Atheist thread

Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.).

TheBob said:

If one want to see how believers cherry pick the Bible, go to the "Any believers in Jesus Christ" thread. Also, notice how I put up the verses from the old testament and how everybody just ignores it.

In the end a believer is in denial, not because they believe without any evidence, but because they believe out of fear. They think that god is going to punish them for not believing or even questioning their belief.

Fear is a very effective tool for indoctrinating kids.

Click to expand...

You have touched on a very important issue!! Fear is such a primal motivator. And it is true that this is abused today and has been in the past by many religions. It's very sad and quite abhorrent. Fear is the reason there are so many so called people of faith who condemn their fellow humans out of prejudice, basically fear of anything that is different. These people smear religion.

But I dont think it's fair to say a believer is in denial period.
Not everyone who believes is a cherry picking bible basher scared to death of judgment. I believe in God but I keep my faith something personal, it's mine and I don't need to convince any one else I'm very aware of the contradictions in organised religion and stay away from it, but that said, I the world's many faiths fascinating from a historical point of view.

I like this thread, it really is food for thought.

Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.).

TheBob said:

If one want to see how believers cherry pick the Bible, go to the "Any believers in Jesus Christ" thread. Also, notice how I put up the verses from the old testament and how everybody just ignores it.

In the end a believer is in denial, not because they believe without any evidence, but because they believe out of fear. They think that god is going to punish them for not believing or even questioning their belief.

Fear is a very effective tool for indoctrinating kids.

Click to expand...

Non believers cherry pick the bible too. You are just as bad. You pick out all the bad things when there are many good things in it too.

Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.).

Wow this is awesome i'm not the only one!!

Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.).

TheBob said:

If one want to see how believers cherry pick the Bible, go to the "Any believers in Jesus Christ" thread. Also, notice how I put up the verses from the old testament and how everybody just ignores it.

In the end a believer is in denial, not because they believe without any evidence, but because they believe out of fear. They think that god is going to punish them for not believing or even questioning their belief.

Fear is a very effective tool for indoctrinating kids.

Click to expand...

Very true! Fear is the easyest way to control people. That's what Bush's administration worked on. Freak people out. THe catholic, muslim, jewish CHURCH does exactly the same. If you don't do that you go thell. Oh my god did you see that? they want to legalise abortion!! THat's killing a human being!! WHere are we getting at? it's the end of the world.... etc.. etc... etc...

I live in Spain, a very chatolic-oriented society, and it gets on my nerves lol. I don't even want to think what livin in the USA would be like :O

Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.).

StarSecret said:

^ lol why? I said people can take it or leave it... which is fair.

Click to expand...

Yeah you were fair Just when you said "many things written in the bible were done so because there was no other explanation at the time. In that way it IS outdated."

I was thinking of retaliating with the things that have been debunked by science with other explanations but are STILL taught/believed by many ... but like I said. I don't want to debate anyone because people are entitled to believe what they want.

Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.).

Moogisland said:

Non believers cherry pick the bible too. You are just as bad. You pick out all the bad things when there are many good things in it too.

Click to expand...

No, I don't cherry pick. I do not believe in god and I see the Bible as pure fiction.

The reason I point out the verses that are evil, is because a believer says two things wich contradicts eachother. God is good and the Bible is the word of god. That is the reason I mention the old testament, because it clearly proves that this character called god is everything but good.

The Bible has verses that are good, and it has verses that are bad. This is irrelevant. The point is that a Christian believes the Bible is the word of god and that god is good.

And when asked to explain this contradiction every Christian fails to explain it with logic, and instead make excuses.

You are mislead if you think I chose to be an atheist simply because of what the Bible says.

I educated myself and found that what religion teaches is a logical fallacy and it has no evidence. That is the core mind of an atheist. Evidence. Religion even faith is not supported by evidence. If one chooses to say that the belief is personal that is ok. But the belief is still not rational or logical. For it to be rational and logical, you have to have evidence and you have to be able to present and demonstrate this to anyone who would ask you.

To this day that has not happened, and there is a very good reason why this has not happened. It is wishful thinking and incorrect according to what we already know to be true.

When I talk about denial I talk about the evidence we do have. How old the universe is, how old the Earth is, biologgy, cosmology, quantum mechanics, astronomy etc.

