^^ Well, it's just so weird that a lot of these Cascio tracks not only have identical or VERY similar vocals to Jason Malachi's, but the overall instrumentation, composition and lyrics are very, very similar as well. I mean, we can't compare any of these songs to Michael's own work, but we can to Jason's! And we're supposed to believe that this is THE Michael Jackson we're listening to? I don't think so.
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Chamife
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For me it really is too difficult to follow all of the discussion on MaxJax about the exact timetable and legal stuff for example, simply because English isn't my first language, but I try to. On the other hand, with music, I know what I hear and rely on that. I'm normally always pretty cautious when it comes to saying things with certainty, but with this I trust myself. If I turn out to be wrong, it will be a huge blow for me and I will be totally confused about the knowledge I always thought I had, but hadn't...
And I wouldn't be too proud to make apologies where they're due.
I've never compared Jason Malachi's songs (and especially his lyrics to that depth) with the Cascio tracks. Wil have a good look at them now and will try to see if there are more similarities (read: unlogical and/or empty, common and casual phrasing)
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Kapital77
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Jason Edward Cupeta, deputy sheriff.Jason once said he write songs. I believe that he wrote "A hero fell", "Stay", "All i need", "Kyhu", "Burn2night"...Jason spanglish style.And i believe that Soldier boy was written by Eddie and Porte.
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Chamife
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O my..listening to 'A hero fell' and already find similarities with KYHU and mixes of present time and past time in one sentence. And I'm only halfway through the first song/comparence.
[youtube]E2YmFAVXaiw[/youtube]
1.37 He gave you all he's got (??is it me, or does it have to be He gave you all he got/had or he gave you all he's gotten? Doesn't sound right. Present and past tense mixed up.
1.52 Here are the 'wings' again. Like the wings in KYHU (give me your wings so we can fly)
2.31 Very stricking to me: "I need you here today", like in KYHU "I need you(r light right) here today".
Excuse me if this is already being discussed. It's new to me...:bugeyed
Chamife
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I heard almost every Jason Malachi song, but never really listened to the structure/content of the sentences (furreigner..). Will do the same with room2breath and Where does freedom has gone.
found another 'strange' sentence btw in A hero Fell: 'You saw the world through the heart of a child'....
. How can you see the world through a heart? You can see the world through eyes though..It should be You saw the world through the eyes of a child...or, you had the heart of a child.
And later on: 'A child's heart in his eyes'...mmm...How can a heart be in the eyes? Same strange, unlogical lyrics as in Keep your head up.
No good songwriting skills, IMO, although I appreciate the effort he took for writing a song for Michael.
found another 'strange' sentence btw in A hero Fell: 'You saw the world through the heart of a child'....
It should be You saw the world through the eyes of a child...or, you had the heart of a child.
And later on: 'A child's heart in his eyes'...mmm...How can a heart be in the eyes? Same strange, unlogical lyrics as in Keep your head up.
No good songwriting skills, IMO, although I appreciate the effort he took for writing a song for Michael.
I don't really want to join this discussion, after following it a bit from time to time, I don't really have an opinion anymore ... but I just wanted to say that the lyrics you mentioned are not illogical, they are poetic. Never heard the expression "seeing with your heart (and not with your eyes)"?
Chamife
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Hi Milka,
I see the poetic intention in the lyrics and if he would've written 'He saw the world with his heart' it would be correct. But he didn't write that. If you're going to use expressions, they have to be right.
Anyway, to me the writing style shows similarities with, for instance, Keep your head Up.
I'm always very nit picky with lyrics...:rtfm:
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Yukon Jack
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Your comment cannot be any more meaningless. For thousands of years and in every civilization I've ever studied the expression of 'seeing with your heart' is unanimously testified, as is the idea of the 'eye of the heart'. If you want to be pedantic you might say that 'eyes' don't 'see' anything, but instead it is a conscious agent who is the subject of 'seeing', whereas 'vision' or 'light' merely passes through the 'eyes'; fortunately language isn't sized to logical exactitude but also contains openings to symbolism, metaphor, and various other poetic expressions. The idea of 'seeing with the heart' means that the object beheld, comprehended, or understood, is done so through the kernel of one's being, through the 'heart', the symbolic seat of consciousness. To 'see the world through the heart of a child' means obviously to behold the world through the innocence and wonder-stricken love of children.
