Atheist thread

ill go out on a limb here and say im neither an atheist or a believer in christ (as the bible paints it). ive often found the whole i believe in christ bible thing a bit strange but think it comes down to people wanting to believe there is more to life after death and that the bad and wicked will be punished and the good will be rewarded. the whole idea of a god who created the world and sits back observing all the bloodshed carried out is a bit mad but then religion often comes down to personal belief. in many ways im sort of glad people believe in god because it helps keep the masses in line. can you imagine the chaos that would happen if someone could prove god didnt exist?

basically i think people should be free to believe what they want and maybe there is something more but i dont believe the answers come from the interpretations of the original text in the bible nor many of the corrupt members in the church who preach one thing and practice another

The chaos you describe may be a valid point 500 years ago, even 100 years ago.

But the modern world we know today is a world where information floats free.

Humanity have in the 20th century up until now proven that the solution not only to our problems but our survival is education and science. There is no longer a need for faith OR religion to "keep the masses in line" We are capable of creating laws and we have a society that rewards people for good behavior and punishes for bad behavior. But we do more then that. We try to discover how such behavior exists and why it happens and it gives us the power to prevent it from happening again. Simply punishing people is not always the best solution. Many believe that having a death penalty is an effective way of discouraging bad behavior but history and statistics show that this is not the case.

My country has no death sentence and no life sentence, yet we have the lowest crime rate on Earth (charted and documented by the UN human development program)


The US has the death penalty and life sentence, and one of the worlds highest crime rates.

Our prisons do not look like most prisons you may know of. Prisoners live like normal human beings, they work and they have schools to get education. By giving people the opportunity to better themselves they come out of prison as functioning members of society. Only a few retracts back to the criminal behavior they had before they went to prison, but most are able to lead productive lives.

To prevent future born citizens to fall into the destructive pattern of being criminals or violent, governments fund scientific studies of where and how these behaviors come from.

By doing so, one is able to take necessary steps to prevent this from happening and going out of control. But it is not working perfect yet, as this is a rather new way of dealing with a societies social problems. There are forces that retards this development, and religion has played a huge role in this. This is why more countries now keep religion out of politics, as history has shown that trying to control the masses by dogma will always in the end backfire. By letting your whole life be ruled by dogma, and letting your emotional and intellectual integrity be controlled like this, you create a chain reaction in the society and the problems never go away or even seem to get better. They stay the same, and no matter how hard you punish people, there will always be new one's doing the same evil things.

The world will never reach a state where we can see peace and prosperity throughout the entire population, unless ALL societies start to work with their problems in a methodical scientific and rational manner.
 
Wow, what a bunch of logic in here....

Feels like being on Vulcan ;).
 
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r


Now back on topic....lol
 
Yes, a thread about PTSD would be nice. There you could perhaps offer some valuable info. It's very serious confition of course. I've known some personal examples as well. I believe the people who comitted suicide would be susceptible to this but would also have prior undiagnosed phychological issues in order to reach that far as to commit suicide. In terms of thread safety, yes, perhaps it would be wiser to wait a little longer to get over the various stages of grief, but... that's not very possible... New threads will pop up and replace the old ones, if not on this forum then on many many others. I do stand by my position however that as long as you are careful and trust your gut instint, then everything should be fine when dealing with "supernatural" situations.
I should be sleeping now, so I'd better go. lol Talk later... :)

Lovely post!!
 
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This is a duplicate-ish of the last post I commented on. Too many edits in my original version, LOL. Sleep... YES... GAH... I'm Coming...



Such a lovely post yet again, sunnyday81. I suffer from PTSD and have a panic/anxiety disorder as well. And yes... I have been suicidal many times (something I obviously don't tell people because people are ignorant--though I am NOT suicidal anymore).

I TRULY believe that if someone didn't have the faith that I had at the time (as well as the medication, too, yes) I was suffering, they would have "offed themselves" a long, LONG time ago. I just continued to pray, pray, pray for healing, and that I would make it through the rain--and I did. :)

But I believe my full spirituality came back just a few months ago. It was weird... I just felt that "energy" around me again that I never thought I would feel again in my life because of all the tragedies I experienced in such a short amount of time.

