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Monster - The Great Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

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Re: Monster - The Great Debate

Vlens said:
com' on now! I never said it doesn't sound like MJ, i just say he sounds different cause of the reasons said millions times. I don't want to debate about this, i just want to talk about the songs and enjoy MJ's new music.
So i'm going of this forum for a while, untill things are back to normal!
It's not i don't have arguments, but i don't see the point if we keep saying the same things and i keep believing, and you keep not believing


Nevertheless, i hope one day we can just talk about MJ's music without all these bad feelings ;) We are all just fan of this legend ...
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Yes but those reasons are invalid if you ask me. You are talking about that it was recorded in a basement , right? And thats the reason it sounds so weird, there have been plenty of other examples which make this whole thing rather invalid if you ask me. And no, i ain't the fan that thinks he never had alcohol, i know he did..i think he said it in a interview, but he certainly wasn't proud of it. I just don't see a line like that coming from him.

Sorry Ivy, but its not just a few words and sentences that sound like Michael. He's blatantly copying him in every way possible, some things just can't be copied though, like how words are pronounced, signature things from MJ, only the man himself could do.

When you listen to the Cascio tracks and compare them to JM and MJ, and it sounds MUCH more similar to JM than MJ....it's quite obvious something is seriously wrong. Like i explained already today, the high pitched parts, its not like it sounds similar to Jason's high pitched part, it's exactly the same, i hear practically no difference.Really..the only reason to believe that it's Michael's vocals and not Jason's, is because the Estate said so. While lots and lots of indications/signals/examples , you name it..show that the chance is huge that it's someone else.
 
Re: Monster - The Great Debate

^
That would be something we'll agree to disagree.
 
Re: Monster - The Great Debate

Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
Yes but those reasons are invalid if you ask me. You are talking about that it was recorded in a basement , right? And thats the reason it sounds so weird, there have been plenty of other examples which make this whole thing rather invalid if you ask me. And no, i ain't the fan that thinks he never had alcohol, i know he did..i think he said it in a interview, but he certainly wasn't proud of it. I just don't see a line like that coming from him.
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No, not only the basement. Bad recording material, voice sounded different. Take 'We are the world' 2006. To me, when he sings in the beginning you can't hear him very good, but he sounds like keep your head up, monster .. and the end, you have to admit that's just weird how he sings. He sings that high on monster too (after 50 cent's part), and it sounds just the same to me

I also read articles claiming michael was in a bad voice in the beginning of this is it rehearsals... That he coudn't hit the notes right... but that doesn't necasserely mean sounding different, i know, just a thought

And i believe michael could do alot with his voice, and was trying to do something different.

But how come JM never made great music (to me), and now he has 3 great songs (7 we not know of) ... not made for himself but for someone else?
 
Re: Monster - The Great Debate

You really think Michael would have included something he recorded in a basement on his new album?
 
Re: Monster - The Great Debate

Vlens said:
And i believe michael could do alot with his voice, and was trying to do something different.
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Before going to New Jersey in summer 2007, he sounded exactly like he did throughout his whole career. He left in November and recorded tracks in Las Vegas including HMH, where his vocals and pronunciation are spot on.

Why would he have completely changed his singing style completely in such a short time - and then gone back to normal? A vibrato doesn't change so dramatically overnight, then go back again.
 
Re: Monster - The Great Debate

No, Michael would never have released songs recorded in a basement on his album. Unless it was some hi-tech underground studio where he dwelled and wrote masterpieces.. then he may.

I'm still on the fence about these tracks. They all sound like Michael, but I agree that something is off. I really can't tell if it's him or not for certain, I'd need to see more evidence for that.

I'd really appreciate some more photos or notes written about the songs or even a journal entry perhaps?

'Today I wrote a new song called Breaking News, Big hit, make huge $'

Something like that... There seems to be evidence for everything else, except these tracks, and this pointless bickering back and forth, saying the same things over and over, is getting really irritating to the majority of fans here.

We want to be able to enjoy this music in peace and discuss it in peace, but we're being divided over this.

Do you think this is maybe done on purpose to divide the community?

Before, we were getting along, now we don't know what's true and what isn't and it's creating anger and hatred. We're torn, and maybe that's exactly what the people who have wanted to destroy Michael want.

We must stick together and simply try to find the truth.
 
