Michael - The Great Album Debate

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

It was MJ's first posthumous album. Even if it was MJ farting for 45 minutes it would have sold well.

Which it did, if you're expecting sales numbers in the millions, you're going to be in for quite a surprise. The album was a commercial success for Sony, that's all they wanted, I'm implied to believe that that's all they paid for, so they can be entitled to the credit when these albums come and say "Michael is back", they can say "we did it". They want an album that will sell enough to be considered a commercial success, they aren't aiming to do anything ground-breaking, as proven by the music video's and the promotion that went into this album.


This has now boiled over to not only a discussion about vocals, but about Sony and their marketing. Many of us discussed the possibility, long before the album came out, that Sony and The Estate will saturate, "remix", and butcher Michael's music in order to fit today's standards, we talked about it. Now we're upset that that's exactly what we got? In a perfect world, Michael would still be here, the music industry wouldn't be in the condition it's in, and Michael along with fellow artist will break the million records sold mark with ease, on a norm.


The reality of it is, no musical act is selling like that today, and when they do, the artist is usually here to represent themselves. This was a posthumous album, which normally doesn't receive the same amount of promotion that it would if the artist was alive. As much as we disagree with their decisions, what Sony did wasn't a mistake, it was industry norm, their only mistake was considering Michael as any other artist. As far as promotion, marketing goes, Sony did what any other label would. And what did they get out of it? One of the best selling albums worldwide in 2010, and we think they're going to veer away from that strategy? You have another thing coming.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

what is the latest sales figure for "Michael'?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I hate hearing everyone talking about Sony's mishandling of this album, it makes me depressed, because it's such the truth...

I, too, believe Sony intentionally sabotaged this album in certain promotional ways.

And that might not be in an evil/conspiratorial sort of way, but just that they are only in it for the profit and what is the smartest for them to spend...

This is always lame for die-hard fans. We hear constant stories of this where artists have to argue and argue with record labels that are totally wrong about the way to handle their art. When they let the artist handle it themselves they usually can have much more success.

I do feel that they could have made a lot more money off this album if they had done a better job with the singles and that really confuses me... but Alec, when you say the music industry will change in a couple years and they are missing a potential hit(with Slave), don't you think that argument could have been said if the song leaked in 1999? The song is supposedly a decade old and STILL sounds fresh and amazing. Like Michael said, great music is timeless.

So we'll see. I still hope to hear Slave To The Rhythm as a single one day... I really wish it would have been the lead or the second maybe after Hold My Hand. Then after Slave To The Rhythm should have been Best Of Joy or Hollywood Tonight, but I also agree that Best of Joy should have been released with This Is it.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Yep. What I'm surprised didn't happen though (and I expected lots of it!) that there was NO promotion from Akon whatsover for this song... I was thinking that if they decide to go with this as the lead single, even though it's not the best song, they're gonna milk this with half-live performances everywhere (Akon live, Michael from tape), interviews etc. There was none of that.
Same thing I thought would happen with Another Day if they released it later on - Michael would be shown singing the song in the studio (such footage exists for this particular song) and Lenny would play live on stage.

At least Paul Anka did that to promote the song "This Is It", meaning that an 80s demo got more promotion than this album.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Sony are disappointed with sales. No question. Sales were nowhere near what was forecast and nowhere near what they invested all those millions for.

Promotion has been terrible. Where they've tried to 'break new ground', they've just shown how out of touch they are. 'Worlds biggest poster'? Really?

The disasterous 'Visions' boxset should have been warning enough, really.

As for Sony having a 'worldwide' smash on their hands - they haven't. The album failed to hit number one in the UK and US (both usual stomping grounds for MJ) and was outsold almost 3 to 1 by Michael's own greatest hits collection. In fact, Number Ones is the only Michael Jackson album currently in the UK Top 100 album chart.

Pissing on the fans goodwill didn't help matters, either.
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Which it did, if you're expecting sales numbers in the millions, you're going to be in for quite a surprise. The album was a commercial success for Sony, that's all they wanted, I'm implied to believe that that's all they paid for, so they can be entitled to the credit when these albums come and say "Michael is back", they can say "we did it". They want an album that will sell enough to be considered a commercial success, they aren't aiming to do anything ground-breaking, as proven by the music video's and the promotion that went into this album.


This has now boiled over to not only a discussion about vocals, but about Sony and their marketing. Many of us discussed the possibility, long before the album came out, that Sony and The Estate will saturate, "remix", and butcher Michael's music in order to fit today's standards, we talked about it. Now we're upset that that's exactly what we got? In a perfect world, Michael would still be here, the music industry wouldn't be in the condition it's in, and Michael along with fellow artist will break the million records sold mark with ease, on a norm.