I consider myself a survivor, and I still pray everyday for my complete healing. And I believe I will completely heal... :angel:
 
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i like to contribute to the bit about the 'does god exist?'

ok look around you, you may have a sofa, mirror, tv, wardrobe, computer, carpet, wallpaper, floorboards, cupboards, cup, food etc etc...they were made by SOMEONE right??

bricks, insulation, buildings etc....made by SOMEONE right??

so obviously we must have been created by SOMETHING right??

and the whole evolutions theory...if we evolved from apes...apes still exist, how come their not evolving now?? and who created the apes...must be SOMETHING right??


anyways...i'd just like to share my point of view, i respect all religions and i find it beautiful that michael had fans from every aspect :)
 
i like to contribute to the bit about the 'does god exist?'

ok look around you, you may have a sofa, mirror, tv, wardrobe, computer, carpet, wallpaper, floorboards, cupboards, cup, food etc etc...they were made by SOMEONE right??

bricks, insulation, buildings etc....made by SOMEONE right??

so obviously we must have been created by SOMETHING right??

and the whole evolutions theory...if we evolved from apes...apes still exist, how come their not evolving now?? and who created the apes...must be SOMETHING right??


anyways...i'd just like to share my point of view, i respect all religions and i find it beautiful that michael had fans from every aspect :)

First, evolution does not state we evolved from apes. Secondly apes are not one single species, it is a classification of a group of primate species. Monkeys and humans evolved from a common ancestor. That ancestor was a primate, as we AND monkeys are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primate

The argument that if we evolved from apes( or monkeys as I assume that is what you actually meant), then there should not be apes here is incorrect. Evolution does not predict that ALL specimens of a species should evolve in the same direction. We have various types of animals that have similar characteristics and are defined as same species, but at the same time they have different trades. This is because evolution predicts that the environment and living conditions is what causes the changes to happen. The mechanism that guides these changes is called natural selection.

You should do some research about this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

Second. The argument that things we know about such as chairs, and other objects and that they are created, therefore so must everything else is circular and incorrect.

Normal day things like furniture are things that can not exist unless put together by various parts. They can not form by any naturalistic causes other then humans putting them together. This does not apply with matter in the Universe. Natural laws and gravity, chemistry and general physics is what causes planets, stars, gas clouds etc to be formed. They were not created, they were formed. Life is very complex and can look designed, but we have very good explanation of how it formed. Biological evolution by natural selection over vast periods of time(millions of years)

The point here is that the argument "it looks designed so it must have a designer" is in the end a logical fallacy as it does not provide with an explanation. If you apply the "Designer" argument" you must then apply an explanation for the designer. Where did the designer come from? Instead of coming up with explanations, you end up creating more questions then you had when you started. Some may find the "God idea" satisfactory, but it is not an explanation in scientific terms.

Crystals are the most complex structures we know of and the chance of something like that forming by simple naturalistic causes is 1:1000000

Still, we have a perfectly good explanation as to how it is formed and the cause for it to be formed is pure naturalistic.

http://www.chemistry.co.nz/crystals_forming.htm

There are a lot of things in the Universe that is highly improbable to exist. Life is perhaps as far as we know the most unlikely thing to exist. But it exists. To say that there is no way this could exist by chance, so there must have been a creator again provides with no explanation. You only end up with unsubstantiated assertions.

The logical explanation of something improbable to exist is naturalistic causes + time.

Also, there is no evidence any matter or energy was ever created. The second law of thermodynamics confirms this. Energy is eternal, and the best theory we have for the formation of the Universe is The Big Bang Theory, wich is confirmed by cosmology(it is important to understand that the Universe was formed by natural forces and not created/poofed out of nowhere, many misunderstand the scientific theory of The Big Bang and assume it says the Universe came from nothing, wich is incorrect)

The explanation as to how something is able to exist is physics. Apply matter, energy, the second law of thermodynamics + time you will end up with something existing, no matter how improbable it is. But it can only exist with these naturalistic laws.

God does not provide with a scientific explanation for the formation of the Universe, and the idea contradicts logic in every way. It is still possible that such an improbable entity can exist, but without an empirical theory backed up by evidence, the idea is a dead end. For God to be the explanation you have to explain God.

Here is an analogy that demonstrates this logic.

A painting is 100% proof there was a painter. Why? Actually it is not proof there was a painter. The evidence that shows this painting was created by a painter is the explanation of the painter. We know humans paint, so we can by that knowledge identify the painting. We know what must be done for a painting to exist, and there are no naturalistic causes that can create this painting without a painter.

We have perfectly sound theoretical explanations how the Universe and all in it formed.

What we don't know yet is what happened before the Universe, but that does not mean the question can never be answered. Scientists simply ignore the God argument, not because they are heathens who do not want to believe in the creator, but because the God idea does not provide any explanation that scientists can work with. Instead they apply the science we already have and use the scientific method to find the answer. Right now physicists are working on combining The Theory of Relativity/created by Albert Einstein with quantum mechanics. This is because at the very first nanosecond after the Universe began to expand, the laws of physics break down. This means that the normal assertion that something had to start it all does not work anymore. The principle of cause and effect are useless in that small time period after the Big Bang, because the density of matter was to great at that moment.

