Michael - The Great Album Debate

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I'd like to think that that "Making of Michael" was finished long before the album was released, so proof probably wasn't thought of back then. I do agree that they should've released these fabled videos, and the only thing I can think of is that they're saving them. I seriously think that the Cascios are VERY oblivious to the situation, hence why I suggest inviting one of them to a Q&A here, where they must be armed with proof.

The theme of that "Making of Michael" is Michael's "roadmap"... I know damn well it's marketing strategy. But still, I enjoy the segment with Neff U. He seems to know what he's doing. The notes and the tape he showed and played are wonderful for fans to see.

Eddie showed absolutely nothing. Again, why not? Not everything has to be driven by fans' requests.

Honestly, I have a hard time believing Eddie is oblivious about the whole situation.

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

By oblivious, I mean unaware of the extent of the situation. I honestly doubt he's met MJ's fans, people like us. He doesn't really know what we want, only what he believed Michael wanted, and in all fairness, I don't believe that MJ would want footage of him singing half-heartedly, most likely in pyjamas or something released. I agree, Neff-U went above and beyond a producer in this project, he's the best producer that worked on the album.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

The album was one of the best selling albums globally in 2010. So it "sunk miserably" to who's standards?

The album had potential to be huge....HUGE....They had plenty of opportunity to make that happen...

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

No one is denying that they're decision making wasn't very great for this album.

That's one reason why this whole thing is so frustrating. Who could have thought Sony can screw up Michael Jackson's first posthumous release in such magnitude.

It seems they didn't aim to create an artistic product that can ignite the industry. They just wanted to cash in and create a commercially viable product. Of course, this album can make money for them, just like any other products that bear Michael Jackson's name. What a disappointment!

Seriously, what kind of marketing strategy is this? So, is Hollywood Tonight officially released or not? Digital download or CD? When will Behind The Mask be released? So, they released HT to radio stations weeks ago, got that youtube video out last week and people still don't know where to get the single?

I'm a fan who follow this forum religiously and I still don't know what really is going on. How are they going to expect the single to lift the sales of the album up?

The steam is running out again and again. They never managed to build up the excitement. Don't blame the fans! The fans have nothing to do with such incoherent strategy.

 

[kopwatcher]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

If I was in charge of it, the album would have been the biggest of the whole f-ing decade. It's not hard. Just follow three simple rules:

1. Choose the best songs
2. Don't mess with them
3. No fakes

Piss easy. Eveyone's happy.

 

[Alec]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

The album had potential to be huge....HUGE....They had plenty of opportunity to make that happen...

not only could this album have been huge commercially, but also artistically. They had no limitations - the Estate were able to push it to the limits if they only wanted to.
They had all of Michael's unreleased music... the whole industry willing to work on the project... and tons of unreleased video footage... and even an unreleased photo session!

they FAILED. big time.

This album could have been one of the biggest of this millenium. And I'm not living in a JacksonFan Wonderland.

The first mistake was made with This Is It - why was this song released with the movie and not Best Of Joy or Another Day? One of these would have been a top 20/top 10 hit all around the world with the movie behind it.

Then the album should have been launched with Slave To The Rhythm and MJ would have had two hit singles within a year, STTR undoubtedly hitting number 1 in multiple countries.

That's one reason why this whole thing is so frustrating. Who could have thought Sony can screw up Michael Jackson's first posthumous release in such magnitude.

THE ESTATE SCREWED UP! It was their job to make sure it was nothing less but perfect!

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

"Hollywood Tonight" will be released as a CD single on March 31st in Korea, I've already pre-ordered. Plus, it will be released as a 7" vinyl with (apparently) "Behind the Mask" (Radio Edit) on the B-side on April 16th for Record Store Day... I hope to get one, though there's always a chance that I might not.

@Alec, what unreleased photo session?

