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Did MJ Have ANY Faults?

Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

LindavG said:
Why the hostile attitude? You approach every thread this way. No, not every fan here believes Michael was a perfect angel and no one's going to scream at you for discussing Michael's faults when it is relevant to the topic thread. I personally just don't see the point of dwelling on someone's faults all the time, especially on a fan board. There's enough of that outside of the fan community, most people come here as a reprieve from that and to celebrate the man we all love. What is wrong with that?
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Every time I say anything I get attacked by the same group of people. I'm sick of it honestly. I shouldn't have to explain that my opinion isn't me being a hater or not bias every single time I say anything that isn't positive. I'm sick of it. I just want to have discussions on here and I can't do that because some people like to make other people feel like their opinions are stupid or wrong. I'm also sick of certain people mentioning me without quoting me and calling me "obsessed" or "unhappy". As AlwaysThere there said, if I wasn't such a big fan of MJ I don't think I'd be able to frequent this board anymore. My problem is the overwhelming positivity is sickening quite honestly. There's no room for balanced discussion when people just like to shoot it down. I think I need to take a break from here. I want to like this place but I just find myself being annoyed more often than not. I never said I had a problem with people wanting to be positive about MJ. I don't go out of my way to be negative about MJ as some people like to think, I just discuss things how I see them and people don't like that apparently. Constant positive MJ discussion just isn't mentally stimulating honestly, if I wanted to see people say how great MJ is for a few hours I'd put on the Off The Wall documentary. Anyway I'm done with this place for a while. I try to get on with people here but all I get is the same people trying to make me look like an idiot.
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

Michael's biggest fault was that he could never be perfect, like me. I never asked to be born perfect, but it's a curse I have to live with on a daily basis
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

LindavG said:
Why the hostile attitude? You approach every thread this way. No, not every fan here believes Michael was a perfect angel and no one's going to scream at you for discussing Michael's faults when it is relevant to the topic thread. I personally just don't see the point of dwelling on someone's faults all the time, especially on a fan board. There's enough of that outside of the fan community, most people come here as a reprieve from that and to celebrate the man we all love. What is wrong with that?
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How correct and succinct. *claps*
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

In my opinion:

Music wise? Michael had an unparalleled run from 1970 to 1997 that I don't think has been yet matched by any mainstream pop artist. Invincible is the sole dark spot on his thirty-year discography. I can find very few genuine faults there.

Performance wise? 1970 to 1995 ranges from solid to otherworldly. 1996 onward ranges from mediocre to abysmal, particularly the History tour and the 30th anniversary celebration. Incredibly disappointing.

Career wise? There are instances of Michael doing certain things and taking certain routes that some could describe as unfair or inappropriate. He could also be described as unreliable and/or lazy, particularly in the last few years of his life.

Personality wise? Flat out, the man had some less-than-intelligent moments. I won't dwell on them here, but to put it simply, there were situations in which I'm convinced he totally deserved whatever backlash he got. He was a smart man by all measures, and a beautiful human being, but he seemed to do whatever he wanted to, completely regardless of what anyone else may have suggested.

That's the facts of it. None of this detracts from the fact that Michael Jackson was an immensely talented man with one of the strongest bodies of work and a loyal following. But to stand here and say "Michael Jackson was about as close to perfect as any human has ever gotten" is completely foolish.

Every single person to ever exist had flaws, and every person who will exist will as well. Michael Jackson was no different.
 
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Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

analogue said:
Michael's biggest fault was that he could never be perfect, like me. I never asked to be born perfect, but it's a curse I have to live with on a daily basis
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Nice one:)

9d84376244efe13a5ad293dd9a830403.jpg
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

AlwaysThere said:
Music wise? Michael had an unparalleled run from 1970 to 1997 that I don't think has been yet matched by any mainstream pop artist. Invincible is the sole dark spot on his thirty-year discography. I can find very few genuine faults there.

Performance wise? 1970 to 1995 ranges from solid to otherworldly. 1996 onward ranges from mediocre to abysmal, particularly the History tour and the 30th anniversary celebration. Incredibly disappointing.

Career wise? There are instances of Michael doing certain things and taking certain routes that some could describe as unfair or inappropriate. He could also be described as unreliable and/or lazy, particularly in the last few years of his life.

Personality wise? Flat out, the man had some less-than-intelligent moments. I won't dwell on them here, but to put it simply, there were situations in which I'm convinced he totally deserved whatever backlash he got. He was a smart man by all measures, and a beautiful human being, but he seemed to do whatever he wanted to, completely regardless of what anyone else may have suggested.

That's the facts of it. None of this detracts from the fact that Michael Jackson was an immensely talented man with one of the strongest bodies of work and a loyal following. But to stand here and say "Michael Jackson was about as close to perfect as any human has ever gotten" is completely foolish.

Every single person to ever exist had flaws, and every person who will exist will as well. Michael Jackson was no different.
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In my opinion. Perfect post.