The current best explanation of what happened before The Big Bang is inflation. Before that there was no time, so there was no beginning. This is off course hard to accept as the human brain is programmed to identify patterns, and a notion that something did not have a beginning does not compute. But we still need and have to explain that notion with logic. Many use this paradox idea that something did not have a beginning as an argument for God. But the problem is that you then automatically need to explain God, and that is where Theology fails. Instead, scientists use the scientific method, and right now the best theory for explaining infinity is the Multiverse theory. Universes exist everywhere and they are constantly formed. The physical explanation that predicts this to be happening is black holes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse



Hope I helped in understanding the logic in these arguments.
 
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i'm a scientist by job. i know what natural selection etc is. i even questioned my scientist lecturers back in uni asking them...yeah you know how this happpens and you can explain it...but WHY does this happen, they said we don't know.

who created gravity etc??

you know all these scientific discoveries, that are being discovered today are already stated in the quran by the way.

and plus islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. there must be a reason for this but i respect your views...in the near future you may change your mind but you may not either.
 
i'm a scientist by job. i know what natural selection etc is. i even questioned my scientist lecturers back in uni asking them...yeah you know how this happpens and you can explain it...but WHY does this happen, they said we don't know.

who created gravity etc??

you know all these scientific discoveries, that are being discovered today are already stated in the quran by the way.

and plus islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. there must be a reason for this but i respect your views...in the near future you may change your mind but you may not either.

Nothing created these things. I explained this in my last post about the logical fallacy of assuming that everything wich exists must have been created. We know very well why Natural Selection exists, and it is perfectly explained in The Theory Of Evolution.

Natural Selection is not a mechanism that was created. It is a mechanism that is a result of self replicating DNA trying to survive in different environments. It is a driving force, a bi product of changing conditions. Natural selection is just another word for "Survival of the fittest". The organism with the better features for survival will be more likely to survive, and pass on its genes. Evolution will therefore be guided by this effect.

And again with gravity, you assume it was created. Gravity is also a bi product of natural forces. The motion of matter + its total mass causes it to have gravity. We don't know yet why moving matter attracts other moving matter, only how. That does not mean some magic sky daddy did it. When you apply god to every little thing one cannot explain, you end up explaining nothing. That is why science avoid god all together, because it ads nothing to any discovery, it just fills a gap of knowledge with assertions wich gets us nowhere in regards of understanding the Universe.

The answer is in science, and only with the scientific method can we hope to discover why things are the way they are.

And I have to address your statement about The Quran. First you need to know that The Quran was edited by the Greeks, who put in certain basic scientific facts. These were not scientific discoveries, but simple empirical observations they explained with simple logic. Like the light from the moon being the light reflection from the sun etc. To say that book talks about scientific discoveries we make today is false. Show me where the quran talks about Quantum Physics.

But if the Greeks had not been responsible for these things in the quran, it still would be irrelevant, because it does not prove there was a god.

If you understand the scientific method, you understand the logical fallacy of assuming that anything was created.

And finally, it is irrelevant how fast a religion is growing, or how many people believe in god. It does not mean that it is likely that a god exits. Only a few centuries ago EVERYONE on Earth thought the planet was flat. But they were all wrong. What people believe does not justify for evidence. Belief is not knowledge.
 
NO! the quran has never been edited by anyone, the quran has been the same for centuries since it was revealed to the prophet (saws). you need to get your facts about that. people have learnt the quran off by heart back then and have continued to learn it to this day, (these people are called hafiz's, look it up) so nothing has changed!!!

and another point, our fingerprint. theres billions of people around the world and everyone has their own individual fingerprint. how can you scientifically prove that??

we are so complex..how can we not have been created by something greater??

end of the day, your a atheist, i am not, we could have this arguments for days....we're going to find out when we die anyway :)
 
I'm an athiest. When I was little I did go to chruch and I know the stories of the bible and all that, but I stopped attending when I was 11. I didn't want to go to church it was my mum who made me.
I'm the type of person who believes it when I see it. I need proof. Science is proof enough for me. I just can't get my head around the bible and the whole god thing. I mean how was the bible written, I mean its word for word what people said back in those days, how's that possible, was big brother watching their every move, noting down every word? Plus for me there's too much rules to religion, I don't like rules lol plus There is so much evil in this world today for me to believe that there is a Gos.
I sorta thing that you know how people invented the boogie man you know , " go to bed or boogie man will get you, he's hiding under the stairs" the purpose of inventing the boogie man was to scare people you know, I think that people think of god like a comfort blanket sorta thing, does that make sense?
Don't get me wrong , I have the utmost respect for people who do believe, who have faith. I respect them, their views and I would never try to discourage their beliefs. To me that shows bravery, your putting you trust your belief in something that you cannot see or proof yet you have the guts to believe. In dark times people trun to their faith. Me I turn to Michael.


