Did MJ Have ANY Faults?

Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

Didn't know about the Tom Cruise incident but I certainly remember Steve Irwin doing that with his baby boy. I didn't know who he really was at the time or how beloved he was-I just thought he was insane. In fact, when Steve Irwin is talked about, it's the first thing I think of, but no one says anything about it.
And I remember freaking out over Hugh Jackman tossing his baby girl about 6 feet in the air over a NYC pavement in front of paps. He caught her, but it, like the rest, was idiotic. I just couldn't believe how stupid he could be. But again, we don't see it replayed for years and years and have their kids hauled away.
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

Quite frankly, I would not expect a different answer from you.

Bear in mind also that, unlike MJ, the 2009 incident with Tom Cruise dangling his baby over a river was almost entirely ignored by the media/tabloids.

And quite frankly, I wouldn't expect a different response from you.

The fact that Tom Cruise didn't receive any backlash from his actions is disgusting. (Matter of fact, I had never heard of that incident to begin with. Same with the incidents with Steve Irwin and Hugh Jackman - they're all news to me!)

All of these man acted outlandishly irresponsible. None of them deserve defense for these actions in my view.
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

Since this ritual is limited to a village or few villages in India these men don't get the backlash Michael got even though it's cruel to the babies.


Here's Steve being reckless and irresponsible.
 
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Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

It's an interesting topic of discussion too, as long as everyone treats each other - and Michael - with respect. I don't doubt that we all love Michael so there should be a place for a discussion like this on the forum. It needn't be tucked away in the 'Hood' section IMO. Besides, we've had similar threads (like the "what makes you a heretic among MJ fans" thread) before without any problems.

There's one thing about Michael that I completely changed my mind about in the past week but I didn't really find the thread to share it. Perhaps this is the place. I've always felt this strange contradiction about Michael that he was very humble but at the same time seemed megalomaniacal. I didn't understand the HIStory statues, the obsession with breaking records, wanting to be called the King of Pop, the weird paintings that depicted him as a king or an angel, how he wanted us all to see the fans' extreme adulation, et cetera. To me it went beyond ambition and I even suspected he had narcissistic disorder (not in the nasty sense that people associate it with, just in the sense that he craved outside approval and needed to think of himself as exceptional).

But then a few days ago I came across an article of a woman - I think she was a professor - who did a critical analysis of the Black or White video. I never really understood the meaning behind that video and the controversial ending but that article was a true eye opener for me. This woman grew up in the 1960s and she related a conversation she had with her black friend (she herself was white). She described the racism that Michael experienced growing up and the racism and denigration that his family members and musical role models (Sammy Davis Jr, James Brown, etc.) were treated with. Of course I knew Michael had to deal with racism but as a white European woman in my 20s, I had never realised what a profound impact this must have had on Michael. He had a natural competitive streak anyway but he must have felt like he needed to work twice as hard to get the recognition that white artists like Elvis and the Beatles got (and he was probably right). As the author of that article noted, he needed undeniable proof of success in the form of record sales, sold out concerts, global adulation, to prove that he could be equal to or surpass the greatest white artists. That's why it was important to him to be recognised as the King of Pop and to have the greatest selling album of all time. All of these symbols - the statues, the paintings, the records, the awards, the adulation - were a way to signal to the outside world that he was an man of accomplishment, not to be denigrated or dismissed like his predecessors. Now it makes sense to me how he could be so humble yet at the same time care so much about 'superficial' signs of success that a "real" artist shouldn't care about. This is probably already common knowledge among his black/minority fans but it came as a revelation to me, and I consider myself to be rather worldly :p

A+ post.
Seeing this post made me happy.
Many fans of all races don't know or stupidly pretend as if Michael's race had zero to do with anything when it came/comes to Michael, when the reality is it's already really impressive that Michael got where he did, but it's even more impressive that he did it while working against and eventually breaking strong racial barriers.
By doing some of the seemingly over the top things he did, Michael made sure he couldn't be denied in the same way many of his predecessors and inspirations were.
He reminded people just who he was by doing those things.

He did have to work twice as hard (maybe even more) to get where he did then a white artist would have, and he wasn't going let people forget that got where he did, and look where it got him.
Even with all of the bullshit thrown at him and his legacy he is still known as the greatest all around entertainer to ever do it and the King of Pop. :)

It's also important to say that Michael could be as over the top as he was because he could back it up.
His bite was just as strong if not stronger then his bark. :yes:
 
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Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?


Honestly I don't even know if that is dangerous. Without video footage or other photos, I don't know what the water's current is like in that photo, nor how deep it is which I think would factor into my opinion of what's happening there. I can't say anything, but I'm also not one to judge people as a whole off little one-offs like this (unless it's something drastic, like ya know, murder/rape).