I find very often the case that when a believer is presented with science, it turns into wordplay and simply ignoring the evidence that tells you that you are incorrect.

That shows a level of dishonesty in a person and it surely demonstrates that such an individual will continue to believe regardless of what the evidence shows.

That IS denial.

Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.).

BRA-VO To you The Bob! You said it very right and very correctly!

Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.).

Well I could say the same thing about non-believing. You are in denial that something may exist. Even if there is no truth to the stories in the bible, you still can't answer if god exists cause nobody really knows. Agnostic I can understand cause it is saying 'you are not sure'. But athesism is just as silly as a believer, cause you have no proof that a god doesn't exist just like religious people have no proof a god does. BUT imo atleast, as a believer, they are spirtual and are in touch with their soul.
I could turn the whole thing round on you and call you cold. If there is no god, then what can possibly explain creation. You say you base your belief on evidence, for example, how old th universe is, but none of that evidence explains what created it all in the first place and why it is all here. Even if you dont believe in god, I expect you to have a solution but you dont, so to me, that just makes you boring and cold and selfish (cause you think you are superior to a higher existance).

Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.).

Stop making it about believers vs non-believers...sheesh, keep the peace and stop slamming each other.

Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.).

Moogisland said:

Well I could say the same thing about non-believing. You are in denial that something may exist. Even if there is no truth to the stories in the bible, you still can't answer if god exists cause nobody really knows. Agnostic I can understand cause it is saying 'you are not sure'. But athesism is just as silly as a believer, cause you have no proof that a god doesn't exist just like religious people have no proof a god does. BUT imo atleast, as a believer, they are spirtual and are in touch with their soul.
I could turn the whole thing round on you and call you cold. If there is no god, then what can possibly explain creation. You say you base your belief on evidence, for example, how old th universe is, but none of that evidence explains what created it all in the first place and why it is all here. Even if you dont believe in god, I expect you to have a solution but you dont, so to me, that just makes you boring and cold and selfish (cause you think you are superior to a higher existance).

Click to expand...

Well first you have to understand that one can not prove none existence I don't believe in god because I have no evidence that a god exist. A god might infact exist, but there is no evidence. That is why you must have faith to believe, because you have no evidence.

How can I be in denial about something that has no evidence? That simply does not make sense. I am not the one who is claiming that a god exist. You are. Every believer claim that god exist. Where is the evidence. The burden of proof lies within the person who claims existence. I simply look at the claim itself. There is no evidence that a god does or does not exist, but there is plenty of evidence that shows that the people who claim god exist are incorrect. Why are they incorrect? They are incorrect because they can not prove it.

So because I can not answer you wether a god exist, I am boring cold and selfish? Where is the logic in that? How do you know what I am.

Let me tell you then my friend. Boring? Get to know me first before you judge me. Selfish? How is not believing in god being selfish? I see it as the opposite, because I do not let my personal feelings guide my desicions or my judgement. I think I am superior to a higher force? How would you know that? Again you do not know me. And how can I feel superior to something I do not know exist, therefore I do not believe it exist.

It is you who think you are superior because you believe. You think you are special and that this creature you call god actually cares about you. Why would such a creature even care? If you step on an ant or a bug, do you care about its wellbeing? No, because you feel superior to that bug or ant. If god exists I can assure you it does not give a flying F about you or anyone else. It is you who arew selfish, because you put yourself on this pedestal and look down on everyone else who do not share your convictions.

And you show a level of ignorance at the same time, or at least a lazy attitude towards education. Let me sum it up for you. " I do not know how this happened, therefore god did it"

Here is how I think. I do not know how this happened, but I would like to know. Let me find out a way of finding out. Oh wait, someone already has attempted this. Let me see what that person has discovered and try to learn. Wow, this is amazing how do they know this. Let me find out. Now I understand. How fun it is to learn and understand.

I am such a selfish person who actually have the honesty to admit I do not know and want to learn. I am even worse, because I would like to pass that knowledge on to my peers and try to better this world.

Atheists have never claimed they know god does not exist. An atheist demands evidence, nothing more. The only thing we claim is that believers are incorrect because of their logic.

You can not prove to me that god exist, therefore I have no reason to believe you.