But....saying all that , with Michael gone, and my baby bunny :( and my Taid who I lost 7 years ago and loved very much - with all them gone , it sorta played with my mind. It makes me WANT to believe you know, that they've gone to heaven and their my guardian angels now. I WANT to believe that they're looking down on me. I want there to be a heaven, I want there to be such things as angels and in a way I'm scared. I'm scared of faith, I'm scared of putting my belief, my trust to something, to someone that I can't see , that hasn't been proven. Does that makes sense?
 
I'm an athiest. When I was little I did go to chruch and I know the stories of the bible and all that, but I stopped attending when I was 11. I didn't want to go to church it was my mum who made me.
I'm the type of person who believes it when I see it. I need proof. Science is proof enough for me. I just can't get my head around the bible and the whole god thing. I mean how was the bible written, I mean its word for word what people said back in those days, how's that possible, was big brother watching their every move, noting down every word? Plus for me there's too much rules to religion, I don't like rules lol plus There is so much evil in this world today for me to believe that there is a Gos.
I sorta thing that you know how people invented the boogie man you know , " go to bed or boogie man will get you, he's hiding under the stairs" the purpose of inventing the boogie man was to scare people you know, I think that people think of god like a comfort blanket sorta thing, does that make sense?
Don't get me wrong , I have the utmost respect for people who do believe, who have faith. I respect them, their views and I would never try to discourage their beliefs. To me that shows bravery, your putting you trust your belief in something that you cannot see or proof yet you have the guts to believe. In dark times people trun to their faith. Me I turn to Michael.


But....saying all that , with Michael gone, and my baby bunny :( and my Taid who I lost 7 years ago and loved very much - with all them gone , it sorta played with my mind. It makes me WANT to believe you know, that they've gone to heaven and their my guardian angels now. I WANT to believe that they're looking down on me. I want there to be a heaven, I want there to be such things as angels and in a way I'm scared. I'm scared of faith, I'm scared of putting my belief, my trust to something, to someone that I can't see , that hasn't been proven. Does that makes sense?

I completely understand what you are saying and where you are coming from. Every part of it.

However, I'm a strong believer of God. I believe in heaven, hell, angels and the devil. I was raised as a muslim but I don't follow one religion anymore. I say "I'm a follower of God, no matter where he is". I just take a bit of islam, christianity and mix them with my own personal beliefs. LOL. No one knows for sure what the truth is.

I see where you are come from though. However, science doesn't do it for it. It ain't deep enough. I think there is more to life than we see.
 
I completely understand what you are saying and where you are coming from. Every part of it.

However, I'm a strong believer of God. I believe in heaven, hell, angels and the devil. I was raised as a muslim but I don't follow one religion anymore. I say "I'm a follower of God, no matter where he is". I just take a bit of islam, christianity and mix them with my own personal beliefs. LOL. No one knows for sure what the truth is.

I see where you are come from though. However, science doesn't do it for it. It ain't deep enough. I think there is more to life than we see.

I strongly believe in fate, destiny & luck . I'd say I'm spiritual. I'm very superstitous. If something in my life goes wrong or not according to plan I believe that I'm being punished. I believe things happen for a reason, or someone is trying to tell you something, and I truly believe that animals are very symbolic, all of them serve a purpose ( I sound like a real nut now, bear with me!!! lol) I love nature and all its animals, science has proven you know how animals evolved and how trees and plants live , but If I believe that animals are symbolic then surley there must be more than just science behind them?
I'm really confused in what my belief is. If I believe that I'm being punished, and that animals are symbolic then surely deep down, without knowing myself, that I do believe in God, but then I know in my mind that I don't, I've never have. Its really hard to explian how I feel about this, its hard to put into words.

Sorry if my ramblings don't make sense
I truly respect you for your trust in God, I would never try to discourage anyone from their faith.
 
I strongly believe in fate, destiny & luck . I'd say I'm spiritual. I'm very superstitous. If something in my life goes wrong or not according to plan I believe that I'm being punished. I believe things happen for a reason, or someone is trying to tell you something, and I truly believe that animals are very symbolic, all of them serve a purpose ( I sound like a real nut now, bear with me!!! lol) I love nature and all its animals, science has proven you know how animals evolved and how trees and plants live , but If I believe that animals are symbolic then surley there must be more than just science behind them?
I'm really confused in what my belief is. If I believe that I'm being punished, and that animals are symbolic then surely deep down, without knowing myself, that I do believe in God, but then I know in my mind that I don't, I've never have. Its really hard to explian how I feel about this, its hard to put into words.

Sorry if my ramblings don't make sense
I truly respect you for your trust in God, I would never try to discourage anyone from their faith.

Maybe you are in the middle of a warzone between your mind and your heart. You'll get there someday. You'll figure out your own way.

Alot of the things you say are what believers tend to say but then again, I understand you don't believe in God because there is no proof. Only personal experiences and one's heart leads people to God, I guess.

