Most likely estate releases over the next year?

[innuendo141]

Hope its not Thriller 3d, History tour munich or an Xscape re-issue.

ANything else and I'm pretty sure I'll be happy

 

[OnirMJ]

This is getting ridiculous.

Fact of the matter, Onir, is that I just don't like this tour. There are very few positive things that I have to say. Michael's dancing is completely unenthusiastic for the most part. His vocals are painful to listen to (when he is actually singing, of course). The band seems totally uninterested. The greatness that he brought to the table for the Dangerous and Bad tours is missing from any show between 1996 and 1997. And it is in my opinion that the release of this show would not reflect well on a man who is hailed as the greatest entertainer of all time. So forgive me if I don't want to shower this show in praise.

Who are you to tell me that I'm exaggerating? Simply stating that I don't like the HIStory Tour is not breaking any MJJ Community board rules, so I'm allowed to say it as much as I please. You will not attempt to tell me that anything that I say is an exaggeration. Keep in mind this entire argument started because YOU quoted one of MY posts where I expressed MY dislike over this tour -- I never said ANYTHING to you specifically.

Bottom line: I don't like the HIStory tour. You do. That's fine; I'm not judging you. But I'm going to say whatever I want about it. That's what a discussion board is: I get to share my opinion as to what I think is a good and bad decision for the Estate. So long as I'm not breaking any board rules, it looks like I'm not going to stop. And with that said, this argument is over.

Ok, good luck with your petition! I know I'm going to enjoy myself watching Michael being spectacular and amazing on the big screen and in 3D!!! I'm sure that the full theatre of fans and regular people enjoying, singing and smiling will prove you wrong.

 

[OnirMJ]

Can I just add this:

Finishing unfinished and unreleased song for a release is called finishing - that is what Teddy Riley and other producers did for MICHAEL album. That is also what MJ did many many times with his songs - Wanna Be Startin' Something, They Don't Care About Us, Earth Song, Dangerous... The only difference is that back then MJ would do it by himself or with someone and now producers are doing it for him - because he's dead.

Contemporizing unfinished and unreleased song for a release is a term created by LA Reid to describe the process of finishing songs for MICHAEL album - the process includes stripping the song to A cappella and then creating completely new instrumentation around it, music inspired by Michael's vocals - like Michael's voice is guiding them to create new album. It's NOT re-mixing. It's creating completely new songs around Michael's voice, but to sound like Michael Jackson's record - something Michael would possibly do in 2014 if he was alive. Of course it's not the same, but it's producers vision of how MJ would sound today. Like LA Reid said, it's disrespectful trying to finish a song without Michael here and that's why they decided to go this way (I'm not saying this is more respectful, just saying that this was the album concept). So basically these contemporized songs are approximations of what would Michael Jackson's new album sound like in 2014 - NOT remixes. That was the whole point of this project!

Remixing finished and already released song is called remixing and those songs are called remixes, like Thriller 25 remixes, Bad 25 remixes or Blood On The Dance Floor remixes...

 

[innuendo141]

Ok, good luck with your petition! I know I'm going to enjoy myself watching Michael being spectacular and amazing on the big screen and in 3D!!! I'm sure that the full theatre of fans and regular people enjoying, singing and smiling will prove you wrong.

I think you have a hard time grasping what people are trying to say. Just because you and others will enjoy seeing something doesn't make alwaysthere's opinion wrong. You need to learn that everyone is entitled to their opinion and if he doesn't like the HIStory tour I don't see why it should bother you so much. I for one enjoy the tour but it's frustrating to see people lose the plot over someone else's opinion of a song, concert or album. This is a discussion forum, and I like seeing different opinions. Debates can be good but your above post, especially by snidely mentioning a petition are frustrating to see.

Live and let live, and most of all relax.

 

[OnirMJ]

I think you have a hard time grasping what people are trying to say. Just because you and others will enjoy seeing something doesn't make alwaysthere's opinion wrong. You need to learn that everyone is entitled to their opinion and if he doesn't like the HIStory tour I don't see why it should bother you so much. I for one enjoy the tour but it's frustrating to see people lose the plot over someone else's opinion of a song, concert or album. This is a discussion forum, and I like seeing different opinions. Debates can be good but your above post, especially by snidely mentioning a petition are frustrating to see.

Live and let live, and most of all relax.