If you had the evidence, then I would listen. But you don't, so the logical course of action is to reject your claim. It is called being rational and logical. And luckily for everyone, that is how the secular world works, and why we have liberties and freedom and science and technology and the means to live a descent life feeling protected and safe.

Shame on you for not seeing that.

Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.).

Holy guys, just stop. It's annoying that we are exchanging blows.

The Bob, to be honest, you are in no position to shame the person you are responding to.

Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.).

@thebob.
If you don't believe a god exist that is FINE. I am not questioning that. What I am questioning is, if you dont believe in god, then what DO you believe in? What is your answer for creation and why the universe is here.
We all have to have some kind of opinion/belief, it doesn't stand up to not have some view, cause then you are just being ignorant.

@smoothcriminal12, that is my last comment, I promise lol.

Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.).

Moogisland said:

@thebob.
If you don't believe a god exist that is FINE. I am not questioning that. What I am questioning is, if you dont believe in god, then what DO you believe in? What is your answer for creation and why the universe is here.
We all have to have some kind of opinion/belief, it doesn't stand up to not have some view, cause then you are just being ignorant.

Click to expand...

I believe in being honest. I do not know how the Universe came to be, but I admit that there are people who understand this problem a lot better then I do, and that they also are honest and admit they do not know the answer. But they want to find out, and they use the scientific method and try to discover the truth. They never assume anything, and they always base their opinions on the evidence. If new evidence comes along and tells them that they are wrong, they will change their opinion. It is called progress.

What they will not do is say "I do not know why this is, so god did it" That provides with no explanation and it does not ad any new inrformation to the problem.

Scientists understand the power of evidence and the scientific method.

You believe in god because it feels right for you. An atheist will believe in god when there is evidence that proves god exist. An atheist will not believe in god simply because that person has a question he or she does not know the answer to. If one did that, it would be surrendering to ignorance and not ever wanting to expand your understanding.
I could never do that to myself or anyone else.

God is simply not an explanation, it is an argument from ignorance. Nevermind that you can not prove god, you can not even tell me what this god is.

You ask me how did the Universe come to existence? How did your god come into existence? Who or what created god? What is god? Instead of providing an explanation, you end up creating more questions that can never be answered.

Science is the only way to answer any question, and the thing that makes science work is intellectual honesty and the will to learn and discover, and change your opinion if you are incorrect. This is the main factor why science is so succesful.

Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.).

So to some up, you are just ignorant.
You don't know...You don't have an answer so you choice to believe in 'nothing'.

Science can only answer what something is and how it works, it does not answer 'why'.
Eg, science can identify that pumping object in our body as a heart (thats the what), it can also tell us that it pumps blood round the body (thats the how), but it can not explain WHY the heart is even there in the first place! Why a heart? Why not a magical stone, or a clock attached to our veins that has an alarm like a bomb to signify our death.

Why do birds fly, what the point of a bird? If there is a point to a bird, then why is there that point? Do we need birds for something? If so, why do birds exist for that need?

Why do we have trees and leaves, how can you explain the clockwork miracle of life, how a tree gives out oxygen, which we so happen to need to stay alive, how a leaf can contain a chemical that will cure an illness, how a car needs earths finite resources to even work, and gives out C02 only for a tree to breath it in and turn it back to oxygen again for us to breath.

WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY!
Science doesnt have an answer.
You don't have an answer.
I dont have an answer...BUT
God is the answer to the unknown.

Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.).

.Butterflies. said:

Yeah you were fair Just when you said "many things written in the bible were done so because there was no other explanation at the time. In that way it IS outdated."

I was thinking of retaliating with the things that have been debunked by science with other explanations but are STILL taught/believed by many ... but like I said. I don't want to debate anyone because people are entitled to believe what they want.

Click to expand...

Hehe, I think you may have misunderstood me, because Im saying what you are

They didn't have advanced understanding of science so they blamed illness on sin, demons and the devil. They thought the Earth was a dome which simply is not true etc. I'm completely WITH you on this - it's stupid when fundamentalists continue to believe what is in the bible simply cos it's in there, when science says otherwise.

Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.).

Moogisland said:

So to some up, you are just ignorant.
You don't know...You don't have an answer so you choice to believe in 'nothing'.

