Was Michael Jackson really murdered? Who did it? Let's talk about it

[ElleBella]

The life support thing sounds like BS, for 2 reasons, tge paramedics said he was dead when they got there but Murray was still the one in charge since he's a doctor. And two, Michaels next of kin would have been his mother, I'm pretty sure, that Jehova Witnesses do not believe in life support, some believe it's messing with Jehovas plan. That's just some JW though.

The story from Frank is that he was being kept alive on life support but was brain dead. This means his heart was beating because you don't just medically throw someone on life support like that. Its complicated to explain but what Frank said also made no sense to me.

If someone comes into the ER totally dead on arrival; thats what they call. If there was no hope thats what they would have called it. I don't think he was dead for 'hours' if they worked on him.

Who said the doctor didn't know how to do CPR? Who saw him doing it? Just because he wasn't on the floor? Did you know that every hospital Code Blue is performed on a bed with a backboard? We put no patient on the floor. When did it become a fact he didn't know what he was doing? Who said that?

Murray gave a small amount of Propofol in reality. It was not a large dose. He gave more the night before and Michael lived. Think about that.

 

[kasume]

I think he was murdered. When he first died a report came out saying an employee heard him telling someone on the phone that he didn't want to do the concerts because things just were not ready. Then he called Joe. The story just disappeared and was not mentioned again but this would be a great motive. Millions would be lost if he didn't do the concerts and we know MJ was a perfectionist and he wouldn't do the shows if things were not ready. A cardiologist would not make the mistakes this guy made. He gave MJ a lethal amount of propofol. That is enough to kill someone. More than the 25ml he claimed to have given. A lethal amount was in his system hours later, that's no accident.

But I thought Michael couldn't wait to go to London, according to Kenny. Michael even had all his stuff already packed up and ready to board that plane.

 

[kasume]

The story from Frank is that he was being kept alive on life support but was brain dead. This means his heart was beating because you don't just medically throw someone on life support like that. Its complicated to explain but what Frank said also made no sense to me.

If someone comes into the ER totally dead on arrival; thats what they call. If there was no hope thats what they would have called it. I don't think he was dead for 'hours' if they worked on him.

Who said the doctor didn't know how to do CPR? Who saw him doing it? Just because he wasn't on the floor? Did you know that every hospital Code Blue is performed on a bed with a backboard? We put no patient on the floor. When did it become a fact he didn't know what he was doing? Who said that?

Murray gave a small amount of Propofol in reality. It was not a large dose. He gave more the night before and Michael lived. Think about that.

How do you know that? We don't even know if Michael even asked for the propofol. All these people are saying, "michael said, he said, michael wanted, michael begged"

But Michael is not here to say that the words they are putting in his mouth are true. In the past years, he could defend himself against all those crazy lies. But now, people can say whatever they hell they want about him, because he will NOT be here to say anything otherwise.

Did you know that every hospital Code Blue is performed on a bed with a backboard?

That is in a hospital, which is WAY different than a bedroom, with more than one doctor around and with proper equipment all around. It's different from a man in his bedroom. And I also remember someone saying, "any idiot would know not to give CPR on a bed". And the guy who recieved the call even told Murray to bring the guy onto the floor. Surely, if the bed worked or if it was more helpful in saving Michael, the guy wouldn't have said, "let's bring him down to the floor."

Anways, does anyone find it strange that Michael wouldn't keep himself healthy if he was scheduled for another physical in just a few days??? Because Randy Phillips said Michael was scheduled for another one right before he was going to leave for London. It doesn't make sense that Michael wouldn't keep himself in top shape for that.....because he really wanted to leave for London.

 

[sweetbabyxsj]

i really don't wanna believe it's murder. however too many coincidences.

 

[kissybissy]

While most fans target Murray as the only one responsible for the Michael's death because he was who pulled the trigger, so to say, injecting Michael with Propofol, the drug that killed him, we have to see the big picture and realize that there are more ppl responsible that directly or indirectly caused his death. Not only Murray killed Michael, but also those that provided him with the meds, the minders that granted him every wish. Murray is more directly involved, cause as his doctor he shouldn't have given Michael so many drugs, but certainly there are many more responsible.