You misunderstood me. Not prove his opinion wrong. His opinion will always be his and he'll always have it. I meant the success of the concert release will prove him wrong that people will not be satisfied, that the release will show Michael in a bad light as a performer and that critics will bash him - that last part is true, but they'll bash anything MJ, good or bad - they bashed Dangerous and HIStory albums!

 

[Virre]

I love History Tour, just saying.. I guess we see different things when watching it and when we saw it live. Michael was filled with energy and worked hard, guess we don´t see the same thing there either. I happened to attend a lot of those concerts, and I saw Bad and Dangerous Tours live too. Of course it´s not the same man on those 3 tours but I enjoyed them all as much. Even when he was sick with the flu he gave his all. I understand most don´t want the History Tour to be shown because of lipsync. But just to see the dancing he did on a big screen would make me happy. But to say everyone who worked on that tour lack in energy?Were you there? I was and I were close enough to know there was no lack of energy and Michael danced his ass of on most shows, and he was happy, very happy, his newborn gave him a lot of energy those days he almost had no voice and felt terrible.

And this is Veronica´s Mom hijacking the account for a bit..

 

[HIStory]

Contemporizing unfinished and unreleased song for a release is a term created by LA Reid to describe the process of finishing songs for MICHAEL album - the process includes stripping the song to A cappella and then creating completely new instrumentation around it, music inspired by Michael's vocals - like Michael's voice is guiding them to create new album. It's NOT re-mixing. It's creating completely new songs around Michael's voice, but to sound like Michael Jackson's record - something Michael would possibly do in 2014 if he was alive. Of course it's not the same, but it's producers vision of how MJ would sound today. Like LA Reid said, it's disrespectful trying to finish a song without Michael here and that's why they decided to go this way (I'm not saying this is more respectful, just saying that this was the album concept). So basically these contemporized songs are approximations of what would Michael Jackson's new album sound like in 2014 - NOT remixes. That was the whole point of this project!

You say it yourself: they strip the songs of their original instrumentation and music, keep only the vocal tracks and build a new track around it. "It's creating completely new songs around Michael's voice". So how is it authentic MJ music then? There is absolutely no way to tell if MJ had done any such things in 2014. These songs are not Michael Jackson's vision of how his music should sound but Timbaland & Co's. I bought Xscape and supported it, but I do not act like it's more than what it is and as if the new versions are authentic MJ songs. They are not. They are Timbaland & Co's vision about how Michael's music should sound.

Anyway, like I said this is not about Xscape any more. It's about a possible OTW re-release. OTW is a classic album, a legendary album with its unique sound that is emulated even today. So someone going there and saying he would put "contemporarized" versions of OTW era songs on that album would sound wrong to me. Even if those songs were not released on the original album and are just a product of that era but formerly unreleased. I understand the concept behind such actions - to make it appeal to current charts, but I'm not happy with the term "contemporarizing" in this context. It suggest there is something wrong with the initial OTW era sound which is ridiculous because it's a classic album and a sound that people desperately try to emulate even today. OK, have remixes and remakes with current aritsts - I get the "need" for them from a commercial POV. Just be respectful of the fact that the original album and sound is legendary and no need to have it "updated" by the likes of Pharrell, Bruno Mars, Timbaland etc. I just do not like the term "contemporarizing" in this context, that's all.

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

Idk but these generalities like his vocals were painful to listen to, dancing was weak just rubs me the wrong way and just comes off as a way to enhance their argument/disdain for the tour. I get it, he mimed in a lot of the songs, he was sick and some people don't like it. In the 2nd leg his vocals was almost back to normal.

is this so painful to watch and listen to??

[youtube]aG45VAjOeG0[/youtube]

 

[OnirMJ]

You say it yourself: they strip the songs of their original instrumentation and music, keep only the vocal tracks and build a new track around it. "It's creating completely new songs around Michael's voice". So how is it authentic MJ music then? There is absolutely no way to tell if MJ had done any such things in 2014. These songs are not Michael Jackson's vision of how his music should sound but Timbaland & Co's. I bought Xscape and supported it, but I do not act like it's more than what it is and as if the new versions are authentic MJ songs. They are not. They are Timbaland & Co's vision about how Michael's music should sound.

You said it all. I never said it's authentic MJ music. Never. I said it is still MJ songs (but in different arrangement). Only authentic Michael Jackson on those tracks are his vocals. No one is questioning that.

"There is absolutely no way to tell if MJ had done any such things in 2014."

- Absolutely. That's why I (and LA Reid) said "approximations of what would Michael Jackson's new album sound like in 2014", "something Michael would possibly do in 2014 if he was alive" and "producers vision of how MJ would sound today".

