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Michael - The Great Album Debate

Pentum;3542484 said:
Yes, and don't forget the newly discovered one where he lists a lot of new songs along with older ones he wished to work one. Written in 09. No Cascio songs.

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...-am-I-late-on-this/page4?p=3535456&viewfull=1


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This is a very interesting piece of evidence, but all it shows is that MJ didn't include any of the Cascio titles on that particular list. None of the Will.I.Am songs are on there either and neither is, say, "Slave to the Rhythm". For all we know, there might be another piece of paper in that house with all 12 Cascio titles written on it.

Besides, there’s a point that I’ve made very early on, which is that MJ may have recorded those Cascio tracks as a favour to the Cascio family, which were basically housing and feeding him and his family was he was sort of “homeless” in 2007. Maybe he wasn’t himself particularly keen on actually having those songs on one of his album, seeing as how he usually worked with big-name producers.
 
Someone should PM me the untagged version Burn2nite, please.
 
Pentum;3542873 said:
Really?

[youtube]znMwk3T9YQY[/youtube]

I mean, really?
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Wow, proof MJ sat and listened to tracks with Will.I.Am. I’m talking about proof anything ever came out of those sessions.

Of course I know those sessions took place, and the songs do exist. But with the Cascios, the songs are actually out, and formally registered with the Copyright Office and music publishers. Doesn’t get much more official than that.

So my point is that if you’re going to assume the Cascio tracks are fake because they’re not on some handwritten list, you might as well assume the same about Will.I.Am’s tracks, because we know NOTHING about those, aside from the fact MJ sat and listened to some tracks with him.
 
kreen;3543059 said:
Wow, proof MJ sat and listened to tracks with Will.I.Am. I’m talking about proof anything ever came out of those sessions.

Of course I know those sessions took place, and the songs do exist. But with the Cascios, the songs are actually out, and formally registered with the Copyright Office and music publishers. Doesn’t get much more official than that.

So my point is that if you’re going to assume the Cascio tracks are fake because they’re not on some handwritten list, you might as well assume the same about Will.I.Am’s tracks, because we know NOTHING about those, aside from the fact MJ sat and listened to some tracks with him.
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Uff... No one is assuming the Cascio songs are fake JUST BECAUSE they are not on some handwritten list. It's just one of the many things lacking.

Geez, if I was a believer, I would never the songs like this. It's ridiculous. I would've questioned why the fuck we don't have a single piece of evidence that the songs are Michael (without the fact that they sound Michael of course, since I would be a believer).
 
Pentum said:
Uff... No one is assuming the Cascio songs are fake JUST BECAUSE they are not on some handwritten list. It's just one of the many things lacking.

Geez, if I was a believer, I would never the songs like this. It's ridiculous. I would've questioned why the fuck we don't have a single piece of evidence that the songs are Michael (without the fact that they sound Michael of course, since I would be a believer).
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http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pw...r_NIspYeCjL7q2KQCNhA&SEQ=20111122162146&SID=1

I sure wonder what's in that file...
 
I just noticed James Porte registered "Soldier Boy" in 2005 : interesting.
 
Calisto said:
Don't get your hopes up.

It's probably the photograph of Eddie Cascio's empty basement, which Eddie later showed on Oprah, and which to this day appears to be his only piece of "evidence."

Really, if it was anything else of importance, don't you think we would have seen it by now?
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Exactly, it's THAT simple. IF there were any proff at all, we would've seen it. The best thing they could offer was stories and video of Eddie's studio and shower. That's it.
 
Two quick notes :

1- I'd love to say the hand-written list that appears in the recent Murray documentary finally proves the Cascio songs are fake, but it doesn't. What it does show though is that the Cascio songs weren't a part of MJ's plans when he wrote that list. Why? Maybe he didn't think they were good enough, or didn't take them seriously. Maybe he wanted to focus on his own material. Maybe he figured Eddie would have to be present for those songs to be completed, and knew he wouldn't be in London. We don't even know if MJ jotted down those titles from memory, or working from a list.

2- The inclusion of the complete "Monster" credits in the Immortal liner notes shows that the Estate has decided not to desavow theses songs. So either they think they are authentic, and we should trust them, because no one has access to better evidence -- or are more aware of the lack thereof -- than they are. Or they think they're fake, but have decided to still use them as part of new projects. Which would be crazy, legally speaking especially.
 
kreen said:
Two quick notes :

1- I'd love to say the hand-written list that appears in the recent Murray documentary finally proves the Cascio songs are fake, but it doesn't. What it does show though is that the Cascio songs weren't a part of MJ's plans when he wrote that list. Why? Maybe he didn't think they were good enough, or didn't take them seriously. Maybe he wanted to focus on his own material. Maybe he figured Eddie would have to be present for those songs to be completed, and knew he wouldn't be in London. We don't even know if MJ jotted down those titles from memory, or working from a list.