 

[amyzabeth]

The story from Frank is that he was being kept alive on life support but was brain dead. This means his heart was beating because you don't just medically throw someone on life support like that. Its complicated to explain but what Frank said also made no sense to me.

If someone comes into the ER totally dead on arrival; thats what they call. If there was no hope thats what they would have called it. I don't think he was dead for 'hours' if they worked on him.

Who said the doctor didn't know how to do CPR? Who saw him doing it? Just because he wasn't on the floor? Did you know that every hospital Code Blue is performed on a bed with a backboard? We put no patient on the floor. When did it become a fact he didn't know what he was doing? Who said that?

Murray gave a small amount of Propofol in reality. It was not a large dose. He gave more the night before and Michael lived. Think about that.

Obviously you have some of your facts wrong. Like I said before. Murray did CPR on the bed yes, but he put his hand behind Mike's back and did CPR with one hand? pfft gimme a break. He CLEARLY had no idea what he was doing. ok.. and that fact is coming from Murray's lawyer. He said the bed was "firm" so Murray put his hand behind Mike's back and did CPR with the other. yea... he really knows what he is doing. *sarcasm* :smilerolleyes:

The fact is, CPR is supposed to be done on a hard surface it doesn't HAVE to be done on the floor, just a hard surface. But yet again, Murray didn't do that did he? Or does he consider one hand to be a good example of a hard surface? pff plz In your reality he gave Michael a small amount of Propofol. But in actual reality he gave Michael an acute amount of Propofol which in medical terms means a large amount. mk? This fact came from the autopsy report.

How about you think about this, Murray gave Mike propofol for weeks before that but all of a sudden he makes a "mistake?" mhmmm >.> I believe Murray was the fall guy in all this, I think more people are involved. How is Murray paying for those body guards again? Since he is sooooo broke. Murray said he was trying to take Mike off of Propofol yet gives Michael more that night? yeaaa that makes a lot of sence. :doh: And also, I don't know where you got the life support story, but I'm just gonna leave that one alone.

Also, yes Mike was napped for hours before he was taken to the hospital. If you didn't know Mike's fireplace was on in his room, on a summer day in California. So that was used to keep his body warm so they, meaning paramedics would think Mike was still alive or his heart had stopped beating not too long ago. Another thing, Murray was the one who forced the paramedics to take Mike to the hospital, they wanted to declare him napping at the house, but oh wait then it would become a crime scene and Murray wouldn't have time to hide the evidence. So of course since Murray has a higher authority over the paramedics, since he is a doctor and all, they took Mike to the hospital, and you know the rest.

 

[Maria MJ]

I'm thinking, could this last bottle of Propofol been tampered with? I mean contained something lethal and was waiting to be used?

 

[Autumn II]

I'm thinking, could this last bottle of Propofol been tampered with? I mean contained something lethal and was waiting to be used?

Whoa! This seems possible. Not so much that some toxin (some other toxin?) was put in, because that would be detectable in an autopsy, but the level. . the AMOUNT of propofol is crucial because it's not given full-strength. If more were added, then it would be an "acute" dose.

 

[kasume]

Obviously you have some of your facts wrong. Like I said before. Murray did CPR on the bed yes, but he put his hand behind Mike's back and did CPR with one hand? pfft gimme a break. He CLEARLY had no idea what he was doing. ok.. and that fact is coming from Murray's lawyer. He said the bed was "firm" so Murray put his hand behind Mike's back and did CPR with the other. yea... he really knows what he is doing. *sarcasm* :smilerolleyes:

The fact is, CPR is supposed to be done on a hard surface it doesn't HAVE to be done on the floor, just a hard surface. But yet again, Murray didn't do that did he? Or does he consider one hand to be a good example of a hard surface? pff plz In your reality he gave Michael a small amount of Propofol. But in actual reality he gave Michael an acute amount of Propofol which in medical terms means a large amount. mk? This fact came from the autopsy report.

