clarify something - Cirque MJ shows isn't my cup of tea hence I have no intention to ever attend to them either. so my comments about Motown isn't about being dismissive or anything negative, it's just not my cup of tea). The only thing that would interest me is MJ related stuff. However I wouldn't spend $30 to just to get Motown performance on DVD because it's already available on DVD and I already have it. So a rehearsal footage would be the only thing new for MJ fans. Assuming MJ rehearsal footage - if included- came with the deluxe 6 CD version which sells for $80, I wouldn't spend that much to just get that while I didn't care about rest of the DVDs. I probably wouldn't pay $30/$40 to get MJ rehearsal either. So I would watch it on youtube. I believe such cost - value determination would apply to majority of the fans here.

Hence that's also why I think a MJ focused release would work better in terms of revenues as well.

What other artists has had multiple DVDs released of unseen random tid bits? None. There has to be a context and a reason to release these materials.

"What other artists" argument doesn't really work for MJ and even his Estate. Michael was the first to do many things and his Estate seems to be focused on "first time ever" too. You also had a nice example of Metallica online video database so why not a similar thing cannot happen for MJ?

And I'm not just saying this out of thin air. MJ Accounting has showed has Estate has an ongoing archiving project that has been going on for multiple years and costing multiple millions of dollars to archive and digitize MJ material. Why? If they had no intention to ever use / release such stuff why would they spend the time ,effort and money to work on them? Isn't it logical to assume that the reason they are working on such archiving is because they intend to use the materials one day?

and don't you think stuff like "Michael Jackson Iconic performances" or "Michael Jackson Performance Database" and so on are enough context and reason for a release?

You say it's my opinion that this will never be released. Well I say it's your opinion that it will be released! Who's right? Who knows.

true and I already said that no one knows for sure. That's why I try not to make definitive statements or call what others says as crap or BS. We are all expressing opinions here and we don't know who is right.

do you really think that everything will eventually be released? If you do then again, there's nothing I can say to that because that just has no basis in reality and is not an opinion I would expect to hear from somebody with age and intelligence.

yes I do and I disagree that it has no basis in reality. Like I said it's not baseless. The archiving project is one of the reasons. Other Estates such as Elvis Presley Estate is another example. It's been 37 years since Elvis was dead and his Estate still earns decent income. I would imagine MJ Estate is also aiming for such longevity hence their one project at a time and space them over time approach. How would they continue to earn money in the long long long term if they don't release what they have? even in this release, Marvin Gaye rehearsal is being released 30 years after his death. So why couldn't they release a MJ rehearsal at 2039 - 30 years after MJ's death? There's also a discussion on this forum about a collector's label which I see as a real possibility. I think right now they are focused on projects that can bring fast and a lot revenues from fans and public but after a while their focus would shift to fans only/mainly.

for example : releasing TII as soon as possible brought them a nice amount of revenue due to public interest. However let's say releasing "Best 10 performances of bad tour" wouldn't attract much public interest regardless of when it is released. So such projects can wait and be released in the distant future on a collectors label and/or video database that targets only die hard fans.

You see it with delusion though. maturity is about being realistic and trying to stay at the positive end of what is really possible.

It's your opinion that it's delusion. I see it realistic. Let me try to explain: Isn't it realistic for them to have an online video database? If Metallica can do it, can't they do it as well? Isn't it realistic to expect releases 30-40-50 years later as we have seen at Elvis and Marvin Gaye Estates? If your answer is yes then it means we agree it's possible and realistic. Then only whether if it would happen or not becomes our personal opinions. I'm saying it could happen and you are saying it won't happen. It becomes again something that we wouldn't know who's right.

 

[Birchey]

Maybe this rehearsal will be released in the future, everything will be released? That's a very poor argument, using the "maybe this might happen later" theme is complete BS, this is here and now, this is the release it should be on, everyone knows that, its just those who play "unofficial" Estate pro campaigners who again drag up the shit excuse. lets look at these arguments a little more.