What about Steve Irwin dangling his baby boy in front of a crocodile or alligator? I know Steve was nowhere near as famous as Michael but the backlash he got was mild compared to Michael and what Steve did was more dangerous.

It's like you said, Steve Irwin isn't anywhere near as famous (and the fact he wasn't often seen as a "freak" would've helped too). However, in parts of the world where he is very well known (i.e. Australia especially), it was quite controversial and he did receive backlash and public criticism from many groups at the time. The fact he is exceptionally trained in animal behaviour, had been dealing with crocs since he was a kid and therefore would've known if it was unsafe might've calmed the effect too (not that it excused it).

I never really see the baby-dangling incident brought up when I hear people talk about Michael tbh? Drug use, plastic surgery and child molestation allegations tend to take the center stage when it comes to negative aspects of him.

Also when Michael showed Prince like Rafiki did with Simba no one made the big deal they made wit Blanket. The difference was Blanket moving the way he did.


It's really hard to tell but is there a short platform right below the window there? Michael himself seems to be sitting on the ledge of the window at the beginning too... As for why it's not known, there was likely no press outside when Michael did the Simba thing, otherwise you can essentially guarantee that'd make headline news.

Also weird how the uploader is like "I think the press weren't lucky enough to get this footage!" and then proceeds to upload it to YouTube, making it easier for the press to find?
 
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Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

Like all humans of course he had faults. I think some people need to be mature enough to acknowledge those as well. Of course he was a wonderful human being and a fantastic entertainer but like us all he had some faults. The ones that always personally bugged me were the hanging of Blanket over the balcony , simply inexcusable i do not care WHO it is and he got exactly what he deserved in the press. The lies about the plastic surgery and yes i am sticking to this , to say he had simply two operations is absurd. What he did not mention was things like the multiple facelifts, cleft chin , tattooed eyebrows, tattooed lipliner, the obvious skin lightening procedure ( yes to even out his vitiligo, which i do accept) .
I just wish he could have been more down to earth and "public". Also would have been nice to see him lipsync less. The way i saw the History tour was a blatant rip off . The tour was basically someone putting on a cd. I think maybe he did regret that tour and he obviously was wanting to sing a bit more live in TII.
Over and out but again he was still the best.
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

p.s Oh meant one last thing. Why did he not use his own sperm for his kids ? I have never understood this and i promise i am not being awkward. Nobody seems to answer this question ? :(
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

p.s Oh meant one last thing. Why did he not use his own sperm for his kids ? I have never understood this and i promise i am not being awkward. Nobody seems to answer this question ? :(

Because it's not really our business. Some things are meant to stay private.

I don't really care if Michael was biologically their father or not, and tbh I don't think it should matter. He raised them from the day they were born; that made him their father and that's all that matters.
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

Because it's not really our business. Some things are meant to stay private.

I don't really care if Michael was biologically their father or not, and tbh I don't think it should matter. He raised them from the day they were born; that made him their father and that's all that matters.

I totally agree with you on him being a great father to them from day one. I just never understood why he didnt use his own cells. Was he worried that they may have been even more scrutinized? Because I could understand that
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

I totally agree with you on him being a great father to them from day one. I just never understood why he didnt use his own cells. Was he worried that they may have been even more scrutinized? Because I could understand that

None of us know the real answer to anything. Unless it's from Michael or Debbie's mouth, everything is essentially pure speculation.
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

Biologically, the only child that bears a resemblance to Michael is Blanket.

That doesn't matter much to me though. As others have said above, Michael raised these kids from birth to their early teens. Parenthood is not strictly through blood.

As far as I'm concerned, Michael Jackson was their father.
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

Like all humans of course he had faults. I think some people need to be mature enough to acknowledge those as well. Of course he was a wonderful human being and a fantastic entertainer but like us all he had some faults. The ones that always personally bugged me were the hanging of Blanket over the balcony , simply inexcusable i do not care WHO it is and he got exactly what he deserved in the press.

That was a mistake, yes. Even great parents do make mistakes.
But Michael held him securely, Blanket is still alive. I think the public needs to get over MJ "Balconygate". lol


The lies about the plastic surgery and yes i am sticking to this , to say he had simply two operations is absurd. What he did not mention was things like the multiple facelifts, cleft chin , tattooed eyebrows, tattooed lipliner, the obvious skin lightening procedure ( yes to even out his vitiligo, which i do accept) .

His medical history (yes, medical, even if it was plastic surgery) is COMPLTELY his very own issue. I can even understand that he may have lied in order to shut up those nosey journalists. It was HIS business only.
And at the end of the day we do not even know the true reasons for his choices.


I just wish he could have been more down to earth and "public". Also would have been nice to see him lipsync less. The way i saw the History tour was a blatant rip off . The tour was basically someone putting on a cd. I think maybe he did regret that tour and he obviously was wanting to sing a bit more live in TII.
Over and out but again he was still the best.

