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Thread: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and Other Theories

   
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    Default Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and Other Theories

    Quote Originally Posted by Anna View Post
    We are not undermining Gaz. Gaz doesn't want to censor this kind of discussion, but that also means not censoring the people who object to this kind of discussion. This thread is abhorrent to a lot of the members here, so if you choose to participate that is something you just have to accept.
    In that case why not delete that awful term, “Hoax Theory” from the title.

    Since we’re being sensitive to fans’ feelings I will add that Michael Jackson’s death is too serious to too many fans not to be able to discuss it in peace to whatever degree we need to.

    Especially since obviously “Hoax” is not an option. JMHO
    Last edited by SoS; 01-08-2020 at 08:59 AM.

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    Default Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and Other Theories

    Murray knew how to do CPR. He also knew it was a waste of time because Michael was already dead and had been for a while, before finally being discovered by Murray. The 911 call and the "pretending" to administer CPR, etc. was all smoke and mirrors for the benefit of others, because Murray did not want to pronounce MJ dead at the house. If he did, then the negligence was all on him and he wanted to avoid that, at all costs and try to save his own hide. That's why the entire facade of Michael being rushed to hospital and worked on by hospital staff happened......Murray told the paramedics when they arrived that he had found a weak pulse, but that is likely to have been a lie, like much of what came out of his mouth, that day and many other days afterwards. MJ was pronounced dead at 2:26 in the afternoon at Cedar Sinai, but Murray knew damn well that it happened MUCH earlier than that and the paramedics probably knew it, too....they just had to bow to the "superiority" of a doctor and act upon what he told them
    Firstly, thank you for adding a modicum of logic to this discussion. Since the beginning in 2009 every answer begs another question which is an oddity in itself.

    Re bolded:

    My only question for this answer is, if that’s the case (Murray was doing it only for “show”):

    Before Alverez arrived on the scene Murray had plenty of time to do the one thing anyone would do when putting on such a serious show (with his very life on the line and his only audience at the time being the body guard) and the habitual, instinctive thing any heart doctor “staging” CPR would do which is to put the patient on the floor - that is the main thing that would constitute a “staged” CPR just for “show”.

    Secondly, it would seem to me that Murrsy would have had every reason to suspect that a bodyguard (of all people to put on a life saving “show” for, especially with this patient being the body guard’s boss) , that Murray would have every reason to suspect that the body guard probably has had some CPR training himself - being that the body guard is afterall, in the life saving business. Not to mention many body guard types have been in some form of official training eg., law enforcement, military etc where CPR exposure is likely

    The body guard shouldn’t have had to have anyone to tell him to tell the doctor to put the patient on the floor.

    His first reaction when he saw this should have been the same as anyone’s especially with him watching first-hand Murray handling his boss that way.

    Here’s an analogy albeit loose but so I make my point clear-

    If a fireman is going to stage putting out a fire is he going to prepare ahead of time then “forget” to include the hose or the water with his very life on the line? I’m sure that people forget the darndest things when they panic. It’s just that some things are instinctual. Even if he knew Michael was dead, that still doesn’t make sense given his career instinct. It should have been quite automatic.

    Absurdity of the century: Heart doctor forgets to put heart -challenged patient on floor. Patient’s personal body guard doesn’t happen to notice. Farcical.

    It’s not like Murray didn’t call Alverez after he prepped the scene if he had been with his dead patient for that long before calling him in there...or before calling Amir or whomever he called to get Alverez there.

    Fits under the thread title - “errors”
    And if it wasn’t so tragic, at first blush it looks like a “comedy of errors”

    comedy of errors
    phrase of comedy
    a situation made amusing by bungling and incompetence.
    except this is the farthest thing from funny.