I am somewhat confused by the rough treatment Malachi receives on this thread. One understands people are upset and hurt over the situation, but there is a sort of pettiness in the caustic language and unsympathetic denunciations directed at him. Michael, while extremely talented, was also the victim of American voyeurism and the entertainment industry circus. Much of his success as a performer has to do with the morbidity and performance pressures of his youth and the obscene expectations of the American public. Michael grew up surrounded by the freak show that is the music industry, which is why he always identified with freak shows and carnival atmospheres. Malachi is also very talented, though without having been raised in the same grotesque environment. His songs are generally lacking in substance (so are some of Michaels in my opinion), but for a more or less untrained part-time deputy the boy can sing.
None of this has any bearing on the question of Malachi and the Cascio tracks. I would just like to see a little more sobriety.
Chamife
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I love expressions and I know what they mean and how they can be used. My point is that that sentence (to me) wasn't the right expression, although I must say I'm not too familiar with English sayings/expressions (The Dutch for sure, not certain now of 'you saw the world through the heart of a child'...
, maybe it's an often used one in English) and that one not always can take them literally. So, if I understand it right, there's nothing wrong with that expression? It's commonly used? Because that is something I have difficulties with in some Cascio songs, like 'Give me your wings, so we can fly'. Maybe I'm crazy, but if you give your wings away, you can't fly anymore. I know what the writer means, though...that's not the point. It's the use of the expressions that bothers me. Also, 'rise above tomorrow' in KYHU. I know what the writer means, but you rise above current situations. I don't know how else to explain it. That's just one aspect of when I say the lyrics are unlogical (again, to me..). I don't have problems with using expressions/sayings. I love them, but they have to be right.I don't have any interest in deliberately bringing down an artist. If I don't like it, I don't listen to it. Everyone is entitled to their own musical taste. I agree on Malachi's songs lacking in substance, but that's only logical, when you don't have that much life-experience or are still young.
This is about the Cascio songs and whether or not Jason Malachi could've written them. Therefore I compare the lyrics to the lyrics Jason has written. That's all. And since I'm not a fan of the lyrics in the Cascio songs, it's inevitable that I critize some of his lyrics if I see similarities. I can also say positive things on Jason Malachi's songs/music, because there are, but that's not what this discussion is about.
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I love expressions and I know what they mean and how they can be used. My point is that that sentence (to me) wasn't the right expression, although I must say I'm not too familiar with English sayings/expressions (The Dutch for sure, not certain now of 'you saw the world through the heart of a child'...
There is no right or wrong in poems/song lyrics. In them, you can use language any way you want, they live from using language, words, expressions in unusual ways sometimes. Yukon Jack mentioned "symbolism, metaphor, and various other poetic expressions". There are no rules how to use words or expressions in poems or lyrics, there are no rules or limits for creativity. Quite often, words or expressions are used in unusual ways, that's also why it's sometimes pretty hard to understand the meaning of lyrics or poems, they can be quite cryptic, which is also the reason why they mean different things to different people.
The lyrics that you mentioned are not cryptic though, and logic is for math. I remember seeing a thread on here somewhere a while back about "2000 Watts" not making any scientific sense, lol. That's what happens when you are not able to understand metaphors and symbolism - although the person who posted that thread might have been joking, I really don't remember anymore.
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oke:Jesta
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WOOOO!!!!!! BUMPER'S BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ahem, I mean...
WOOOO!!!!!! BUMPER'S BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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You're welcome
Poor, poor you... It's a shame you don't have a song like I Am a Loser to offset it. Do you have any thoughts about the song?
Grent
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Believers often come with "3T are mad, because MJ wouldn't record with them but with the Cascios".
What about: The Cascios were disappointed, cause they weren't considered in MJs will at all despite an almost lifelong friendship.
@Bumper: I wrote a short analysis about Monster as you requested: http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/threads/99883-Michael-The-Great-Album-Debate?p=3448148#post3448148
What about: The Cascios were disappointed, cause they weren't considered in MJs will at all despite an almost lifelong friendship.