That was the whole concept of that album. The point was to use producers that either worked with him in the past, producers that he was going to work in the future and producers that he expressed strong desire to work with. By doing that they wanted to achieve the sound that MJ might have had in 2014 if he had lived. The point was not just to make those songs sound current, but to sound like 2014 Michael Jackson. They could have had David Guetta, Pitbull, Afrojack, Nero.. to do this songs their way - in that case those songs would become remixes - something MJ would never do, something that is not his style, never was and never would be - house/electro music. They handpicked greatest R'n'B and Pop producers of today to create their own vision of how would Michael sound today. No one is saying that he would sound exactly like that or even close to that, but no one can say he wouldn't either. Michael was evolving with every album, just look at Bad after Thriller, or Dangerous after Bad or Invincible after HIStory!

 

[HIStory]

That's why I (and LA Reid) said "approximations of what would Michael Jackson's new album sound like in 2014", "something Michael would possibly do in 2014 if he was alive" and "producers vision of how MJ would sound today".

There is no way to tell whether MJ would "approximately" or "possibly" do what is in on Xscape.

No one is saying that he would sound exactly like that or even close to that, but no one can say he wouldn't either. Michael was evolving with every album, just look at Bad after Thriller, or Dangerous after Bad or Invincible after HIStory!

You are reversing the argument. Just because we can't say MJ would not sound like Xscape in 2014 it does not mean he would. We cannot tell a lot of things about what MJ would do in 2014. By that logic, just because we can't say he would not climb the Mount Everest in 2014 does that mean we have to pretend he "possibly" would?

I have no problems with you enjoying Xscape and I actually have no big problem with the album. I only have problems with pretending things are what they are not. The new versions on Xscape are in the taste of Timbaland & Co., not Michael Jackson.

 

[Zakk]

The only song on 'Xscape' that sounds like a genuine Michael Jackson production is the title track, Rodney knew how Michael wanted his work to sound.. especially after working with him before. If the title track were to be a single from the album, i think it could have done well. As i recall back to the contemporized portion of the album, it makes me realize that nothing can come close to Michael's original works. Coming to next years releases, it would be nice if we could get more High Def material.. VHS footage is a let down, especially in this day & age. They need to put more work into these thing's, it's not acceptable. Especially when people are paying their own money to witness this archived footage.. they should use the best sources possible.

 

[OnirMJ]

There is no way to tell whether MJ would "approximately" or "possibly" do what is in on Xscape.

You are reversing the argument. Just because we can't say MJ would not sound like Xscape in 2014 it does not mean he would. We cannot tell a lot of things about what MJ would do in 2014. By that logic, just because we can't say he would not climb the Mount Everest in 2014 does that mean we have to pretend he "possibly" would?

And there is no way to tell he wouldn't.

About Mount Everest.. bad example. I gave an example:

"They could have had David Guetta, Pitbull, Afrojack, Nero.. to do this songs their way - in that case those songs would become remixes - something MJ would never do, something that is not his style, never was and never would be - house/electro music."

But collaborating with Rodney Jerkins again, StarGate (with whom he planned to work with) and Timbaland (with whom he spoke on the phone about music) and by doing that incorporating some of their style in his own music is not highly unlikely like climbing to Mount Everest.

But like I said it's all approximations and no one can say for sure.

 

[HIStoric]

Coming to next years releases, it would be nice if we could get more High Def material.. VHS footage is a let down, especially in this day & age. They need to put more work into these thing's, it's not acceptable. Especially when people are paying their own money to witness this archived footage.. they should use the best sources possible.

I really don't know why people go on about this anymore. They're obviously not going to release footage at VHS quality if they can help it - I mean seriously, who would? As I'm sure you know, Wembley had been in demand by fans for years and by the time it came to release Bad 25, the only complete version of that show was a VHS tape Michael had. You know, I bet they actually lost many potential sales by releasing a VHS quality concert but, since fans had been demanding it for years, they did so anyway.

I think it can go without saying that they're not going to release any more VHS quality productions unless it's in high demand and the only resource they have at the time. VHS quality footage in documentaries/behind the scenes is acceptable if there is no higher quality substitute though, of course.

 

[HIStory]

double post

 

[HIStory]

And there is no way to tell he wouldn't.

About Mount Everest.. bad example. I gave an example:

"They could have had David Guetta, Pitbull, Afrojack, Nero.. to do this songs their way - in that case those songs would become remixes - something MJ would never do, something that is not his style, never was and never would be - house/electro music."