    Random Footnote:

    A good executive protection training school or company has the following curriculum outline as part of their training:
    Protective Advances – Protective Intelligence – Radio Communications – Motorcades and Routes – Firearms and Special Tactics – Public Affairs and Media Control – Emergency First Aid/CPR/AED
    https://www.worldprotectiongroup.com/analysis-the-bodyguard-vs-the-executive-protection-agent/
    Last edited by SoS; 01-08-2020 at 11:50 AM. Reason: Add

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    Default Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and Other Theories

    some say mj's soul was tired and damaged, and that the trial really ruined him. This is true, but for those who'd like to have faith that he could still be alive, here is a good question. Could mj doubles and impersonators, have helped to carry some of the load...?
    I wonder if you are joking. Or a new fan perhaps?

    OR...you just Wanna Be Starting Something? lol

    This question has been hashed over and over since 2009.

    We already know that through the decades he used doubles a lot so, obviously so... but sadly that is not an option although it gets a lot of speculation from fans who hope against hope.

    I’ve heard only the most absurdly ridiculous theories about it personally.

    If you’re heard anything that makes some kind of good sense please share. Every theory I have personally ever heard about “doubles” is utterly senseless ...so far.

    Meanwhile, he’s dead, let him go.
    Last edited by SoS; 01-08-2020 at 10:04 AM.

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    Default Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and Other Theories

    Quote Originally Posted by SoS View Post
    I think the biggest oddity to me is Murray stating on Dr Oz that when he came back in the room it wasn’t the same person laying there (that’s odd) the oddest thing of all being that Dr Oz didn’t ask him what the sam hill he meant by that.
    If you seek a serious discussion about the inconsistencies in MJ’s homicide case, I suggest to watch the actual trial videos instead of Dr Oz.
    Last edited by ScreenOrigami; 01-08-2020 at 06:08 PM.
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    Default Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and Other Theories

    Dr. Oz isn't a real doctor?



    a female with major depression,generalized anxiety,behavioral and emotional disorder,ocd mild retardation, and learning disability. i'm not contagious but my smile is.

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    Default Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and Other Theories

    .Thanks for these links are very helpful to this discuss.

    Obviously it doesn’t answer the simple question as to what Murray meant by what he said.

    The MAIN question was why did the talk show not address such a wildly bizarre statement...? Any thoughts/theories?
    Last edited by SoS; 01-08-2020 at 05:50 PM.

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    Default Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and Other Theories

    Quote Originally Posted by SoS View Post
    .Thanks for these links are very helpful to this discuss.

    Obviously it doesn’t answer the simple question as to what Murray meant by what he said.

    The MAIN question was why did the talk show not address such a wildly bizarre statement...? Any thoughts/theories?
    Because it’s trash TV. There’s nothing more to it. They invite people with ridiculous stories to sell their advertising slots. That’s the whole idea. They don’t care who claims what and why, as long as it makes them money.
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    Default Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and Other Theories

    Quote Originally Posted by SoS View Post
    The MAIN question was why did the talk show not address such a wildly bizarre statement...? Any thoughts/theories?
    I don't know. everyone has their own opinions. while i don't agree everything dr. oz says. i do agree with somethings he says not about this case though....



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    Default Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and Other Theories

    Quote Originally Posted by SoS View Post
    Absolutely. We didn’t name the thread, “Hoax Theories...” for goodness sake. Of course people are sensitive to that word, I know I am.. but it doesn’t stop me from being able to discuss everything else about this crazy mystery.

    They fix it where people can’t discuss any “inconsistencies” or anything without some knee-jerk responder to the word “hoax” icing up with some version of “he died” like everyone is here just for cramps and giggles.
    and treat us like it’s our fault that all the negativity is distracting.

    On another note , when is someone going to address my comment about the date is not “alleged” and that photo shopped picture on the covers of newspapers all around the world... the 911 operator acting like it makes sense for a non-breathing patient to be in the care of a “higher authority “ who isn’t properly performing CPR. “Call us back if you need anything else”. nobody has any theories I guess.

    I realize it’s a mystery to everyone really - it is quite an oddity.

    I think the biggest oddity to me is Murray stating on Dr Oz that when he came back in the room it wasn’t the same person laying there (that’s odd) the oddest thing of all being that Dr Oz didn’t ask him what the sam hill he meant by that.