Re: Monster - The Great Debate

This Is It said:
Before going to New Jersey in summer 2007, he sounded exactly like he did throughout his whole career. He left in November and recorded tracks in Las Vegas including HMH, where his vocals and pronunciation are spot on.

Why would he have completely changed his singing style completely in such a short time - and then gone back to normal? A vibrato doesn't change so dramatically overnight, then go back again.
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Hollywood tonight sure sounds different too, many think that's the fake track and not monster (at my place, my friends thought hollywood tonight was fake and monster real). best of joy also sounds different, but not on the same level. I don't hear it actually, on the casio tracks, yea he sounds different, but obviously MJ in my opinion. Not as dramatic as people make it out to be.

And why does nobody answer my questions? about We are the world 2006. You can't deny him sounding different?

And Jason never making hits, and now, for another artist ... BAM, awsome songs
 
Re: Monster - The Great Debate

Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
So basically nothing new here...the shit is still going on. And of course there'll always be someone who can't stand the fact that there are people who don't believe in these tracks, and start calling them stubborn and what not. Well my friend..JacksonMan in this case, i feel sorry for you...sorry that you can't hear the difference. Are you actually gonna tell me that when you hear Monster, you don't hear someone else? Wow...i truly feel sorry for you then. See what i'm doing? I'm doing exactly the same as you...not respecting your opinion.

It's fine that you turned around and all of a sudden believe in the songs because....sigh....of the analysis, oh yeah...that makes it's 100% proof man, WOW! If they had this kind of proof, why haven't they still shown it? It's really not that hard for them. Something ain't right, and people know it. The three tracks are a joke, a bad joke. Has ZERO to do with that it was recorded in a basement studio, cause why DO we clearly hear Michael on the phone recording then? Why do we clearly hear him on any kind of demo? Why was there never any analysis of songs nessecary until these shit songs came out? Do tell me that...but of course, you can't.

Open your ears people, really....the more i hear Monster and the other two tracks (and i try to keep that at a minimum) the more i clearly hear it's SO not Michael. I don't even care about words from sony or estate that they have done tests, oh you did huh? Then show it. By showing real proof you could remove this whole ongoing fiasco.
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don't feel bad for me. feel bad for the fans missing out. feel bad for MJ to have his fans calling his music crap.
 
Re: Monster - The Great Debate

samhabib said:
Man... I can't wait to get on my computer to discuss this! Jacksonman tries to distance Arklove from being a fan because she joined after Michael's death?!? Even though he joined over a full year after she joined?!? Absolutely ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous!
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I'm guessing at this point even arklove would say this post was pointless. And to be honest I have two accounts. My other one is from a very long time ago. I was also a member of Mj remix forum for years before the site went down. I'm an impersonator for crying out loud.
 
Re: Monster - The Great Debate

This Is It said:
Before going to New Jersey in summer 2007, he sounded exactly like he did throughout his whole career. He left in November and recorded tracks in Las Vegas including HMH, where his vocals and pronunciation are spot on.

Why would he have completely changed his singing style completely in such a short time - and then gone back to normal? A vibrato doesn't change so dramatically overnight, then go back again.
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It can when you have control over your vibrato. According to that logic the chorus for smooth criminal must be sung by a different person than the verses. People just don't go from singing feminine to agressive and scratchy overnight you know :)

MJ is capable of singing in many different ways. And he had made it clear to the public you were going to be hearing new sounds, a different sounding MJ. We were expecting that when he was alive, because he told us he was doing it.

I don't doubt were going to get more songs that sound like a different person. MJ was constantly doing this while he was alive. That's why he was so good at what he did, because he was capable of doing a lot of different things with his voice.

It's like now that he died, you guys consider him to be some 2 dimensional vocalist who can only do one thing with his voice. You guys gotta realize MJ ain't your average run of the mill musician.

Does anybody doubt it's MJ's voice your hearing when he plays the mayor in Ghosts?
 
Re: Monster - The Great Debate

Vlens said:
No, not only the basement. Bad recording material, voice sounded different. Take 'We are the world' 2006. To me, when he sings in the beginning you can't hear him very good, but he sounds like keep your head up, monster .. and the end, you have to admit that's just weird how he sings. He sings that high on monster too (after 50 cent's part), and it sounds just the same to me

I also read articles claiming michael was in a bad voice in the beginning of this is it rehearsals... That he coudn't hit the notes right... but that doesn't necasserely mean sounding different, i know, just a thought

And i believe michael could do alot with his voice, and was trying to do something different.