Science can only answer what something is and how it works, it does not answer 'why'.
Eg, science can identify that pumping object in our body as a heart (thats the what), it can also tell us that it pumps blood round the body (thats the how), but it can not explain WHY the heart is even there in the first place! Why a heart? Why not a magical stone, or a clock attached to our veins that has an alarm like a bomb to signify our death.

Why do birds fly, what the point of a bird? If there is a point to a bird, then why is there that point? Do we need birds for something? If so, why do birds exist for that need?

Why do we have trees and leaves, how can you explain the clockwork miracle of life, how a tree gives out oxygen, which we so happen to need to stay alive, how a leaf can contain a chemical that will cure an illness, how a car needs earths finite resources to even work, and gives out C02 only for a tree to breath it in and turn it back to oxygen again for us to breath.

WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY!
Science doesnt have an answer.
You don't have an answer.
I dont have an answer...BUT
God is the answer to the unknown.

Click to expand...

Yes that is correct. I admit when I am ignorant and I don't pretend I know the answer when I don't. That would be lying to my fellow human being and that is not what I am about.

As to the why question, I would assume that you mean that there must be a reason for why things are the way the are. Sometimes that is correct and sometimes that is incorrect.

To answer that question you must first have a reason to believe that something is the way it is because it is supposed to be that way, or because something happened that made it that way. Why we have hearts is easy to explain. Our body requires oxygen and energy to function and we have a vascular system that holds the blood that contains these things we need. It also provides us with a system that can transport white blood wessels wich is our immune system that protects us from harmful organisms wich leads to illness.

For this to function we must have a heart that pumps this liquid through our body.

To further understand how this came into existence, we have the most powerful and most strongly supported by evidence explanation there is. Evolution by natural selection.

I have a feeling this field of science is not your strong point, based on your questions and I would advice you to further educate yourself on the matter.

Science is a tool of thought and it works on a set of rules.

The first honest enquiry in science when faced with a problem is to say "I do not know how or why this is" Only then can you ever hope to find an answer. If you however cheat and say you know when you can not prove it, even to yourself, science fails.

Why do birds exist? Because they can. What do we need them for? Why do you think asnything exist for our benefit? How does trees release O2? Uhm, it is called photosyntesis.

You just happen to be ignorant about things you can learn by simply doing research, and instead you hide from your ignorance about these questions and make up your own answer, wich is not even an answer in itself.

Why am I a boy and not a girl. I don't know so god did it. Why are all planets round and not square? I don't know so god did it.

Why can I see moving pictures in my TV screen. I don't know so god did it.

Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.).

Everything comes back to why.
Your answer to my question was evoloution but I can make it go further...Why does life require oxygen in the first place, even before evoloution? Looking at my periodic table I can see there are lots of different possibilities, but only oxgyen works for life. Why? maybe you will argue it is just by chance? We have been extremely lucky for everything to go right on earth to make life I hear you say, but coincedence doesn't do enough for me....there are simply to many links for it to just be luck imo.
Fact is, and I have tested people before with this lol, it doesn't matter how many questions you ask someone about existence and the 'whys', the answer always ends with 'maybe it is a god'. lol.
It happens everytime I quiz someone, they always end up going 'em, maybe there is a god'...cause they can't find another answer lol. It makes me laugh everytime.

Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.).

Moogisland said:

Everything comes back to why.
Your answer to my question was evoloution but I can make it go further...Why does life require oxygen in the first place, even before evoloution? Looking at my periodic table I can see there are lots of different possibilities, but only oxgyen works for life. Why? maybe you will argue it is just by chance? We have been extremely lucky for everything to go right on earth to make life I hear you say, but coincedence doesn't do enough for me....there are simply to many links for it to just be luck imo.
Fact is, and I have tested people before with this lol, it doesn't matter how many questions you ask someone about existence and the 'whys', the answer always ends with 'maybe it is a god'. lol.
It happens everytime I quiz someone, they always end up going 'em, maybe there is a god'...cause they can't find another answer lol. It makes me laugh everytime.

Click to expand...

Well again you argue from ignorance. There is no rule that says life can only exist with oxygen. Only the type of life on Earth can exist with oxygen, and that happend to be the case because our planet has oxygen, so life that can exist with oxygen will most likely exist if the right conditions occur. And yes we are extremely lucky to be here.

