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Victory was Michael's biggest mistake

Derek1984 said:
I always found it very odd that Buffalo Bill was pulled from the final track listing. Frank DiLeo even mentions it in Rolling Stone just before the album was released.
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I think Frank pushed for it to be included and Michael was supposedly shopping it to DJ's during the time to build anticipation but John debunked that story and also said the song was incomplete.
 
This is what John said when he was asked about these articles regarding Buffalo Bill a few years ago

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"Not likely at all. I remember a cassette tape disappearing from the studio. Five BAD song titles appeared in a story in several Major music business magazines. Shortly after a top executive at the label was fired. Just one result from this type of thing. This does not make a lot of sense. Michael songs leaked in this manner seems questionable. This was during Michaels biggest success periods in his solo career. MJ was very secretive about sharing work, concepts and even Song titles. Interesting article though." - John Barnes
 
the recently leaked audio outtakes from michael’s memoir, revealed how he felt about the ‘victory’ tour, album, and his brothers. it wasn’t good, but not surprising..

what was surprising was that it contradicted what was said by the jackson brothers (minus jermaine) on their fan club vinyl in ‘83, right after motown 25. they were already planning the album and tour then. this was before the ‘thriller’ short. it’s worth noting that at point it was the longest gap between a jacksons/j5 album. skip to 4:18 for the announcement
 
83magic said:
the recently leaked audio outtakes from michael’s memoir, revealed how he felt about the ‘victory’ tour, album, and his brothers. it wasn’t good, but not surprising..

what was surprising was that it contradicted what was said by the jackson brothers (minus jermaine) on their fan club vinyl in ‘83, right after motown 25. they were already planning the album and tour then. this was before the ‘thriller’ short. it’s worth noting that at point it was the longest gap between a jacksons/j5 album. skip to 4:18 for the announcement
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this was just an early announcement to Victory, which was supposed to be released in 1983 with the tour starting that same year. Victory and Michael's 1983 solo album was pushed back due to the massive success of Thriller

From Michaels tape, he mentioned being upset because his brother would say they will help but he ends up doing everything by himself.
 
Uhhh I think deciding to routinely pump himself with high powered hospital knockout drugs might have been a bigger mistake than making a bad album.
 
Victorious said:
I wonder if there is more footage of that day..
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The saddest thing is there is probably full footage and more though we will never see it , but a part of me thinks why should we? If it was anyone of us we would like to record things for our own memories. MJ was human.
 
Andymachine said:
The saddest thing is there is probably full footage and more though we will never see it , but a part of me thinks why should we? If it was anyone of us we would like to record things for our own memories. MJ was human.
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Is it a home video?
 
Spaceship said:
I guess "Another Part of Me"'s were already recorded, since you only see MJ singing "We Are Here to Change the World" there.
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I think the footage isn't from the actual recording. It looks like it was recorded specifically for the making of ceo.
 
Fuzball said:
I think the footage isn't from the actual recording. It looks like it was recorded specifically for the making of ceo.
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Clearly it's footage of MJ working on the songs for the movie. They wouldn't fake a recording session for promoting a movie
 
- Don't sign with Sony Music, stay with CBS
- Make the first leg of Dangerous in the United States
- Lower the price of the History album
- Don't work with Martin Bashir
All of this would have lead to him matching Thriller at one point
 
Spaceship said:
that's silly. he's talking to his engineer and everything about the song
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if we’re talking about him talking to engineers during the snippet of APOM, he was more than likely tweaking the production. APOM was finished during the last leg of recording Victory. The EO mix is different from the BAD mix which is more than likely different from the 84 mix
 
BlackAnon said:
this was just an early announcement to Victory, which was supposed to be released in 1983 with the tour starting that same year. Victory and Michael's 1983 solo album was pushed back due to the massive success of Thriller

From Michaels tape, he mentioned being upset because his brother would say they will help but he ends up doing everything by himself.
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it challenges the notion that the album/tour was done to capitalise on the popularity of ‘thriller’, when they were already in development in early ‘83. the fact that michael was the one who announced it shows that he was already on board, and didn’t need convincing from his mother ( as it was depicted in two biopics). I guess that no one expected ‘thriller’ to be so huge that the era would extend beyond two years.
 
83magic said:
it challenges the notion that the album/tour was done to capitalise on the popularity of ‘thriller’, when they were already in development in early ‘83. the fact that michael was the one who announced it shows that he was already on board, and didn’t need convincing from his mother ( as it was depicted in two biopics). I guess that no one expected ‘thriller’ to be so huge that the era would extend beyond two years.
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An American Dream depicts Joseph approaching the brothers after their M25 performance with the album/tour/Pepsi deal and this interview was recorded a little after M25. Still conflicts because Michael said in the interview they already had 15 songs......but still take into consideration Victory wasn't worked on as a group, but just solo material brought in.

