Did MJ Find Love In The Dark (continued)

[Lisha]

...they say "the butler", they don't say, James Bradstock Jernigan

:lol: Just laughing at the very English sounding name you came up with for the butler just like one you'd find in an Agatha Christie novel. haha. How'd you do that so well?



Okay, I apologize for all these names I threw out there when I was misunderstanding what you were after. I see now, though. But in this case we don't have any butlers or maids or Miss Scarletts or Colonel Mustards or the cook :chef: or a groundsman...

Don't we just have a bunch of chicks?

So we should maybe label them chick A, chick B, chick C, etc; and from what I can tell, we are gonna run out of letters. MJ was apparently one busy guy. 26 letters may not cover it. h34r:

He is not imo capable of living any other lifestyle except that of having everything he could ever need or want in his world the way I see it.

What do you mean exactly by this, SoS?

Ape, I agree with so much of what you said in your post regarding how it doesn't seem to make much sense if someone asked God for a love so divine that they would then suddenly decide to go ahead and accept a relationship with someone that they clearly know is not the love so divine they asked God for. Why would Michael do that? A casual relationship maybe, to fill time with and enjoy, but for him to be "out there" somewhere today, married to someone who he knows is not "the one," because God showed him "the one" clearly at some point, seems a little hard to believe. I think that's because we see him as such a man of conviction. But life doesn't always turn out like we plan and there are always unexpected twists and turns.
Loneliness, and lack of true companionship, is such a hard thing to live with though.

The waiting game is so hard, but when you look at the individuals of faith in the Bible, so many of them had to wait and wait. I don't know how they did it...how they would stay focused and not give up on God's promises to them. They must have had a special dose of God's grace. Maybe if any of us are waiting on a personal promise of God's to us to be fulfilled, we might do well to ask Him for some of that kind of grace to sustain us during the "long wait."

Or, like SoS is saying here,

...theory of him having 'found' her...

Then maybe he is out there somewhere with the LITD girl and not a 3D girl afterall. Or SoS could be meaning that he "found her" (the LITD girl) but still, even still, has not been able to connect with her. It just seems to me that MJ is so careful in keeping things private and protecting his business and especially when it comes to his romantic life, that maybe if he is not wanting to be found "publicly" it makes it all the more tricky to connect with "her". And do you think he really, really knows without a doubt that he can trust her? I mean, if he contacted her, in her complete excitement would she either accidently or unthinkingly "spill the beans" and cause him some problems? Does he know her that well?

Maybe it s kind of like astrology, maybe there's some germ of truth to something you read but it is whatever it is.

I think this thread is like this. Maybe once in awhile we touch on some truth, but there is probably only a small portion of it here and there as we thread our way through the thread amongst all our speculation and commentary and silliness. Even the absurd, maybe. But it's fun and yes, it's entertainment.

Thanks for posting, SoS, even though it sounds like you had some challenges. Thanks for pushing through.

Nice theory, MP! I'm gonna post the lyrics, mainly to help refresh my memory, but maybe others need a refresher, too.

"Heaven Can Wait"

<!-- start of lyrics -->[CHORUS]
Tell the angels no, I don&#8217;t wanna leave my baby alone
I don&#8217;t want nobody else to hold you
That&#8217;s a chance I&#8217;ll take
Baby I&#8217;ll stay, Heaven can wait
No, if the angels took me from this earth
I would tell them bring me back to her
It&#8217;s a chance I&#8217;ll take, maybe I&#8217;ll stay
Heaven can wait

You&#8217;re beautiful
Each moment spent with you is simply wonderful
This love I have for you girl it&#8217;s incredible
And I don&#8217;t know what I&#8217;d do, if I can&#8217;t be with you
The world could not go on so every night I pray
If the Lord should come for me before I wake
I wouldn&#8217;t wanna go if I can&#8217;t see your face, can&#8217;t hold you close
What good would Heaven be
If the angels came for me I&#8217;d tell them no

[CHORUS]

Unthinkable
Me sitting up in the clouds and you are all alone
The time might come around when you&#8217;d be moving on
I&#8217;d turn it all around and try to get back down to my baby girl
Can&#8217;t stand to see nobody kissing, touching her
Couldn&#8217;t take nobody loving you the way we were
What good would Heaven be
If the angels come for me I&#8217;d tell them no

[CHORUS]

Oh no, can&#8217;t be without my baby
Won&#8217;t go, without her I&#8217;d go crazy
Oh no, guess Heaven will be waiting
Ooh
Oh no, can&#8217;t be without my baby
Won&#8217;t go, without her I&#8217;d go crazy
Oh no, guess Heaven will be waiting
Ooh

[CHORUS]

Just leave us alone, leave us alone
Please leave us alone



Wow, the last lines here. Are we being told to leave them alone as they are out there in hiding somewhere finally able to live (and love) in peace?

(Hey, btw, didn't Moddie mention a midget being in one of her dreams?)

If I remember correctly, Moddie had a dream where at one point the LITD girl was walking with a man who MOddie described as "small" and the LITD girl seemed uncomfortable while walking and talking with him. At the time, I took it not literally, meaning his size, but that he was a "small", maybe foolish and petty, man, especially in contrast to MJ. But it could mean that she was uncomfortable with him because he was shrewd and untrustworthy, maybe even with evil intent. Moddie's mention of it was brief and did not go into much detail. So maybe you have a point there, and a correlation.

EDIT: Ape...so no more fancy nails, huh? You had a enough of that! (I personally have never had fake nails so I can imagine how I would find them uncomfortable somehow for me, too)

I feel if there's ever been anything actually missing from his life he would replace it. Maybe it isn't that simple but I certainly echo anyone's feelings about that what u said Ape but there are also, so very many ways that any given matter can actually be,when details of a situation reveal the truth.

This here, SoS, where you further respond to Ape...it seems like you think MJ could "replace" the LITD girl with another if he felt a "mate kind of love" was missing from his life. I think he did do that when he married in his thirties, but he seemed so wise and well-seasoned with understanding when he reached his fifties, and I dunno. It makes me think about Song of Songs and how Solomon worded what I view the most precious and valued, and seclusive, kind of love one can have for a woman, or a man if reversed, and that is when the "beloved" says...

the one my heart loves

I just don't think that can be replaced, even by the King of Pop who had 100% everything. No one should be able to bump that God given kind of romantic love out of the way...it's just...there, and there to stay. It's worth waiting for, and the pull would remain strong towards it. Or am I being too romantic in my thinking, especially for one who doesn't consider herself all that romantic?

<!-- end of lyrics -->

 

[turthlili]

******

 

[Lisha]

Do you mean, turthlili, that it is not realistic to expect MJ to wait for the one he initially felt God told him was for him, because he is only human and cannot be expected to love "her" endlessly and unconditionally like that? So you think it is all right to let him off the hook and love someone new to replace her?

Or are you simply saying they need to love each other equally and both should love each other as close to unconditionally as possible?

