MJ's Team Shutting out & Blockin the Family?

I have seen no concrete proof of that.



I never said we found "concrete" proof of anything, only that certain info had been pointed out in several threads on this forum. Through our discussions, speculating, and pieces together reports and other sources.

"Concrete" proof should be left up with the Law offiicials, that's their job to gather but we can definatley point out, make timelines, share info, speculate and more.
 
^Thanks. What I mean is I feel like when people say that Michael needed help they're omitting the fact that Michael has needed help for YEARS. Not just in the past year or whenever he started to get skinny. Not after he started abusing Diprivan and Demerol. He needed help when he was young and he never got it. None of them told him to stop hanging around children so much or to stop ruining his face. I bet he wouldn't have been such an easy target for the vultures if he was mentally sound. I get an overall sense that many feel that his family would have been his savior but they didn't try to save him when he needed it most. A LONG TIME AGO. Some of them stepped up when it was too late imo. Everyone is guilty in this situation even his family. His life just kept getting worse and worse and no one could help him. It was like a lost cause.


Bill O'Rielly?

First i would not blame mj and label him as a crazy person because he tried to help other kids as a result of the bad childhood he had because of his OWN FAMILY , THEY WERE THE PROBLEM NOT THE SOLUTION , I would not blame mj for Evan using his own son to pay debts ,get more money and refuse to persue a criminal trial when he had every opportunity in the world to do so not once but twice , in 1993 and again in 2005.

I would not blame MJ for Janet arvizo's dreams of becoming famous and having alot of money by using her son who only showed emotions on the stand when he described to the jurors how much he was devastated by mj abandoning him .when he went to neverland , how much it hurts to be told he was not there , you walk and see him setting in the library reading and his personal car is there . I thought a perv stay with the kids not hide from them .

His plastic surgeries were caused by personal insecurities again CASUED BY NO ONE BUT MEMEBERS OF HIS OWN FAMILY .

as for the drug abuse , in 1993 he had went under surgery and according to an expert the pain must have been more severe than the pain caused by the burns themselves , he was being given demerol to ease the pain , when he got hooked on them he went to rehab and cleaned himself .

when he collapsed in late 1995 , the doctor who treated him gave an interview after his death , and after all the media reports of him abusing drugs and said he was very shocked when blood tests came back and he discovered mj was not taking anything .

yeah between 2000 and 2003 there was an obvious problem but we don't really know what were his medical condition, or the illnesses he was suffering from .

from the nurse Lee who treated him for three months starting jan till 19th of April she said she conducted several drug tests on him and he was always clean , while other so called friends had no evidence to back up their claims of meds abuse , Lee provided medical tests to the LAPD which support her story .

Propofol is not an addictive drug , the way he used it he would not have felt high , it was very dangerous and it did cost him alot financially . obviously there were no advantages an addcit would have got from using it again the way mj used it . He wanted to sleep , he was told it was safe , Murray's attroney himself said he did not give him anything that should have caused his death , so they are admitting the doc did not feel it was not safe .

stop blaming mj for everything and the family certainly were not the people who could have helped him stay away from liers and opportunities .

there are many evidence to suggest most of them were only calling when they want to ask for something , again they were not part of the solution , they were infact the biggest problem .
 
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I'm sorry but failing to see that he had a mental illness and needed help is part of the reason why he kept getting more and more out of control. Okay so the Chandlers were dishonest. But after that he should have wised up so that never happens to him again. Now I don't think he could do that because he needed psychiatric help but in that case it was the responsibility of those around him to give him a reality check on how the real world works. If you tell people that you sleep in the bed with children they are going to think that you are a child molester. Point blank.

Leeches & Vultures prey on the weak. If he had gotten help and maybe some medicine for whatever illnesses he had besides Body Dysmorphic Disorder (which I really think he had) he would have known better. I could tell within 1 minute that people like Klein and Lester were shady.

I didn't say that his plastic surgeries were caused by his family. But let's admit it. He should have stopped during Thriller. & during the early 2000s he barely looked human. It should have never gotten to that point. His family and friends should have said hey Michael this is not a good look! You need to stop! Maybe I'm being too blunt but people should have been more blunt with him.