The Earth is 4.5 billion years old, and in that time 99% of all species that have ever lived here have been extinct. You have to understand that the time scale we are talking about is so big that the notion of chance is actually completely irrelevant. Chance could never have caused for life to exist, even evolve to the state it is in today. This is what evolution teaches us, that there are factors wich is not guided by chance that has to exist and occur for life to even have a chance. Evolution is the bi product of life. Life reproduces itself and it tries to survive. Evolution provides life with a better chance of survival and natural selection causes the organisms that has the best features for survival to survive.

We are made of cells, and cells are able to survive and evolve because there is oxygen. If this planet had never had oxygen, then life as we know it would not exist, but other forms of life could very well have existed. There is no law that states only oxygen can provide life.

And again, you completely miss my point here. All these things are irrelevant, because they do not address the issue we are actually discussing.

Why is your god the explanation for your ignorance, and why should anyone believe you when you can not even tell me what this god is or how you know? Why do you ignore my questions to you and respond with arguments that has already been answered and debunked so many times that one can wonder why people still use them.

You not knowing the answer to a question does not justify your answer that god did it.

Why is this so hard for you to understand? You don't know the answer, so stop pretending you do.

Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.).

Just checking in, because I don't know what atheism actually is..you believe nothing right? so what is the common thing binding atheism - that there is nothing? No God, no heaven.. just us on earth? EDIT :Oh and I forgot to say.. whats the difference from agnostic?

TheBob said:

I used to be a Christian. Then I did what most Christians don't do. I read the old testament and discovered all the evil in it. And I understood that this belief was not a good one, and that there are to many religions out there and that claiming yours to be the right one is wrong.

Click to expand...

I'll just let you know, I'm not sure about 'evil'... but it is not the old testament which is important.. that is why is it called the old testament. It is the new testament which is the basis, the new testament, with Christ messages - thats why they are called Christians. There wasn't Christianity before Christ. So its not 'cherry picking'. Christianity is from Christ - its more about the new testament, not the old.

TheBob said:

Fact of the matter is that it is a belief without evidence, and that is not a wise thing to do.

Click to expand...

There is evidence, historical and scientific of things mentioned in the Bible and there is evidence of miracles that have happened. And the rest is belief.. thats why it is called Faith.

Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.).

Rockin. said:

Just checking in, because I don't know what atheism actually is..you believe nothing right? so what is the common thing binding atheism - that there is nothing? No God, no heaven.. just us on earth?



I'll just let you know, I'm not sure about 'evil'... but it is not the old testament which is important.. that is why is it called the old testament. It is the new testament which is the basis, the new testament, with Christ messages - thats why they are called Christians. There wasn't Christianity before Christ.



There is evidence, historical and scientific of things mentioned in the Bible and there is evidence of miracles that have happened. And the rest is belief.. thats why it is called Faith.

Click to expand...

Atheism is a lack in a belief in god, nothing more and nothing less. Why do you think that because I do not believe in god I do not believe in anything? That does not make any sense, and it sounds condesending. I believe in honesty, knowledge, science, logic and reason. So yes I believe in many things, but I do not believe in things without evidence. That is just foolish. Just us on Earth? WTF? You know that there is a Universe out there that holds billions of galaxies with billions of stars in them, right? What makes us so special then I ask you?

The Bible according to Christians is the word of god. This means that the old AND the new testament are both the word of god. You might ignore the old testament, but that does not change the fact that you believe the Bible is the word of god, and you can not escape the fact that the Bible has two testamentts and they both according to your religion are the word of god.

And please don't say that there is evidence for miracles, god or anything that is in the Bible.

There exist only claims of these things and no evidence for it. You probably think that because a lot of people believe this then that must be true right? Wrong.

I find it irritating to hear people actually claim there is evidence for something when there is none. Stop making stuff up and provide some sources if you claim you know something.

Very interesting how I can address the level of intellectual dishonesty among you believers, and two seconds after I do that you prove my point, over and over and over again.

You wanna ask questions? Answer these questions then. Who or what created god? Why is the Christian religion and god the correct one? What about all the other thousands of religions that has existed as long as we humans have existed? Why is your Bible correct and the other religious texts wrong?

Why do you think that your belief is the correct one, when you can not even prove it?

