Quincy Jones isn't the only one who worked with then dissed MJ..

[144000]

If you read his book, he indeed does. :yes:

I stick by my previous post.

haha..sounds familiar. that's what the media loves to say, when backed into a corner...'stick by previous post, or article or whatever.' lol

cus u didn't address the part where i said 'if U were the subject.' or the part where i said 'jones brought up MJ's name specifically, instead of taking little girl's suggestion'. or the part where i said jones expressed about 'spiritual centeredness', instead of 'reclusiveness' which is a word that u and the one that agreed with u brought up.

and i suppose that if i read jones' book, i could draw whatever conclusion i wish, just as u did with the paragraphs in the thread. i could decide that jones doesn't address himself.

 

[Datsymay]

I would love to hear Jones tell the truth about Thriller. Jones wasn't expectikng much from thriller.He turned out mediocre production on it. It was aweful was his own words. What Jones failed to say was that MICHAEL JACKSON TURNED IT DOWN AND MADE HIM DO IT AGAIN. Other people around have said how unhappy MJ was with it, yet Jones tried to make people believe thast it was his wish to do it again. The fact is that MJ rejected it. MJ was right. Now Jones is trying to take the credit for it.

 

[144000]

I would love to hear Jones tell the truth about Thriller. Jones wasn't expectikng much from thriller.He turned out mediocre production on it. It was aweful was his own words. What Jones failed to say was that MICHAEL JACKSON TURNED IT DOWN AND MADE HIM DO IT AGAIN. Other people around have said how unhappy MJ was with it, yet Jones tried to make people believe thast it was his wish to do it again. The fact is that MJ rejected it. MJ was right. Now Jones is trying to take the credit for it.

at this point, i could believe that. fair weather is a terrible thing.

mannn..hasn't anybody listened to my samm brown thing yet? lol

 

[ennazus]

Maybe we should stop the negativity about Q.

The man definitely have his contribution to the music industry. I see no point arguing because obviously both sides read the particular quote really different.

The unfortunate thing about books is just that you can't really emotions of the author while writing the book. Maybe if he said that in video, we might be able to judge it better.

 

[144000]

Maybe we should stop the negativity about Q.

The man definitely have his contribution to the music industry. I see no point arguing because obviously both sides read the particular quote really different.

The unfortunate thing about books is just that you can't really emotions of the author while writing the book. Maybe if he said that in video, we might be able to judge it better.

that would be fine and dandy, but then we'd have to discount the ebony article with MJ quotes, and any other book ever written....and that includes the aphrodite jones book.

i was and still am a component of video though, like the oprah interview, but that's another subject. all we have now, is books.

and, in no way, am i discounting quincy jones' remarkable contribution to MJ's three albums.

 

[ennazus]

Sometimes, these people might not necessarily dissed MJ - maybe like a constructive criticism, misquoted, or we just read it wrongly.

Look at this way, maybe Q is just like most fathers, preaching their children what to do and stuffs.

 

[Marni]

haha..sounds familiar. that's what the media loves to say, when backed into a corner...'stick by previous post, or article or whatever.' lol

cus u didn't address the part where i said 'if U were the subject.' or the part where i said 'jones brought up MJ's name specifically, instead of taking little girl's suggestion'. or the part where i said jones expressed about 'spiritual centeredness', instead of 'reclusiveness' which is a word that u and the one that agreed with u brought up.

and i suppose that if i read jones' book, i could draw whatever conclusion i wish, just as u did with the paragraphs in the thread. i could decide that jones doesn't address himself.

Wow. I explained myself in my previous post enough as far as I am concerned and I did not want to comment because I do not want to argue about it, and you're insisting on arguing with what is a personal attack. I am not stupid and I will not be insulted and attacked. Thank you.

 

[144000]

Wow. I explained myself in my previous post enough as far as I am concerned and I did not want to comment because I do not want to argue about it, and you're insisting on arguing with what is a personal attack. I am not stupid and I will not be insulted and attacked. Thank you.

oh my god...i'm at a loss...what did i say about you personally?

i thought i was addressing your post....

well...i have learned....even if i don't think i'm aiming at you personally, i incline you to anger...

ok...well...i thought i was talking about quincy jones...and Michael Jackson...

and..ennazus...perhaps...perhaps that maybe the case...

but alas.....everybody goes thru trials...and Mj was clearly the subject of predators out to destroy him. i guess, i'm at a loss, where MJ is the one that needs to learn the lesson, when the perpetrators should be the ones who learn a lesson. MJ went thru something that was not of his own doing ...i guess i'm at a loss for how that should qualify that MJ should be given a lesson by a teacher. and...before anyone says that MJ isn't exempt from being taught lessons in life...i already know this... but there is a difference between the 'you got to stand in the corner' lesson, and the lesson that MJ learned through life itself. and that lesson is....you are a target if you are a massive success...and your situation was bigger and messier, because you are much bigger and more successful than most.