I listened to those phone tapes. He was telling this girl that he's anorexic and she doesn't even really react to what he's saying. She should have said Michael you need help.

& it doesn't matter if Propofol is addicting or not. Most sane people would know better than to use anesthesia to go to sleep. The problem with Michael is that he wasn't. When he was walking around with an anesthesiologist during History tour did anyone say hey Michael what are you doing with this guy? & the song Morphine which was an obvious cry for help. Was anyone around him listening?

I'm not blaming Michael. I said that Michael was mentally ill. I just don't understand how we can just blame this on the people who were in his life the last few years when he's been going downhill since the late 1980s! It's like what that publicist or whoever it was said to Larry King "We all knew this wasn't going to end well."
 
You all are getting wayyyyyyyy off Topic here.

This thread wasn't created to blame Michael or accuse him of having a Mental Illness.

As a reminder, this thread is about famiy or others being Shut out and getting Blocked.

You may want to start your own thread with your claims of our Michael's mental state, that is even if it will be allowed on here. Many will find that line of conversation grossly insensitive and offensive.

Also, there is that little matter of not being Michael's person therapist that may play a role in why we shouldnt be having such a conversation.
 
Okay. Well I maintain my thought that they could have done more. & I don't think it was always those people blocking them. I watched an interview where a bodyguard said that he didn't want to see his brothers because they kept asking him to go on tour. IMO it goes both ways.
 
I don't think anyone blocked mj from seeing his family , according to Taj they saw him three weeks before his death he looked fine , and talked about doing a movie ...etc .

I'll take Taj's word over Latoya's word . He has never betrayed his uncle, he loved him on the other hand Latoya was and is suspicious as hell.

as for joe , he should continue promoting his record company and leave MJ alone .
 
there were paparazzi pictures of Michael with his family and his kids a few weeks before he died...how exactly was he blocking them?
also Latoya said herself that she last saw him in may at a family reunion
 
ok it was an anniversary dinner. but who's to say that if they wanted to go and see mike at his HOUSE that they could get in. they accidentally locked katherine out. but i've seen joe and randy locked out of other houses, multiple times.

so it could either be he wanted to contact his family and was rebuffed by his people or they tried to change the subject OR he said he didn't want to see certain people and they made a blanket assumption that he meant the whole family
 
soso , after what we heard about the family reunion concert and joe's role in it , would not it be very reasnable to think that indeed mj did not want anything to do with them ?

we know now for sure that the rumours about mj not being able to perfom were coming from his own family and from their advisors like Rowe . can you imagine the pressure such claims put on mj during that difficult time ?

we as fans might have said and we actually did say that allgood were liers and the family was not planing a concert ....ect but MJ may have very well knew that his family was behind the deal and wanted him to do the concert

please no one come and say they denied it and their signatures were not there . joe was involved , jermaine would not hesitate for a moment , Rowe is close to Randy and Katie as we discovered from the last court session , so yeah mj knew his family and their friends were the one behind the rumours and that was not helping him at all .
 
I never said we found "concrete" proof of anything, only that certain info had been pointed out in several threads on this forum. Through our discussions, speculating, and pieces together reports and other sources.

"Concrete" proof should be left up with the Law offiicials, that's their job to gather but we can definatley point out, make timelines, share info, speculate and more.

From the tone of some posts here it seems like people are saying they have proof and I am just pointing out that, at this time, we don't know what we don't know.
 
Bill O'Rielly?

First i would not blame mj and label him as a crazy person because he tried to help other kids as a result of the bad childhood he had because of his OWN FAMILY , THEY WERE THE PROBLEM NOT THE SOLUTION , I would not blame mj for Evan using his own son to pay debts ,get more money and refuse to persue a criminal trial when he had every opportunity in the world to do so not once but twice , in 1993 and again in 2005.

I would not blame MJ for Janet arvizo's dreams of becoming famous and having alot of money by using her son who only showed emotions on the stand when he described to the jurors how much he was devastated by mj abandoning him .when he went to neverland , how much it hurts to be told he was not there , you walk and see him setting in the library reading and his personal car is there . I thought a perv stay with the kids not hide from them .