That to me is arrogance at the highest level.

Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.).

Moogisland said:

Everything comes back to why.
Your answer to my question was evoloution but I can make it go further...Why does life require oxygen in the first place, even before evoloution? Looking at my periodic table I can see there are lots of different possibilities, but only oxgyen works for life. Why? maybe you will argue it is just by chance? We have been extremely lucky for everything to go right on earth to make life I hear you say, but coincedence doesn't do enough for me....there are simply to many links for it to just be luck imo.
Fact is, and I have tested people before with this lol, it doesn't matter how many questions you ask someone about existence and the 'whys', the answer always ends with 'maybe it is a god'. lol.
It happens everytime I quiz someone, they always end up going 'em, maybe there is a god'...cause they can't find another answer lol. It makes me laugh everytime.

Click to expand...

^ You just seem to be regurgitating the same question trying to get a different answer. You're trying to get him to say "Ok we can't explain this and that therefore there must be a God". That sums up the Christian faith. Contrarily, the whole rationale behind atheism is that it's not within man's intellectual capacity as of yet to answer certain questions about life, BUT, that doesn't necessarily mean that a 'God' is the answer to them.

You don't have proof that God is the answer, but you don't need proof you only need FAITH. And that is why an atheist cannot reason with a Christian; Because no amount of evidence or lack thereof can override 'faith' as faith doesn't require evidence or reasoning, that's the point of it.

So to the atheists; seriously... no amount of scientific facts -- no matter how detailed or fascinating is going to make them listen to you

And to the God believers: No amount of 'miracles', unanswered questions or biblical quotes is going to make them listen to you.

In other words children... give it up. Now hold hands, sing heal the world together and shut the f*** up. Thank you

Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.).

TheBob said:

Atheism is a lack in a belief in god, nothing more and nothing less. Why do you think that because I do not believe in god I do not believe in anything? That does not make any sense, and it sounds condesending. I believe in honesty, knowledge, science, logic and reason. So yes I believe in many things, but I do not believe in things without evidence. That is just foolish. Just us on Earth? WTF? You know that there is a Universe out there that holds billions of galaxies with billions of stars in them, right? What makes us so special then I ask you?

The Bible according to Christians is the word of god. This means that the old AND the new testament are both the word of god. You might ignore the old testament, but that does not change the fact that you believe the Bible is the word of god, and you can not escape the fact that the Bible has two testamentts and they both according to your religion are the word of god.

And please don't say that there is evidence for miracles, god or anything that is in the Bible.

There exist only claims of these things and no evidence for it. You probably think that because a lot of people believe this then that must be true right? Wrong.

I find it irritating to hear people actually claim there is evidence for something when there is none. Stop making stuff up and provide some sources if you claim you know something.

Very interesting how I can address the level of intellectual dishonesty among you believers, and two seconds after I do that you prove my point, over and over and over again.

You wanna ask questions? Answer these questions then. Who or what created god? Why is the Christian religion and god the correct one? What about all the other thousands of religions that has existed as long as we humans have existed? Why is your Bible correct and the other religious texts wrong?

Why do you think that your belief is the correct one, when you can not even prove it?

That to me is arrogance at the highest level.

Click to expand...

Well this is just RUDE. The poster asked questions out curiosity and you respond with hostility. Some people ACTUALLY don't know what atheism is, and how are they meant to learn without asking???? The person simply wanted to learn and you attack with statements like this:

"Very interesting how I can address the level of intellectual dishonesty among you believers, and two seconds after I do that you prove my point, over and over and over again."

As a believer who has been VERY open and within this thread and HONEST, I find that offensive.

Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.).

TheBob said:

Atheism is a lack in a belief in god, nothing more and nothing less. Why do you think that because I do not believe in god I do not believe in anything? That does not make any sense, and it sounds condesending. I believe in honesty, knowledge, science, logic and reason. So yes I believe in many things, but I do not believe in things without evidence. That is just foolish. Just us on Earth? WTF? You know that there is a Universe out there that holds billions of galaxies with billions of stars in them, right? What makes us so special then I ask you?

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Um, I meant so you believe nothing to do with religion..you don't think there is any afterlife of any kind? You don't need to hit back like that so angrily, I was asking a question in a genuine way, you took me WRONG.