 

[Marni]

oh my god...i'm at a loss...what did i say about you personally?

i thought i was addressing your post....

well...i have learned....even if i don't think i'm aiming at you personally, i incline you to anger...

ok...well...i thought i was talking about quincy jones...and Michael Jackson...

I'm not inclined to anger in the slightest. I just won't argue.

 

[144000]

still waiting for someone to listen to the samm brown show. i guess the writer of a beautiful MJ song isn't so interesting, in this case..lol

 

[Remyisme]

In this quote Q doesn't diss MJ, but there was a story, like a year and a half or so ago, about, Q being somwhere talking, and later answering Qs form the audience, and I remember, a fan, from the forum, who asked him a Q, or may be it was another unknown person, basically Q said something like, that it really is very sad what MJ done to himself, meaning his appearence.

 

[DenisRS]

It looks like half of posters here did not actually read "Quincy Jones reflects on Thriller (Billboard Magazine) ALL THREADS MERGED)" thread:
http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44086

It includes complete link to Jones' quote on Michael's face with discussion. Please take time to read it from very beginning -- You will see in which aspects Quincy Jones was "dissing"/hypocritical on Jackson or not.


Some of Quincy Jones' comments on other artist:

Too late for Whitney

Zinhle Ntuli

World renowned music producer Quincy Jones last night cast doubt on prospects of rehabilitating waning superstar Whitney Houston, who is caught up in a drug addiction.

"It is too late to save Whitney now," Jones said in Johannesburg last night.

He was involved in attempts to rescue the once best selling Whitney from the grip of drug addiction early in her career.

The megastar has reportedly reached rock bottom and spends her days in crackhouses.

"It breaks my heart to see her like this, and it's not like she was in any trouble at all. It's sad that she's lost a lot," Jones said.

Jones said when he discovered Whitney's problem, he was due to produce her album. That did not happen.

"To help such a person one will have to take the time and find out what the problem is. You have to be from the 'academy of success' to understand why some of the people in the entertainment industry end up using drugs.

"You cannot feel what another person is going through unless you are in their shoes," he added.

Jones said the problem with most artists is that when they got into the industry they hired their families.

"They get their aunts, uncles, mothers, fathers and brothers - people who know nothing about the industry to be their managers.

"These are people whom they will take all over the world and make them feel like they can conquer everything. Sadly, that's not the case. In this industry you need people who can challenge you. A real friend will tell you when you are wrong," said Jones.

http://www.sundaytimes.co.za/zone/sundayt...1144221238.aspx

 

[DenisRS]

All right -- as many do not see it -- now, lets dissect what Quincy Jones was saying about Michael and how it was or was not "dissing":

God Will Walk Out of the Room

Caught a little of the Elvis movie on TV. The kid from Dublin playing him was good; had the moves down.

It got me to thinking about fame and massive success and about how some people can handle it -- and how for others it can be the most destructive thing in the world.

It got me to thinking about Michael -- and how difficult it is to watch what’s going on with him now.

Here Quincy:
1) associates Michael, as main subject and cause to write this article, as thinking of himself as "God" (this relates to Quincy's quote from China on Jackson's face);
2) compares him to Elvis, who has really had "distructive" destiny;
3) elaborates that Jackson, being in sin of God-wannabe pride, basically destroyed his life (though no concrete evidence was referred what exactly is Michael's guilt; maybe wish to help dying of cancer child was expression of that Jackson's sin that brought him to trial of 2005);

When we made “Thriller”, he was the most beautiful person in the world. Just a beautiful little brother. And you can’t help but wonder if things happened too fast, or does success of this magnitude become emotionally unmanageable?

When they made "Thriller", Michael already had plastic surgery, had children as his friends, chimps and boa in his bedroom overnight. So what exactly changed since then? No referrence on that is given. Quincy just:
4) takes as fact that Michael changed, with no specifying how, but to no better, because Jones further
5) tells that success made Jackson's mind off the wall;

All I know is that, on their own, human beings are not programmed to be able to handle that much fame, that much adulation, that much success. The only way to deal with something that overwhelming -- even overwhelming success -- is if you are spiritually centered.

If you believe that you deserve all that money and adulation, that’s a problem. If you believe you don’t deserve it, that’s also a problem. And if you don’t understand this, you’re in trouble.

I’ve been in the business 57 years and I’ve seen it over and over again. It’s all about trusting a higher power; believing in divinity. It’s about cause and manifestation. Cause being God’s job, manifestation clearly being our job. The moment success leads you to say, “I’ll take it from here, God,” God’s reply will be, “Be my guest.” And God will walk out of the room.

The only way to navigate that road is to have humility and grace.