So Motown 25 could be used in the future? in what sense, well like Ivy pointed out an imaginary release of "Michael Jackson Iconic performances" so is this going to be on DVD or BluRay? It can't be on there alone it should be flanked by other "Iconic" performances, so why could this rehearsal not be used on Motown 30th Release AND a future Estate release? "first time ever" the motto doesn't really match the release of an Album of songs that some have been available online for a decade, there is no first time ever anymore, doesn't match "first time ever" CGI Impersonator which was done before, what about the music video release on twitter,"first time ever" well just because you are a big artist or big name doesn't give you the "first time ever" exclusivity, as people have been pointing out Twitter has been used by smaller bands and artists to "Premiere" such content in the past.

Who still talks about the multimillion costing CGI Impersonator? What about APWNN being first ever music video to premiere on twitter? Who even talks about Xscape? really? Well how many times you see people speaking still to this day talking about that one performance in 1983, that one moonwalk? So hows about working with Suzanne De Passe, to try and spin this up and use these new "Social media" methods to simultaneously release that performance? Because lets face it, you can throw as much money as you want at getting something "viral" or "talk of the week" but it don't beat, standing on stage in a spy hat, wearing your mothers sequin jacket and a beaten up old Rhinestone glove and changing the course of music history!

 

[serendipity]

We got screwed over by the estate. We had a chance to see michael material and it got blocked. You can't spin that in a positive way because the estate will NEVER release this.

I'm sorry, why do you think you're the most important person the Estate should think about? Did you think the same when MJ was alive? That he screwed you over when he didn't do something you wanted? SMH

Get over yourselves people. Michael didn't release everything while he was here and the Estate isn't going to do it either. They also have other things to consider not just what the fanatics want.

I'm perfectly satisfied with what MJ has given me while he was alive. Everything else I get now I consider it a nice bonus and I'm not going to be throwing hissy fits about getting more and more and more.

 

[SoCav]

Example, how many fans own this DVD? I do.

http://www.amazon.com/We-are-World-...d=1412466659&sr=8-1&keywords=we+are+the+world

I'd say less than 10% of all MJ fans own that DVD, because it was not released as Michael Jackson's project and it's not MJ only, but MJ appears for maybe 10 minutes + in the music video. But I'm sure all of the fans watched it on youtube. If that footage was unreleased and MJ Estate released it now as MJ only DVD - that would sell a lot more. That is the point.

Only the MJ Estate has not exactly created a track record in the past 5 years of releasing the kind of priceless raw and unedited behind the scenes material that you can find on the WATW 20th anniversary DVD. If they had released stuff like this in the past or communicated their intentions to release stuff like this at some point in the future, then I can see the point about fans needing to give it some time. As it stands, there is no indication that the people currently in charge will ever release anything like this.

Also, I see a lot of discussion here about dvd sales profit and so on. Another thing is, again, MJ's legacy, which is not simply formed on the back of short term financial profit. Motown 25 is a big event in music history. It was a big moment in the history of Motown Records with many of the label's (and by that time the music world's) biggest stars returning to celebrate its incredible rise (although some great artists were missing, but alas). Of course, it was Michael's star-making performance that really put it over the top and made sure this event would become a standard reference in modern music history books.

One reason that it's great that an event like this gets released properly is that this footage is here to see for generations to come. It reinforces its historical importance. I just don't see what would be a better place for the footage of Michael's rehearsals than a dvd package that documents the entire event and all the other performers' preparations. Part of what made Michael's performance so magical is that he was surrounded by legendary artists, yet managed to steal the show. It just will not have the same impact to see Michael's rehearsals in isolation on some future 'Outtakes' DVD, stripped entirely from its original context. And again, that's if we are lucky enough to get anything like that at all. Judging by their track record, it's more likely we'll get a few seconds of rehearsal footage during an interview with Kanye West and Justin Bieber about how MJ's performance influenced their careers.

In my opinion, it just does Michael a disservice from a long-term historical perspective to block the release of this rehearsal footage. People will be marveling over the unreleased Marvin Gaye footage (and rightfully so), rather than footage of Michael preparing for his historic performance as well. It's a real shame.

