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Please Forgive Me & Please Correct Me If I am Wrong ok ; Michael was forewarned

BillieJean84

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Please correct me if I am wrong ok (I have not seen any papers /documents yet) If Michael Jackson was told by previous doctors or just 1 other dr. about this drug, that 1. its very dangerous 2. he could potentially die. , then how does this play into the case? Its not like Michael could not have known how dangerous this drug was because he called a black woman dr & she told him after looking it up, that she feared he would die.

But he kind of just brushed it off & said he'd be ok.


So please correct me if I am wrong ... discussion
 
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Re: Please Forgive Me & Please Correct Me If I am Wrong ok ; Michael was told already

That's what I cannot understand. And knowing that the stuff is dangerous and deadly, why would he ask for it after already being drugged with so much other chemicals arealdy in his system?

Something tells me Michael didn't do that. And then the nurse said Michael didn't even want to read about the Propofol, so she had to read it to him.

Seriously, he isn't that stubborn. And anyways, Michael was always seeking for knowledge about almost everything.

And if Michael was told already, he would at least take was she said into consideration at least a little bit. Because from what happened that night, it seems like they told Michael it was SAFE instead.
 
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Michael had a lot of medical knowledge, and I'm sure he had a PDR (Physician's Desk Reference), which is available to the general public. If this was a drug he was taking or had taken in the past, surely he knew the risks? So either he was suicidal (which no one has suggested), or something very different happened from "the story" we've been given by Murray and by the press.
 
I'll say it for the 1000 times , in sedation levels , you needed no anaethesist and you needed no intubation or even face mask . That's why he was very comfortable with it .
 
Victoria83 said:
Michael had a lot of medical knowledge, and I'm sure he had a PDR (Physician's Desk Reference), which is available to the general public. If this was a drug he was taking or had taken in the past, surely he knew the risks? So either he was suicidal (which no one has suggested), or something very different happened from "the story" we've been given by Murray and by the press.
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The story isn't from "Murray" it is from Nurse C. Lee.

Very simply, if Michael used this drug in the past, he was aware and when Lee approached him with the book he already knew the potential problems. Thats why he was having a doctor administer in the first place. You CAN give this drug to yourself at home by injection if you have access to it.

By the way, I do know someone that did that and is no longer with us.
 
Soundmind said:
I'll say it for the 1000 times , in sedation levels , you needed no anaethesist and you needed no intubation or even face mask . That's why he was very comfortable with it .
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Doesn't really matter how many times it's said. There is NO medical professional anywhere that I've ever heard of who says to administer propofol in a home setting is ok to do, under ANY circumstances, face-mask or not, need for "intubation" or not. It's virtually UNHEARD of, and surely Michael knew that. He was not stupid.
 
Soundmind said:
I'll say it for the 1000 times , in sedation levels , you needed no anaethesist and you needed no intubation or even face mask . That's why he was very comfortable with it .
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Klein said to think that Murray had been giving him Propofol

on I.M form. Did you heard that during the interview?
 
Maybe he knew it was dangerous, but the fact that the doctor agreed to do it made him think it wasnt AS dangerous? Cause we know murrays an idiot now, but at the time mj had no reason to be worried if his doc told him 'yeah ill do it , it'll be fine' .
And apparently he'd used it before and had no problems then? (mind you come to think of it im not sure if those were tabloid stories or fact)
 
yes & it shouldn't make too much difference considering all MJ wanted to do was just take a long nap. not committ suicide, not die. Sleep.
 
I can only surmise that because Michael had received it many times before, both in a medical setting and while he toured, he had some sort of trust in it, however misguided that may have ultimately been. Given his devotion to his children, Michael must have had a genuine belief he wouldn't be in danger is all I can surmise. It surely sounds like he had alot of faith in Murray, tragically.

When on tour in the past, supposedly the doc actually did have a monitoring system in use and utilized it. Not saying that made it right. Problem is this time the "doc" didn't perform to the same level for whatever "reason", be it neglect/malpractice/purposeful.
 
But in saying that he'd used it before, if we are to believe the HIStory tour story, it was also said that he traveled with a "mini clinic" so, in believing that he had prior use with propofol, he would have known that he needed those same monitoring supplies right? I wouldn't equate a "mini clinic" to just an I.V. stand and an oxygen tank, I'm assuming that "mini clinic" would have included some kind of monitoring devices "oxygen levels, heart rate, etc." So if Michael would "risk" being seen traveling with an anesthisist and a mini clinic, why wouldn't he have all of the correct monitoring devices in the privacy of his own home along with making sure the proper revival equipment was also present? Comfortable with the use of it or not, I'm sorry, I just can't see Michael saying, well the actual anesthesiologist needed all of this equipment but its ok that Murray (not a trained anesthesiologist) doesn't have the proper equipment, it'll be ok. I don't buy it.
 