How about you think about this, Murray gave Mike propofol for weeks before that but all of a sudden he makes a "mistake?" mhmmm >.> I believe Murray was the fall guy in all this, I think more people are involved. How is Murray paying for those body guards again? Since he is sooooo broke. Murray said he was trying to take Mike off of Propofol yet gives Michael more that night? yeaaa that makes a lot of sence. :doh: And also, I don't know where you got the life support story, but I'm just gonna leave that one alone.

Also, yes Mike was napped for hours before he was taken to the hospital. If you didn't know Mike's fireplace was on in his room, on a summer day in California. So that was used to keep his body warm so they, meaning paramedics would think Mike was still alive or his heart had stopped beating not too long ago. Another thing, Murray was the one who forced the paramedics to take Mike to the hospital, they wanted to declare him napping at the house, but oh wait then it would become a crime scene and Murray wouldn't have time to hide the evidence. So of course since Murray has a higher authority over the paramedics, since he is a doctor and all, they took Mike to the hospital, and you know the rest.

And that mistake was made just a few days before Michael was to leave for London.....Sometimes I wonder if Michael wasn't going to take Murray along with him in London.....

Also, I can't see Michael asking that doc for the drug after the doctor tries to take him off it. Michael said with his own tongue when he was alive that he didn't like "western chemicals." And to think he would go on and use a deadly drug TO SLEEP after that. I just can't imagine Michael asking for that in the first place..to sleep? That doesn't sound at all like Michael. Just like I can't imagine Michael "playing" with little boys.

 

[amyzabeth]

And that mistake was made just a few days before Michael was to leave for London.....Sometimes I wonder if Michael wasn't going to take Murray along with him in London.....

Also, I can't see Michael asking that doc for the drug after the doctor tries to take him off it. Michael said with his own tongue when he was alive that he didn't like "western chemicals." And to think he would go on and use a deadly drug TO SLEEP after that. I just can't imagine Michael asking for that in the first place..to sleep? That doesn't sound at all like Michael. Just like I can't imagine Michael "playing" with little boys.

Yea, I mean no way would Michael ask for Propofol at 10:40am like the leaked affidavit says. Which came from Murray's mouth. I mean how is Murray going to claim Michael "demanded" Propofol at that time of day? Mike is usually down eating breakfast with his kids at about 9:30am so why would he want to go to sleep at 10:40 am? Just doesn't make sense.

 

[rainny]

Hello,

Ok I agree I dont want to see a dead Body from Michael dont get me wrong . But to tell you what I think there is no DEAD BODY .

.

So, do you think that the bodyguard who called 991, Murray, the paramedics,
doctors in the hospital, everyone who says to have seen MJ dead from Frank
Dileo to Karen Faye, and the coroner's office are all involved in keeping secret
that Michael Jackson wanted to fake his death and leave his three kids without
parent?

 

[Beachlover]

Obviously you have some of your facts wrong. Like I said before. Murray did CPR on the bed yes, but he put his hand behind Mike's back and did CPR with one hand? pfft gimme a break. He CLEARLY had no idea what he was doing. ok.. and that fact is coming from Murray's lawyer. He said the bed was "firm" so Murray put his hand behind Mike's back and did CPR with the other. yea... he really knows what he is doing. *sarcasm* :smilerolleyes:

This is your opinion of the situation and there is a lot more to CPR than just chest compressions. There is also breathing, which in case you aren't aware is also important. I don't know what his heart was doing at the time of the chest compressions; if there was a faint pulse or no pulse. You don't either b/c you weren't there. Yes, you can do CPR on a bed. I have no doubt the man was a cardiologist and knew how to perform CPR and I refuse to listen to the tabloids regarding that. Now...the question I would have is for how long did he not have a heart beat......

The fact is, CPR is supposed to be done on a hard surface it doesn't HAVE to be done on the floor, just a hard surface. But yet again, Murray didn't do that did he? Or does he consider one hand to be a good example of a hard surface? pff plz In your reality he gave Michael a small amount of Propofol. But in actual reality he gave Michael an acute amount of Propofol which in medical terms means a large amount. mk? This fact came from the autopsy report.