 

[Birchey]

I'm sorry, why do you think you're the most important person the Estate should think about? Did you think the same when MJ was alive? That he screwed you over when he didn't do something you wanted? SMH

Get over yourselves people. Michael didn't release everything while he was here and the Estate isn't going to do it either. They also have other things to consider not just what the fanatics want.

I'm perfectly satisfied with what MJ has given me while he was alive. Everything else I get now I consider it a nice bonus and I'm not going to be throwing hissy fits about getting more and more and more.

Well you clearly don't care whether this is released or not, so I don't see how singling out one fan who does actually care and saying things like "Fanatics" and "Hissy fits" is really fair. I don't care about rare queen performances, or Elvis, but I don't go onto there boards and call the people who really want to see certain performances, fanatics and not to have hissy fits.

We are a strange breed, MJ fans, we are very diverse, and soem of us are at different levels of fandom for certain things, we have people who are very passionate about Michael's music, and performances, we take time to learn everything we can about his studio habits, what drove him and thats a big interest for us. So when The Estate want to release or not release something its going to hit a nerve or get a standing ovation from us.

 

[ivy]

I can't help and wonder if anyone actually bothered to check the details of the DVD. As far as I can see - and correct me if I'm wrong- only full rehearsal releases are of Marvin Gaye and Stevie Wonder. The DVD doesn't seem to include rehearsals from other people such as Temptations, Supremes and so on. If this is here and now and where all Motown stuff should be on then what is the "shit" excuse and who to blame for this screw up of not including all the other rehearsals?

edited to add: why is there no jacksons interviews either?

 

[SoCav]

I can't help and wonder if anyone actually bothered to check the details of the DVD. As far as I can see - and correct me if I'm wrong- only full rehearsal releases are of Marvin Gaye and Stevie Wonder. The DVD doesn't seem to include rehearsals from other people such as Temptations, Supremes and so on. If this is here and now and where all Motown stuff should be on then what is the "shit" excuse and who to blame for this screw up of not including all the other rehearsals?

Who knows. Perhaps their rehearsals were not filmed. Perhaps they figured that while The Temptations/Four Tops performance was a nice part of the event, it was not as big as the performances by Marvin, Stevie and of course Michael, and thus not a top priority. And while the Supremes reunion was major, it was very controversial due to the incident between Diana Ross and Mary Wilson. That could be a reason why these artists don't want outtakes out. I agree that it would have been great to have rehearsals, if they exist, for these performances too.

In any case, we do not know who exactly is responsible for their lack of inclusion, but we do know who is in Michael's case. And given that this is a Michael board, I think it's only logical that people will primarily talk about the reasons why his footage is not included, rather than Diana Ross' and others' footage.

 

[Tygger]

The fact is that Xscape would have been #1 album if only few thousands of those boycotting fans bought the album.

OnirMJ, that is simply not true. I already said why Xscape did not debut at number one and that was due to actions by Estate/Sony, not fans who boycott MJ releases.

Immortal soundtrack. Also both shows are using MJ's music and his record company is still Epic Records/Sony Music - so they had to agree on the usage of the music. So I'd call it Estate+Sony/Cirque venture.

You are confusing the point however; I will continue. Are you suggesting that soundtrack was successful? It was a remix cd and many fans here have said they do not appreciate remixes. Just so you know, I own the Immortal cd as well.

Ivy, I will keep my reply brief and very simple:

Your computation states Michael still has the highest royalty rate in the industry.

Questions: why did Sony have a representative whine about the commercial failure of Bad25 on this forum? Why is APWNN not being promoted appropriately leaving LNFSG as the only hit on Xscape? Why did Estate/Sony distribute free copies of Xscape at Cirque shows allowing it to miss the number one on Billboard? Basically and simply: why is Estate/Sony not pushing harder for that $9 you have computed? Estate/Sony does not want or need $9 per cd?