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

If I was in charge of it, the album would have been the biggest of the whole f-ing decade. It's not hard. Just follow three simple rules:

1. Choose the best songs
2. Don't mess with them
3. No fakes

Piss easy. Eveyone's happy.

Guess they missed that memo.

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

The album had potential to be huge....HUGE....They had plenty of opportunity to make that happen...

What do you mean by "HUGE"? Because judging by today's sales numbers, no album will be "HUGE" in the near future, regardless of the promotion. "HUGE" in today's music standards are around 500k units sold. So what do you mean? Were you expecting this album to have the same numbers as those that did when he was alive?

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

By oblivious, I mean unaware of the extent of the situation. I honestly doubt he's met MJ's fans, people like us. He doesn't really know what we want, only what he believed Michael wanted, and in all fairness, I don't believe that MJ would want footage of him singing half-heartedly, most likely in pyjamas or something released. I agree, Neff-U went above and beyond a producer in this project, he's the best producer that worked on the album.

Michael would have never wanted Breaking News, Monster and KYHU released in such conditions. I can bet everything I have on this statement.

If Eddie really believed what Michael wanted, he should never ever think about releasing those demos.

IMHO, hearing Michael in those songs is worse than seeing him in PJ's. Actually, he's cute in PJ's. :cheeky:

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

not only could this album have been huge commercially, but also artistically. They had no limitations - the Estate were able to push it to the limits if they only wanted to.
They had all of Michael's unreleased music... the whole industry willing to work on the project... and tons of unreleased video footage... and even an unreleased photo session!

they FAILED. big time. This album could have been one of the biggest of this millenium. And I'm not living in a JacksonFan Wonderland.


THE ESTATE SCREWED UP! It was their job to make sure it was nothing less but perfect!

They screwed this one up. And, they also cast shadow in future releases. If I was will.i.am and saw what they did with this album, I wouldn't want to put my name at risk and get involved with the Estate and Sony.

The Estate and Sony could have used this opportunity to show the world and all the big shot producers in the industry that they are very seriously in reinforcing the artistic quality of Michael Jackson's music. Sadly, they just proved will.i.am right that no song can be called a Michael Jackson song without the involvement of Michael Jackson.

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I had a feeling you'd say that! Adhering to the "Roadmap" rule, these songs seemed to be among Michael's last complete (in a sense) work. Plus, as we've seen, they are releasable with a LOT of work. I agree, with that state, they shouldn't have been released, but I think that it does show that they were thinking about the "Roadmap", in terms of last tangible work.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

What do you mean by "HUGE"? Because judging by today's sales numbers, no album will be "HUGE" in the near future, regardless of the promotion. "HUGE" in today's music standards are around 500k units sold. So what do you mean? Were you expecting this album to have the same numbers as those that did when he was alive?

Of course I don't expect that....Who would expect that? The album had potential....Had the people in charge of this done HALF of the promotion of other albums you see nowadays, and not include half-assed questionable songs, you and I both know this album could have seen MUCH better numbers....That much is obvious...

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

"Hollywood Tonight" will be released as a CD single on March 31st in Korea, I've already pre-ordered. Plus, it will be released as a 7" vinyl with (apparently) "Behind the Mask" (Radio Edit) on the B-side on April 16th for Record Store Day... I hope to get one, though there's always a chance that I might not.

@Alec, what unreleased photo session?

If you are not a regular here, would you know a CD single will be available in Korea? And, are they kidding me, Behind the Maske on B-side???

Yeah, may be it really is Bubble making decision. Monkey business going on...

As for the unreleased photo session, remember those blue eye photos taken by the French photographer?

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I had a feeling you'd say that! Adhering to the "Roadmap" rule, these songs seemed to be among Michael's last complete (in a sense) work. Plus, as we've seen, they are releasable with a LOT of work. I agree, with that state, they shouldn't have been released, but I think that it does show that they were thinking about the "Roadmap", in terms of last tangible work.

You mean my comment on the PJ's? :cheeky:

 

[Alec]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

@Alec, what unreleased photo session?