How about you think about this, Murray gave Mike propofol for weeks before that but all of a sudden he makes a "mistake?" mhmmm >.> I believe Murray was the fall guy in all this, I think more people are involved. How is Murray paying for those body guards again? Since he is sooooo broke. Murray said he was trying to take Mike off of Propofol yet gives Michael more that night? yeaaa that makes a lot of sence. :doh: And also, I don't know where you got the life support story, but I'm just gonna leave that one alone.

Well, we don't know what dose he gave. We only know what is stated on the police warrant or was stated by Murray. I don't personally know if Murray is or isn't the fall guy or who is paying for his body guards. I never thought that had anything to do with the investigation so I never gave it a second thought. I don't know for how long he gave this drug either. I heard reports that he used it in London but I truly can't answer those questions because I wasn't there.

Also, yes Mike was napped for hours before he was taken to the hospital. If you didn't know Mike's fireplace was on in his room, on a summer day in California. So that was used to keep his body warm so they, meaning paramedics would think Mike was still alive or his heart had stopped beating not too long ago. Another thing, Murray was the one who forced the paramedics to take Mike to the hospital, they wanted to declare him napping at the house, but oh wait then it would become a crime scene and Murray wouldn't have time to hide the evidence. So of course since Murray has a higher authority over the paramedics, since he is a doctor and all, they took Mike to the hospital, and you know the rest.

Yes, I read that the fireplace was in the room and there was some reporter saying that the reason was to keep the body warm so that no one could trace the time of death. Ok. I got that, but do I know this is the reason for a fact? Maybe Michael was always cold and liked it that way. Now about those paramedics. Did they call their superior and say there was a problem? Did they think that it was OK to work on a dead man? Have you ever dealt with paramedics? They don't want to do anything out of their scope of service and won't move a patient they feel is unstable from one hospital to another. They can be really picky. I find it really hard to believe they found a person in livor mortis and didn't think to call someone and say "Hey...something is really wrong here." But ok.....you think its normal.

And regarding the 'rest'. No, I don't know the rest.

I know there are reports the body was showing signs of lividity which means he was dead for at least 20 minutes and there is no hope of saving this person so why would the hospital work on this person for about an hour to figure this out? Maybe you can answer that one.

I can't figure out why he wasn't a Dead On Arrival..can you?

I am still baffled as to what the EMS guys found at that house and why they didn't even think to call someone to alert them there was a big problem when they arrived. Having a 'doctor' over them doesn't excuse them from doing the right thing. If I had responded and found a person to be clearly dead for some time I would have called my boss PRONTO!!!!!!!

 

[kasume]

The autopsy results reveal what we are trying to put together right now.

Once those reports are released (which I feel should be since millions are interested in what really happened) we'll KNOW.

I have one question, did the investigation turn homicide AFTER the autopsy results came in?

But I also heard it was a murder investigation from day one, I think from Mr. Carr if I remember correctly. Anyways, if that is true, then like someone said, the LAPD wanted to keep eveything completley under cover so as not so spoil the investigation.

 

[amyzabeth]

Yes, I read that the fireplace was in the room and there was some reporter saying that the reason was to keep the body warm so that no one could trace the time of death. Ok. I got that, but do I know this is the reason for a fact? Maybe Michael was always cold and liked it that way. Now about those paramedics. Did they call their superior and say there was a problem? Did they think that it was OK to work on a dead man? Have you ever dealt with paramedics? They don't want to do anything out of their scope of service and won't move a patient they feel is unstable from one hospital to another. They can be really picky. I find it really hard to believe they found a person in livor mortis and didn't think to call someone and say "Hey...something is really wrong here." But ok.....you think its normal.

And regarding the 'rest'. No, I don't know the rest.

I know there are reports the body was showing signs of lividity which means he was dead for at least 20 minutes and there is no hope of saving this person so why would the hospital work on this person for about an hour to figure this out? Maybe you can answer that one.

I can't figure out why he wasn't a Dead On Arrival..can you?