The Bible according to Christians is the word of god. This means that the old AND the new testament are both the word of god. You might ignore the old testament, but that does not change the fact that you believe the Bible is the word of god, and you can not escape the fact that the Bible has two testamentts and they both according to your religion are the word of god.

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The Bible is there to be interpreted. Most Chrisians/Catholics I know even priests say 'the bible, the old testament is not everything'. The new testament is Christ message written by apostles. That is the important thing as far as im concerned.

And please don't say that there is evidence for miracles, god or anything that is in the Bible.

There exist only claims of these things and no evidence for it. You probably think that because a lot of people believe this then that must be true right? Wrong.

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Why shouldn't i say it.. there have been scientific tests done on evidence which exists which proves there was a Jesus Christ, and follows what is said in the bible about what happened to Jesus.

I find it irritating to hear people actually claim there is evidence for something when there is none. Stop making stuff up and provide some sources if you claim you know something.

Very interesting how I can address the level of intellectual dishonesty among you believers, and two seconds after I do that you prove my point, over and over and over again.

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What are you talking about - intellectual dishonesty? Perrhaps you should research yourself, why should I waste my time trying to convince you. Perhaps I will post you evidence, but I won't be in any hurry, because you are free to think what you think, but don't try and change anyone else's view by going into the Jesus thread and disrupting it. Who gives you the right to think that YOU are correct. That is arrogance. I wasn't being arrogant, I asked a question.. you misinterpreted it.. isn't it funny how people misinterpret things..

You wanna ask questions? Answer these questions then. Who or what created god? Why is the Christian religion and god the correct one? What about all the other thousands of religions that has existed as long as we humans have existed? Why is your Bible correct and the other religious texts wrong?

Why do you think that your belief is the correct one, when you can not even prove it?

That to me is arrogance at the highest level.

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who created God? lol.. how the hell do i know if anything created God.. I'm not the Pope.. ask him, I don't even know if he has even talked about that. Why should there have been anything before God..

I don't believe the Christian religion is necessarily the 'correct' one. When have I ever said that? All religions believe in a God. When did I say the Bible is correct and other religious texts are wrong? As long as people are good it doesn't matter...

.. can't you get it.. its not about proof. Its called belief..that word is no accident. Faith and Belief. Why call me arrogant? I didn't post anything arrogant. I never said christanity was the correct thing. I don't care I let people live their own life.

Don't come on the Jesus thread and try to convert people to stop being christian.. posting quotes from the old testament. I read ur first quote..You posted the 'eye for an eye' thing. Don't you know Jesus Christ said that teaching was wrong and said to 'turn the other cheek'

I came on here to find out what exactly an athiest is.. and corrected something you said and I was hit back like this. It is you that sounds arrogant. I'm done.

Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.).

.Butterflies. said:

^ You just seem to be regurgitating the same question trying to get a different answer. You're trying to get him to say "Ok we can't explain this and that therefore there must be a God". That sums up the Christian faith. Contrarily, the whole rationale behind atheism is that it's not within man's intellectual capacity as of yet to answer certain questions about life, BUT, that doesn't necessarily mean that a 'God' is the answer to them.

You don't have proof that God is the answer, but you don't need proof you only need FAITH. And that is why an atheist cannot reason with a Christian; Because no amount of evidence or lack thereof can override 'faith' as faith doesn't require evidence or reasoning, that's the point of it.

So to the atheists; seriously... no amount of scientific facts -- no matter how detailed or fascinating is going to make them listen to you

And to the God believers: No amount of 'miracles' or biblical quotes is going to make them listen to you.

In other words children... give it up. Now hold hands, sing heal the world together and shut the f** up. Thank you

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Bolded part is not entirely true. I do infact listen to both sides because that is respectful and I have respect for people's right to an opinion. I know many people who believe, flat out dont, and those who are agnostic who all enjoy discussions on this subject where we each in turn listen and learn from each other.

Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.).

By 'listen to you' in the context I didn't literally mean listen, I meant they are not going to 'listen to you' as in 'change their opinion'. I bet you by the end of this thread there won't be a single person would have changed their stance.

Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.).

Maybe not on something as strong as believing or not, but I have certainly encountered discussions in which I really do learn and have a chance to reflect and re-evaluate my own system of beliefs. This thread could be a very stimulating, informative discourse between many different people.

Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.).

Personally i do believe in a god, i think anythings possible when i look at the world around me and what i have!
But i follow no religion, because i believe religion just causes war and conflict, which is kind of shown in this thread! I believe if there is a god, and an after life, as long as we are good people, we will be rewarded, i dont feel the need to follow a book to tell me how to be a good person, or to obay a god that may or may not be, not that i think wrong of anyone who does!
I think we have to have belife in things, beliefe is what makes the world carry on, what makes us want to improve our world!

Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.).

StarSecret said:

Maybe not on something as strong as believing or not, but I have certainly encountered discussions in which I really do learn and have a chance to reflect and re-evaluate my own system of beliefs. This thread could be a very stimulating, informative discourse between many different people.

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I hope thats what happens. I just find religious conversations between people, especially between those whose opinions are so radically different to each other, more often than not end up going downhill because people can get very defensive about God. It can easily resort to name calling or offensive behavior when unable to persuade someone of what YOU believe. Religion is a very touchy subject after all. I wish everyone had your open mindedness

Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.).

The arguments happened because thebob made insulting statements and as an atheist seems to want to prove believers that they are wrong.

Let people believe what they want to, and we'll leave you to believe what you want.

It helps people a lot to have belief in God. Michael mentions heaven, Jesus, the Lord, God, praying, faith, belief in songs and in interviews...perhaps it helped him to have the faith.

Why try to go out of your way to tear down peoples beliefs? Why insult people? Just don't believe if you don't want to.

Openmindedness works both ways.

And thanks StarSecret for realising I was just asking a question before, there was no need for thebob to react like that.

Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.).

Rockin. said:

The arguments happened because thebob made insulting statements and as an atheist seems to want to prove believers that they are wrong.

Let people believe what they want to, and we'll leave you to believe what you want.

It helps people a lot to have belief in God. Michael mentions heaven, Jesus, the Lord, God, praying, faith, belief in songs and in interviews...perhaps it helped him to have the faith.

Why try to go out of your way to tear down peoples beliefs? Why insult people? Just don't believe if you don't want to.

Openmindedness works both ways.

And thanks StarSecret for realising I was just asking a question before, there was no need for thebob to react like that.

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When people say the believe something that is one thing. When they claim they know something and can not prove it, that is a dishonest position and should always be called upon. If that person gets insulted because their belief is debunked, then the belief was never strong in the first place and the person who has that belief should not be granted points or respect.

If one has questions that is ok and good. But when does not know the answer and claim that no one else can know it either and therfore it is evidence for god, then that is a dishonest position and again should be called upon.

The questions were not asked because one wanted to know. The questions were asked as an argument to prove the validity of their default position. I not only answered their questions I pointed out why they asked them and gave them a reality check I know had not crossed their mind. Again feeling insulted because your default position was made a mockery of deserves no respect.

This is an atheist thread, if you wanna spout ignorance here, be perpared to be called upon that. If you can't handle the level of truth that comes out, then don't come here.

You believers have hijacked every other thread with your faith and beliefs. This one is for the skeptics, and here a believer should have no virtue for any belief. Atheism is about intellectual honesty and when you can not play by those rules, you WILL be called upon.

Only way to beat that is to cheat and call the cops and kick people out.

The fact that people don't care wether their belief holds any truth is not only disturbing it is actually damaging for society. Lack of education is no excuse for ignorance.

The human race learned this the hard way a few hundred years ago during what historians call the Dark Ages. You want this to happen again? Do you know what happened during the dark ages? Better pick up those books and start learning

Take responsibility for your lives and stop making excuses. Your actions and opinions have consequences for everyone. Time to wake up and smell the coffee. I did that years ago and I am now pissed off at how people let themselves be so gullible and naive.

If you find my posts insulting, let me tell you I have answered every post with simple logic and reason in what is actually a polite way. Here is how I really feel. People who claim god exist, are full of shit.

The Bible is bullshit and religion will always be evil and always exist as long as people continue to have blind faith.

Christians in the US have actually said that there is no point in dealing with problems in the world, global warming etc, because God will take care of us.

Do you understand how dangerous this is, and why this is the main reason why belief should never be treated as a virtue??