Those are the two cardinal rules. You must approach creativity with humility and have grace when you’re blessed with success.

6) before that, above, Quincy said over and over how Michael did not survive mentally success, and now he with "big bang" offers opposite wisdom of bliss -- having humility, grace and being spirituality centered.


For those who oversaw it, again: Jackson does not have humility, grace, and he is not spiritually centered (at least any more). This is not "dissing" or what?

There is absolutely no way how what Jones said here can be interpreted otherwise. Because it is iron logic with reasoingings, premises, continuety, and consistenty.

However, **if** anyone will find other interpretation, then it would be great to have it. But with point on point argument (please see numbered items above) and with no common phrases like "Quincy cares of Michael", "Everyone is entitled to own opinion", "Lets agree to not agree", "I do not think Quincy dissed Michael" and so on.

Please concretely, arguments only, point by point. How can we ignore basic semantics of English language to avoid meaning of what Jones was saying and all of sudden conclude that Quincy did not "diss" Jackson. Unless one will redefine the word "diss" thus "dissing" would be something like Jones calling Michael "scumbag" or "****", which would be illegal dispute technique (forgery).

 

[Forever_Mike]

Samm Brown, the writer of MJ's 'One Day In Your Life' the song that made Samm Brown, has a program on in los angeles called 'for the record' in the episode for Sunday January 13, he spoke about in depth info about the goings on behind the scenes and in the limelight of the current music industry. saying that it is worth seven hundred billion dollars in the usa alone, and upwards.... he and his panel discussed the current state of the industry, and managed to mention every artist and his brother and sister, but distinctly left out MJ and the impact he has had on the industry. you can listen to the program in its entirety for the next ninety days... right here..

http://www.kpfk.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2101&Itemid=135

just look for the program called 'for the record' with Samm Brown, and the episode marked Jan. 13, 2008 and click on your choice of play or download.. i could be wrong, but i sincerely doubt it..i listened intently to the entire program. if i'm wrong about what was, and, more importantly, wasn't said....let me know....

it is the third program down from the top of the list. but it may travel further down the list with the passage of time, because the programs are listed in chronological order, from the date of this posting, forward.

I have listened to the Samm Brown show and to be honest I don't think he is dissing MJ at all. I mean in the begining they are talking about 'Idol' programmes and artists that came out of that, how the artists have done etc . So the names they are discussing are relevant to this. Later they talk about the need for artists to have a 'catalogue' of hit songs for atleast 10 years in order to keep working these days. Here they mention Madonna, Paul McCartney etc which I was glad that they didn't mention MJ. This is simply because they feel that these artists can pack concerts but the fans that turn up only do so to hear the 'old songs' and not the new stuff by these artists. In this sense by leaving MJ out it shows that they don't consider MJ such an artist. They don't think that peeps who will turn up to hear MJ will only want to hear his 'old songs'.

It is a longish show to listen (40minutes) but to be honest it is not in any sense a diss for MJ. I quite agree with some of their views. Thanx for the link!:yes:

 

[144000]

I have listened to the Samm Brown show and to be honest I don't think he is dissing MJ at all. I mean in the begining they are talking about 'Idol' programmes and artists that came out of that, how the artists have done etc . So the names they are discussing are relevant to this. Later they talk about the need for artists to have a 'catalogue' of hit songs for atleast 10 years in order to keep working these days. Here they mention Madonna, Paul McCartney etc which I was glad that they didn't mention MJ. This is simply because they feel that these artists can pack concerts but the fans that turn up only do so to hear the 'old songs' and not the new stuff by these artists. In this sense by leaving MJ out it shows that they don't consider MJ such an artist. They don't think that peeps who will turn up to hear MJ will only want to hear his 'old songs'.

It is a longish show to listen (40minutes) but to be honest it is not in any sense a diss for MJ. I quite agree with some of their views. Thanx for the link!:yes:

so you are saying that people go to MJ concerts to listen to both new and old songs, whereas with others they only wanna hear old songs?

if that is what u are saying...then....u r right...i stand corrected, in one sense. but in another...i just don't see how the industry can be mentioned without mentioning MJ's name...cus everybody else was mentioned. to me, it felt like a diss by omission, not a diss by commission.

i thought that they would have mentioned that MJ would be an exception, cus they do come to hear anything MJ puts out....but...having thought of what you have said...i guess, it's possible to turn it around that way, although i wouldn't credit the panel for intentionally doing it. lol...i admit..it sounds like u made lemonade out of lemons...rather successfully, i admit. thanks. i'm willing to admit if my mind is changed in any way...but, then again, i didn't, totally, cus i can't credit the panel for intentionally thinking of MJ the way you think of MJ, although i'd bet they'd go to see him for anything he puts out.