I am still baffled as to what the EMS guys found at that house and why they didn't even think to call someone to alert them there was a big problem when they arrived. Having a 'doctor' over them doesn't excuse them from doing the right thing. If I had responded and found a person to be clearly dead for some time I would have called my boss PRONTO!!!!!!!

Yea Mike was soo cold during a hot summer day in California that he needed his fireplace on in his room. Yea Right :smilerolleyes:

Like I told you before Murray is a doctor so the paramedics trusted his judgement. Because he is higher authority than the paramedics. get it?

And by knowing the "rest" I figured that you knew that Mike was declared napping at the hospital, but I shouldn't have assumed you knew that.

And the hospital worked on him because hellooo it's Michael Jackson duhh. And also they didn't know how long he had been not breathing because again as I stated his body was WARM because like I said again, the fireplace was ON.

 

[kasume]

Yea Mike was soo cold during a hot summer day in California that he needed his fireplace on in his room. Yea Right :smilerolleyes:

Like I told you before Murray is a doctor so the paramedics trusted his judgement. Because he is higher authority than the paramedics. get it?

And by knowing the "rest" I figured that you knew that Mike was declared napping at the hospital, but I shouldn't have assumed you knew that.

And the hospital worked on him because hellooo it's Michael Jackson duhh. And also they didn't know how long he had been not breathing because again as I stated his body was WARM because like I said again, the fireplace was ON.

you're right. i agree.

 

[MJJ7777]

I'm sorry if this may have been discussed previously but Beachlover you seem to know alot about hospitals and emergency procedures, Can you or anyone else offer some insight as to why the ambulance sirens weren't on and nor did the vehicle seem to be in a hurry in and out of MJ's house, which is usually a sign that the patient has no hope of resuscitation, in other words, already dead?

No one was rushing, what's up with that?

 

[Beachlover]

Yea Mike was soo cold during a hot summer day in California that he needed his fireplace on in his room. Yea Right :smilerolleyes:

Like I told you before Murray is a doctor so the paramedics trusted his judgement. Because he is higher authority than the paramedics. get it?

Actually, no, I don't get it. Like I said to you, if I were one of the paramedics and I walked into a home to a person with lividity I don't care what the doctor tells me to do. I'm calling someone. This is why I don't believe the whole story was told to us. Get it?

And by knowing the "rest" I figured that you knew that Mike was declared napping at the hospital, but I shouldn't have assumed you knew that.

And the hospital worked on him because hellooo it's Michael Jackson duhh. And also they didn't know how long he had been not breathing because again as I stated his body was WARM because like I said again, the fireplace was ON.

Well, actually I think I understand who this man was. I think I understand that it was stated somewhere that the fireplace was on but I don't know if it was a tabloid story or for real. Again, I don't know Michaels personal preferences as to wanting the room hot or not. He used to wear jackets on stage because he was always cold. Maybe he liked the fireplace. I didn't get the opportunity to ask him. Get that?

Also, I don't understand why he wasn't declared DOA if he really was. I know who he was, but it was still a legal issue for them too. So, I am wondering if maybe he didn't have a heart beat at all during that time....or if there really was no lividity and maybe he didn't die all that long before the EMS guys got there. Thats my point. You don't know. You are going by what was said by people but we have never heard from the actual EMS guys themselves so we don't know. We never heard from the person who made the actual 911 call and was in the room with him so we don't know. There is a lot we just don't know. Got it?

 

[Beachlover]

I'm sorry if this may have been discussed previously but Beachlover you seem to know alot about hospitals and emergency procedures, Can you or anyone else offer some insight as to why the ambulance sirens weren't on and nor did the vehicle seem to be in a hurry in and out of MJ's house, which is usually a sign that the patient has no hope of resuscitation, in other words, already dead?

No one was rushing, what's up with that?

I do know a lot about hospitals and emergencies and from what I understand there was some stupid thing said regarding the fact they had to go slow because they were working on him and it is dangerous to go fast with needles, etc? That made no sense to me. What could they have been doing so emergent in the vehicle if they just worked on him in the house for 45 minutes and it was reported there was never a pulse?

They sure didn't seem to be in a rush. Now, I don't know if they put on the sirens after they pulled out of the driveway. We didn't get to see that part....just the part behind the gates.