But why would this nurse lie? Theres only 1 nurse, that I know of, that told Michael it was too dangerous to use & she even predicted his own fate. This nurse has no reason to lie at all. According to her, she had said that Michael tried to talk her into getting the drug over the phone but she refused.

This nurse has no reason to lie.
 
If Propofol was used as it is in operating rooms, I

can't think of how and why they didn't have the right

equipment either.

It's like saying, ' hey.... the brakes of my car are not

working today, but I'll fix them tomorrow', and entering

the highway.



Hey BillieJean84, that's a nice gif :) Is that your lover?
 
I believe he was just desperate for sleep and couldn't resist. I think being told by Murray that it's not as dangerous kind of made him "justify" it but he was still in denial. Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

Also, knowing that Michael was stubborn, he refused Dr.Lee's advice.

This is not to say that I blame Michael for his death because I truly blame Murray as it is his responsiblity not to give patients anything dangerous ; regardless of how much they beg for it.
 
oh don't get me wrong I do not blame anybody but 1 person - Dr. Murray. But!.. I just wasn't sure how this would come into play in the trial. & it would be the Defense's agrument.

& yes, as much money as one persons paying the dr, as much as this person begs & pleads for something this dangerous, someone's lifes on the line. Dr. Murray should've known better which brings me to my next point- any 13 year old knows you can't perform CPR / mouth to mouth on a mattress.
 
BillieJean84 said:
oh don't get me wrong I do not blame anybody but 1 person - Dr. Murray. But!.. I just wasn't sure how this would come into play in the trial. & it would be the Defense's agrument.

& yes, as much money as one persons paying the dr, as much as this person begs & pleads for something this dangerous, someone's lifes on the line. Dr. Murray should've known better which brings me to my next point- any 13 year old knows you can't perform CPR / mouth to mouth on a mattress.
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Trial?

Since there is no justice in the Michael Jackson world - he'll either get away with it or get away lightly.
 
Victoria83 said:
Michael had a lot of medical knowledge, and I'm sure he had a PDR (Physician's Desk Reference), which is available to the general public. If this was a drug he was taking or had taken in the past, surely he knew the risks? So either he was suicidal (which no one has suggested), or something very different happened from "the story" we've been given by Murray and by the press.
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I truly believe the latter. I NEVER believed the 'he ASKED for it, he BEGGED for it, he DEMANDED it" story. Way too convenient and a VERY easy 'alibi' to use for a cover up.

If this was another celebrity who this has happened to and this very same explanation/excuse was given, the media and everyone else would demand Conrad Murray's head on a platter. But since this is Michael Jackson that it happened to, the story is believable and accepted as truth--as usual. I don't buy it.
 
This story that Michael was forewarned about Propofal but he demanded and took it anyway is the perfect 'alibi' for Murray to get as much blame off of him as possible and put it on Michael so he can get his 'slap on the wrist' charge of manslaughter like it was originally planned from the get go instead of the murder 1 charge he and other players in this murder RIGHTFULLY deserve. Part of the cover-up plan, people. And the media as a majority, is more than happy to go along with it because they can't stomach the idea of reporting this HOMICIDE case as Michael being the victim....not to mention that the majority of them are a bunch of lazy sheep. He had to be at fault for his death in some way. And as usual, the majority of the public including some that post on here is gobbling it down and digesting it.
 
rainny said:
Klein said to think that Murray had been giving him Propofol

on I.M form. Did you heard that during the interview?
Click to expand...

Klein is under investigation himself. We do not know with what kind of drug Michael was injected in Klein's office. Fans say they saw MJ under strong influence each time when he was leaving Klein's office.
Was Michael aware what kind of drugs he was given? There are some drugs could keep you hyper if they are in the system and a person cannot sleep. In the end this person wants just ANY drug juts to sleep. There are so many things covered in this sad story. I am not sure we ever will find out what really happened.
Propofal in the end killed him. But what was BEFORE? Do we know? Why he would want Propofal so badly?
 