But how come JM never made great music (to me), and now he has 3 great songs (7 we not know of) ... not made for himself but for someone else?
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Plus the fact that Jason Malachi is now suddenly able to scream in a way he never was able to before. The ad lybs on Monster are way out of Malachi's league. Could somebody show me even one song where Malachi has been able to do that? Because we have a huge collection of songs where MJ does it.

"why'd you do it, why'd you do it" There are about 7 billion people on the planet. Not one of them can hit those notes like that. The guy that could is no longer with us.
 
Re: Monster - The Great Debate

Pentum said:
You really think Michael would have included something he recorded in a basement on his new album?
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no but unfortunately he's dead. It's not like he can come back and re-record them right? Similarly we can argue that he wouldn't release a song that he recorded in the 80's in the same format, or he wouldn't release a song with a huge talking part in the middle, or songs that are already leaked.

This Is It said:
Before going to New Jersey in summer 2007, he sounded exactly like he did throughout his whole career. He left in November and recorded tracks in Las Vegas including HMH, where his vocals and pronunciation are spot on.

Why would he have completely changed his singing style completely in such a short time - and then gone back to normal? A vibrato doesn't change so dramatically overnight, then go back again.
Click to expand...

btw (probably) in all the professional recordings and also in TII rehearsals (fact) Seth Riggs was present to warm up Michael. It doesn't seem like such preparation was used for Cascio demos.
 
Re: Monster - The Great Debate

Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
For all the believers out there...just check this out. And please don't go denying that these vocals are IDENTICAL. Don't jump to conclusions without listening to this. If i was someone who believed in the Cascio tracks..this surely would have schocked me.

[youtube]_gaNIiFM6WQ[/youtube]
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they are very simmilliar. but not identical. the breaking news ad lyb sounds way scratchier, and I'm still yet to hear Malachi get all throat rattly.

Very close though.
 
Re: Monster - The Great Debate

Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
You completely misunderstand me. It's pretty obvious this asshole is trying way too hard to sound like Michael, F him for that...really. Come with your own stuff or simply quit.

My point is, the vocals on the Cascio tracks in that youtube video are IDENTICAL, exactly the same as the vocals from the Jason Malachi songs. This is yet another example of how he's on the Cascio tracks. I didn't need any convincing , cause i didn't believe any of it from the start. This was simply for the believers out there.

Also this....oh my god, how can people deny this?!!!!!! The high pitch part is exactly the same!!!!!

[youtube]1fIUJX0V9TU[/youtube]

[youtube]GqSUzidgI2s[/youtube]

It's all fine if people want to believe in it...but they cannot deny this, it's impossible to deny.
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I wont deny Malachi does a very impressive impersonation of MJ, but I can still tell the difference between the two, and I think Sony would be terrified to use Malachi, because it would bo so easy to run Malachi's voice through an analyzer and prove it's him. Malachi's got a lot of music for people to run through the machine.

I also wonder where the hell sony is going to find a bunch of people to sound like MJ, and how the hell they are going to prevent them from letting the secret out. Your going to really have to trust somebody in that situation to keep their mouths shut.

The only way I could see Sony doing this, is if they are intentionally planning to expose this very soon, and then release another MJ album right after that is 10 times better. It would give his fan base that whole MJ against the world obession many of them crave so much. It could be really good publicity for MJ, not for Sony though. sony would obviously need a fall guy to protect themselves.

Really though, crazy conspiracy theories aside Michael is singing on Michael. Not Malachi.


edit... and those videos still fail to show me malachi sounding the way MJ sounds when he screams at the end of Monster.
 
Re: Monster - The Great Debate

ivy said:
If I can answer this - we kinda discussed this on the other thread as well.

when you listen to Jason Malachi songs , YES you find a line, a sentence, a word that DOES sound like Michael (or Cascio songs like you call it). and that youtube videos pick and choose those parts and compare it to Cascio songs to make a point. (so it's a selective comparison not an objective one by the way)

However if you listen to whole Jason Malachi songs you see that some parts actually do not sound like Michael (or Cascio songs like you call it) at all.