I will say this much. I work with EMS guys all the time and if something isn't 100% right to them they call their office. When we are transporting from one hospital to another they won't even pick the person up and put them in their vehicle if they think there 'might' be a problem. They call the office. They want NO responsibility on their own. This is why I am scratching my head that no one called the office when they arrived at a scene like the one described.

UNLESS........this was not the case at all.

 

[Autumn II]

Yea Mike was soo cold during a hot summer day in California that he needed his fireplace on in his room. Yea Right :smilerolleyes:

Like I told you before Murray is a doctor so the paramedics trusted his judgement. Because he is higher authority than the paramedics. get it?

And by knowing the "rest" I figured that you knew that Mike was declared napping at the hospital, but I shouldn't have assumed you knew that.

And the hospital worked on him because hellooo it's Michael Jackson duhh. And also they didn't know how long he had been not breathing because again as I stated his body was WARM because like I said again, the fireplace was ON.

Absolutely. I'm pretty sure it was obvious that he was long-gone when the paramedics got to his house, but Murray insisted they put on a big show with trying to revive him. Anyone notice how SLOWLY the ambulance left his house? At the hospital, Murray refused to call time of death. That was when the coroner was called in, although I'm sure the coroner's office would have been called regardless.

Even though he was "warm" (fireplaces) it must have been obvious to the paramedics that whatever they did wasn't going to work, at that point.

There was certainly a lot of pressure on the medical people to keep working on him, BECAUSE he was Michael Jackson, and despite their knowing it wasn't going to be possible.

A key question here is WHY Murray wanted it to seem Michael died much later than he really did. . . . . ?

 

[callmerose]

I'm thinking, could this last bottle of Propofol been tampered with? I mean contained something lethal and was waiting to be used?

Good point! That bottle could have had a more concentrated solution of propofol. I think if some one had slipped in a different chemical, it probably would have shown up in the autopsy. It must have been seomthing like you suggest or Murray gave Michael a lot more propofol than he admitted to.

 

[Beachlover]

Absolutely. I'm pretty sure it was obvious that he was long-gone when the paramedics got to his house, but Murray insisted they put on a big show with trying to revive him. Anyone notice how SLOWLY the ambulance left his house? At the hospital, Murray refused to call time of death. That was when the coroner was called in, although I'm sure the coroner's office would have been called regardless.

Even though he was "warm" (fireplaces) it must have been obvious to the paramedics that whatever they did wasn't going to work, at that point.

There was certainly a lot of pressure on the medical people to keep working on him, BECAUSE he was Michael Jackson, and despite their knowing it wasn't going to be possible.

A key question here is WHY Murray wanted it to seem Michael died much later than he really did. . . . . ?

I have a problem with Murray calling time of death in the hospital for several reasons. Number one. He did not have 'privileges' to practice at that hospital so once the patient is delivered to the ER it is out of his hands totally and he is no longer the doctor in charge. He would have no say as to what would happen from that point on.

This is a legal issue. He would not have been asked to 'call' anything in that hospital and I'm not even sure he would have been asked to sign the death certificate as has been said over and over. It wasn't his call at that point.

Yes, I understand the EMS guys would have wanted to 'save' Michael Jackson but if they walked in on a scene where the person were obviously long gone they would have called. If not then, they would have called when they got to the hospital. Something.

Maybe we are all assuming these things didn't happen but they did in fact happen. Or....maybe he was not really dead that long.

I think a lot of what we believe happened, never really happened.

 

[callmerose]

Absolutely. I'm pretty sure it was obvious that he was long-gone when the paramedics got to his house, but Murray insisted they put on a big show with trying to revive him. Anyone notice how SLOWLY the ambulance left his house? At the hospital, Murray refused to call time of death. That was when the coroner was called in, although I'm sure the coroner's office would have been called regardless.

Even though he was "warm" (fireplaces) it must have been obvious to the paramedics that whatever they did wasn't going to work, at that point.

There was certainly a lot of pressure on the medical people to keep working on him, BECAUSE he was Michael Jackson, and despite their knowing it wasn't going to be possible.