His plastic surgeries were caused by personal insecurities again CASUED BY NO ONE BUT MEMEBERS OF HIS OWN FAMILY .

as for the drug abuse , in 1993 he had went under surgery and according to an expert the pain must have been more severe than the pain caused by the burns themselves , he was being given demerol to ease the pain , when he got hooked on them he went to rehab and cleaned himself .

when he collapsed in late 1995 , the doctor who treated him gave an interview after his death , and after all the media reports of him abusing drugs and said he was very shocked when blood tests came back and he discovered mj was not taking anything .

yeah between 2000 and 2003 there was an obvious problem but we don't really know what were his medical condition, or the illnesses he was suffering from .

from the nurse Lee who treated him for three months starting jan till 19th of April she said she conducted several drug tests on him and he was always clean , while other so called friends had no evidence to back up their claims of meds abuse , Lee provided medical tests to the LAPD which support her story .

Propofol is not an addictive drug , the way he used it he would not have felt high , it was very dangerous and it did cost him alot financially . obviously there were no advantages an addcit would have got from using it again the way mj used it . He wanted to sleep , he was told it was safe , Murray's attroney himself said he did not give him anything that should have caused his death , so they are admitting the doc did not feel it was not safe .

stop blaming mj for everything and the family certainly were not the people who could have helped him stay away from liers and opportunities .

there are many evidence to suggest most of them were only calling when they want to ask for something , again they were not part of the solution , they were infact the biggest problem .
Nevermind.
 
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the oe thing I have to say : is there any LEGAL ways to make an addict having a rehab/detox? if anyone frm the famylie knew there was something wrong, couldn't he/she make him to do it? I don't know the US law but there must be some court/law ways to do it!!!! so why anyone haven't thought about that???????
 
I don't know. But I think if you're famous, they would have someone by law get permitted to look after your finances while that famous family member go to rehab. That's what Natalie Cole's family did in the early '80s.
 
I think Michael himself didn't want his family around...

So he deliberately blocked out the ppl who cared about him the most...
 
hmmm...I get that he wanted his family out of his buissnes things...but outcasting your family members from your personal life doesn't sound common...oh gosh, really don't know what to think about that anymore:(
 
I don't know. But I think if you're famous, they would have someone by law get permitted to look after your finances while that famous family member go to rehab. That's what Natalie Cole's family did in the early '80s.
First, a person has to want to be rehabilitated. A family can stage an intervention, but it's not without risk. In Natalie's case, she willfully committed to 6 mos at Hazelden and she willfully allowed her mother to act as guardian of her estate.

They tried this shyt with Whitney Houston and she was like -- HELL NAW. I will take my daughter and roll up out of this country never to be seen again...
 
Meena has a point. There are 2 voices being heard. One saying Michael was a drug addled helpess man, the other saying he was fit, well and raring to go.

i think the first voice is most likely to be the one speaking the truth

oh did she write that on her facebook, too?

and ur husband or a job? hmmmmmmmm family or money? hmmmmmmmm

she full of it. sh ehad plenty of opportunities to work w/mj. right after she got hitched shouldn't hav ebeen one of them...she was chasing the wrong jock

begging for a psychologist? honestly. so if she gets in a car accident, is she gonnna call the police or is she gonna go to starbucks for a frappaccino.....riiiiiiiiight. a shrink is gonna help mj when he needs a massive, according to her, intervention.

i wish i had friends like that

you are a modeator and people will interpret what you are writing as saying that Karen is lying about the events in June. No matter what your personal thoughts are about Karen.. i think (and correct me if i'm wrong) that you believe what she is saying. i think fans that dont get chance to read the boards that much tho.. will just read posts from a moderator and then assume Karen must be talking bull.. when i think its important us fans know the truth

I forgot to mention this early on in the thread. Can't believe I forgot this small tidbit.

But, did any of you realize the "off again on again blocking" of The Jackson family was so incredible that a few of the family members became very friendly with The fans standing outside of MJ's Gate, to the point of giving these fans their personal cell numbers to call them in case they saw anything suspicious? And from what I am told, these fans stayed on top of it too!!!!!!!!!!!!