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. But I think if I understood, I'd really like what you are saying! Please be patient with me for not understanding right off. :blush:

 

[turthlili]

Or are you simply saying they need to love each other equally and both should love each other as close to unconditionally as possible?
:

yes. that's my point.
when pepople get high position.like MJ. (you know there must be millions girls out there waiting for him)
they would think what kind of girl/person deserve to me?
but we are all nomal human being. no one is perfect.
when you ask for a person love you unconditonal , i think you should also love him/her unconditional.
when you ask for other's respect, you should show the respect to other.
not checking everything, make sure everything 100%.(that make your relationship like a deal/ business)
in our life , no one did/ do/ will do everything right ,no wrong.

ok, maybe the MJ in the heaven will check everything right.
just the theory.

i think people/fans give MJ many love unconditional.
i also think michael would love his fans always,including the LITD, unconditional.
maybe he didn't connect with her,not be with her, had his reasons. who knows.

ps:Lisha i like your posts sometimes interesting.and ape,meddi..., allformj,...(i couldn't name them all)ideas are also interesting .
even you don't have the physical evidence, you could show so many things.
how attractive~

 

[Lisha]

Thank you for clarifying! And after reading through your words carefully here, I can see from what you say that you have lived life long enough to be an observing individual and to have become quite wise. For example, so true no one is perfect and no one should be expected to be perfect. That is so important to remember in relationships, huh?

And thanks for liking our posts! Yes, we certainly don't have much physical evidence. :lol: But it JUST doesn't stop us!!

Was it Shabuya that used to describe this thread as the "little engine who could?" We do keep tryin' to make this thing work out for MJ and his LITD girl...don't we? Maybe we've become a little too tenacious on the subject. haha.

Thanks again for your input, Turthlili! :flowers:

Has AllForMJ found herself back in the situation of having difficulty getting on the site? I wonder what's going on for her? :scratch:


Oh, SoS, so you are thinking the LITD girl has primarily been just a muse, or an occasional inspiration for a song or two. And even then, the lyrics might not be directly about her, but she is helping with a general concept or she becomes part of a collaboration of ideas he has about girls that he turns to when he wants to write a love song?

But you still think the two songs that brought forth this thread, Someone in the Dark and The Way You Love Me are about her directly?

 

[SoS]

^ regarding the first parts of your paragraph, I'll say, basically....and regarding the first u asked about, no, just reminding us we are dealing with a man who in many of our minds (keeping in mind that of course we all see him differently) is a person who seems to (many of us) to have kept in the forefront of his intentions about his life that thing called 'balance'. I don't know about uall, but I get (and have always gotten) the feeling that 'balance' is very important to him and if we agree on that then maybe we can agree that he'd have that somehow and that is all I'm sayin

How did u come by that particular scripture from Song of Songs?

Your last line @ me, I don't see why u are asking me that... what gives u the idea that I think that about those two songs vs any otehrs?

 

[Lisha]

"Iashl"? That doesn't quite sound American to me...hmmm. Where would be the origin of that name do you think? An 'h' and an 'el" together like that...

But I do agree with your impression that MJ would be after maintaining a balanced life. I think that seems true. And that is also wisdom, and something we should all strive for. I was just asking the Lord in my quiet time about a half hour ago, interestingly enough, to give me more balance in a certain area that I am struggling with.

That scripture in Song of Songs the Lord led me to awhile back when He was showing me something (when I asked Him about it) about how one would know if what they are feeling is real and true or not (regarding what would seem to be a romantic kind of love for the opposite sex). And I felt He was indicating to me that if the love in one's heart passes this test...that it is not a love in one's mind, or of a fanciful idea, or changable, or shallow, or lustful, etc., but instead is as pure and uncomplicated as possible, while having a place of constancy in the heart, in a place where no one else can now enter...for that place is securely taken by "one"...

then and only then would that love represent, "the one my heart loves."

It is not a shallow or fleeting kind of love, obviously.

Favoritetune mentioned that guys are capable of having relationships with different nice, attractive and fun gals, but it isn't necessarily going all that deep. It seems the guy's heart could actually be pointed somewhere else.

I would think if there was a woman a man felt this way about: "she's the one my heart loves," then his level of love for any other woman would not be able to match it. And I would like to think that this kind of love is one that God firmly places in one's heart for them to experience and enjoy and be thankful to Him for. It's a gift. I guess I think that it's from God because it is in the book in the Bible which is an allegory to how Christ loves His bride, the Church, and we know that His love for us is not shallow but constant and pure, and nothing can separate us from it. We who know God, together, figuratively have become His bride, the "one His heart loves." God's kind of love is never ending.

So even if the man or the woman somehow find themselves in relationships with other people, their heart knows who they truly love and it's not going anywhere anytime soon.

Anyway, I hope that answers your question...maybe sort of...SoS?

About those two songs, SITD, and TWYLM, I thought you were in agreement all along with the way they are connected to the premise of this thread and felt the LITD girl has been around the whole time from when the first song came out to when the next song came out, (and after) and, that they were both about "her." No? But now from recent posts I'm thinking you don't think very many songs/lyrics are actually directly about "her," but maybe only a couple, and most songs are switching from this girl to that and could even just be talking about a generic girl. No?

 

[Ashtanga]

 

[SoS]

^ ROTFL @ Ash's gif

:brow: Do you all have that "toolbar thingy" on the left side going up your screen??

Lisha thanks for your response to those queries and also I was wanting to quote where you point out the lyric from Tell Me I'm Not Dreaming from Jermaine's album. What made you choose the lyric, "tell me this is real, tell me how you feel, say its what we both believe in" ... ?

About the scripture, you mention that if the love passes "this" test ... and so my question for you is, what is the THIS you speak of? Do you mean the test of weighing the love affair against the spiritual properties of that scripture to see how it feels? The versions I've always seen that verse in, use the word, soul. Heart is an interesting way to see it written, thanks.

It seems the conversation is sort of 'hung up' or somewhat 'paused' at this thought which I mentioned a couple of pages back when I wrote:

On the one hand it could look sort of like a "who-dun-it" of romance when u look at the cast of players, being the women who were made visible one of which could be "the one" he would be with now if that theory were true -

After comments (stimulating a little more thought), I guess I would have to say I don't know how that would really fit. I guess since we're dealing with distringuishing the 'real' from the 'fiction', it seemed like a good idea at the time. I pretty much try to stick with obvserving the song lyrics 'out loud' by posting here and I guess the question would ultimately be, how much of MJ's real life would something of this nature (things he wrote from his spirit or what-have-u, however u say it) how would his real life be impacted by it.

I don't know maybe its the fact that ever since I was a kid (when the J5 were also kids) I've always kind of tried to imagine what life could really be like for Michael and all of them really because life showed me very early on that life can easily be one thing outwardly and be quite another inwardly. Everybody knows that nobody can be defined by their photo shoots as that kind of thing could be interepreted forever by each person who sees it, nor can anyone be defined by much of anything they say in the public eye and we know when it comes to songs it certaintly would be a tricky thing to discover what of it/them should be taken seriously or what have u. Sorry if it sounds like a trust issue but er hahahaha its just the way it is sometimes in mass communication with a little marketing tossed in and marketing of the largest selling song artist in the world. I mean there is that side of it that can't just be utterly ignored. We here are fans but we have to know there is an other side that MJ is always dealing with called other aspects of life. Once the camera is off, or the words have been printed or the whatever has been done whatever with, everybody goes home. So I guess there's a little of that type of thinking filtered in there too.

Back to the lyrics (and speaking of unconditional love and YANA) In YANA that line says, "but first I need ... " (your hand) so just thought I'd toss that in. I don't know if its what u could call 'conditional' love but does seem to be a 'condition' that MJ does require/need in order to have things be for him, if we're to listen to the lyrics to get the clues as we have been.

Time to get up already. I hope I"ve gotten the conversation unstuck? :errm:

BBsoon

:brow: maaaaan y'all sure do let it get awful quiet in here

*listening to the sound of birds chirping*

^ *laughs at your edit note* Well, see there, ya got that frustration communicated anyway!

"Iashl"? That doesn't quite sound American to me...hmmm. Where would be the origin of that name do you think? An 'h' and an 'el" together like that...