I personally would not be so quick to state repeatedly that this venture - which even you admit the sale of this particular offering is not the only revenue stream MJ Estate will enjoy as co-owner of EMI publishing - would not be as profitable as any one of the Estate/Sony collaborations considering those collaborations. We do not know the future sales of this particular Time-Life offering however; the combination of Time-Life and the legendary Motown25 television special is not expected to be a commercial failure. The MJ Estate benefits from all of those performers not just Michael because of the EMI co-ownership. Do not forget: the Estate/Sony collaboration is finite, i.e., five years left I believe. Your computations do not include sale numbers for the Estate/Sony collaboration most likely for good reason. Even $1 on each sale of this Time-Life offering could very well be more profitable than the $9 from a less successful collaboration.

Simple as.

As for Cirque: hopefully you gathered I do not limit my discussion to simply monetary value of projects as these projects have higher value than simply the monies they generate. However; the monetary success of Cirque’s shows was driven by their artistic control and promotion. Simplifying: the high ticket shows held more entertainment value for consumers than the Immortal cd and that speaks to the shows monetary success. No computation necessary.

Kidding aside for a minute take a step outside and look to the reactions and this is exactly why people look to MJ fans and don't take us seriously.

Not true. The media has always portrayed MJ fans as less that favorable as a direct insult to the man they admire. Historical fact; learn your history.

There has to be a context and a reason to release these materials. The Estate had a perfect reason, just like Marvin Gayes estate holders did.

Who still talks about the multimillion costing CGI Impersonator? What about APWNN being first ever music video to premiere on twitter? Who even talks about Xscape? really? Well how many times you see people speaking still to this day talking about that one performance in 1983, that one moonwalk? So hows about working with Suzanne De Passe, to try and spin this up and use these new "Social media" methods to simultaneously release that performance? Because lets face it, you can throw as much money as you want at getting something "viral" or "talk of the week" but it don't beat, standing on stage in a spy hat, wearing your mothers sequin jacket and a beaten up old Rhinestone glove and changing the course of music history!

Another thing is, again, MJ's legacy, which is not simply formed on the back of short term financial profit.

One reason that it's great that an event like this gets released properly is that this footage is here to see for generations to come. It reinforces its historical importance. I just don't see what would be a better place for the footage of Michael's rehearsals than a dvd package that documents the entire event and all the other performers' preparations. Part of what made Michael's performance so magical is that he was surrounded by legendary artists, yet managed to steal the show. It just will not have the same impact to see Michael's rehearsals in isolation on some future 'Outtakes' DVD, stripped entirely from its original context. And again, that's if we are lucky enough to get anything like that at all. Judging by their track record, it's more likely we'll get a few seconds of rehearsal footage during an interview with Kanye West and Justin Bieber about how MJ's performance influenced their careers.

In my opinion, it just does Michael a disservice from a long-term historical perspective to block the release of this rehearsal footage. People will be marveling over the unreleased Marvin Gaye footage (and rightfully so), rather than footage of Michael preparing for his historic performance as well. It's a real shame.

Re-quoted for truth.

Gaye’s estate generously granted that rehearsal that supports Gaye’s image, brand, and legacy. MJ’s estate would like some to believe this would not bolster Michael’s image, brand, and legacy only because it is not an Estate/Sony collaboration. As some would like other to believe: Michael fans will not purchase this anyway so, enjoy the rehearsal clips already on YT. Michael’s estate will be enriched by this venture any way it is sliced here. Unfortunately, Michael's image, brand, and legacy is foiled again.

 

[Tygger]

I can't help and wonder if anyone actually bothered to check the details of the DVD. As far as I can see - and correct me if I'm wrong- only full rehearsal releases are of Marvin Gaye and Stevie Wonder. The DVD doesn't seem to include rehearsals from other people such as Temptations, Supremes and so on. If this is here and now and where all Motown stuff should be on then what is the "shit" excuse and who to blame for this screw up of not including all the other rehearsals?

edited to add: why is there no jacksons interviews either?

This is deflection but, I believe you know that.

If you would like to suggest other estates or management types are behaving badly, it still does not excuse Michael's estate's behavior. In fact it makes Michael's Estate worse because he stole the show. It is illogical for his estate to ignore this fact by blocking his rehearsal footage.