As life changes, you'll figure out for yourself wheather you believe or not. :yes:
 
NO! the quran has never been edited by anyone, the quran has been the same for centuries since it was revealed to the prophet (saws). you need to get your facts about that. people have learnt the quran off by heart back then and have continued to learn it to this day, (these people are called hafiz's, look it up) so nothing has changed!!!

and another point, our fingerprint. theres billions of people around the world and everyone has their own individual fingerprint. how can you scientifically prove that??

we are so complex..how can we not have been created by something greater??

end of the day, your a atheist, i am not, we could have this arguments for days....we're going to find out when we die anyway :)

If you do the proper research, you will find that the Quran was edited by the greeks. It has been verified a long time ago. If you want to deny that, that is your right, but no need to get upset.

And I want to address some of your points. First, just because YOU don't know the answer to a question, does not mean nobody else can know either.

Scientists do not know everything, but that is not an argument for religion or God. That is why we have the scientific method, so that we can learn.

Why we have fingerprints has been and is being studied by scientists.

Here is some info on what they have found out. But remember, just because they don't know the answer yet does not mean it can not be answered or that it is proof of any god.

This is important to understand. Absence of evidence is not proof of existence. It can never be, because existence is a physical definition. I feel it is important to understand that words have meanings, and that one can not throw them around and make up any definition you want it to be. Language is for a purpose and that purpose is to communicate information and thoughts. Existence is a word created by man, and it has a meaning. If we assign our own definition to the words, language becomes pointless. Words has and must have a universal meaning to it, otherwise it will not work.

If you claim that a god exists and you can not demonstrate how this exists or even what the word means, your claim is and should be rejected. It does not matter how much you believe. This is something I find disturbing, as how some people think that belief is the same as evidence.

Here is some info on fingerprints as promised. I did not know the answer, so I researched a little. Today we have the internet and it is a shame that so many people do not use it to learn more about things you want to know.

http://askville.amazon.com/fingerprints-purpose/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=702122

http://www.physorg.com/news158088270.html

And finally I want to address another point you made. "There is more to life then we see"

What does that mean? The human eye can only see a few per cent of the light spectrum.

There is so much we can not possibly see, but we develop technology and understanding to see the things the eye can not see. So I really do not understand the argument.

If you mean that life has a purpose then we are talking about assigning a meaning to something, but without proving it. Why must life have a purpose or a meaning? When people use this argument, the most common logical evidence is emotional appeal. It is understandable as it is human nature to want more then what is. But the problem is that it is a subjective interpretation of what already is. It does not ad any new information and it does not answer any questions. Life just is. It exists because it can exist. What meaning it holds depends on life itself.

When I think about such things, I often remember a saying. "Life is what you make of it"

YOU decide what meaning your life holds. But at the same time it is important to understand that the Universe does not care about life. There is no cosmic meaning to life.

If the sun suddenly changes in its behavior, life on Earth is doomed. If a meteor hits Earth we would most certainly die. Life is fragile. Over the course of Earth's history 99% of all species have been extinct. Life is like a fungus. It grows, and if only a few per cent of its material survives it will continue to grow. A very harsh but true comparison.

I wish people would not get so beat up about the fact that we are small ants compared to the size of the Universe. Humanity wants to be special and that is natural. But it holds no truth when we look at the Universe. We are most likely one planet of many in the Universe with life. What is so special about us? Why should we grant ourselves meaning in a cosmos so big, our existence is barely noticed throughout its entire reach?

To address your last point also. "life is so complex, how can it not have been created by something greater"

Why should it? We have a very good understanding of how simple things become complex things. And when you say something greater must have created something complex, you automatically have to explain how that "greater thing" came into existence.

For something to create something complex, it must also be complex. And that is where you end up with a none answerable question. What or who created god?
 
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I strongly believe in fate, destiny & luck . I'd say I'm spiritual. I'm very superstitous. If something in my life goes wrong or not according to plan I believe that I'm being punished. I believe things happen for a reason, or someone is trying to tell you something, and I truly believe that animals are very symbolic, all of them serve a purpose ( I sound like a real nut now, bear with me!!! lol) I love nature and all its animals, science has proven you know how animals evolved and how trees and plants live , but If I believe that animals are symbolic then surley there must be more than just science behind them?
I'm really confused in what my belief is. If I believe that I'm being punished, and that animals are symbolic then surely deep down, without knowing myself, that I do believe in God, but then I know in my mind that I don't, I've never have. Its really hard to explian how I feel about this, its hard to put into words.

Sorry if my ramblings don't make sense
I truly respect you for your trust in God, I would never try to discourage anyone from their faith.