It's kinda finding a E'Casonava picture with the correct lighting and angle etc and say it's Michael when hundred other pictures of him look obviously nothing like him.
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Thank you. that's the thing. these people are looking for one note here and one note there that sounds a lot alike. And they ignore all the parts of the songs that Malachi can't do. When you listen to a Malachi song it doesn't sound perfectly like MJ all the way through. Especially ad lybs.

Plus why would sony pick malachi? that's just setting themselves up, because any detective lab, any news organziation would be able to use Malachi's cds for a comparison in an analyzer. It would have been exposed already. That would be huge news.
 
Re: Monster - The Great Debate

I think parts of 'Monster' are Michael and other parts aren't. The very first line "You can look at them..." sounds VERY similar to the first line of Mr. Malachi's song 'Let Me Let Go' ("I remember you..") In fact, the melodic structure of those two quoted lyrics are extremely close. That was the first thing I noticed, and it threw me off straight away. However, I think the gritty/screaming parts could be Michael ("Why you stalkin' me?") and the "Ohhhh" and "Yeah" parts are sampled from other songs...
 
Re: Monster - The Great Debate

I will admit I do have a little doubt. I believe it's MJ, but I wouldn't bet my life on it. It's unfornateate our debate got so ugly. I think it was honestly from people debating dishonestly. If someobody makes an undeniable point, and somebody pretends to not understand for no point other than trying to frustrate the other side people will get angry and such.

I made efforts not to debate like that. You don't see me sitting here saying Malachi sounds nothing like MJ, or nothing like the cascio tracks. When talking about financical motivations and incentives people shouldn't deny that Sony would probably be bankrupt by now, if they had hired an impersonator.
 
Re: Monster - The Great Debate

Tom said:
I think parts of 'Monster' are Michael and other parts aren't. The very first line "You can look at them..." sounds VERY similar to the first line of Mr. Malachi's song 'Let Me Let Go' ("I remember you..") In fact, the melodic structure of those two quoted lyrics are extremely close. That was the first thing I noticed, and it threw me off straight away. However, I think the gritty/screaming parts could be Michael ("Why you stalkin' me?") and the "Ohhhh" and "Yeah" parts are sampled from other songs...
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when he screams Why you stalking me? the "why you stalking" sounds like the MJ were accustomed to, but the last word "me" part sounds like the vocals he's using for must of the song.
 
Re: Monster - The Great Debate

Tom said:
I think parts of 'Monster' are Michael and other parts aren't. The very first line "You can look at them..." sounds VERY similar to the first line of Mr. Malachi's song 'Let Me Let Go' ("I remember you..") In fact, the melodic structure of those two quoted lyrics are extremely close. That was the first thing I noticed, and it threw me off straight away. However, I think the gritty/screaming parts could be Michael ("Why you stalkin' me?") and the "Ohhhh" and "Yeah" parts are sampled from other songs...
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I think so too.
I am very frustrated by all this because I LOVE THE SONG !!!!!!
:punk:
 
Re: Monster - The Great Debate

Vlens said:
Hollywood tonight sure sounds different too, many think that's the fake track and not monster (at my place, my friends thought hollywood tonight was fake and monster real). best of joy also sounds different, but not on the same level. I don't hear it actually, on the casio tracks, yea he sounds different, but obviously MJ in my opinion. Not as dramatic as people make it out to be.

And why does nobody answer my questions? about We are the world 2006. You can't deny him sounding different?

And Jason never making hits, and now, for another artist ... BAM, awsome songs
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Hollywood tonight just uses autotune, thats why it sounds differen't. But it's still got him written all over it. I mean listen to him at 1:11 it's perfection. Practically ever lead line in monster is at least questionable, i'm not saying it isn't him, but i would never say it was either. Sure he could change is singing style if he wanted to, but everyone is ignoring the fact that this doesn't sound anywhere near as good, and takes every kind of distinctive quality out of the legends voice, why would a genius want to do that?. If that was him, i'm sure he wouldn't keep it like that on a final version, and would have regretted singing it like that, i think he'd be mortified with it being a single. I also think the actual vocal melody, it's so un MJ, it's so poor boy band pop, the sort of thing malachi does, the only other track with this feel (breaking news). Mj was an innovator thoughout his entire solo career, this style of song is dead, it was so late 90s early 2000s, i don't believe he would record such songs. take slave to the rhythm, it has the modern dance sound, it was recorded around the period monster/ breaking news style tracks were being released and recorded, and it has the sound music has right now. Look at hollywood tonight, it's melodically so similar to stuff Mj has done in the past, i don't wanna get to musically technical, but it has his style written all over it, he went for certain chord choices shall we say. Best of joy has a clear beegees influence, something MJ always professed to enjoy listening to, which makes it obvious he was involved in the composition. I'm going with what my instincts are literally screaming at me here. But i accept people will have differen't opinions on the subject and that is perfectly ok.
 