This could also be a play on CBS' letter to Michael from January 1983 where they specify his contract states he is to deliver an album no later than April 2nd, 1983......the letter also stated he can release an album with his brothers to fulfill the agreement. This could be why he announced Victory so early
 
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BlackAnon said:
An American Dream depicts Joseph approaching the brothers after their M25 performance with the album/tour/Pepsi deal and this interview was recorded a little after M25. Still conflicts because Michael said in the interview they already had 15 songs......but still take into consideration Victory wasn't worked on as a group, but just solo material brought in.

This could also be a play on CBS' letter to Michael from January 1983 where they specify his contract states he is to deliver an album no later than April 2nd, 1983......the letter also stated he can release an album with his brothers to fulfill the agreement. This could be why he announced Victory so early
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I find it so wonderful and fascinating to still uncover information from this time period (my favourite) 💜

I’m not aware of that cbs letter, but I suspect it was for a jacksons album. otherwise why they demand a new solo project only six months after the last? when the current one (‘thriller’) was still being promoted? wouldn’t they cancel each other out come awards season? it wasn’t like the motown days where michael and his brothers would release multiple albums a year, with sometimes only a single being lifted from each one.

I came across an archival article which claimed that a jacksons album was due for release in september 1983. it was the release of the singles ‘human nature’ and ‘p.y.t (pretty young thing), as well as the filming of ‘say say say’ and ‘thriller’ that prevented that from happening. the latter two also replaced the ‘peter pan’ movie that supposed to happen. many outlets including nelson george’s original book ‘the michael jackson story’, were already anticipating it. given the intended schedule for that year, I think that michael’s input in the jackson’s album was always going to be minimal.

it’s amazing to think of the alternative possible outcomes of that magical year🤩
 
83magic said:
I find it so wonderful and fascinating to still uncover information from this time period (my favourite) 💜

I’m not aware of that cbs letter, but I suspect it was for a jacksons album. otherwise why they demand a new solo project only six months after the last? when the current one (‘thriller’) was still being promoted? wouldn’t they cancel each other out come awards season? it wasn’t like the motown days where michael and his brothers would release multiple albums a year, with sometimes only a single being lifted from each one.

I came across an archival article which claimed that a jacksons album was due for release in september 1983. it was the release of the singles ‘human nature’ and ‘p.y.t (pretty young thing), as well as the filming of ‘say say say’ and ‘thriller’ that prevented that from happening. the latter two also replaced the ‘peter pan’ movie that supposed to happen. many outlets including nelson george’s original book ‘the michael jackson story’, were already anticipating it. given the intended schedule for that year, I think that michael’s input in the jackson’s album was always going to be minimal.

it’s amazing to think of the alternative possible outcomes of that magical year🤩
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picture is blurry but this is the letter sent to Michael from CBS dated January 11th, 1983. Wording might be a little off in some parts but this is the breakdown of the letter
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Dear Michael,

John Branca requested that I write you in order to receive is brief the nature of your album delivery commitment to CBS.

As you are aware, your solo agreement with CBS provides that you are obligated to deliver one solo album before April 2nd of each year, commencing April 2, 1982. The fact that "Thriller" was delivered subsequent to April 2, 1982 does not, of itself, relieve you of the obligation to deliver an additional solo album before April 2, 1983.

The obligation to deliver an album during any particular annual period is extended for an additional twelve months if before April 2nd of any particular year The Jacksons deliver an album that substantially features your performances. This latter concept is defined in your solo agreement as requiring that your contributions to The Jacksons album as a writer, arranger, musician, and lead singer be substantially the same as on previous group albums. While we are aware that it is not contemplated that your contribution to the upcoming group album will be as substantial as in the past, you might bear in mind the potential impact of such a decision on your solo album delivery commitment. More importantly, however, is that you and your brothers exercise every effort to deliver the next group album before April 2, 1983 in order to relieve you from the obligation of delivering a solo album April 2, 1984.



Also interesting that Thrillers initial recording sessions took place in April 1982. With all that being said, it's possible CBS and MJ negotiated something before Thriller really took off. Doesn't Victory's liner notes credit Michael for things he wasn't necessarily involved in? Victory was probably a workaround for him
 
Don't you ever make no mistake
Baby, I've got what it takes

Thread closed.
 
if things happened the way cbs intended in that letter, there would have been no breathing room for michael’s albums to make the impact that they did.

having said that, i do think spending almost two years releasing singles from the same album is excessive. unless the singles all come with videos and remixes/b sides. or maybe release the singles without an album? to keep that element of surprise.
 
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