And, okay then, I'm sooooo good at asking self-explanatory questions. *sigh*

But I do agree with your impression that MJ would be after maintaining a balanced life. I think that seems true. And that is also wisdom, and something we should all strive for. I was just asking the Lord in my quiet time about a half hour ago, interestingly enough, to give me more balance in a certain area that I am struggling with.

That scripture in Song of Songs the Lord led me to awhile back when He was showing me something (when I asked Him about it) about how one would know if what they are feeling is real and true or not (regarding what would seem to be a romantic kind of love for the opposite sex). And I felt He was indicating to me that if the love in one's heart passes this test...that it is not a love in one's mind, or of a fanciful idea, or changable, or shallow, or lustful, etc., but instead is as pure and uncomplicated as possible, while having a place of constancy in the heart, in a place where no one else can now enter...for that place is securely taken by "one"...

then and only then would that love represent, "the one my heart loves."

It is not a shallow or fleeting kind of love, obviously.

Favoritetune mentioned that guys are capable of having relationships with different nice, attractive and fun gals, but it isn't necessarily going all that deep. It seems the guy's heart could actually be pointed somewhere else.

I would think if there was a woman a man felt this way about: "she's the one my heart loves," then his level of love for any other woman would not be able to match it. And I would like to think that this kind of love is one that God firmly places in one's heart for them to experience and enjoy and be thankful to Him for. It's a gift. I guess I think that it's from God because it is in the book in the Bible which is an allegory to how Christ loves His bride, the Church, and we know that His love for us is not shallow but constant and pure, and nothing can separate us from it. We who know God, together, figuratively have become His bride, the "one His heart loves." God's kind of love is never ending.

So even if the man or the woman somehow find themselves in relationships with other people, their heart knows who they truly love and it's not going anywhere anytime soon.

Anyway, I hope that answers your question...maybe sort of...SoS?

About those two songs, SITD, and TWYLM, I thought you were in agreement all along with the way they are connected to the premise of this thread and felt the LITD girl has been around the whole time from when the first song came out to when the next song came out, (and after) and, that they were both about "her." No? But now from recent posts I'm thinking you don't think very many songs/lyrics are actually directly about "her," but maybe only a couple, and most songs are switching from this girl to that and could even just be talking about a generic girl. No?

Are you going to tell me the answer to my long paragraph here is self-explanatory? You'll be being brave if you do!!!!

 

[Lisha]

:brow: Do you all have that "toolbar thingy" on the left side going up your screen??

No, I don't. Wow, that sounds a bit annoying. I wonder why you are seeing that?

And SoS, your posts are always so meaty and stimulating. See, this is why we miss your posts. Thanks for posting!

Lisha thanks for your response to those queries and also I was wanting to quote where you point out the lyric from Tell Me I'm Not Dreaming from Jermaine's album. What made you choose the lyric, "tell me this is real, tell me how you feel, say its what we both believe in" ... ?

It has been brought up in here before, maybe even by you. You are always good at finding these nuggets in songs that are not so well known. I hadn't heard of the song, Tell Me I'm Not Dreaming, until it was first mentioned in here. That song really fits in great with the "dream girl" theory and his maybe seing her in his dreams. That particular line, though, to me, really matches the "spiritual connection" theory, where he keeps "sensing her" in his spirit and hears her even. With that being their only way of connection, it would bring doubt at times, I should think, and make them wonder if they are in "it" alone.

So the question being asked, "Tell me this is real, tell me how you feel, say it's what we both believe in" is like either him or "her" seeking to know with certainy that they really do have a special soul-partner relationship going on, and have not been just imagining it. Or, one of them at times starts to wonder if the other has "given up" on it, leaving them alone as the only one who is still holding on and believing God will yet bring them together, for real.

About the scripture, you mention that if the love passes "this" test ... and so my question for you is, what is the THIS you speak of? Do you mean the test of weighing the love affair against the spiritual properties of that scripture to see how it feels? The versions I've always seen that verse in, use the word, soul. Heart is an interesting way to see it written, thanks.

The Bible I currently use is a big ol' thick NIV study Bible. I also own a comparative study Bible which compares the texts of about four different versions. But here is that same scripture (Song of Songs 3:1) using several versions:

~ (NIV) New International Version:

All night long on my bed I looked for the one my heart loves...

~ (NAS) New American Standard:

On my bed night after night I sought him whom my soul loves...

~ (NKJV) New King James Vesion:

By night on my bed I sought the one I love...

~ (KJ's) King James:

By night on my bed I sought him whom my soul loveth...

~ (JW's) New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures:

On my bed during the nights I have sought the one whom my soul has loved...

~ Amplified:

In the night I dreamed that I sought for the one whom I love...


You are right that quite a few have translated the original text for that word as "soul." That word would be "Nephesh." Nephesh is translated in several ways, because it doesn't have a direct, corresponding word to it, and 15 times in the Bible it is translated as "heart," but many more times as "soul."

The meaning of Nephesh's root word is either "to breathe" or "life; vital breath." (I've found the above info, btw, online at a couple of places)

So, back to Solomon's verses,

if the Beloved, in S.O.S. (hey, SoS, there are your same initials!), loves her lover with such a love that it feels like it's a vital breath for her, then that is a powerful love. Maybe this intense love would bypass one's heart and go straight to the soul. It seems like the Beloved is only at peace when she knows that all is well with her and her lover. When he is not with her and she cannot find him, it's like she is gasping for breath.

It seems the conversation is sort of 'hung up' or somewhat 'paused' at this thought which I mentioned a couple of pages back when I wrote:

On the one hand it could look sort of like a "who-dun-it" of romance when u look at the cast of players, being the women who were made visible one of which could be "the one" he would be with now if that theory were true -

After comments (stimulating a little more thought), I guess I would have to say I don't know how that would really fit.

It could be very well true; it's not that it is unbelievable, but seems inconsistent with the idea that he had asked God for a Love so Divine and then decides to just be with a woman who he knows is not "that love," but is okay with it anyway. :scratch:

I guess since we're dealing with distringuishing the 'real' from the 'fiction', it seemed like a good idea at the time. I pretty much try to stick with obvserving the song lyrics 'out loud' by posting here and I guess the question would ultimately be, how much of MJ's real life would something of this nature (things he wrote from his spirit or what-have-u, however u say it) how would his real life be impacted by it.

Good point. I like what you discuss next:

I don't know maybe its the fact that ever since I was a kid (when the J5 were also kids) I've always kind of tried to imagine what life could really be like for Michael and all of them really because life showed me very early on that life can easily be one thing outwardly and be quite another inwardly. Everybody knows that nobody can be defined by their photo shoots as that kind of thing could be interepreted forever by each person who sees it, nor can anyone be defined by much of anything they say in the public eye and we know when it comes to songs it certaintly would be a tricky thing to discover what of it/them should be taken seriously or what have u. Sorry if it sounds like a trust issue but er hahahaha its just the way it is sometimes in mass communication with a little marketing tossed in and marketing of the largest selling song artist in the world. I mean there is that side of it that can't just be utterly ignored. We here are fans but we have to know there is an other side that MJ is always dealing with called other aspects of life. Once the camera is off, or the words have been printed or the whatever has been done whatever with, everybody goes home. So I guess there's a little of that type of thinking filtered in there too.

Yes, MJ, or even others close to him answering questions about his love life would not necessarily give answers that fully explain what is truly going on. That being either from learning how to side-step, or only given a brief moment to answer... and that is not enough time to paint a full picture so it's just a "bit" given, or whatever. Speaking in front of others in public when you hope to be careful about the subject can make one guarded and do what they can on the spot to satisfy, but not give away the true story.