... Or MJ just never knew about them.

2- The inclusion of the complete "Monster" credits in the Immortal liner notes shows that the Estate has decided not to desavow theses songs. So either they think they are authentic, and we should trust them, because no one has access to better evidence -- or are more aware of the lack thereof -- than they are. Or they think they're fake, but have decided to still use them as part of new projects. Which would be crazy, legally speaking especially.

... Or they just had to credit Eddie and Porte because they used that small Monster snippet in the remix. They can't use that mix without crediting them.
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Notes.
 
Pentum said:
Or they just had to credit Eddie and Porte because they used that small Monster snippet in the remix. They can't use that mix without crediting them.
.
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Yeah, but they didn't have to use any snippet from Monster on the CD, or in the show. So why did they? They believe the songs are authentic, and they should know : they can just pick up the phone and talk to Eddie Cascio. Whatever Eddie has done, he's convinced the Estate.
 
barok232 said:
It's pretty clear Kevin Antunes wanted 50 Cent's rap in there. Simple

But to stretch it a bit (like you did), maybe they wanted to give 50 Cent's rap a chance to be heard in a new Cascio-free mix, without any controversy surrounding it, because they actually KNOW "Monster" is a fake. In the meantime they tried to respect us fans by not adding any fake vocals in there. Don't you think they would have used some more of this "brilliant" song (as you believers think of it) in there since they "know" it's authentic? Huh?
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Apparently they wanted to use the whole thing, but took it out at the last minute. So it means that as far as they (the Estate) are concerned, the song is perfectly authentic. And since you get royalties as long as one part -- any part -- of your song is used, Cascio and Porte will still be getting royalties from this new Immortal CD. And they'll also be paid for the use of "Monster" in the actual show.

I guess there's still time for you to get a refund for Immortal.
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
How does it proof that they are not ?

Update: How can YOU prove they are not ?
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Let's see...

* Lack of paper trail to show that he even knew about the songs.
** Examples of songs with a clear trail of work:
***"Hollywood": notes with his instructions that the producer was proud to flaunt.
***"All In Your Name": footage of Michael singing and talking about the song.
***"Who Is It": Michael beatboxing live.
***"Best of Joy": Fans outside hotel where Michael recorded it confirmed it was the same song, and there are handwritten lyrics.

Proof that Michael knew of the Cascio tracks:
*...? He stayed at Angelikson studio?
* ALLEGED note that they didn't want to show.
* A look at a vacant studio.

Proof that they're embellishing the recordings:
*Multiple use of words from previous recordings, alternating between "new" and previous vocals.

Proof that Michael didn't record the songs:
*Lack of his recording habits: snapping his fingers, stomping on the ground etc.
*The FAR weaker voice than the one we all love.
*Reluctance to release proof he did record them when Neff-U and Barry Gibb were quick to release evidence of work.
*Complete disappearance of Eddie and Malachi since this began. Why did those two disappear?

Did I miss anything?
 
Puzzle this: What if a Video evidence of Michael Jackson shows up singing any one of the Cascio Tracks. No imposter, no tricks. Michael singing the Cascio tracks. What would we say?
 
Pentum said:
He asked first, now answer.

They didn't have to, correct. Why they did it, I have no idea.
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Question 1: Er... So? What does this prove? They were registered? We already know that, so how is it proof to show that they're authentic?

Answer 1: Yes legally by it being registered under BMI it proves that Michael Jackson is the vocalist and writer.


Question 2: eah, but they didn't have to use any snippet from Monster on the CD, or in the show.

Answer 2: Why would they not ? It's a Michael Jackson show and the song is Michael Jackson's
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
Question 1: Er... So? What does this prove? They were registered? We already know that, so how is it proof to show that they're authentic?

Answer 1: Yes legally by it being registered under BMI it proves that Michael Jackson is the vocalist and writer.


Question 2: eah, but they didn't have to use any snippet from Monster on the CD, or in the show.

Answer 2: Why would they not ? It's a Michael Jackson show and the song is Michael Jackson's
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Exactly how does it prove Michael is the vocalist? All it shows is that Eddie/Porte registered the song as an Mj track, which they are obviously going to do in order to protect their work. It's called fraud.

And Soldier Boy was originally written and recorded by James Porte in 2005. It had nothing to do with Michael.
 
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