But collaborating with Rodney Jerkins again, StarGate (with whom he planned to work with) and Timbaland (with whom he spoke on the phone about music) and by doing that incorporating some of their style in his own music is not highly unlikely like climbing to Mount Everest.

But like I said it's all approximations and no one can say for sure.

Rodney Jerkins in case of Xscape yes. The others... Talking with someone once on the phone once is not proof of MJ's intention of making Timbaland the main producer on his next album or even just working with him. There was hardly any connection between them (in fact, Timbaland said somewhat degrading things about MJ's music before). As for StarGate, yes they said MJ told them that he'd like to work with them but no one knows if he was serious about it or he was just being polite as usual. There was nothing serious in the talks. And even if he was serious, there's no way to tell if he would have done similar things with them as what ended up on Xscape. And yes, the new version of APWNN is actually like a remix of the old version whether you like to call it one or not.

But I'm done with this discussion about Xscape. It's off topic and you are way too defensive about that album. The only reason why you brought that album in the conversation was because the term "contemporarize" was mentioned.

 

[dam2040]

Any new MJ and I'm happy. I'm over the little details and squabbles people seem to have, of course some people have strong emotion regarding these releases but I just want more MJ that we haven't seen/heard.

 

[Galactus123]

Bad Tour Blu-Ray would be a great suprise.

 

[Zakk]

Bad Tour Blu-Ray would be a great suprise.

Maybe in about 10 years, yeah.. but they won't release another BAD Tour show so soon. When it eventually come's, i'd like it to be a European montage with no difference in microphone/pants!

 

[innuendo141]

But I'm done with this discussion about Xscape. It's off topic and you are way too defensive about that album. The only reason why you brought that album in the conversation was because the term "contemporarize" was mentioned.

Amen.

any sign of that Planet Michael game?????......

 

[AlwaysThere]

I don't mean to brew up any old arguments, but allow me to provide you with the definition of "remix":

A remix is a piece of media which has been altered from its original state by adding, removing, and/or changing pieces of the item.

Every single song on XSCAPE was altered in a significant way. They do not resemble their original counterparts whatsoever. L.A. Reid jumped in and called the process "contemporizing" because it sounded less offensive. But let's be honest here: everything on XSCAPE is a remix.

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

I don't mean to brew up any old arguments, but allow me to provide you with the definition of "remix":



Every single song on XSCAPE was altered in a significant way. They do not resemble their original counterparts whatsoever. L.A. Reid jumped in and called the process "contemporizing" because it sounded less offensive. But let's be honest here: everything on XSCAPE is a remix.

Plain & simple

 

[Zakk]

Let's stop talking about 'Xscape' okay, we can choose whatever part of the album we like, or we can create a mix.. personally i go with the original portion of the record, with the 2014 version of the title track as a bonus! Let's look forward to 2015, 'Off The Wall' celebration, and for once the 'Thriller' short film in HD.. *fingers crossed*

 

[OnirMJ]

But let's be honest here: everything on XSCAPE is a remix.

Let's be honest. It isn't.

 

[innuendo141]

Talking OTW releases, I would love to see any alternate versions/other demos than the one we already have of She's Out Of My Life, if there are any others.

 

[Galactus123]

Let's be honest. It isn't.

It kind of is. Compare the original and album versions. If you change how the original song sounds like it's a remix. They are remixes in the same way like how BOTDF Refugee Camp mix is remix.

 

[Zakk]

It kind of is.

Read that in Russell's voice from 'Rules Of Engagement'

 

[OnirMJ]

It kind of is. Compare the original and album versions. If you change how the original song sounds like it's a remix. They are remixes in the same way like how BOTDF Refugee Camp mix is remix.

I disagree. You can be happy that you even had the opportunity to hear the original versions. They didn't have to to that. Those songs were unfinished! Some were in their very early stages of production (Slave To The Rhythm, Chicago). Love Never Felt So Good is a demo recording! You can not compare that to completely finished and released songs from HIStory album!

The are not remixes. They are [Xscape] album versions, finished (or "contemporized") versions of unfinished songs with incomplete production and LNFSG demo.