I briefly just posted this in another thread but, I was told on the morning of June 25th it was those TRUSTED fans who saw the ambulance and called family members to tell them, I think they trailed the ambulance as the conversations with the family continued on the phone.

What does this tell anybody about the last few weeks and months of Michael Jackson's life?

very interesting

I don't think he had that security team blocking them since the 1980s. That's when he first started to act crazy. He needed help then. Many of the stuff that tainted his legacy could very well have been avoided. He most likely died of Propofol. He's been using this as early as History tour maybe even earlier. Only a crazy person would do that.

fair point

I'm sorry but failing to see that he had a mental illness and needed help is part of the reason why he kept getting more and more out of control. Okay so the Chandlers were dishonest. But after that he should have wised up so that never happens to him again. Now I don't think he could do that because he needed psychiatric help but in that case it was the responsibility of those around him to give him a reality check on how the real world works. If you tell people that you sleep in the bed with children they are going to think that you are a child molester. Point blank.

Leeches & Vultures prey on the weak. If he had gotten help and maybe some medicine for whatever illnesses he had besides Body Dysmorphic Disorder (which I really think he had) he would have known better. I could tell within 1 minute that people like Klein and Lester were shady.

I didn't say that his plastic surgeries were caused by his family. But let's admit it. He should have stopped during Thriller. & during the early 2000s he barely looked human. It should have never gotten to that point. His family and friends should have said hey Michael this is not a good look! You need to stop! Maybe I'm being too blunt but people should have been more blunt with him.

I listened to those phone tapes. He was telling this girl that he's anorexic and she doesn't even really react to what he's saying. She should have said Michael you need help.

& it doesn't matter if Propofol is addicting or not. Most sane people would know better than to use anesthesia to go to sleep. The problem with Michael is that he wasn't. When he was walking around with an anesthesiologist during History tour did anyone say hey Michael what are you doing with this guy? & the song Morphine which was an obvious cry for help. Was anyone around him listening?

I'm not blaming Michael. I said that Michael was mentally ill. I just don't understand how we can just blame this on the people who were in his life the last few years when he's been going downhill since the late 1980s! It's like what that publicist or whoever it was said to Larry King "We all knew this wasn't going to end well."

i think youve said this in quite an offensive way .. but i do think you have some very valid points
 
I think Michael himself didn't want his family around...

So he deliberately blocked out the ppl who cared about him the most...



You are probably right about this. As we have already discussed in this thread, its believed Michael may have blocked certain family himself in the PAST, but recently there is Evidence showing, he was reaching out and making family more a part of he and his kids lives until his Team began to Block and shut them out.

Those pics and reports of either or both Katherine and Joe with MJ and kids shows, HE wasn't blocking them out and obviously wanted them around months before his untimely death.
 
i think the first voice is most likely to be the one speaking the truth



you are a modeator and people will interpret what you are writing as saying that Karen is lying about the events in June. No matter what your personal thoughts are about Karen.. i think (and correct me if i'm wrong) that you believe what she is saying. i think fans that dont get chance to read the boards that much tho.. will just read posts from a moderator and then assume Karen must be talking bull.. when i think its important us fans know the truth
while i may be a 'moderator' i have opinoins.

if someone has lied to me, then i don't belive them the next time. sorry, it could be true, could have a ring of truth, but ur still a liar.

karen is a fake hero. she was around when things were happening and did nothing. she's saying things on her page adn that's it. how is that helping anyone? and say i don't have a facebook? how will i know what she's saying? u can't post it anywhere.

so not only isshse saying this privately, she doesn't want it to get out. y? the truth shouldnever be silenced.

karen has said a lot of bs. she wasn't kept away from mj. while raymone and grace may not be the best of people, they didn'tkeep her away from mike. she's lying.

and she's loving all the ass kissing and fans complimenting her and all the attention.

u see tucker talking? culkin? robson? barnes? taylor? bush?

her motives? i suspect....same as ortega and dileo. shall we believe that mike was 160like frank said? after all, he was mj's 'friend':doh:
 
the oe thing I have to say : is there any LEGAL ways to make an addict having a rehab/detox? if anyone frm the famylie knew there was something wrong, couldn't he/she make him to do it? I don't know the US law but there must be some court/law ways to do it!!!! so why anyone haven't thought about that???????