Arno Bani's. Certainly, even if not all these photos are that great, it was something more than interesting to work with for this particular release.

IMO Will.I.am backed out of the project because he realized what people they are and how they approach the music. This is also the vibe I got from him when we spoke about this last September.
If I were him I would NEVER willingly associate myself with this disaster.

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I agree, it could have seen better numbers. But that doesn't mean that the numbers it did have weren't worthy of classifying the album as a "tank". It sold well, in today's music standards that is.

 

[Jesta]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Yes, I did mean the PJs
Ah, yes. I have the auction book with those pictures in, they're very nice!!!

Yeah, you're right. A non-MJ fan wouldn't know anything about this. In fact, whenever I bring it up to non-fans, they ridicule me and call me crazy. In fact, one person said that he's surprised that MJ was recording, considering he last song was called "Six Feet Under". It's sickening! But I digress. Yes, apparently "Behind the Mask" will be the B-Side for the vinyl. But I still hope that the song will get its own single release. Speaking of, I am getting my footage for the video recorded tomorrow so I can finally start rehearsals for the show again!

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I agree, it could have seen better numbers. But that doesn't mean that the numbers it did have weren't worthy of classifying the album as a "tank". It sold well, in today's music standards that is.

Well, I guess, all in all, that's what I meant...Maybe it didn't 'tank', but it also didn't sell as well as it could have...and that was totally preventable...We all just watched it ultimately take a nose-dive when that didn`t have to happen...This is Michael Jackson! He sells more than 'well' for any music standards....be it presently, or in the past...

 

[kopwatcher]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

It was MJ's first posthumous album. Even if it was MJ farting for 45 minutes it would have sold well.

 

[Alec]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Anyway, commercial success aside... this album could have revived the industry.

A club song like STTR with such lyrics and vocal delivery OWNS Lady Gaga and any other BEP shit that's out there. This combined with a reworked electro-club version of Blue Gangsta (I'm not too fond of this idea, but it would sell well, I guess), the new breezy reworked version of The Way You Love Me and other unreleased tracks would make for something very, very special.

edit:

I hate the obsession with club music that we have going on right now (or should I say the past two years), so obviously if I was in a position to decide I wouldn't do this... but if they wanted commercial success - this was the way to go. No doubt. Even the DJ Chuckie remix of Hollywood Tonight could chart quite high if released as a proper single and an album track...

 

[analogue]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Whenever i listen to Slave To The Rhythm i always wonder why they never included it on the album and released it as a single. It's like what were they thinking? The song would have been huge.

Next album hopefully

 

[Alec]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Whenever i listen to Slave To The Rhythm i always wonder why they never included it on the album and released it as a single. It's like what were they thinking? The song would have been huge.

Next album hopefully

The industry WILL have changed by the time a new album comes...
The Estate missed out on the chance they had with this song and they won't have another. It has leaked too, so the wow factor is gone.

But it is true - STTR could have easily been Mike's first number one in years if released as the lead single.

 

[ivy]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

They had all of Michael's unreleased music... the whole industry willing to work on the project... and tons of unreleased video footage... and even an unreleased photo session!

just a fyi - photographers own the copyright to their work (unless they are work-for-hire or sign away their rights). So that unreleased photo session was the property of Bani (as he could easily sell / auction them). They would have been required to buy it from him.

similarly who owns what video footage would depend on the situation.

 

[analogue]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Maybe they figured that having Hold My Hand as a single with Akon who is popular at the moment would have helped sales, and yeah i do think the reason why Hold My Hand was picked as the very first single was because it had Akon on it and they tried to use that to bring in the younger crowd. This didn't work though because like Alec have said before now a days people are obsessed with club songs

 

[Alec]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

just a fyi - photographers own the copyright to their work (unless they are work-for-hire or sign away their rights). So that unreleased photo session was the property of Bani (as he could easily sell / auction them). They would have been required to buy it from him.

similarly who owns what video footage would depend on the situation.

of course. they had it ready to use, just needed to sort it out financially.
Also, I'm sure Bani would be more than willing to have his photos included in a new project and a following marketing campaign. Certainly it would be more profitable for him than auctioning the stuff.