You can belittle them as much as you want by calling them remixes, but that changes nothing.
And please go listen to BOTDF remixes. They sound like a remixes because they are remixes. House/Dance Club remixes. Xscape album sounds like something that is follow up to Invincible. Something fresh, of course with its producers flavours and signature sounds, but with Michael's touch. Michael often incorporated producers styles in his music (Teddy Riley on Dangerous, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis on HIStory, Rodney Jerkins on Invincible, Bill Bottrell on Give In To Me & Black Or White...). Again I'm not saying (no one is!) that this is how MJ's new album would sound like in 2014 but as an approximation it sounds damn good and nothing like a remix.

 

[Galactus123]

I disagree. You can be happy that you even had the opportunity to hear the original versions. They didn't have to to that. Those songs were unfinished! Some were in their very early stages of production (Slave To The Rhythm, Chicago). Love Never Felt So Good is a demo recording! You can not compare that to completely finished and released songs from HIStory album!

The are not remixes. They are [Xscape] album versions, finished (or "contemporized") versions of unfinished songs with incomplete production and LNFSG demo.

You can belittle them as much as you want by calling them remixes, but that changes nothing.
And please go listen to BOTDF remixes. They sound like a remixes because they are remixes. House/Dance Club remixes. Xscape album sounds like something that is follow up to Invincible. Something fresh, of course with its producers flavours and signature sounds, but with Michael's touch. Michael often incorporated producers styles in his music (Teddy Riley on Dangerous, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis on HIStory, Rodney Jerkins on Invincible, Bill Bottrell on Give In To Me & Black Or White...). Again I'm not saying (no one is!) that this is how MJ's new album would sound like in 2014 but as an approximation it sounds damn good and nothing like a remix.

I don't belittle them. I think the songs on Xscape album are good and some are even better than the original versions like Chicago and Love Never Felt So Good. I think they are remixes because they changed the original song that Michael did. For example acoustic guitar was used in the original A Place With No Name but they did it in completely different way in the new version. They didn't need to do that. Changes like that make them remixes in my opinion. And saying that they are remixes doesn't mean that they are bad.

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

I disagree. You can be happy that you even had the opportunity to hear the original versions. They didn't have to to that. Those songs were unfinished! Some were in their very early stages of production (Slave To The Rhythm, Chicago). Love Never Felt So Good is a demo recording! You can not compare that to completely finished and released songs from HIStory album!

The are not remixes. They are [Xscape] album versions, finished (or "contemporized") versions of unfinished songs with incomplete production and LNFSG demo.

You can belittle them as much as you want by calling them remixes, but that changes nothing.
And please go listen to BOTDF remixes. They sound like a remixes because they are remixes. House/Dance Club remixes. Xscape album sounds like something that is follow up to Invincible. Something fresh, of course with its producers flavours and signature sounds, but with Michael's touch. Michael often incorporated producers styles in his music (Teddy Riley on Dangerous, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis on HIStory, Rodney Jerkins on Invincible, Bill Bottrell on Give In To Me & Black Or White...). Again I'm not saying (no one is!) that this is how MJ's new album would sound like in 2014 but as an approximation it sounds damn good and nothing like a remix.

You really have a hard time understanding the simple concept of a remix huh?

 

[AlwaysThere]

The are not remixes. They are [Xscape] album versions, finished (or "contemporized") versions of unfinished songs with incomplete production and LNFSG demo.

Is it that hard to understand what a remix is? Once again:

A remix is a piece of media which has been altered from its original state by adding, removing, and/or changing pieces of the item.

Please read the bolded/underlined/italicized portion of the above quote. Read it until you can recite it from memory. Done? Alright, great.

You don't seem to grasp the concept though. A song doesn't need to be transitioned into house/dance club music to be considered a remix. As the definition above once again outlines, it simply has to be altered from its original state...as every single song on XSCAPE was.

In the case of the Blood on the Dance Floor tracks, this is what happened: producers were called in and given the multitrack stems of various songs Michael recorded. Those producers were given free reign to make their own version of the song, often without consulting to the original recording. These new versions, called REMIXES, were then included on the album.

In the case of the XSCAPE tracks, this is what happened: producers were called in and given the multitrack stems of various songs Michael recorded. Those producers were given free reign to make their own version...wait...this seems familiar. Why? BECAUSE IT IS. IT'S THE SAME THING.

We aren't insulting the songs by referring to them as remixes; I've already stated on numerous threads that I find the modern versions of Love Never Felt So Good/A Place With No Name/Chicago/Xscape to absolutely destroy the originals. But you need to grasp the fact that they are remixes. Not "reimaginings," not "contemporizations," just flat-out remixes.

If you can't grasp that at this point, I just don't know.