It makes me think of that scene in the film, Notting Hill, where the guy(Hugh Grant) is visiting on the set of the girl he loves, who is an actress. She doesn't realize that a tech guy, to help out, offers her guy a head device that will enable him to hear the dialogue of the scene when it takes place between her and the actor (who are quite a long distance away). Before the shoot the actor asks her what she feels about Hugh Grant's character and she answes in such a way that gives Hugh's character, since he can hear the whole thing, a "wake up call" Here he thought she was caring for him, but her words to this actor told him JUST the opposite. But the actress was answering in a way she thought was the most wise at that moment, just to give that guy an answer and lead him off the trail. She wanted to protect the situation because she really, really did care about Hugh's character.

Maybe if MJ ever eavesdropped on the LITD girl somewhere and she was asked her thoughts on Michael Jackson, the LITD girl would downplay it so no one would pick up on the truth of her feelings. She'd want to protect the very private situation she was experiencing with MJ though their "spiritual connection," wouldn't you think? I would hope he'd consider what she'd say before others carefully, like any of us should consider carefully what all he said publically or in song lyrics, and understand there would be very possibly more to it...just like you are saying SoS.

Cute how you said, "Sorry if it sounds like a trust issue..." haha. But I think you are right; we can't go completely by what we've heard.

This sounds like something Ash would say, but nobody can really know what is going on until they have the person with them and are talking with them face to face. Otherwise, there is uncertainty. And that is what the Beloved is experiencing when she can't reach her Lover and know from him face to face that all is well.

Back to the lyrics (and speaking of unconditional love and YANA) In YANA that line says, "but first I need ... " (your hand) so just thought I'd toss that in. I don't know if its what u could call 'conditional' love but does seem to be a 'condition' that MJ does require/need in order to have things be for him, if we're to listen to the lyrics to get the clues as we have been.

This is interesting. Is he needing the hand (her hand) from her? Or from someone else? The Old-Fashioned tradition was for the man to ask the girl's father for her hand in marriage. And at the wedding the father walks the girl down the aisle and hands her (and her hand) to the groom, who takes her hand and guides her next to him so they stand side be side to be joined together in holy matrimony.

If the LITD considers her foremost father to be her Heavenly Father, then He is the one who is in the place to give her hand to MJ. If it is to be a Love so Divine, no other should take that place. She may good and well wish to (in fact, longs to) extend her hand to him, but wisdom would cause her to wait on her Father God.

So it might be a "condition" for their life together to begin ("then forever can begin"), but not an indication of his putting a condition on her.

:brow: maaaaan y'all sure do let it get awful quiet in here

*listening to the sound of birds chirping*

It really can get quiet. Perhaps it is because some are waiting for AllForMJ and are disappointed she hasn't been able to come back as of yet. But I enjoy chatting with you, SoS, in the meantime, and anyone else who wants to discuss these things you've been bringing up. You definitely get me thinkin'. :hug:

 

[SoS]

Edit: Hahaha everytime I log back in my page automatically goes to your (Lshia's) post with emoticon with the little chef hat as you are saying there is not one that fits this description. rotfl!

Ah! Thanks for reminding me of songs I dug up for analyses. Good insights about the 'hand' aspect also. Also something you said made me realize that if we are looking at certain people still being around and living out their "dream" for a "normal" life that they would be with the very LITD as we type (?), and I'm trying to recall how we managed to keep other possibilities open because I think that other idea (that he found and is with the LITD) would pretty much have ended the thread but I don't (do you) recall how it has been continuing?

Going back a moment to the spiritual connection and the bible and where u all were trying to asertain whether any such things had ever happened in the bible - I was just feeling to say that perhaps because of the bible being God's way of communicating His perfect will and God being only Spirit, it would be tricky to look for some "signs" of romance between a man and a woman because I'm not feeling that at the forefront of God's purpose lies romance in and of itself at all. I feel its possible that those rare accounts where it occurs, it is a relationship directly related to His dvine purpose and since it originates from his amazing Spirit it culminates in what appears to the human as being "romance" but because God is so mystical so that many things appear to have that "romance quality" when they are simply things that are real in the Spirit realm and it seems that when it gets translated by a human it gets interpreted.

Such as with the Song of Songs for instance which as you were pointing out, is amazingly not a 'romance' story but a prophecy about Christ and the church according to many biblical commentaries but who would take any other tack than romantic let's face it. So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that if two people have a 'spiritual connection' then I'm guessing that probably does not originate with an intention of "romance" but to onlookers perhaps a spiritual exchange between two people of the opposite gender could appear to be quite "cute" or quite "romantic" when its just a spiritual connection. I dunno, just another way of looking at it, maybe although someone else may have already mentioned this

p.s. I don't feel we have to resort to identifying people rather than to stick to trying to ascertain our story lines

 

[Lisha]

Lshia? Come on, you're not even tryin' now. Geeesh. *rolls eyes*

....if we are looking at certain people still being around and living out their "dream" for a "normal" life that they would be with the very LITD as we type (?), and I'm trying to recall how we managed to keep other possibilities open because I think that other idea (that he found and is with the LITD) would pretty much have ended the thread but I don't (do you) recall how it has been continuing?

At the moment it doesn't really seem much like it is continuing. And I was wondering if partially it had to do with what your added disclaimer here is about:

I hope no one will take that line of 'story telling' as disrespectful to anyone in the Jackson family or friends who knows otherwise to be true in anything we post. If we are going to 'go here' as we have agreed is safe, we still must be quite careful.

This latest theory is a tricky and sensitive one. As far as finding MJ song lyrics to stay in line with it, we'd have trouble post June 25, 2009...maybe "a place with no name" could be used and I think it was used briefly when this subject first was brought up. Or that song just posted "Take Me Away" but that was not written by MJ. As far as pre June 25, 2009...well, MP has brought up Heaven Can Wait, and I think the song, Xscape, could work, with such lyrics as:

I've got to, find a place,
So I won't hide away

Xscape, got to get away from a system lose in the world
today
Xscape, the pressure that I face from relationships
that go away
Xscape, the man with the pen that writes the lies that
hassle this man
Xscape, I do what I wanna cause I gotta face nobody but
me

(Girl)
Sometimes I feel like
I've gotta get away

Other than that, can anyone think of songs that would stay with what SoS is suggesting here:

Just as a reminder, the LITD theory came from Michael's music itself. Any analysis of the new 'theory' we have agreed to explore should at least be examined through the "filter" of the music. jmho :flowers:

This here,

I feel its possible that those rare accounts where it occurs, it is a relationship directly related to His divine purpose and since it originates from his amazing Spirit it culminates in what appears to the human as being "romance" but because God is so mystical so that many things appear to have that "romance quality" when they are simply things that are real in the Spirit realm and it seems that when it gets translated by a human it gets interpreted.

I think this is right on. Good insight. I kind of have a problem with Romance being in and of itself...being seen as the ulltimate culmination. I think it must be lovely in a relationship, but I would hope (with God involved) there could be so much more to it...a deeper purpose for bringing two people together.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that if two people have a 'spiritual connection' then I'm guessing that probably does not originate with an intention of "romance" but to onlookers perhaps a spiritual exchange between two people of the opposite gender could appear to be quite "cute" or quite "romantic" when its just a spiritual connection.