 

[Forever_Mike]

so you are saying that people go to MJ concerts to listen to both new and old songs, whereas with others they only wanna hear old songs?

if that is what u are saying...then....u r right...i stand corrected, in one sense. but in another...i just don't see how the industry can be mentioned without mentioning MJ's name...cus everybody else was mentioned. to me, it felt like a diss by omission, not a diss by commission.

i thought that they would have mentioned that MJ would be an exception, cus they do come to hear anything MJ puts out....but...having thought of what you have said...i guess, it's possible to turn it around that way, although i wouldn't credit the panel for intentionally doing it. lol...i admit..it sounds like u made lemonade out of lemons...rather successfully, i admit. thanks. i'm willing to admit if my mind is changed in any way...but, then again, i didn't, totally, cus i can't credit the panel for intentionally thinking of MJ the way you think of MJ, although i'd bet they'd go to see him for anything he puts out.

Basically my take of it is that they were largely concentrating on 2007 music/artist that made impact/or not and tried to reflect the reasons why this is so by looking at the state of the industry and its changes etc. So it is a very large topic to discuss in only 45 minutes thats one of the reasons why they didn't mention so many other artists (as one of the caller illustrated by been ticked off that her favourites weren't discussed). However I think they made some valid points and despite the limited time they had managed to actually discuss the current music 'issues' very well.

I am absolutely certain than if MJ had released something this year/ or toured etc he would have be mentioned and discussed. Their omission of MJ's name in the discussion I do not think was malicious in any sense. In some parts I think it was actually encouraging. They haven't/didn't assume either way regarding MJ career from now on. I think that most peeps want to hear MJ's new stuff and considering his peers (such as Macca etc) it is a great achievement for MJ. It is true that unfortunately once you have been in the industry for x years and have had some hits, when you tour you almost always have to keep playing your best hits to draw crowds rather than your new stuff. You get stuck in a time-zone. Most of them unfortunately are!:yes: Isn't it great tho' that we mourn because we want MJ's NEW stuff!!!!

I thought the discussion in general was really informative and well done. I also like the discussions regarding 'digital' releases like Prince had etc. When MJ releases new stuff this year, it will be interesting to hear the talk in 2009.

 

[Bee.]

:lol:

He makes me sooooo mad sometimes I could just scream!

When Michael is going through some drama, Quincy distances himself. When things are looking up, Quincy reels himself in. It's just so irritating.

And I'm sorry, Quincy, but this stuff you said below is like taking two steps forward, three steps back and then one step forward, Bru!



Where is the damn outlet?!

Oh, I know where it is. If you believe that YOU deserve all that money and adulation, then it's all good, huh? Yeahhhh, there's the outlet.

Exactly. Q was there when the good times were so good and HE couldn't handle it. Remember, itwas revealed that Q had to enter a mental hospital because of the popularity and fame of Thriller. Isn't it funny that in a video clip, Q said that basically the plastic surgery that MJ had was a sign of a psychological problem, but MJ did not enter a psych ward!

Q is a lot of things. Also, his comment about having a lot of money - if you earn it, have it. That is what it is all about ANYWAY. It is all about getting that paper and Mike got that paper. It is not like it is a bad thing to make money, esp. if you worked your rear to get money. Q is a producer that is still on the fame of Thriller and people say that MJ is a hasbeen. Q has been a hasbeen since 1987. That is the truth. We justkeep seeing him because he wants to be seen.

 

[Rasta Pasta]

if Michael is truly working with Quincy.. as Santana mentioned.. who's to say.. that Q didn't call Michael.. talk to him man to man.. and apologized..

and maybe this is why they now have a renewed working relationship..

thing is Michael is no fool... from what I get from him.. he always look at the bigger picture..and him and Q have history together... like a father and son...

if Michael was to ostersize every friend or associate who've ever said any thing negative or remotely non-supportive.. he would truly be the 'recluse' the media has labeled has...

its good to remember past things.. but situations and people can change..I respect Michael's decisions when it comes to his music.. so no worries about him working with Q...

a continuation of his legacy is about to be written........don't miss it

 

[144000]

if Michael is truly working with Quincy.. as Santana mentioned.. who's to say.. that Q didn't call Michael.. talk to him man to man.. and apologized..

and maybe this is why they now have a renewed working relationship..

thing is Michael is no fool... from what I get from him.. he always look at the bigger picture..and him and Q have history together... like a father and son...

if Michael was to ostersize everyone friend or associate who've ever said any thing negative or remotely non-supportive.. he would truly be the 'recluse' the media has labeled has...

its good to remember past things.. but situations and people can change..I respect Michael's decisions when it comes to his music.. so no worries about him working with Q...

a continuation of his legacy is about to be written........don't miss it

ur right about mj's ability to see the bigger pic....other than that, i'll save all my quincy jones quotes for the quincy jones thread. i'm glad that some peeps discussed samm brown. thanks