I actually believe in Karma. Not in a spiritual way, but more like something called the butterfly effect. Everything that happens, happens because something else happened before that. It is a nice physical law called cause and effect. Also, if one study something called Chaos theory, one gets a little insight on how events occur and how our lives are effected each day by even the smallest things. But at the same time I believe in taking responsibility for your actions, and finding out why certain things happen. I have had a lot of bad things happen to me in my life, but I never thought of it as punishment. I also have done things I am not proud of and sometimes they have come back to haunt me, lol. But I never saw it as punishment. I came to understand by reading psychology, that the things we experience help shape our personalities and how we feel about ourselves and the world.

These experiences shape our world and they influences us in our decisions for the future.

What we see, hear, taste, smell and feel are all manifestations of chemical stimuli, and how we view things are only subjective interpretation of stimuli. This explains why some people have different views of same things. Like some people feel having lots of money is a good thing while others feel it only makes life worse.

It boils down to how our senses and our emotions are interconnected. Unfortunately evolution has not yet granted us the ability to completely separate emotions from thought.

Only a few people are able to handle this, and they go through extensive training to be able to. Like doctors, or soldiers. In the proffesional world people have to learn how to make decisions without letting it be guided by emotions.

Science is not a thing or a concept, it is a tool of thought. Animals are not the way they are because of science. They are the way they are because of nature. Science is the tool that helps us figure out why things are the way they are, why things happen and what effects such things can have on the world and people.

It gives us the power to probe nature and test out if what we think is happening is what is actually happening, or why it happens. It gives us the power to better our lives.

The fact that our emotions are interconnected with our thoughts is why we make mistakes.

The scientific method gives us the power to correct mistakes and learn from them.

This method is used everywhere in everything. Every laywer, every doctor, every scientists must learn this method of thought in school before they can work in their field.

People who do not have such occupations also sometime learn this method.

It is the single most powerful method to gain understanding.

This is why kids are introduced to science early on in school. By teaching kids how to think critically and analyze information, we not only prepare them for life, but we help them develop their intellect.

The most prudent course of action in any situation in life, is to critically analyze events, information, thoughts and emotions. This is why being a skeptic is always the wise course of action.

Belief can be a nice comforting thing, but it can also be your worst enemy. The comfort is only a short term solution and it will never give you the insight into life that will guide your desicions in the future. Knowledge and understanding IS power:)

Always knowing why you believe a thing, and always critically analyzing the belief when exposed to new information and willingly be able to change your opinion if the evidence tells you that you are incorrect, will give you the power not only to learn from your experiences, but to be able to better the world. Believing something because it feels good or because you want it to be true will only in the end make you weaker and less prepared for the future. Learn from history, because humanity has learned this throughout all of history, and we should learn from ourselves.

The scientific method is responsible for EVERYTHING in your life.

Your computer, your food, your medicine, your house, your car, your job, every little thing you own, everything you can do. Without this method of thought, we would still be living in caves. Michael Jackson would never have been The King Of Pop if he did not have the technology at his hands and by himself learn how to think like a scientist. Michael was a scientist when it comes to music.

The scientific method also took us from the dark ages to the age of enlightenment.

This is why I fight religion. Religion does not want you to learn or understand or question your belief. Religion fights science everyday. People of faith spread false information about science and scientific facts to people who are not educated. Religion is responsible for the Dark Ages and it is responsible for why we still have poverty, war and conflict in the world.

Some would now tell me "no no, people are responsible" Wrong. Without this ideology that advocates ignorance, all these bad things would not exist. People are selfish and faith fuels the self involved.

ALWAYS question your beliefs. ALWAYS question other people's beliefs. Don't worry, you are not taking away their right to believe because that right only means they can not be arrested or shot down for having it. But to allow belief without evidence to be a virtue, you allow for ignorance to be the influence of our future.

It is ok to have questions. It is even more Ok to say "I do not know" It is OK to have a belief, as long as you are honest and admit this is only a belief not fact.

But when you go from "I do not know" to "I believe what I believe because it feels right, and it is the truth for me" You automatically fool yourself. And if you pass that way of thinking onto your kids, you rob them of the opportunity to experience life as it is, and learn from it.

There are things I hate hearing from people, and there are things I wish people would never say even if they have the right. Because a lot of people abuse their right to free speech. I usually let such people ramble on as long as it doesn't affect me or anyone else in a negative way.

But when a person tells me they know because they believe, my brain explodes. Not because I can not stand the fact that they have the right to believe, but because their belief has a negative effect on the world and they are not honest enough to admit "I do not know why this is"

That is why I hate psychics. Psychics are full of it. I know because everytime someone critically analyze what they say, their explanations always end up in BS.

Not one single psychic has ever been able to prove they are a psychic. Same with healers.

The explanation is always the same. "A lot of people say they were healed"

A lot of people say they saw Elvis also.
 