Asedora said:
Klein is under investigation himself. We do not know with what kind of drug Michael was injected in Klein's office. Fans say they saw MJ under strong influence each time when he was leaving Klein's office.
Was Michael aware what kind of drugs he was given? There are some drugs could keep you hyper if they are in the system and a person cannot sleep. In the end this person wants just ANY drug juts to sleep. There are so many things covered in this sad story. I am not sure we ever will find out what really happened.
Propofal in the end killed him. But what was BEFORE? Do we know? Why he would want Propofal so badly?
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If Michael was seeing Dr Klein and having injections in his face, I would seriously HOPE that Klein gave him something for the pain since it is extremely painful to have these facial injections. It makes sense to give him something for that pain. I would think if he did not give him anything and injected his face with shots to bump out wrinkles or impurities in his skin it would be inhumane and I would not do that to a dog.
 
I agree Murray's story about Michael begging for propofol is a crock of shit.....Murray has the medical license...HE was the one administering ....HE is the murderer.......I dont hold Michael responsible for any of this in any shape or form..and I am sorry if people dont agree with me.!!!
 
Asedora said:
Was Michael aware what kind of drugs he was given?
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As I said me another discussion...

My opinion...

Michael was not stupid and had full knowledge of remedies. He knew what he was taking, which could not take the right dosage, side effects and risks that he could suffer. I doubt that Michael did not read the label of all their remedies.

Yes, Michael knew.
 
I don't buy that Michael asked for it. Easy to say that now since he's not here to refute you. And there's no way a nurse would have to read anything to him. He was a voracious reader.
 
goldiee said:
I don't buy that Michael asked for it. Easy to say that now since he's not here to refute you. And there's no way a nurse would have to read anything to him. He was a voracious reader.
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ok. but the black lady, I think her names Dr. Lee, said that she told Michael over the phone. Thats all I'm saying. She has no reason to lie about this piece of info.
 
xthunderx2 said:
I agree Murray's story about Michael begging for propofol is a crock of shit.....Murray has the medical license...HE was the one administering ....HE is the murderer.......I dont hold Michael responsible for any of this in any shape or form..and I am sorry if people dont agree with me.!!!
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I DO agree with you, and I don't hold Michael responsible. I don't believe the "Michael was begging for propofol" story for one second. Not sure why Nurse Lee would lie, except to lighten the blame for Murray and make it seem like it was somehow Michael's fault? If you remember the gist of her "story," it was that Michael was begging her for propofol. Doesn't hold water. Michael would have known that it would be unlikely a nurse could prescribe or administer propofol, and certainly not administer it in his HOME.

Michael was not the doctor in the situation. It was NOT his fault.
 
Victoria83 said:
Michael would have known that it would be unlikely a nurse could prescribe or administer propofol, and certainly not administer it in his HOME.
.
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What she said was that MJ asked her if she knew or could _find_ him

someone who would give him Propofol.
 
ashtanga said:
As I said me another discussion...

My opinion...

Michael was not stupid and had full knowledge of remedies. He knew what he was taking, which could not take the right dosage, side effects and risks that he could suffer. I doubt that Michael did not read the label of all their remedies.

Yes, Michael knew.
Click to expand...

This is not a question of being stupid or not. This is the question of dioctors being honest with him what kind of medication they were putting in his body. Michael couldn't control every step what doctors were doing.
 
Victoria83 said:
I DO agree with you, and I don't hold Michael responsible. I don't believe the "Michael was begging for propofol" story for one second. Not sure why Nurse Lee would lie, except to lighten the blame for Murray and make it seem like it was somehow Michael's fault? If you remember the gist of her "story," it was that Michael was begging her for propofol. Doesn't hold water. Michael would have known that it would be unlikely a nurse could prescribe or administer propofol, and certainly not administer it in his HOME.

Michael was not the doctor in the situation. It was NOT his fault.
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To be totally honest with you..I am yet to figure out Nurse Lee's role in all of this...the "why" of her coming out with her story...She was the first person that I heard of speak of the propofol to my recollection....I really dont believe her when hes says that Michael begged her for propofol....to me there are so many unanswered questions that surround Michael's death...I do believe the answers ARE out there...IMHO...someone somewhere WILL slip up.....there is NEVER a perfect crime....We may never find out every little detail about Michael's death...But in time..I think we will find out.....I agree...follow the money and we will learn alot.
 
Asedora said:
This is not a question of being stupid or not. This is the question of dioctors being honest with him what kind of medication they were putting in his body. Michael couldn't control every step what doctors were doing.
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Michael knew what he was taking. He could not control the doctors, but he could decide what to take/not take that he was conscious of what is good and bad and question the doctor about the use of certain remedies. Michael knew the risks of remedies. He would not take a remedie without knowing what was taking.

Many things in this story does not fit. Fact. :mello:
 
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