The reality of it is, no musical act is selling like that today, and when they do, the artist is usually here to represent themselves. This was a posthumous album, which normally doesn't receive the same amount of promotion that it would if the artist was alive. As much as we disagree with their decisions, what Sony did wasn't a mistake, it was industry norm, their only mistake was considering Michael as any other artist. As far as promotion, marketing goes, Sony did what any other label would. And what did they get out of it? One of the best selling albums worldwide in 2010, and we think they're going to veer away from that strategy? You have another thing coming.

This is the disconnect betwen fan and Sony/the Estate. We want an album that deserves to be called Michael Jackson's 11th studio album. They want low risk/high return, which they got.

May be it'll work to our advantage and help reinforce Michael's artistic integrity if this album flops miserably worldwide. So, Sony can rethink its strategy.

Now that this album is considered a commercial success for Sony, I don't think they are in it to spend the time and effort on any future album. They killed fans' goodwill with this album.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^ You didn't honestly expect more, though, did you, from the music business? They've been doing things like this forever. They've been destroying legacies and fan's dreams since their inception.
 
I don´t want to debate with a large post, i think that you only need the ears to know the truth about who sings in the Cascios tracks.

If you heard the audio comparisons, you will know who is the singer.

It´s not necesary to fight or explain anything.

Is easy to understand that is not the voice from Michael, and that it´s the voice from Malachi.

Malachi has the same voice as the Cascio tracks, the same tone, the same accent, and he also has the same faults in his voice when he sings, snorts etc...

By the way, i am starting to think that Jason, Eddie or Teddy are registered in this forum and they are also debating in this post.
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

If I was Eddie or Teddy I assure you guys I'd give you more insight. And if I was Malachi I'd upload clips of me singing the Cascio tracks.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^ You didn't honestly expect more, though, did you, from the music business? They've been doing things like this forever. They've been destroying legacies and fan's dreams since their inception.

I don't know how to answer this.

Straight from my heart, yes I expect appreciation and respect from the Estate and Sony. Don't treat Michael Jackson like any other artist. His legacy is an extraordinary one. It comes once in history. I don't think I'm exaggerating if I say Michael Jackson's catalog is a worldwide treasure. If they think they are doing enough, then think about doing more. See what can be done to make things better. Think like Michael.

If I face reality, then of course I have no expectation. It's all about profitability.
 
Right now Malachi prefer to not show in any place.

He deleted all his videos, performances etc...

He maybe post in MJ forums with other name. ¿?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^ You didn't honestly expect more, though, did you, from the music business? They've been doing things like this forever. They've been destroying legacies and fan's dreams since their inception.

And as a Michael Jackson fan you're supporting this because...???
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^ Read my post, the third one on this page. No I do not support what Sony have done with this album.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

May be it'll work to our advantage and help reinforce Michael's artistic integrity if this album flops miserably worldwide. So, Sony can rethink its strategy.

but the thing is, did it flop miserably?

I looked to the global yearly sales numbers from Billboard : in 2010 3 artists - Lady Gaga, Eminem and Justin Bieber- sold over 5 million copies. The 10th album on the list is Alicia Keys with only 2.3 million.

"Michael" is on the 2010 top sellers list with sales of 1.2 million copies (as of December 31, 2010) - that's the sales amount for 2 weeks (as the album is released in December 14).

The latest total sales number for "Michael" that I could find was February 2011 with 2.2 million.

When we look to the total sales per album (not yearly) Lady Gaga is the top seller with Fame Monster 7.7 million actual sales and 10 million copies shipped to stores.

so it looks like "Michael" is performing good enough to be a "top 10" album based on the sales numbers.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Yeah, 'Michael' has done well. It is still on display in most of the 'Bestseller' sections I see in music stores and such.

However there's really no denying that Sony could still be bringing in good money on this album but they ultimately failed with promotion of this thing. It seems like they didn't even really try and just let the fans buy it up.

Like I said in another thread, I only heard Hold My Hand played ONCE on the radio. I don't know how many times I've heard Britney Spears' new song Hold It Against me or Rihanna's S&M song.

Sony f%#&ed up big time with the marketing of this. I mean, I guess it's not a BIG TIME failure because Michael Jackson can sell an album with his name alone, but it's a failure in terms of enjoying the success it deserves...

And I'm kind of baffled by the way Sony did handle this album instead of milking it for all it's worth, but it's like they're afraid to go out there and get Michael's name big again.

I feel like there's definitely a conspiracy against getting Michael's great message out there.