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I actually believe in Karma. Not in a spiritual way, but more like something called the butterfly effect. Everything that happens, happens because something else happened before that. It is a nice physical law called cause and effect. Also, if one study something called Chaos theory, one gets a little insight on how events occur and how our lives are effected each day by even the smallest things. But at the same time I believe in taking responsibility for your actions, and finding out why certain things happen. I have had a lot of bad things happen to me in my life, but I never thought of it as punishment. I also have done things I am not proud of and sometimes they have come back to haunt me, lol. But I never saw it as punishment. I came to understand by reading psychology, that the things we experience help shape our personalities and how we feel about ourselves and the world.

These experiences shape our world and they influences us in our decisions for the future.

What we see, hear, taste, smell and feel are all manifestations of chemical stimuli, and how we view things are only subjective interpretation of stimuli. This explains why some people have different views of same things. Like some people feel having lots of money is a good thing while others feel it only makes life worse.

It boils down to how our senses and our emotions are interconnected. Unfortunately evolution has not yet granted us the ability to completely separate emotions from thought.

Only a few people are able to handle this, and they go through extensive training to be able to. Like doctors, or soldiers. In the proffesional world people have to learn how to make decisions without letting it be guided by emotions.

Science is not a thing or a concept, it is a tool of thought. Animals are not the way they are because of science. They are the way they are because of nature. Science is the tool that helps us figure out why things are the way they are, why things happen and what effects such things can have on the world and people.

It gives us the power to probe nature and test out if what we think is happening is what is actually happening, or why it happens. It gives us the power to better our lives.

The fact that our emotions are interconnected with our thoughts is why we make mistakes.

The scientific method gives us the power to correct mistakes and learn from them.

This method is used everywhere in everything. Every laywer, every doctor, every scientists must learn this method of thought in school before they can work in their field.

People who do not have such occupations also sometime learn this method.

It is the single most powerful method to gain understanding.

This is why kids are introduced to science early on in school. By teaching kids how to think critically and analyze information, we not only prepare them for life, but we help them develop their intellect.

The most prudent course of action in any situation in life, is to critically analyze events, information, thoughts and emotions. This is why being a skeptic is always the wise course of action.

Belief can be a nice comforting thing, but it can also be your worst enemy. The comfort is only a short term solution and it will never give you the insight into life that will guide your desicions in the future. Knowledge and understanding IS power:)

Always knowing why you believe a thing, and always critically analyzing the belief when exposed to new information and willingly be able to change your opinion if the evidence tells you that you are incorrect, will give you the power not only to learn from your experiences, but to be able to better the world. Believing something because it feels good or because you want it to be true will only in the end make you weaker and less prepared for the future. Learn from history, because humanity has learned this throughout all of history, and we should learn from ourselves.

The scientific method is responsible for EVERYTHING in your life.

Your computer, your food, your medicine, your house, your car, your job, every little thing you own, everything you can do. Without this method of thought, we would still be living in caves. Michael Jackson would never have been The King Of Pop if he did not have the technology at his hands and by himself learn how to think like a scientist. Michael was a scientist when it comes to music.

The scientific method also took us from the dark ages to the age of enlightenment.

This is why I fight religion. Religion does not want you to learn or understand or question your belief. Religion fights science everyday. People of faith spread false information about science and scientific facts to people who are not educated. Religion is responsible for the Dark Ages and it is responsible for why we still have poverty, war and conflict in the world.

Some would now tell me "no no, people are responsible" Wrong. Without this ideology that advocates ignorance, all these bad things would not exist. People are selfish and faith fuels the self involved.

ALWAYS question your beliefs. ALWAYS question other people's beliefs. Don't worry, you are not taking away their right to believe because that right only means they can not be arrested or shot down for having it. But to allow belief without evidence to be a virtue, you allow for ignorance to be the influence of our future.

It is ok to have questions. It is even more Ok to say "I do not know" It is OK to have a belief, as long as you are honest and admit this is only a belief not fact.

But when you go from "I do not know" to "I believe what I believe because it feels right, and it is the truth for me" You automatically fool yourself. And if you pass that way of thinking onto your kids, you rob them of the opportunity to experience life as it is, and learn from it.

There are things I hate hearing from people, and there are things I wish people would never say even if they have the right. Because a lot of people abuse their right to free speech. I usually let such people ramble on as long as it doesn't affect me or anyone else in a negative way.

But when a person tells me they know because they believe, my brain explodes. Not because I can not stand the fact that they have the right to believe, but because their belief has a negative effect on the world and they are not honest enough to admit "I do not know why this is"

That is why I hate psychics. Psychics are full of it. I know because everytime someone critically analyze what they say, their explanations always end up in BS.

Not one single psychic has ever been able to prove they are a psychic. Same with healers.

The explanation is always the same. "A lot of people say they were healed"

A lot of people say they saw Elvis also.