A key question here is WHY Murray wanted it to seem Michael died much later than he really did. . . . . ?

If this is true then I am sure the LAPD have interviewed the paramedics who obviously would have known right away if Michael was dead or alive when they arrived. So, Murray must have had some explaining to do.

 

[Beachlover]

If this is true then I am sure the LAPD have interviewed the paramedics who obviously would have known right away if Michael was dead or alive when they arrived. So, Murray must have had some explaining to do.

Since this investigation is going on as long as it has, it has made me more suspicious of others involvement in this and not just Murray.

 

[MJJ7777]

I have a problem with Murray calling time of death in the hospital for several reasons. Number one. He did not have 'privileges' to practice at that hospital so once the patient is delivered to the ER it is out of his hands totally and he is no longer the doctor in charge. He would have no say as to what would happen from that point on.

This is a legal issue. He would not have been asked to 'call' anything in that hospital and I'm not even sure he would have been asked to sign the death certificate as has been said over and over. It wasn't his call at that point.

Yes, I understand the EMS guys would have wanted to 'save' Michael Jackson but if they walked in on a scene where the person were obviously long gone they would have called. If not then, they would have called when they got to the hospital. Something.

Maybe we are all assuming these things didn't happen but they did in fact happen. Or....maybe he was not really dead that long.

I think a lot of what we believe happened, never really happened.

I'm afraid so. These contradictory almost senseless reports of what happened appear to have a purposeful motive. Is it to throw certain people off track?

Maybe The LAPD want some to think that they know less than what they really know.:scratch:

 

[Beachlover]

I'm afraid so. These contradictory almost senseless reports of what happened appear to have a purposeful motive. Is it to throw certain people off track?

Maybe The LAPD want some to think that they know less than what they really know.:scratch:

Yes, that or maybe the tabloids and news stories get carried away with 'facts' that aren't really true and we believe them because we don't always know we are being duped.

It is very easy to believe news stories, especially when they are reported by places like CNN or Associated Press but sometimes they are quoting someone and that someone may be lying. It isn't that the news is wrong....it is the person who spoke is an idiot? Does that make sense?

 

[callmerose]

Since this investigation is going on as long as it has, it has made me more suspicious of others involvement in this and not just Murray.

Me too. If it had only been Murray, I think it would be over by now, since he admitted to giving Michael the propofol.

 

[MJJ7777]

Me too. If it had only been Murray, I think it would be over by now, since he admitted to giving Michael the propofol.

Good point.

 

[amyzabeth]

Well, actually I think I understand who this man was. I think I understand that it was stated somewhere that the fireplace was on but I don't know if it was a tabloid story or for real. Again, I don't know Michaels personal preferences as to wanting the room hot or not. He used to wear jackets on stage because he was always cold. Maybe he liked the fireplace. I didn't get the opportunity to ask him. Get that?

Also, I don't understand why he wasn't declared DOA if he really was. I know who he was, but it was still a legal issue for them too. So, I am wondering if maybe he didn't have a heart beat at all during that time....or if there really was no lividity and maybe he didn't die all that long before the EMS guys got there. Thats my point. You don't know. You are going by what was said by people but we have never heard from the actual EMS guys themselves so we don't know. We never heard from the person who made the actual 911 call and was in the room with him so we don't know. There is a lot we just don't know. Got it?

One question why do you keep replying to me in red type? lol

Ok but you keep saying "If I were one of those paramedics" But you're not one of those paramedics. They had to listen to Murray because they knew he was a doctor because the person who called 911 said there was a personal doctor present. So that probably got passed on the the paramedics who were going to the house. They probably trusted his judgement. And they didn't figure out the lividity thing till later. When they arrived they saw his body was still warm, but no heartbeat, so they decided to work on him at the house. Since Murray basically forced them to work on Michael. Once again since he is the doctor they had to listen to him. higher authority.

They worked on him at the house for a bit, but like others have brought up in this thread, if they thought Mike still had a chance why weren't the sirens going? Why were they taking their good ol' time leaving Mike's house and getting to the hospital? The paramedics were probably being pressured by Murray, even though they knew Mike was already gone, Murray wanted them to continue working on Mike so then Mike would be declared napped at the hospital.