@Bumper: I wrote a short analysis about Monster as you requested: http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/threads/99883-Michael-The-Great-Album-Debate?p=3448148#post3448148
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You're welcome
Poor, poor you... It's a shame you don't have a song like I Am a Loser to offset it. Do you have any thoughts about the song?
What do you want me to tell you? Is it really necessary to comment "Burn Tonight" vocals?
You know, there were some people who tried to start a debate over "Hollywood Tonight" as being fake. I simply refused to take part in such a debate, because Hollywood Tonight IS MJ as much as PRIVACY and WHY YOU WANNA TRIP ON ME, or any other Mike's heavily husky song.
When I heard Breaking News, Monster, All I need, Keep your head up, I could understand why some people heard Mike in them. However, the odd vocals are indeed highly questionable on those tracks and I wanted to discuss that.
When I heard "Carry On", I thought it would open people's ears (no offense anyone) and people would finally hear that it is not Mike singing the song. But to my surprise I saw people saying that they immediately recognized Michael in that song. I was really intrigued. I still wanted to discuss it. How? Why? Where?...
When I heard Solider Boy, I still could understand why some people could hear Mike's voice, even though there were some weird intonations and voice at moments sounding as if it was "curved" (melodyned?).
Now that I have heard "Burn Tonight" (no offense anyone again), but I am as much sure that it is NOT Michael Jackson singing it as I am sure that Hollywood Tonight is. Michael is nowhere to be heard on Burn Tonight. So if people tell me that they hear MJ on "Burn Tonight" I certainly won't spend my time nor energy any more. Just like for people who tell me that Michael jackson doesn't sing Hollywood Tonight, I won't debate any more.
After hearing burn Tonight, you don't even need to compare that song to anyone else's to hear that it is not MJ singing. As far as I am concerned, if "Burn Tonight" is sung by MJ, I am a dumb frog.
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Thanks so much Grent! Your information was very enlighting. As I thought, Monster and Let me let go are twins to the point that the part I pointed out is (nearly) plagiarism.
Jesta
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Ah, we missed a long Bumper post! I completely agree, Bumper. No offense to ANYONE here, but to me Burn Tonight is the one that sounds least like Michael and most like Malachi. Even King said that it's the one song that doesn't sound like him! It's weird that they couldn't keep up the level of MJ-esque vocals on this one that they did on the others...
Chamife
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First of all, I love 2000 Watts....:yes:. And no, not because I think it's about music equipment. I'm perfectly capable of recognizing metaphors and symbolism, like the one in Jason's song.
I'm comparing the tracks and notice similarities, which I find annoying and don't like in a track, whether you call it artistic feedom or not. That's the maint point I'm trying to make. The similarities in writing style.
ETA: Oh...I see I missed some new posts...
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@Milka
Artistic freedom is allowed only when the artist masters at least the basics. Without that, it is called dadaism. Now, people have to agree if they consider dadaism as a form of art or not. Personally I don't see dadaism as a form of art, but as a pile of anything. Likewise, if a poet uses some expressions, of course he has the freedom to create and use the expressions anyway s/he wants. But if those expressions do not depict anything particular or is purely used to give impression that it sounds poetic (when it's not), then anyone could be a poet (which is not the case).
Artistic freedom is allowed only when the artist masters at least the basics. Without that, it is called dadaism. Now, people have to agree if they consider dadaism as a form of art or not. Personally I don't see dadaism as a form of art, but as a pile of anything. Likewise, if a poet uses some expressions, of course he has the freedom to create and use the expressions anyway s/he wants. But if those expressions do not depict anything particular or is purely used to give impression that it sounds poetic (when it's not), then anyone could be a poet (which is not the case).
StellaJackson
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Bumper - are you aware that Monster is in the setlist for Cirque?
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I heard it was just a rumor. Now if they present anything with a Cascio song, I can't hold them responsible for that. Monster IS labeled as a MJ song. But I'd certainly be even more furious at the Estate for "recognizing" those songs as Mike's, SONY for purchasing and distributing those songs and the Cascios for selling those songs.
StellaJackson
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It isn't just a rumour. Look at the video of Cirque director Jamie King in the "creation room". It's right there.
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It's unfortunate. Really. The Cascios gained big money with a perfect crime. I suppose they can sleep at night thinking that Mike owed them that million-dollars favor.