As for interviews, there was an issue between Gordy and Michael so, that may very well speak to that. If there are interviews with the Jacksons, that would include Michael and his footage is being blocked by his Estate.

As for the Estate taking MJ fans seriously, is that a serious question?

 

[OnirMJ]

OnirMJ, that is simply not true. I already said why Xscape did not debut at number one and that was due to actions by Estate/Sony, not fans who boycott MJ releases.

And I strongly disagree with your opinion.

 

[Tygger]

And I strongly disagree with your opinion.

It is a fact, not my opinion. No worries.

 

[AdamBa17]

This is deflection but, I believe you know that.

If you would like to suggest other estates or management types are behaving badly, it still does not excuse Michael's estate's behavior. In fact it makes Michael's Estate worse because he stole the show. It is illogical for his estate to ignore this fact by blocking his rehearsal footage.

As for interviews, there was an issue between Gordy and Michael so, that may very well speak to that. If there are interviews with the Jacksons, that would include Michael and his footage is being blocked by his Estate.

As for the Estate taking MJ fans seriously? Is that a serious question?

Great post.

1) Michael was the star of Motown 25 (even by the admission of other artists performing on the night. It might even be fair to say that Michael is a big reason that the show is as well known as it is...although as an MJ fan that may be my biased thinking).

2) ivy, what makes you think that the fans of the other acts not included aren't arguing the same things on their respective forums? That's what fans do, support their artists. Why do I care what other artists fans think?

In trying to be "high and mighty" and take the "moral high ground" what you are actually doing is coming across disloyal and disinterested in the man you purport to be a fan of. Your strategy is backfiring, so it's best you just be honest with yourself and admit that the Estate did not act in Michaels best interests.

This is Motown 25 were talking about!!

 

[OnirMJ]

It is a fact, not my opinion. No worries.

No it is not a fact, it is just your very subjective opinion. The real truth is that there are 30-40% of MJ fans boycotting his releases. I'd say that is roughly 50,000 copies in the first week in US.

 

[Birchey]

It is a fact, not my opinion. No worries.

Yes I agree, I am not aware of any fans (there might be) who boycotted this album simply for fun, I think people didn't buy the album because the content was not to their tastes, that's not boycotting in my view. But there is a flip side I have seen plenty of fans buy multiples, some buying 10+ copies of the album. Either way I don't hold anything against people who either didn't buy, or bought multiple copies. I feel its all down to your taste and what you want to do, nobody can tell you to buy 10 copies of an album, nobody can tell you not to buy an album, its presented to you and the choice is yours.

 

[OnirMJ]

Yes I agree, I am not aware of any fans (there might be) who boycotted this album simply for fun, I think people didn't buy the album because the content was not to their tastes, that's not boycotting in my view.

I was not talking about those fans and I didn't say boycotting "for fun". The fact is that there are A LOT of fans who enjoyed Xscape album (at least 8 untouched songs) and who didn't buy it because of their personal feud with Sony Music, various conspiracy theories and because haters like Karen Faye told them not to buy it = boycotting! Those same people did however downloaded the album from torrents, spread the links for it and invited other gullible fans and regular people not to buy it. Those people are boycotters, not someone for who "the content was not to their tastes".

 

[Birchey]

I was not talking about those fans and I didn't say boycotting "for fun". The fact is that there are A LOT of fans who enjoyed Xscape album (at least 8 untouched songs) and who didn't buy it because of their personal feud with Sony Music, various conspiracy theories and because haters like Karen Faye told them not to buy it = boycotting! Those same people did however downloaded the album from torrents, spread the links for it and invited other gullible fans and regular people not to buy it. Those people are boycotters, not someone for who "the content was not to their tastes".

But they still didn't buy the product because they didn't want it yeah, so there is reasoning behind people not wanting this product? The whole point of releasing a product is to make people want, they didn't catch everyones attention end off, conspiracy theories or not.

P.S Sorry for 3 posts in a row, I am greedy xD