Otherwise if Mike was declared napped at the house, the house would have become a crime scene. Then the police would have blocked it off immediately. Instead the other people responsible for the crime had time to hide evidence, and had time to take the security tapes, so people now don't know who came and left Mike's house after he was taken to the hospital. I still think the LAPD should have blocked off Mike's house fromt he very beginning but they didn't which allowed others to come in and do what they needed to do to save their own asses.

You are right, there are a lot of things we do not know, but why not expand our minds and try to figure out what happened eh? I mean this is the investigation unit and that's basically what we are going to have to do. We have to come up with scenario's to what we think happened and we just basically put a puzzle together. From the facts we DO have we need to come up with scenario's for what occured. We just try to figure out which one fits best. Not every person who was "there" in that house is gonna come out and say what happened. I mean they might be too scared to. IMO the main people behind Mike's napping are still working to cover their asses. Murray is just the fall guy.

 

[Beachlover]

One question why do you keep replying to me in red type? lol

Sorry. I use it because it stands out better than other colors but blue is fine too.

Ok but you keep saying "If I were one of those paramedics" But you're not one of those paramedics. They had to listen to Murray because they knew he was a doctor because the person who called 911 said there was a personal doctor present. So that probably got passed on the the paramedics who were going to the house. They probably trusted his judgement. And they didn't figure out the lividity thing till later. When they arrived they saw his body was still warm, but no heartbeat, so they decided to work on him at the house. Since Murray basically forced them to work on Michael. Once again since he is the doctor they had to listen to him. higher authority.
I simply disagree because this makes no sense to me. They didn't decide if you claim Murray told them what to do. That means they took his orders unquestionably and I find it very hard to believe paramedics would do that. And NO, they didn't 'have to' listen to him because he was a higher authority if what they found there was as crazy as is being stated here in this forum. Would YOU work on someone if you clearly saw there was something very wrong and alarm bells were going off in your head without calling your boss first? This is all I am saying. You are putting your own spin on the story. We don't know what Murray told them or what condition Michael was in when they arrived.

They worked on him at the house for a bit, but like others have brought up in this thread, if they thought Mike still had a chance why weren't the sirens going? Why were they taking their good ol' time leaving Mike's house and getting to the hospital? The paramedics were probably being pressured by Murray, even though they knew Mike was already gone, Murray wanted them to continue working on Mike so then Mike would be declared napped at the hospital.

"Probably being pressured by Murray to do what?" What does it mean that they went slow and took their time going to the hospital? Not sure your point here. Always remember what I said. Once Michael went into the hospital it was then up to those doctors to determine whether or not he was dead or alive and what they could do for him. So they worked on a dead body for an hour for what reason?

Otherwise if Mike was declared napped at the house, the house would have become a crime scene. Then the police would have blocked it off immediately. Instead the other people responsible for the crime had time to hide evidence, and had time to take the security tapes, so people now don't know who came and left Mike's house after he was taken to the hospital. I still think the LAPD should have blocked off Mike's house fromt he very beginning but they didn't which allowed others to come in and do what they needed to do to save their own asses.

So, then you think the paramedics were in on this too then?
You are right, there are a lot of things we do not know, but why not expand our minds and try to figure out what happened eh? I mean this is the investigation unit and that's basically what we are going to have to do. We have to come up with scenario's to what we think happened and we just basically put a puzzle together. From the facts we DO have we need to come up with scenario's for what occured. We just try to figure out which one fits best. Not every person who was "there" in that house is gonna come out and say what happened. I mean they might be too scared to. IMO the main people behind Mike's napping are still working to cover their asses. Murray is just the fall guy.

On that we agree but I think where we disagree is with what we believe to be a fact. I think a lot of the information we have on Murray is not based on fact but based on judgment.

 

[rainny]

.

A key question here is WHY Murray wanted it to seem Michael died much later than he really did. . . . . ?

Because, if possible, he wanted the actual death to have happened

while on someone else's hands.