Well, I think why in here we have made this spiritual connection as a romantic thing is because from the beginning AllForMJ has highlighted lyrics from songs that talk of his romantic love and attraction for someone. I suppose the lyrics for Speechless could just be talking about a special, mystical, holy kind of spiritual connection between the two of them. But when you get to the lyrics of The Way You Love Me, then how can we not picture him talking about his having romantic feelings about the girl? He talks about holding hands, and kissing, and touching, and hugging, and moonlight. And several songs we've quoted in here show he was "likin what he was seeing" with some girl...like in Got the Hots, and Streetwalker, and The Way You Make Me Feel, and She Drives Me Wild, to name a few.

But one time, SoS, I think it was you that said this, it was brought up that initially MJ may have had that "kind" of attraction for the girl, but over time, the kind of love he had for her changed to something of more depth. So maybe it became more of a spiritual thing afterall, and so this would fit your phrasing of "when it's just a spiritual connection."

p.s. I don't feel we have to resort to identifying people rather than to stick to trying to ascertain our story lines

 

[8701girl]

I am so sorry guys for slacking off of this thread , i always try to but get so caught up with everything else that is going in :banghead:

 

[MysteriousPhoenix]

... And if we stick with what you are saying SoS, it would seem logical if he succeeded in blending into a normal life, then what would stop him now from being with "her"? And maybe nothing. Yeah, they might be. We haven't been able to come up sufficiently yet on our own with an idea on why they could be kept apart. Have you thought of anything yet, Ape?

Maybe he is on a mission from God? However, I have been thinking about this whole "mission from God" thing, and this is a difficult question for me to ask, but if he is doing something like that, how did he know for sure this was something God really wanted him to do?

I mean, sometimes I think we can get a little carried away and get ahead of God and sometimes misinterpret His will for our lives and such. I wonder if it was actaully God's intention and will for him to be united with his LITD, and thinking that he was the new savior of the world, he felt he had to take on some ridiculously impossible mission that God never intended for him to take on, and maybe by doing that he really threw everything off and now God has had to come up with some last minute plan "B" that will still work in the end due to the fact that God knows everything we are gonna do in advance anyway (including our mistakes) and probably accounts for it, but the "new" plan just isn't His perfect will.

 

[Lisha]

Maybe he is on a mission from God? However, I have been thinking about this whole "mission from God" thing, and this is a difficult question for me to ask, but if he is doing something like that, how did he know for sure this was something God really wanted him to do?

Wow, you ask some good questions here, MP! And it is interesting that what you bring up above and below is basically what the message was about at the church I was at yesterday morning. The pastor was talking about trying different things as a young man as far as figuring out what vocation he should have, and when he tried something that was not God's will something felt wrong inside...something didn't seem to fit. But when he finally gave a try to something that was God's will for him, he described it as his feeling a puzzle piece suddenly being placed and fitting perfectly inside a place in his heart. It felt so right. I was wondering if he would eventually say "it felt like home" because that is often how it feels for me if I go somewhere and there is a "fit" for me. Sure enough, he did use that analogy to bring the point "home". lol.

If we try having a relationship with someone, for an example, and it is not one that is in the Lord's will, I bet many of us have felt this nagging feeling something wasn't quite right, but perhaps ignore it anyway because we wish for it to work out. I always remember hearing older and wiser and experienced people saying that when you fall in love you with the right person, you'll just know. But how can one recognize it when they have yet to experience it...so we think maybe this what doesn't quite feel right, really is right but we are being picky, and unrealistic expecting it to be perfect. We make excuses. It is like we will only get to know in hindsight when it is really right...but that's not helpful!

I think we need to pay more attention to that little feeling deep inside our hearts when "something feels wrong" because I think from my experience now, and even what the pastor shared, that yes, something is not as it should be, and it is not God's will.

From my experience of what I've observed, when it is God's will for us, it is clear, but when it is not God's will, it is not as clear and we try to make it work. But if it is not clear, that probably means something...keep seeking God then for clarity.

I mean, sometimes I think we can get a little carried away and get ahead of God and sometimes misinterpret His will for our lives and such. I wonder if it was actaully God's intention and will for him to be united with his LITD, and thinking that he was the new savior of the world, he felt he had to take on some ridiculously impossible mission that God never intended for him to take on, and maybe by doing that he really threw everything off and now God has had to come up with some last minute plan "B" that will still work in the end due to the fact that God knows everything we are gonna do in advance anyway (including our mistakes) and probably accounts for it, but the "new" plan just isn't His perfect will.

The other thing discussed in the message was the happy reminder that God can fix our mistakes and does indeed have a plan B if we veered too far from plan A. So MP, you could have taken the mic yesterday and preached it, sister! :clapping:

Maybe because God gives us free will to make our own choices, His "perfect will" is the end result He's after and the way we get there is secondary, for He knows we will inevitably take wrong turns for He gave us free will and choice to decide what we do most of the time. But no matter what He will get us there, to His desired end result. So it might not be that big of a deal if we take a misstep, He can use it all in our growth in Him.

So if MJ made a misstep and heard God wrong, I can't believe he's too far off, especially with such a major decision, like blending in to have a normal life, and stop being Michael Jackson.

Consider how many adjustments he would be experiencing. MJ was always humble and didn't seem to have a big head about his celebrity, but being Michael Jackson did have some perks and did open doors for him, maybe even saved him from unpleasant situations for he might have immediate favor from those who admired him as that super star.

All that would be gone; no more leaning on his name, "Michael Jackson" and all that could mean at times to others. And that goes for opening doors in the area of philanthropy as well. Celebrities are very welcomed in that area. And if MJ went to an orphanage or children's hospital all he had to say is 'I'm Michael Jackson, can I come and visit and bless and donate, etc" and the fuss would be great for he was immediately known... "What an honor! Can you imagine, Michael Jackson coming here, to us!" How very welcome he'd be and all would be done to accommodate him.

But an everyday Joe, would not be received in the same way and the doors would not as easily open. He'd have to go through the normal, tedious redtape. MJ relied, even if he didn't think about it, on all his connections that he gathered all those years in the entertainment business. That came in handy, I am sure, many, many times. He knew so many people and it would take just a phone call. All that would be different.

Do you see that this would be a huge life changing decision that seems, to me, like God would stop if it wasn't His will. But also, you can see how much God could use this for further growth in Michael...Michael would learn things he never could in the way his life was set up as Michael Jackson. God could bring him into a whole new level of depth. And he already had a lot of it.

Maybe that's more important than romance.

If this were the case, I frankly can't imagine there being any woman who could have even close the same level of depth, of understanding, and wisdom and character, that MJ would have after experiencing both these worlds from his unique perspective. What woman could really be an appropriate match for him? Boggles the mind.

Even if he was out there somewhere and met a nice woman who is just everyday, like he always wanted probably, to fall in love the everyday way...just as an everyday man with a regular everyday woman like people do all over the world and have for centuries. But, thinking this through, he possiible couldn't have that, exactly like he would hope, for she wouldn't be able to relate to his other world, and/or what if he could never tell her who he really was, for we are talking as if he has a whole new identity, right? She couldn't be a true comfort to him in that area...not really. She wouldn't/couldn't understand...and having secrets between yourself and your mate is not good, especially one that large. So he would, I should think, still have to find someone who knew him both ways...before and after, so she could have a better chance at understanidng more about him, but...and this is the big BUT, still have the character to deal with it all.

MP, maybe he is not with "her" (the LITD girl if she exists and if we continue in this vein of this fantastical theory) because... things have not lined up yet and God is still getting her ready. But again, I'm having trouble picture any woman being suitable for a man such as this...not because of his talent, or past fame, but because of his vast life experience and how much depth this has brought him.

And if God would do this amazing "design" of this man's life that would bring him to such a depth of understanding, then MJ would have still quite the call on his life. It could be an enormous one...but maybe a more hidden one now, but very effective.