This is what I was saying. Britney's family got a conservatorship for her. Her dad got control and got rid of leeches around her so she could get back on track. He's still in control I believe because she's still not 100%. Now I don't know if they could do that in relation to drugs but they could have gotten him arrested. Tough but sometimes that is what turns people's lives around. Sometimes they have to hit rock bottom before they start to recover.
 
This is what I was saying. Britney's family got a conservatorship for her. Her dad got control and got rid of leeches around her so she could get back on track. He's still in control I believe because she's still not 100%. Now I don't know if they could do that in relation to drugs but they could have gotten him arrested. Tough but sometimes that is what turns people's lives around. Sometimes they have to hit rock bottom before they start to recover.
there's a difference. she's bi-polar. theyhad a legal reason to come in. she was put on a 5150 hold TWICE and was a danger to her children.

apples and oranges. it wasn't mj that was nuts, it was the people around him
 
Well Michael did dangle Blanket over a balcony which is similar to Britney driving a car with one of her sons sitting in her lap. But we'll have to agree to disagree on that front. Around the Bashir interview there should have been a big intervention imo. Something wasn't right with him and he was acting very manic. I said I don't know if they could but I think they should have tried to do what Britney's family did. Because of what they did she is still alive today.
 
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I think Michael himself didn't want his family around...

So he deliberately blocked out the ppl who cared about him the most...

I think it depends on what the family wanted to see him for. If Joe came around, do you think it was just to say "Hi son" or would he have asked Michael for money or to do something for him.

If the case was the latter, you can see why Michael might have said no to seeing his Dad and that could go for any other family member.
 
Well Michael did dangle Blanket over a balcony which is similar to Britney driving a car with one of her sons sitting in her lap. But we'll have to agree to disagree on that front. Around the Bashir interview there should have been a big intervention imo. Something wasn't right with him and he was acting very manic. I said I don't know if they could but I think they should have tried to do what Britney's family did. Because of what they did she is still alive today.
the difference there is she claims to have been afraid of the papps near her car so she just took off w/ her bodyguards in the back seat.

mj wasn't in danger from the papps. it's called a lack of judgement. the situation and enviornment caused u to make a decision that uwouldn't ordinarily do
 
I think it depends on what the family wanted to see him for. If Joe came around, do you think it was just to say "Hi son" or would he have asked Michael for money or to do something for him.

If the case was the latter, you can see why Michael might have said no to seeing his Dad and that could go for any other family member.

Believe it or not, Joe cared about his well being.

Joe himself said he tried several times to get to him but he would lock them out.

Tito talked about having to literally bust into Neverland to get to him.

Randy found him strung out at Neverland on Morphine

Janet tried to help in 2007.

Michael BLOCKED his family....they wouldn't be yes-men.

I don't think he was in his right mind alot of times....his addiction got the better of him. IMHO:(
 
Well Michael did dangle Blanket over a balcony which is similar to Britney driving a car with one of her sons sitting in her lap. But we'll have to agree to disagree on that front. Around the Bashir interview there should have been a big intervention imo. Something wasn't right with him and he was acting very manic. I said I don't know if they could but I think they should have tried to do what Britney's family did. Because of what they did she is still alive today.

the balcony was a double balcony, the baby was within the first part of the balcony - like most things a camera often does not give the full picture - and my goodness if Michaels impressive hands couldnt hold onto a baby then I dont know what could....lol
 
Believe it or not, Joe cared about his well being.

Joe himself said he tried several times to get to him but he would lock them out.

Tito talked about having to literally bust into Neverland to get to him.

Randy found him strung out at Neverland on Morphine

Janet tried to help in 2007.

Michael BLOCKED his family....they wouldn't be yes-men.

I don't think he was in his right mind alot of times....his addiction got the better of him. IMHO:(


And I think as described recently by Latoya and Leonard Rowe, The People around Michael were blocking others and Giving him drugs making sure he WOULDN'T BE IN HIS RIGHT MIND.

In doing that, they were able to Take over his Estate and Finances.
 
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