Have you actually attended a HIStory concert? Your judgement is devastating, to say the least. :-(
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

Have you actually attended a HIStory concert? Your judgement is devastating, to say the least. :-(

I am sorry if it sounded that way , it was not my intention. I do feel though if you intend to put on a show for people that keep you basically in a job and put you where you are, then you do exactly that. That is all.
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

What about Steve Irwin dangling his baby boy in front of a crocodile or alligator? I know Steve was nowhere near as famous as Michael but the backlash he got was mild compared to Michael and what Steve did was more dangerous.

Also when Michael showed Prince like Rafiki did with Simba no one made the big deal they made wit Blanket. The difference was Blanket moving the way he did.


:lol: People need to chill.


Regarding "toddler tossing" :lol: :My Dad used to toss us up in the air and always caught us (I believe :lol:). It was pure joy. A lot of people I know do this over here (Germany).


throwing-a-kid-in-the-air-as-the-father-sees-it.jpeg


lmao
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

What about Steve Irwin dangling his baby boy in front of a crocodile or alligator? I know Steve was nowhere near as famous as Michael but the backlash he got was mild compared to Michael and what Steve did was more dangerous.

Oh yes, maybe that's what I mistook for Cruise. But I remember Cruise dangled his baby somewhere too. LOL.
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

p.s Oh meant one last thing. Why did he not use his own sperm for his kids ? I have never understood this and i promise i am not being awkward. Nobody seems to answer this question ? :(

Whether he did or not, how is this a "fault" (as the thread is about MJ's faults)?
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

p.s Oh meant one last thing. Why did he not use his own sperm for his kids ? I have never understood this and i promise i am not being awkward. Nobody seems to answer this question ? :(

how the hell do you know he did not?
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

p.s Oh meant one last thing. Why did he not use his own sperm for his kids ? I have never understood this and i promise i am not being awkward. Nobody seems to answer this question ? :(

Why do you think so? Just because two of his children have lighter skin than his natural colour? Come on, their biological mother is a pale blond woman and their biological father was a brown-skinned man with black tight curls. When you look at Prince and Paris, you'll see they look somewhere inbetween. That's nothing unusual.
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

Now I guess that white passing biracial people don't exist.
Hell, there are many in my own family.

And all of the people at HIStory tour sure as hell seemed to enjoy it.


LOL, I didnt like this idea of this part of the forum at first, but on second thought I love it because I know that people are going to show their true colors here.
 
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Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

Unless some evidence comes out that proves otherwise, I'm gonna say that MJ's kids are biologicaly his.
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

Like all humans of course he had faults. I think some people need to be mature enough to acknowledge those as well. Of course he was a wonderful human being and a fantastic entertainer but like us all he had some faults. The ones that always personally bugged me were the hanging of Blanket over the balcony , simply inexcusable i do not care WHO it is and he got exactly what he deserved in the press.
So you think he deserved to be public enemy #1 for what I will admit was an incredibly stupid mistake meanwhile people that actually abuse or kill children didn't/don't get half of the media dragging that Michael got?

The lies about the plastic surgery and yes i am sticking to this , to say he had simply two operations is absurd. What he did not mention was things like the multiple facelifts, cleft chin , tattooed eyebrows, tattooed lipliner, the obvious skin lightening procedure ( yes to even out his vitiligo, which i do accept) .
I just wish he could have been more down to earth and "public".
Had Michael said he had 20 surgeries the media would've made it 200.
He was damned if he did and damned if he didn't, and Michael did not owe us every detail of his life especially not when everything he did or said was made out to be weird and strange already.
Regardless of what he did dumb asses still would've called him W**** J**** , made jokes, etc.
No amount of him being "down to earth" or "public" would have changed this, or any other bad thing that happened to him if that's what you were getting at.


Also would have been nice to see him lipsync less. The way i saw the History tour was a blatant rip off . The tour was basically someone putting on a cd. I think maybe he did regret that tour and he obviously was wanting to sing a bit more live in TII.
Over and out but again he was still the best.
The people at HIStory tour seemed to enjoy themselves a hell of a lot.

p.s Oh meant one last thing. Why did he not use his own sperm for his kids ? I have never understood this and i promise i am not being awkward. Nobody seems to answer this question ? :(

Nobody answers this question because it's stupid and disrespectful to ask in the first place.
 
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Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

The History tour is cringeworthy to watch. It's just awful.

I hate saying it, because no performer has ever engrossed me in the way Michael Jackson has, but there are very few things in Michael's career that I detest more than the entire History tour.

So much potential, all of it completely wasted.
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

One flaw Michael Jackson had was that he was just too good looking. So good looking to the point of making the ladies go crazy and faint.