MP thanks so much for posting these thoughts! Man, heavy. :hug:

I miss Ape's wisdom and input.

And Hi, 8701girl! :ciao: So the forum is keeping ya busy, huh? No worries, come when the mood hits ya!

 

[Ashtanga]

​

^ ROTFL @ Ash's gif

:brow: Do you all have that "toolbar thingy" on the left side going up your screen??

Where? I'm not seeing it.

we can't go completely by what we've heard.

This sounds like something Ash would say, but nobody can really know what is going on until they have the person with them and are talking with them face to face. Otherwise, there is uncertainty. And that is what the Beloved is experiencing when she can't reach her Lover and know from him face to face that all is well.

Exactly!!!

 

[Ape]

I miss Ape's wisdom and input.

:hug: Thank you for thinking of me. I do have quite a bit to say on what you've said here and some other points others have mentioned. I've got to get ready for my rehearsals right away but once I get the chance I'll type something hopefully worth reading . Take care everyone!

 

[8701girl]

nd Hi, 8701girl!

So the forum is keeping ya busy, huh? No worries, come when the mood hits ya!

HI! :waving: yep it is lol

 

[Favoritetune]

Dang so many things I've read lately and wanted to comment about but forgive me cause I'm gonna limit myself to the most recent posts.

SOS you said

"it would be tricky to look for some "signs" of romance between a man and a woman because I'm not feeling that at the forefront of God's purpose lies romance in and of itself at all. I feel its possible that those rare accounts where it occurs, it is a relationship directly related to His dvine purpose and since it originates from his amazing Spirit it culminates in what appears to the human as being "romance" but because God is so mystical so that many things appear to have that "romance quality" when they are simply things that are real in the Spirit realm and it seems that when it gets translated by a human it gets interpreted.

"Such as with the Song of Songs for instance which as you were pointing out, is amazingly not a 'romance' story but a prophecy about Christ and the church according to many biblical commentaries but who would take any other tack than romantic let's face it. So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that if two people have a 'spiritual connection' then I'm guessing that probably does not originate with an intention of "romance" but to onlookers perhaps a spiritual exchange between two people of the opposite gender could appear to be quite "cute" or quite "romantic" when its just a spiritual connection. I dunno, just another way of looking at it, maybe although someone else may have already mentioned this "

there are some things i dont agree with you on. See God compares His relationship with mankind as that of husband and wife or should i say what a husband and wife relationship is suppose to be. It is faithful, romantic and loving. I think that is why the song of solomen is written in such a way, it's intense, deep, sensual and spiritual and yes it speaks of love between a man and a woman and Christ and the church intentionally.

God created love, male and female, husband and wife and some believe the human soul is comprised of half a persons full being as in the person they marry or should marry is the other half of them. some believe that is why God took the rib from adam and created eve cause she was a part of him. food for thought.

MP girl you went deep. I'm not sure who said anything about MJ being on a mission from God but i think i can answer your question. a scripture in the bible says my sheep know my voice and if MJ went on some mission i'm sure he'd know clearly God was guiding him before taking on a task.

you also said

"I mean, sometimes I think we can get a little carried away and get ahead of God and sometimes misinterpret His will for our lives and such. I wonder if it was actaully God's intention and will for him to be united with his LITD, and thinking that he was the new savior of the world, he felt he had to take on some ridiculously impossible mission that God never intended for him to take on, and maybe by doing that he really threw everything off and now God has had to come up with some last minute plan "B" that will still work in the end due to the fact that God knows everything we are gonna do in advance anyway (including our mistakes) and probably accounts for it, but the "new" plan just isn't His perfect will. "

if MJ took on as you say some "ridiculously impossible mission" only God could see him through and if he did so then it should be expected he'd have opposition and would seem like everything was thrown off like when the 3 guys in the bible got thrown in the fire, who would have expected that? they were faithful to God and men plotted against them and got them thrown in the fire but then the men who threw them in the fire were the ones to burn and when the king looked inside the fire he saw 4 3 men and one who appeared as the son of God. i think it's in our greatest tribulations that we see God show up so great that others can see Him too. we all know those 3 came out of that fire unharmed. the bible is full of stories like that so if MJ is on some mission he would have to know and love God to accept it and God never fails His people. there are times when things look bad though, times when we think evil is winning like with the 3 guys and the fire, or even Jesus dying on the cross but God moves in mysterious ways so what may seem like a set back when God is in the mix often has to do with Him allowing us to see how great He is. I recently heard about God calling gideon and sending him on a mission to fight this huge vast army and when Gideon could have had maybe thousands of men which still would have been less God took huge portions of them away in huge chunks before the battle. eventually gideon was down to like 300 men to fight thousands. well some could have thought things were wrong when gideon sent away a lot of soldiers and then sent away even more but he was following God as His prophet and it was all in God's plan. it's a great scripture if you get a chance read it.

If MJ has a litd why would you think God would not be so loving as to bring them together? abraham had a promise for a son and he was in his older years before God brought that into fruition so time is what God looks at as His timing. He does things when it's His time and doesn't care how old a person is cause He knows whats right and best. the biggest problem a lot of people have is losing faith in God's will and if you look at the life of job you'll see the people closest to you are often your biggest enemies in trying times instead of encouraging him they accused him, his wife told him to curse God and die but she was the one who wound up dying i think and God blessed job with a new life and a new wife and i bet He gave him one that was faithful to Him.

Hey Lisha

"if the Beloved, in S.O.S. (hey, SoS, there are your same initials!), loves her lover with such a love that it feels like it's a vital breath for her, then that is a powerful love. Maybe this intense love would bypass one's heart and go straight to the soul. It seems like the Beloved is only at peace when she knows that all is well with her and her lover. When he is not with her and she cannot find him, it's like she is gasping for breath."

well put, i imagine true love can be just like that

 

[MysteriousPhoenix]

Yeah, I'm sure if he could, he would encourage his "chiquitita." Or is her name Melissa? Oh, I dunno!

 

[Ape]

That's the second time you've mentioned Melissa. Is there something you'd like to tell us MP?

 

[MysteriousPhoenix]

That's the second time you've mentioned Melissa. Is there something you'd like to tell us MP?

Yeah, I'm thinking I ought to avoid posting songs with a first name in them. lol! Although ... I am kinda fond of the name "Chiquitita." In Spanish this means "little girl." You could still call a grown woman that. It would be considered a cute little term of endearment.

 

[Favoritetune]

Yeah, I'm sure if he could, he would encourage his "chiquitita." Or is her name Melissa? Oh, I dunno!

I'm sure if she's the faith filled lady that we've presumed her to be she's already encouraged and trusting God concerning MJ

 

[Lisha]

Yeah, I'm sure if he could, he would encourage his "chiquitita." Or is her name Melissa? Oh, I dunno!

MP, now, now, no direct names, please refer to her only by "Lola", her stage name, from now on.

I like these lines from this song, MP

Now I see you've broken a feather
I hope we can patch it up together

If MJ and his LITD girl (fantastical theory applied) are still not together, and like you say, "I"m sure if he could" then there isn't much encouragement going on. He might be having to rely on the Lord to keep "her" going and encouraged. And vice-versa.

FT, I'm gonna give you a big AMEN for that post of yours. You applied the word of God so well, with really excellent examples!

...God compares His relationship with mankind as that of husband and wife or should i say what a husband and wife relationship is suppose to be. It is faithful, romantic and loving. I think that is why the song of solomen is written in such a way, it's intense, deep, sensual and spiritual and yes it speaks of love between a man and a woman and Christ and the church intentionally.