Re: Monster - The Great Debate

ivy said:
btw (probably) in all the professional recordings and also in TII rehearsals (fact) Seth Riggs was present to warm up Michael. It doesn't seem like such preparation was used for Cascio demos.
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I don't think he was warmed up to sing down the phone for the TWLYM demo - but he still sounded like Michael Jackson always did. Same goes for the '93 Mexico deposition when he was ill, on drugs and recorded on a budget camcorder.
 
Re: Monster - The Great Debate

Vlens said:
Hollywood tonight sure sounds different too, many think that's the fake track and not monster (at my place, my friends thought hollywood tonight was fake and monster real). best of joy also sounds different, but not on the same level. I don't hear it actually, on the casio tracks, yea he sounds different, but obviously MJ in my opinion. Not as dramatic as people make it out to be.

And why does nobody answer my questions? about We are the world 2006. You can't deny him sounding different?

And Jason never making hits, and now, for another artist ... BAM, awsome songs
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I listened to it just now, and yes..he sounds different, like he sounded a bit different on some invincible tracks, BUT he was ALWAYS recognizeable, easily recognizeable actually. And again with WATW 2006, for the few parts he sings and you can hear him well, you can still clearly hear it's Michael. Nowhere close sounding to the Cascio vocals.

[youtube]y1ILXOePB9U[/youtube]

AnnieRUOkay89 said:
Excuse me for believing these two vocals sound nothing alike when compared this way.
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Come on...when he sings 'Breaking the news...' that doesn't sound similar to Jason on this to you?
 
Re: Monster - The Great Debate

This Is It said:
I don't think he was warmed up to sing down the phone for the TWLYM demo - but he still sounded like Michael Jackson always did. Same goes for the '93 Mexico deposition when he was ill, on drugs and recorded on a budget camcorder.
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all of which are "low quality recordings" but none of them are processed through melodyne and have modified pitch and vibrato.

don't forget that Cascio songs are not only demos which recorded with not warmed up vocals with not perfect conditions but they are also (heavily) processed. We don't have the raw vocals to make a decent comparison.
 
Re: Monster - The Great Debate

Heavily processed ,Melodyned or not...would it change the way a person says this? The way the singer says Michael Jackson in BN is very off. The way words are pronounced, that would never change.. i don't believe it for a second.

[youtube]ZsiqC5NGR-Q[/youtube]
 
Re: Monster - The Great Debate

Let's say I bought some expensive SONY headphones not the inner ear ones. Really excited to listen to the Cascio tracks, especially Monster because I was CONVINCED it was Michael.

Let's say it made it worse. Jason is singing.

No way does them tracks sound ANYTHING like Michael's vocals. Where does that elongated vibrato come from?

If these really were Michael, then people wouldn't be speculating. I don't wanna hear any crap about because the Jacksons, you had it in mind that they could be fake. I had a clear mind. I have officially made my mind.

To be honest all of which Cascio has said is to make people believe so that everyone will buy the records and to get him famous.

Breaking News is correct.

Everybody wanting a piece of Michael Jackson.

Money.

They are FAKE.

Fed up with it.
 
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Re: Monster - The Great Debate

Pentum said:
The vocals are so weak.
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On this I have to agree, not counting the ad lybs. I love the song Monster, but the vocals are not too impressive in terms of skill level.
 
Re: Monster - The Great Debate

JacksonMan said:
On this I have to agree, not counting the ad lybs. I love the song Monster, but the vocals are not too impressive in terms of skill level.
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The "Hoooo-oooo-oouuu" and "Yeeee-eeee-eee" are great though ;)
 
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