He did have a unique talent to attract all kinds of crazies :lol:

Refusing to discuss his vitiligo after his skin began visibly lightening. I understand it was a sensitive topic, but choosing to stay silent on the matter for seven years did nothing but cause people to question your honesty. Even today, people still find it difficult to believe (despite his autopsy confirming it), and I can't very well blame them for it.

It was more than a sensitive topic for Michael. Karen Faye said he even tried to hide it from her for as long as he could. He didn't even tell his own family members. We know Michael had deep insecurities and at that point the media and the public had already been mocking Michael's appearance for years (I've read articles from the time Bad came out and they are downright cruel). I can understand why Michael didn't want to share with the world that he had a disfiguring skin disease even if it may have helped him. And I'm not going to make excuses for people who refuse to believe that Michael did indeed have vitiligo when there is so much evidence to support it. That is just wilfull ignorance.

An accident can happen with this general practice as well and everyone thinks it is cute:

14316820_10210479307757985_6104761719399703713_n.jpg

OT but there's no way that picture is real :p

Since this ritual is limited to a village or few villages in India these men don't get the backlash Michael got even though it's cruel to the babies.

Here's Steve being reckless and irresponsible.

I don't see the point of such posts. Just because other people do things that endanger their children doesn't let Michael off the hook. Michael should not have dangled Blanket out of that hotel window, it was a reckless and stupid act that only provided fodder to people who like to dismiss him as a nutjob. Whenever I try to convince people that Michael was actually an intelligent, well-read and mature man, I can always count on some hater to post pics of the babydangling incident or that awful mugshot as if that refutes my entire argument.

The lies about the plastic surgery and yes i am sticking to this , to say he had simply two operations is absurd. What he did not mention was things like the multiple facelifts, cleft chin , tattooed eyebrows, tattooed lipliner, the obvious skin lightening procedure ( yes to even out his vitiligo, which i do accept).

Michael shouldn't have said he only had two surgeries ("as far as I know" lol) but to suggest he needed to discuss every single procedure he had is nonsense too. What other celebrity does that? He should've just said "Yes, I've had plastic surgery. It's my body and I can do whatever I want with it. Next question."
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

The History tour is cringeworthy to watch. It's just awful.

I hate saying it, because no performer has ever engrossed me in the way Michael Jackson has, but there are very few things in Michael's career that I detest more than the entire History tour.

So much potential, all of it completely wasted.

I have never watched the HIStory tour. Never seen the Dangerous tour either, only the rehearsals. I'm not prepared to be disappointed. I don't understand why Michael relied on lipsynch so much when we know he was a great live singer. It takes away from the magic of a performance.

Wouldn't it have been amazing if Michael, in his old day :)cry:), did a scaled down tour, just Michael behind a microphone with a band behind him, doing acoustic versions of his greatest hits and stuff? I would gladly travel halfway around the world to see that!
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

I have never watched the HIStory tour. Never seen the Dangerous tour either, only the rehearsals. I'm not prepared to be disappointed. I don't understand why Michael relied on lipsynch so much when we know he was a great live singer. It takes away from the magic of a performance.

Wouldn't it have been amazing if Michael, in his old day :)cry:), did a scaled down tour, just Michael behind a microphone with a band behind him, doing acoustic versions of his greatest hits and stuff? I would gladly travel halfway around the world to see that!

Dangerous isn't all that bad - the Bucharest tour is about half mimed, half live. History is where it becomes abysmal. Only two songs of 18-20 are performed live, and more often than not his voice was NOT in good shape. Disappointing.

But I totally agree - an unplugged show would have been absolutely phenomenal.
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

Dangerous isn't all that bad - the Bucharest tour is about half mimed, half live. History is where it becomes abysmal. Only two songs of 18-20 are performed live, and more often than not his voice was NOT in good shape. Disappointing.

But I totally agree - an unplugged show would have been absolutely phenomenal.

I wonder how this can be though. Didn't Seth Riggs say Michael took great care to preserve his voice? He had a soft speaking voice too and it wasn't like he was using his voice excessively (for interviews and such) either. He sounded great during the Bad tour (I have watched that Yokohama concert a million times) so I don't understand how his voice could decline so much in just a few years. Perhaps there was an underlying medical issue we don't know about. It doesn't make sense to me why Michael would choose to lipsynch almost the entire show when he was so obsessed with being perceived as a great performer.
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

Dangerous Tour is awesome. Yes, there are some songs that are lip synced, but it's still 60-65% live.

Maybe I need to give it a chance then. I did enjoy the rehearsals that I saw, even if it was just him messing around. Is the Bucharest concert the best one?
 
Re: Did MJ have ANY faults?

Maybe I need to give it a chance then. I did enjoy the rehearsals that I saw, even if it was just him messing around. Is the Bucharest concert the best one?

Bucharest is good, but there are too many crowd shots, and that gets annoying. Breman is a good show to watch, and it's on youtube
 
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