Yeah, this whole thing about: are we just looking at it now as MJ and the LITD girl having nothing romantic involved but only something on a spiritual level...well, it affected my dreaming I think two nights ago. I'm going to say straight out that rarely, rarely do I have romantic, mushy, touchy(literally)-feely type dreams! But this dream I had would probably be the kind female MJ fans would all love to have. haha. But very unusual for me.

I remember Moddie being at the level in her dreaming where God would have her in her dream be representing others, not herself, and she had dreams with her that she shared in here, but she knew she was representing the LITD girl. So this maybe is what is going on here in my dream...I dunno. Dreams are so hard to figure out. I'm a prolific dreamer, by the way. I get so many, and so many are just plan confusing. :scratch:

Anyway, it starts off with a female MJ fan who was beautiful, very full-figured, any man would see her as whistle-bait. And she knew that Michael was going to be coming by a short distance from where were and she asked me if I would help her carry something too big and cumbersome fo her to manage alone. So she just sort of recruited me on the spot; I had nothing to do with her gift for MJ, which was a large, tall cake she had made with cake pops sticking out of the smaller top layer and pretty frosting; it was really creative. So I said I'd help her carry it, and she said, "Wait, should I put on another gold necklace, do I look alright? I want to look as pretty as possible for Michael." But even after I said, "You look fine with the one necklace," she went ahead anyway I put on a second, which was a simple gold chain with a charm. The charm was of the playboy logo. And I thought, she is that kind of attractive, over the top alluring, like a playboy bunny.

So anyway, we go over to where MJ is now coming and he has some fans coming at him, and the girl I'm helping is stressing to get over to him at just the right time. And then we both at the same moment lose our balance and the cake slides off what we are holding it on, and topples onto the ground. She just looks down at it mortified. And I see MJ coming upon us and I hurry to try to salvage something of the cake, so this heartbroken girl can give him something...so he can see how creative she was. So the top tier had not touched the ground, but was still resting on top of the rest of the mushed cake, so I took that, and I placed the cake pops back in position in it, and stood up to present that to MJ for her. MJ was now standing there looking down at her cake mushed up on the ground; he obviously immediately had figured out what had hapened, and his face filled with compassion.

He assumed I was apart of this, it seemed, and he gave me, and her both, such a look of kindness. I then showed him the small cake I had now, and let him know this girl had put all her heart into it, and he thanked her sincerely, and hugged her.

So I'm thinking about now, wow, he probably is loving hugging THIS girl, man, she's a beauty, but I saw him hug her gently and not tight at all and he patted her on her back a few times, and released her, and thanked her once again with a kind smile. Then a couple more fans jumped in and got hugs from him, and he hugged them all the same way. Then he motioned for me to get a hug, and I wasn't even expecting one, but I thought (if this is even me in the dream, remember) yes, I would like a hug, actually, but it won't be romantic. So I let him hug me, and he gave me a light hug, and I felt the pats on my back and I said to myself, "see, just like any other fan...it's not romantic...it's his generous spirit." And I started to pull away, at what I thought was after an appropriate amount of time.

But, to my surprise, he looked at me, right in my eyes, and didn't release his hold. Instead, he pulled me back into a hug (now it's becoming like a dream every female fan would enjoy! haha)... and he held me so so tight. And I thought in the dream how wonderful it felt, and it was affecting my heart very much, I was melting, my heart and my body, right into his arms. It was a looong hug and just when I was thinking, because we all know all hugs must come to an end eventually, "Is the hug going to end now?" But at that moment when I asked myself this, MJ looks at me and says very deeply, as if with his whole heart, "I don't want to let go of you" and I looked back and filled with emotion said, "I don't want to let go of you either" and then...oh boy...here we go...I don't dream these kind of dreams...he kissed me and it was the most passionate, romantic, full of love kiss I have ever experienced (not that I'm all that experienced. lol). And again I'm thinking, this kiss is lasting so long knowing, yes, kisses also must come to an end, but I knew I didn't want this connection to end. But then, I woke up...

...but the romantic love feeling stayed with me, as I was laying there in bed, and I felt the Lord's Spirit. And I then remembered this discussion here about the LITD girl and MJ, involving the questioning of: was it a romantic or just a spiritual conection they were having? I kind of thought my dream was confirming that their love connection does include the romantic aspect, but maybe "she", like some of us, had begun to doubt it.

MP girl you went deep. I'm not sure who said anything about MJ being on a mission from God but i think i can answer your question. a scripture in the bible says my sheep know my voice and if MJ went on some mission i'm sure he'd know clearly God was guiding him before taking on a task.

Yeah, we sheep do recognize His voice, but sometimes we start to stray and He has to take the hook end of His staff and pull us back in line. *sigh* But He turns it all to good. (it make take awhile, though...)

if MJ took on as you say some "ridiculously impossible mission" only God could see him through and if he did so then it should be expected he'd have opposition

He could experience opposition either way.

... like when the 3 guys in the bible got thrown in the fire

You used a great example out of the book of Daniel here, and I really like how you tied in this...

...what may seem like a set back when God is in the mix often has to do with Him allowing us to see how great He is.

God was in the process of a mighty deliverance for Meshach, Shadrach and Obednego, and He showed himself (revealed himself) there with them in the flames as it was happening, like you say...and He got all the glory. I would like to think if MJ is (fantastical theory applied) on some Mission from God that he is also pointing to his God and Deliverer, so Jesus can have all the glory. Not MJ.

I recently heard about God calling gideon...

The story of Gideon in the book of Judges is one of my personal favorites because Gideon didn't see himself as much when God called Him, reminding God he was the least of his tribe and family, and certainly didn't see himself as a "mighty warrior." I have had that kind of dialogue with God a lot. And yet the story reminds us that God can and will accomplish it all using weak, little us, if we just have faith, are willing to obey, and "let Him." Yes, God dismissed more and more of Gideon's army intentionally so it was down to so few, and the odds were stacked high against them; and if I remember the story correctly even the remaining men didn't do anything, but God on His own fought their enemy in a supernatural way. There was no doubt in the end, regardless, that God won that battle and not man.

If MJ has a litd why would you think God would not be so loving as to bring them together?

Well, God's ways are not our way, and His thoughts are not our thoughts, so even though I would agree with you that it just seems like our loving God would plan to give MJ this joy in the end, He may have His reasons to not. But this is where faith comes in, If MJ is still out there hoping for this, then hopefully he is still praying and trusting God for it. And, likewise, "her." And then they wait and see. We always want a sign that shows us that God will give us the promise we believe He has told us He will give us, but in the Bible so often God says to His servants that after the fact....after He has come through for them and given them the promise, THEN they will know (get their sign) that He is their God and keeps His word and promises. He told Moses that after he and the Israelites have successfully escaped Pharoah and crossed over to the desert and Moses himself is back on that same mountain where he is now asking God, 'but how will I know You will do this?" God said, "THEN you will know that I am your God and do what I promise." So it may be with MJ and his LITD girl (if she exists and fantastical theory applied) that AFTER they are in each others' arms THEN they will know that God is a God who fulfilled His promise to them in their lives! And who will get the glory? God.

... if you look at the life of job you'll see the people closest to you are often your biggest enemies in trying times instead of encouraging...

This can be so true. Especially if it has to do with something God has promised you that no one will believe themselves as being possible. They will say you are delusional and into fantasy. Think of Noah...wow, yet he kept building that ridiculous ark in lovely clear weather. It's best to keep a special promise like that to oneself...then again, God might just want it to be known to some others, so later, when He -does- make the "fantasy" into a reality, those same people will be blown away. God will have gotten their attention. One has to be strong and stay focused, standing on the fact that deep inside they know what they know God has told them. That would be Noah, as he was mocked and treated with scorn, that would be Joshua as he led his men around the walls of Jericho seven times, and that was Michael Jackson, more than once in his life I'm sure, when he had vision and set his goals high and believed with faith.