Truth is they want sex and partying on the radio, not love and help for humanity.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

so it looks like "Michael" is performing good enough to be a "top 10" album

No doubt Michael would be thrilled.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

No doubt Michael would be thrilled.

I didn't make any claims of that sort, did I?

It's just based on the sales figures it doesn't seem like Sony would classify it as a "miserable flop".
 
"MICHAEL" was not supported by tons of fans.

If "MICHAEL" wouldn´t include fakes by Jason Malachi, it would sold much more albums.

It was a very very bad joke by Sony & Cascios.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

edit.
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

but the thing is, did it flop miserably?

I looked to the global yearly sales numbers from Billboard : in 2010 3 artists - Lady Gaga, Eminem and Justin Bieber- sold over 5 million copies. The 10th album on the list is Alicia Keys with only 2.3 million.

"Michael" is on the 2010 top sellers list with sales of 1.2 million copies (as of December 31, 2010) - that's the sales amount for 2 weeks (as the album is released in December 14).

The latest total sales number for "Michael" that I could find was February 2011 with 2.2 million.

When we look to the total sales per album (not yearly) Lady Gaga is the top seller with Fame Monster 7.7 million actual sales and 10 million copies shipped to stores.

so it looks like "Michael" is performing good enough to be a "top 10" album based on the sales numbers.

Ivy, you may have misread me. I realize the album didn't flop. The album is actually performing well in today's standard.

What I tried to say is that may be if the album did flop, Sony would be forced to re-think its strategy and put together a better effort and a more coherent marketing campaign with the next one.

Yeah, 'Michael' has done well. It is still on display in most of the 'Bestseller' sections I see in music stores and such.

However there's really no denying that Sony could still be bringing in good money on this album but they ultimately failed with promotion of this thing. It seems like they didn't even really try and just let the fans buy it up.

Like I said in another thread, I only heard Hold My Hand played ONCE on the radio. I don't know how many times I've heard Britney Spears' new song Hold It Against me or Rihanna's S&M song.

Sony f%#&ed up big time with the marketing of this. I mean, I guess it's not a BIG TIME failure because Michael Jackson can sell an album with his name alone, but it's a failure in terms of enjoying the success it deserves...

And I'm kind of baffled by the way Sony did handle this album instead of milking it for all it's worth, but it's like they're afraid to go out there and get Michael's name big again.

I feel like there's definitely a conspiracy against getting Michael's great message out there.

Truth is they want sex and partying on the radio, not love and help for humanity.

I don't agree with you often, but I agree with you totally on this post.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I didn't make any claims of that sort, did I?

It's just based on the sales figures it doesn't seem like Sony would classify it as a "miserable flop".

The biggest record deal in recent history and the first album doesn't even get to number one in the UK and US? It's a miserable flop. Relatively speaking. Compared to Justin Bieber (someone I would never measure Michael Jackson against) it's the best thing since sliced bread.

As a Michael Jackson product it's an unmitigated disaster.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Hmm... if I take the $250 million Sony paid to the Estate into consideration, then the performance of Michael is really nothing to cheer about.

I'm curious to see what Sony really thinks about this project.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I am pretty sure that Sony is very sorry to include those tracks and to not respect the opinion from many Mj forums when they streamed "Breaking news". When they saw the reaction from the fans after the fans heard "Monster" or "Keep your head up", they stopped the support to "Keep your head up", "Monster" or "Breaking news".

The expent so much money in Orianthi and other musicians for nothing.

None of them will be single.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

It IS the same voice. It will never change, no matter what.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Edit. Nevermind
 
Kapital77;3307183 said:
I don´t want to debate with a large post, i think that you only need the ears to know the truth about who sings in the Cascios tracks.

If you heard the audio comparisons, you will know who is the singer.

It´s not necesary to fight or explain anything.

Is easy to understand that is not the voice from Michael, and that it´s the voice from Malachi.

Malachi has the same voice as the Cascio tracks, the same tone, the same accent, and he also has the same faults in his voice when he sings, snorts etc...

By the way, i am starting to think that Jason, Eddie or Teddy are registered in this forum and they are also debating in this post.

You're right, I've heard comparisons and it's amazing, two different singers can hit the same notes! Wow!

It's easy to understand that it is Michael's voice. Michael has the same voice as the voice heard in the Cascio tracks.

By the way, I'm Jason Malachi :)
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Michael has the same voice as the voice heard in the Cascio tracks.

Which Michael Jackson vocal sounds like the vocals on the Cascio songs?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Which Michael Jackson vocal sounds like the vocals on the Cascio songs?

All. Why should I find a specific note? You make me a video comparing the vocals on Hollywood Tonight and Girlfriend.
 
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