Having said all that, he made Dangerous, so I'll forgive him anything.
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

These type of topics obviously are enjoyed... I mean right now 16 browsing this ONE thread! After years of shying away from these type convos it's interesting to talk about it..

It's somewhat like taking the mask off of the Easter bunny! We all want to see it but some will look away..


The tricky part is speaking openly without being judged or get in trouble... Especially when its mostly hypothesis that we speak from... You mix fact with opinion and it's controversial.. Unless everyone is open, can be a slippery slope!!
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

As long as people are still respectful towards eachother, and towards Michael himself. Then I see no problem with these kinds of threads
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

KOPV said:
These type of topics obviously are enjoyed... I mean right now 16 browsing this ONE thread! After years of shying away from these type convos it's interesting to talk about it..

It's somewhat like taking the mask off of the Easter bunny! We all want to see it but some will look away..


The tricky part is speaking openly without being judged or get in trouble... Especially when its mostly hypothesis that we speak from... You mix fact with opinion and it's controversial.. Unless everyone is open, can be a slippery slope!!
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The thing is that it's all opinion as no one knew him. Logically though it's very obvious he was flawed.

Personally I think many of his later life mistakes were due to mental illness/drug dependency, and before anyone says it that's obviously opinion and not fact.
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

My honest opinion is that seeing as there are literally a shit ton of other places out there including some MJ "fan" sites where people talk about MJ's "faults" daily I don't see why some people feel SO strongly that the same discussion needs to constantly happen on here.
Why bring that here when there are SO many other places to discuss it, but very very very few places to talk positively about Michael without assholes talking shit and making jokes.
I like it here because I'm NOT constantly bombarded with negativity about Michael.
*Kanye Shrug*
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

What I do love about this forum, is that the majority of fans on here are the most level headed MJ fans. I've seen two types of MJ fans. The type where they think he's an angel, and think he's perfect. And then there's the type who always talk about his flaws to prove that they're not some crazy MJ lunatic.

I think this forum has a healthy balance. It's mostly positive, but people will still recognise that MJ was human and had flaws
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

Pink Diamond Princess said:
My honest opinion is that seeing as there are literally a shit ton of other places out there including some MJ "fan" sites where people talk about MJ's "faults" daily I don't see why some people feel SO strongly that the same discussion needs to constantly happen on here.
Why bring that here when there are SO many other places to discuss it, but very very very few places to talk positively about Michael without assholes talking shit and making jokes.
I like it here because I'm NOT constantly bombarded with negativity about Michael.
*Kanye Shrug*
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Or just avoid these threads.

The clue is in the title dear.
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

Tony R said:
Or just avoid these threads.

The clue is in the title dear.
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I can go in any thread and say whatever I want.
I don't have to avoid anything.
The only people on this website that can control me in any way are the mods, and last time I checked "sweet heart" you weren't one.
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

Not to be rude at all, but isn't this type of thread precisely the reason Gaz opened up the new forum for? Where we can say anything we want and think without repercussions?
There are plenty of things that Michael said or did that I didn't agree with and if I had been in his life, would have told him so. I certainly did so through a TV screen.
Holding Blanket out the window? That was flat out stupid. And this comes from someone who ADORES Michael.
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

barbee0715 said:
Not to be rude at all, but isn't this type of thread precisely the reason Gaz opened up the new forum for? Where we can say anything we want and think without repercussions?
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In your book "without repercussions" means that everyone is supposed to agree with each other?
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

"respect" that's the tricky thing though... that's relative and based a lot on opinion... You can say virtually anything that has to do with a persons faults and be considered disrespectful...

And Analogue I agree, the thing about these threads is it brings people that are open minded about honest opinions... THAN it brings those who are part of the defend police that finds everything rude and disrespectful that doesn't show MJ as some type of prophetic being..

M.J.P.D I'd call it!


For me, I like having raw conversation.. I don't mind debates and other opinions. I like truth for what it is, that is where you find the true depth to somethig/someone - not the polished version of it..

And to me, you can't really appreciate the beauty in something until you know the everything that made it so beautiful...


People died making the pyramids!
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

Michaels Lover said:
Obvious troll is obvious
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Says someone who just posts "lol..." in a thread.

Doggone said:
I don't understand why people get offended why we say that Michael had some faults/mistakes in his life as well. Michael is a human being, he makes mistakes too. Of course, we the hardcore fans, don't like to see the King make any mistakes because we know he's the best.
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Not sure who is getting offended though? I haven't seen anyone here deny that Michael was a human being who made mistakes.

The thing that Mike told Bashir about sharing a bed is loving in his biased interview was not so good. I'm not blaming Michael, he trusted devil Bashir and I couldn't know that things would happen afterwards.
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I wish he had done more research prior to agreeing to an interview with Bashir. I think he relied too much on the judgment of Uri Geller (another shameless scammer) and the fact that Bashir had interviewed Princess Diana before, but if you look into it you'll find that Bashir was already known for his sneaky sensationalist tactics in the UK so there was no reason to think he would give Michael a fair representation. I was glad that Michael at least had his own camera crew there as well but the follow-up documentary should have been handled a lot better. Maury Pauvich? SMH.