The point is there was an unreleased photo session and hours of unreleased video footage from Michael's career that COULD help to make the album an unforgettable project, which they obviously decided not to use in favor of a mediocre painting and a group of second rate film extras.

Maybe they figured that having Hold My Hand as a single with Akon who is popular at the moment would have helped sales, and yeah i do think the reason why Hold My Hand was picked as the very first single was because it had Akon on it and they tried to use that to bring in the younger crowd. This didn't work though because like Alec have said before now a days people are obsessed with club songs

Yep. What I'm surprised didn't happen though (and I expected lots of it!) that there was NO promotion from Akon whatsover for this song... I was thinking that if they decide to go with this as the lead single, even though it's not the best song, they're gonna milk this with half-live performances everywhere (Akon live, Michael from tape), interviews etc. There was none of that.
Same thing I thought would happen with Another Day if they released it later on - Michael would be shown singing the song in the studio (such footage exists for this particular song) and Lenny would play live on stage.

 

[azsummergirl]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

alec brings up great points.

they did this on purpose. there's nothing oblivious or unintentional about it. easiest thing in the world to release a michael jackson cd. one of the greatest and best-known singers of all time. The whole world is hungry for new material b/c it's just a short while after he passed, built in fan base of millions and millions, any (every) imaginable celebrity or producer willing to help, INCREDIBLE songs like "Slave" to work with, and a hit concert documentary to support the release, and they miss the boat on everything?! not only do they miss the boat, they sink the boat with fake tracks. it's unbelievable. it's so unbelievable that it's calculated.

 

[love is magical]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I just cannot imagine how the promotion campaign be this bad. Like Alec said, there is absolutely no help from Akon or Lenny. The Making of Michael is not shown on TV. No major store display. No radio airplay. All we got are a not-so-interesting booklet and two not-so-interesting videos.

I know there is a problem when the first thing I thought of after watching the video of HT is how great a dancer Sofia is. I'm more impressed with the female dancer after watching a Michael Jackson video. :doh:

It seems Sony just relied on the exisiting name recognition and take advantage of it. Michael Jackson is as well known as Coca Cola and McDonald. So, they released an album to cash in.

While the sales of the album is respectful. The sales figure really is nothing to cheer about. It could have been so much more. I'm just so frustrated to see the opportunity slip away. The buzz on a second posthumous release will diminish. It's even more challenging to build up the momentum next time around.

 

[Arklove]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

alec brings up great points.

they did this on purpose. there's nothing oblivious or unintentional about it. easiest thing in the world to release a michael jackson cd. one of the greatest and best-known singers of all time. The whole world is hungry for new material b/c it's just a short while after he passed, built in fan base of millions and millions, any (every) imaginable celebrity or producer willing to help, INCREDIBLE songs like "Slave" to work with, and a hit concert documentary to support the release, and they miss the boat on everything?! not only do they miss the boat, they sink the boat with fake tracks. it's unbelievable. it's so unbelievable that it's calculated.

This. 100%. It is next to impossible to actually screw up THIS much unintentionally. We've seen excuse upon excuse not only for the fake tracks, but for the shoddy promotion. Just how much more will it take??

@Alec - great points

 

[teli-mj]

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

The thing is that i feel that whoever is responsible for Michael's music, new releases or whatever right now, is either totally incompetent OR ( and this is the worst case) they don't give a f@@k about Michael as an artist or his legacy and their goal is to make some quick bucks. I personally thing that is a combination of those two but i also think that the fact that they put three disastrous track in the first cd after Michael Jackson's death speaks volume of their respect about the man himself and his legacy.

And to quote MJ : They don't care/ They use me for the money.