Maybe MJ believing God will bring him and his Love so Divine girl together one day is in this category. Will we shake our heads and mock him?

[Job's] wife told him to curse God and die but she was the one who wound up dying i think and God blessed job with a new life and a new wife and i bet He gave him one that was faithful to Him.

Interestingly, recently I reread the end of Job and although I have always assumed God enabled Job's wife, (even though she must have been older, seeing as she had all those grown children who died when the roof fell on them) to have a slew of more children. Yet this last time I thought...hmm, could be possible she died and he remarried someone younger who gave him his next batch of children. And I thought maybe it could have been because her faith waned and her belief in Job waned. It is not clear though. It is an easy thing for the Lord to cause a woman beyond child bearing years to give birth, if He wants to do that. Job stood in the gap and forgave his friends, and prayed for them, and perhaps he did this for his wife as well. And God gave them a new start together. But as I say, it is not clear in the wording of the book of Job in this area.

Hey Lisha

"if the Beloved, in S.O.S. (hey, SoS, there are your same initials!), loves her lover with such a love that it feels like it's a vital breath for her, then that is a powerful love. Maybe this intense love would bypass one's heart and go straight to the soul. It seems like the Beloved is only at peace when she knows that all is well with her and her lover. When he is not with her and she cannot find him, it's like she is gasping for breath."

well put, i imagine true love can be just like that

Oh, thank you.

EDIT: Looks like you posted, FT, while I was posting. You are a great support to the LITD girl and MJ; you have lots of faith for them, it seems, and keep very positive for them. Even still. You would make a good cheerleader. :flowers: *passes FT a pom-pom*

Also, FT, your recent long post was nicely organized in way that made it more readable, thank you!

Ape you came by and just gave a quicky post! Where's your long one that I'm waiting for. You said you have things to say...

 

[MysteriousPhoenix]

Very interesting dream. I'll have to come back and try to interpret it. Reminds me of that song that goes: "Someone left my cake out in the rain ... and I'll never have that recipe agaaaaain for looooooooove!" lol!

 

[Lainy]

Wow! What a great thread again! I'm so glad with the directions of this thread... Thanks ladies

 

[Lisha]

Very interesting dream. I'll have to come back and try to interpret it. Reminds me of that song that goes: "Someone left my cake out in the rain ... and I'll never have that recipe agaaaaain for looooooooove!" lol!

Leave it to you, MP, to bring new insight and the perfect song to go with it! :clapping: I never thought about interpreting that cake as representing that girl's (the really beauteous fan's) own love for MJ, and that is so interesting to me now that you suggest this...wow. Hmm. Do you think the girl with the cake could be one of or "the" 3D girl, who has for several years been actually "in" MJ's life and conscientiously worked on her relationship with him, by always being there for him, etc? And her effort that she put out in this area is the cake? And what's also interesting is that when I typed out the dream for you all, I was going to put the word "disappointed" but then for some reason changed it to "broken hearted" for how she was over her cake falling and becoming unpresentable or no longer givable, or...no longer appealing...? Gosh. And Michael in the dream was sad for her, but still his hug showed that he didn't feel that "romantic way" about her. But it's nice to see that the LITD girl, if that is who I was representing, was caring towards her and felt sad about it along with her. Hmm. *still thinking...*

Another thing I forgot to mention and I don't know if it has any significance, but the MJ in the dream was not from the eras I usually see him from in the few dreams I've had with him. Most commonly he is Bad era MJ or Thriller MJ and an occasional "recent" MJ from around 2008. In this dream he looked like MJ from the early 2000's and I think even specifically 2003. I wonder why he was "that" MJ?

The only significant thing I can really think of in how 2003 applies to us here, is that (we have discussed and explored this idea in posts) it is then when MJ's thoughts once again came back to "her" and he showed that, perhaps intentionally, through the song, One More Chance, which we know was released in 2003.

I wonder if this 3D girl in the dream was around in 2003, and felt superceded by the LITD girl as MJ's thoughts and heart turned again towards her, his secret love, and this girl, picking up on it, figuratively watched her cake that took so long to bake, come to nothing. And the reason (interpretation perhaps) for her to ask about another necklace is because "she wanted to be pretty enough for MJ" and even the playboy charm, could indicate that she did "whatever" necessary to help her physically hold her own among the lovely celebrity women he was always around. And imagine her realization when she came to understand, that that is not, or never has been, what MJ's heart looks at, maybe she came to understand when she took a look at the LITD girl, the one he hugged with such feeling, who probably looks very everyday and not "Hollywood" at all. Wow. Are you guys thinking that, or do you think the LITD girl would have to be beautiful on the outside to be deserving enough for MJ?

I'm wondering if this dream was more telling about a particular 3D girl then it is about the LITD girl (if she exists).

MP, you did it again... man, heavy.

Here's Mac Arthur's Park,

[youtube]SBOyxFQaxjs[/youtube]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBOyxFQaxjs

To any heart broken 3D women out there, I would like to point them to these lyrics in this song, and I'll word them this way :hug: ,

There will be another song for you, and you will sing it
There will be another dream for you, someone will bring it

Wow! What a great thread again! I'm so glad with the directions of this thread... Thanks ladies

Aw, Lainy, thanks for always being so affirming to us in here and our posts. :hug: Hope you'll post some of your thoughts soon, too! :flowers:

I'm sure if she's the faith filled lady that we've presumed her to be she's already encouraged and trusting God concerning MJ

Back to this, FT...I've bolded some words in there, because they remind me of the song I heard on the radio yesterday. I really like Sade; she has a great style, and these lyrics here seem to be a lot of what may be goin' (or went on) with MJ and the LITD girl (if she exists) and what they would maybe like to say to each other to encourage one another and keep them strong and full of faith for their love:

[youtube]iCX518FBhjU[/youtube]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCX518FBhjU

This song is hard to keep still with. I love the beats that Sade uses in her songs.

Anyway, these lyrics in particular stand out:

It's about faith
It's about trust (yeah, yeah)
It's about faith
It's about trust

 

[MysteriousPhoenix]

Wow! When you associate "Mac Arthur's Park" with the "3D" women, it really makes sense - especially the lyric:

"Spring was never waiting for us, Dear. It ran one step ahead as we followed in the dance ..."

It's as if they're saying, "We never stood a chance up against your LITD woman that you love so much." Wow! I never thought about their perspective before. It must feel like their cake was left out in the rain. Yeah, and where in the heck ARE they gonna find a recipe for something like that again? They probably felt lucky it happened at all the first time around. I guess they would have to wait for a new dream. Powerful how the lyrics state:

"And after all the loves of my life, you'll still be the one and I'll ask myself why."

Would probably be hard to find a replacement for MJ. Feel kinda sorry for the replacements.

Btw, really like that Sade song. The lyrics remind me of a message I might hear preached at church!

 

[lulubelle]

I love this thread, that is all I want to say.

 

[Magicgirl]

this is all so sad... Did someone here manage to go to MJ's grave to put some flowers? I wonder why couldn't one's brain or personality be recorded like some computer program, then one could live forever so to say. Retuning to the subject of discussion now... I think this LITD girl was some kind of defense reaction. When we get too much hurt or disappointed in people, in love, there is always this fantasy girl or boy a person can go to in his/her mind, which is ideal, good, kind or whatever and is everything the person dreams of.