    Any theories?

    I wonder what is each person’s biggest “oddity”?

    No doubt in my mind that every honest fan has at least one...even if they completely concluded that MJ unfortunately is completely 100% dead.
    What? Did he really say that??? And dr. Oz just let him say it, without asking what he meant?
    heal the world

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    Default Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and Other Theories

    Quote Originally Posted by mysterygirl7 View Post
    What? Did he really say that??? And dr. Oz just let him say it, without asking what he meant?
    Yes. Even on the trashiest of talk shows the most outrageous statements are the statements they address, for sensationalism purposes and ratings if nothing else.

    Does anyone know (heard) anything about the choice for the 80’s and early 90s motif of the memorial and funeral?

    Since then the family has released numerous wonderful (non-performance-related) pics of MJ taken of him in very recent times.

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    Default Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and Other Theories

    I may be a bit slow today, but can someone explain to me in a way that’s easy to understand for someone who has only been a fan for about a year now, what this discussion is all about? What are you guys trying to prove, if anything?
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    Default Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and Other Theories

    Quote Originally Posted by ScreenOrigami View Post
    I may be a bit slow today, but can someone explain to me in a way that’s easy to understand for someone who has only been a fan for about a year now, what this discussion is all about? What are you guys trying to prove, if anything?
    You’re not too slow. It’s not to prove anything except the most plausible possibilities of what is not explained through the facts as they have been presented.

    A lot of people are not as interested as others to discuss the odd circumstances surrounding the death of our fave, (a lot are understandably offended by the awful term “hoax” which in 2009 appeared to have been the situation in the eyes of a subset of fans when this thread was created) ) so this thread is here for those who ARE interested in:Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations

    SENSIBLY.

    I don’t come here normally because the discussion became stagnant likely because nobody appreciates the word, “hoax”.

    I’m guessing the thread will close at some point for that reason.

    sorry - can’t unbolt from copying part of the thread title


    Last edited by SoS; 01-08-2020 at 11:31 PM. Reason: add

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    Default Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and Other Theories

    I still don’t get it. Why do you want to discuss the circumstances of his death specifically in a thread about the death hoax? If you go back to page one, that’s what this thread is. Why not discuss in a different thread? I see people on Twitter talking about that wild hoax theory, and from what I gather it involves some fat guy in a burger restaurant pretending to be MJ in a fat suit or something. That’s ridiculous, and I don’t see how a serious discussion about the death circumstances is supposed to flourish in this environment.
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    Default Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and Other Theories

    I’d like to add – and excuse my making another post for this – that I’m actually quite interested in discussing the facts around the homicide. I’m slowly working my way through all those CM trial videos, and after that I’ll look into the AEG trial as well. So, if there are unanswered questions or inconsistencies, I’m absolutely open to talking about those. But certainly not in any way that involves any “hoax theory”.

    And I think that, when we keep telling people in regards to the CSA allegations to not believe the tabloids and look into the court transcripts and FBI files instead, we should do the same in this case. Meaning, analyze the facts as presented in the trial and other credible sources. Dr Oz is not a credible source for anything.
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    Default Re: The Hoax Theory - Discussing Errors, Inconsistencies, Observations and Other Theories

    Quote Originally Posted by ScreenOrigami View Post
    I still don’t get it. Why do you want to discuss the circumstances of his death specifically in a thread about the death hoax? If you go back to page one, that’s what this thread is. Why not discuss in a different thread? I see people on Twitter talking about that wild hoax theory, and from what I gather it involves some fat guy in a burger restaurant pretending to be MJ in a fat suit or something. That’s ridiculous, and I don’t see how a serious discussion about the death circumstances is supposed to flourish in this environment.
    . All of that fat guy talk etc is the whole reason such a serious discussion can’t flourish in this environment due to the word “hoax” which opens the way for every unimaginable ridiculousness being included with errors inconsistencies and observations where all the nuances can be discussed. I have not seen a thread that disses nuances except this one. If you know of another please post a link.

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