Wow, that was an enjoyable read , thanxs! Your post has got me thinking alot now.
 
Atheist Thread (For non-believers only)

You can discuss evolution, science, biblical theories, the bible, the Koran etc. Profess reasons for your non belief in God. What you can not do in this thread is attack or ridicule the believer (many who are on this board) We do not allow attacks on the non-believer in the Christian thread so the same goes for this Atheist discussion. If you can not discuss your non - belief without doing that, please do not post in this thread.

Admin Team MJJC

Big up to all the Atheists on MJJC :D
 
Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.:p).

I used to be a Christian. Then I did what most Christians don't do. I read the old testament and discovered all the evil in it. And I understood that this belief was not a good one, and that there are to many religions out there and that claiming yours to be the right one is wrong.

Fact of the matter is that it is a belief without evidence, and that is not a wise thing to do.
 
Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.:p).

I used to be a Christian. Then I did what most Christians don't do. I read the old testament and discovered all the evil in it. And I understood that this belief was not a good one, and that there are to many religions out there and that claiming yours to be the right one is wrong.

Fact of the matter is that it is a belief without evidence, and that is not a wise thing to do.
I went to a religious school where mass was more important than maths and as a kid and during highschool I was pretty devout. However, the older I got, the more I analyzed the valdity of what I'd had drilled in me and the more ludicrous it became.

When I believed, I always had comfort... i.e when someone died i would think they were in heaven, when I died I believed I'd have the chance to see all my loved ones in paradise, when things were going wrong I could pray to God etc. Life is just so much easier when you have faith in something beyond it; so I went to read the bible. I had never really taken the time out to sit and read it properly so I thought, who am I to judge? Maybe there IS something in here that will turn a switch on for me... BIG MISTAKE.

Seriously... from the first page I was put off. First thought was, um, where are the dinosaurs in this creation of earth? Then when I got to the likes about how burning flesh is pleasing to the lord and how to properly sacrifice animals and which one he (because God inexplicably has a penis) liked better, oh and the story about the guy who collected foreskins as a dowry, (no offense to anyone but) I was reading more out of 'you've gotta be kidding-ness' than anything else.

A priest once said to me... don't take the bible as a textbook. I totally disagree with this. I don't think you can cherry pick parts of the bible to suit whatever generation it applies to better and discard the rest as outdated biblical crap. Either accept the entire thing or don't accept it period. That's my opinion anyway. Don't bother debating me about anything because we're not going to come to an agreement and I have no interest in being saved or whatever, as nice as your intention may be.

Picking up the bible has single handedly ruined any chance of me taking any kind of religion seriously ever again.
 
Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.:p).

I went to a religious school where mass was more important than maths and as a kid and during highschool I was pretty devout. However, the older I got, the more I analyzed the valdity of what I'd had drilled in me and the more ludicrous it became.

When I believed, I always had comfort... i.e when someone died i would think they were in heaven, when I died I believed I'd have the chance to see all my loved ones in paradise, when things were going wrong I could pray to God etc. Life is just so much easier when you have faith in something beyond it; so I went to read the bible. I had never really taken the time out to sit and read it properly so I thought, who am I to judge? Maybe there IS something in here that will turn a switch on for me... BIG MISTAKE.

Seriously... from the first page I was put off. First thought was, um, where are the dinosaurs in this creation of earth? Then when I got to the likes about how burning flesh is pleasing to the lord and how to properly sacrifice animals and which one he (because God inexplicably has a penis) liked better, oh and the story about the guy who collected foreskins as a dowry, (no offense to anyone but) I was reading more out of 'you've gotta be kidding-ness' than anything else.

A priest once said to me... don't take the bible as a textbook. I totally disagree with this. I don't think you can cherry pick parts of the bible to suit whatever generation it applies to better and discard the rest as outdated biblical crap. Either accept the entire thing or don't accept it period. That's my opinion anyway. Don't bother debating me about anything because we're not going to come to an agreement and I have no interest in being saved or whatever, as nice as your intention may be.

Picking up the bible has single handedly ruined any chance of me taking any kind of religion seriously ever again.

I like that priest!! At least he acknowledges that many things written in the bible were done so because there was no other explanation at the time. In that way it IS outdated.

Whether that makes one disregard it entirely or not is their perogative. :)
 
Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.:p).

^ lol why? I said people can take it or leave it... which is fair. :)
 
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Re: Athesit Thread version 2 (sorry K.O.S.:p).

If one want to see how believers cherry pick the Bible, go to the "Any believers in Jesus Christ" thread. Also, notice how I put up the verses from the old testament and how everybody just ignores it.

In the end a believer is in denial, not because they believe without any evidence, but because they believe out of fear. They think that god is going to punish them for not believing or even questioning their belief.

Fear is a very effective tool for indoctrinating kids.
 
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