As for the "sleeping with children" comment, I agree that made him sound bad. He shouldn't have said it but I don't know if I really consider it a "fault". It was just in Michael's character not be aware of (or not to care about) social etiquette and social norms. He just did what felt right and moral to him. In this case it worked out bad for him but I generally find it an admirable trait. So much of our behaviour is regulated by norms and standards that have no basis in rationality but are just passed down from generation to generation without question. Men do not wear make-up. Race is defined by skin colour. Sharing a bed is a sexual act. Black music is distinct from white music. The childlike is inferior to the adult. Royalty is European. A musician is someone who plays a musical instrument. Then Michael came along and challenged all of these concepts. I think that's why he evokes such a strong response from people, haters and fans alike.

Furthermore, I wish Michael didn't offer money back in 1993 when the allegations come around about him molesting childs. Those bitches were after money and they got what they want. Although offering money was the simplest way to get rid off the dumb allegations, it wasn't smart in my opinion. Because this made him quilty in the public's eye and those devils got the money they were after.
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The settlement is a complicated subject. For the longest time I felt that Michael never should have settled because it indeed seemed like an admission of guilt and it encouraged other false accusers to come forward. But after learning more about the reasons behind the settlement, I think it was ultimately the right decision. The case could have dragged on for several years, Michael's health was deteriorating by the day, the civil case would have been held ahead of the criminal case which hampered his chances of winning, there was pressure on all sides (record company, insurance, friends like ET, family, lawyers, sponsors, doctors) to resolve the case, the media was relentless... I don't know what I would have done in Michael's case.

Tony R said:
Performance wise he lip synced too much.
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Yes, and he performed the same routines too many times. I would have liked to see him experiment more during his concerts.

SmoothGangsta said:
I certainly agree, Michael made many stupid decisions such as this throughout his life. Many people around him tried to tell him this as well, which resulted in them being shut out of his life.
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How do you know that this is why they were shut out of his life - because they say so?
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

InvincibleTal said:
In your book "without repercussions" means that everyone is supposed to agree with each other?
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Absolutely not. I think we all disagree a lot-especially when talking about the music. However, if we're talking about Michael as a person, I know I get personally get irate if I feel someone is dissing him-especially on a fan forum.
Nobody wants to be banned, especially if they're discussing a controversial subject. I thought that was "without repercussions" was supposed to mean. Maybe I just need clarification.
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

We're so afraid of speaking openly and raw we are speaking about SPEAKING raw!!

SMH! lol... trying to tip toe into that zone
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

Pink Diamond Princess said:
I can go in any thread and say whatever I want.
I don't have to avoid anything.
The only people on this website that can control me in any way are the mods, and last time I checked "sweet heart" you weren't one.
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You don't go to a swimming pool and complain it's wet.

Well, you probably would...
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

barbee0715 said:
Absolutely not. I think we all disagree a lot-especially when talking about the music. However, if we're talking about Michael as a person, I know I get personally get irate if I feel someone is dissing him-especially on a fan forum.
Nobody wants to be banned, especially if they're discussing a controversial subject. I thought that was "without repercussions" was supposed to mean. Maybe I just need clarification.
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That part of the forum isn't supposed to be an echo chamber of negativity.
I THINK it's supposed to be a place where mods let users get away with just a bit more then they do elsewhere on MJJC.
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

KOPV said:
We're so afraid of speaking openly and raw we are speaking about SPEAKING raw!!

SMH! lol... trying to tip toe into that zone
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Afraid of what? People not agreeing with each other? So far I only see people rant about not being able to say their opinions instead of saying them and dealing with different or opposing opinions.
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

Tony R said:
You don't go to a swimming pool and complain it's wet.

Well, you probably would...
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Ah, now you insult my intelligence when it is you who is angry that they can't talk however they wish about Michael on a Michael Jackson FAN Forum without being contested.
This truly troubles me.:smilerolleyes:

Your statement is also very ironic considering that much like you stupidly believe that I would go to a pool and complain that it is wet you yourself have come to an MJ fan forum and yet you complain about others contesting your opinions because they are MJ fans.

But you would complain about MJ fans being fans on an MJ Fan Forum wouldn't you?
 
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Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

Invincible - That's not what's going on... they just know with experience that if they open up - Hell fire and brimstone will drop upon them...


it happens very often... They're not trying to get kicked out of MJJC!
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

KOPV said:
Invincible - That's not what's going on... they just know with experience that if they open up - Hell fire and brimstone will drop upon them...


it happens very often... They're not trying to get kicked out of MJJC!
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Hell fire is other fans disagreeing with them? Who said anything about being kicked out of MJJC?
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

Like I said.. "respect" is relative, so when it's a matter of thought and opinion.. a view can be seen as disrespectful.. a disrespectful comment can = infraction..

infraction x C = Termination.
 
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