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Michael - The Great Album Debate

Jesta said:
Let's see...

* Lack of paper trail to show that he even knew about the songs.
** Examples of songs with a clear trail of work:
***"Hollywood": notes with his instructions that the producer was proud to flaunt.
***"All In Your Name": footage of Michael singing and talking about the song.
***"Who Is It": Michael beatboxing live.
***"Best of Joy": Fans outside hotel where Michael recorded it confirmed it was the same song, and there are handwritten lyrics.

Proof that Michael knew of the Cascio tracks:
*...? He stayed at Angelikson studio?
* ALLEGED note that they didn't want to show.
* A look at a vacant studio.

Proof that they're embellishing the recordings:
*Multiple use of words from previous recordings, alternating between "new" and previous vocals.

Proof that Michael didn't record the songs:
*Lack of his recording habits: snapping his fingers, stomping on the ground etc.
*The FAR weaker voice than the one we all love.
*Reluctance to release proof he did record them when Neff-U and Barry Gibb were quick to release evidence of work.
*Complete disappearance of Eddie and Malachi since this began. Why did those two disappear?

Did I miss anything?
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#1 So because MJ sang other songs when they released, it discredits these 12 that were not even recorded in a full studio ?

#2 So because they used some parts from other songs to fill in maybe because of missing vocals that makes it a "Fake" song ? Akon went back to the studio and added more vocals to Hold My Hand I guess that is a fake song too.

#3 People change and the recording setting that was reveled on Oprah a shower and not the best recording equipment and also if I'm right Cascio said MJ was sitting down while recording I don't think he was going to be kicking around in a shower while recording a song.

#4 Why they disappeared ? LOL They are in their houses they are not celebrities like artists, or movie stars.


He was 48/49 when these songs were recorded MJ might have made these songs to please the Cascio's for their love and support and because Eddie always wanted to produce a MJ song maybe they were never intended for an album release.

Also if you read Moonwalk Michael's autobiography he says he hates being filmed while in the studio that he records in a room with all the lights off so why are you all expecting to see videos, photos and stuff ?
 
There are loads of pics and videos of Michael in the studio over the years. And once again, the quality of the studio does not change a person's voice so they sound like someone else: if that were the case then WBSS 2008 would sound like these songs too. In fact, thanks to some good research, we know that these songs were recorded on excellent equipment in a high quality studio.
 
StellaJackson said:
Exactly how does it prove Michael is the vocalist? All it shows is that Eddie/Porte registered the song as an Mj track, which they are obviously going to do in order to protect their work. It's called fraud.

And Soldier Boy was originally written and recorded by James Porte in 2005. It had nothing to do with Michael.
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Do you seriously think Sony, Epic Records, MJJ Productions, Michael Jackson estate, Eddie Cascio, Curtis (50 Cent) Jackson, Teddy Riley, James Porte, John Branca, John McClain, and all the musicians on those songs would risk their reputations and risk being known for fraud ?

Update: Almost forgot Cirque Du Soleil
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
Do you seriously think Sony, Epic Records, MJJ Productions, Michael Jackson estate, Eddie Cascio, Curtis (50 Cent) Jackson, Teddy Riley, James Porte, John Branca, John McClain, and all the musicians on those songs would risk their reputations and risk being known for fraud ?

Update: Almost forgot Cirque Du Soleil
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The only people on that list who were involved are Eddie Cascio and James Porte. None of those other parties were in any way involved in the creation of the songs. John McClain actually fought to keep these songs off the album.
 
The point is, those songs had studio footage, notes leading back to what he wanted out of the songs. Where are they for the Cascio tracks? Not even a picture of MJ in the studio, just an empty one. The registration - like Stella said - only proves that they were registered as MJ tracks, it does not prove sonically that they are legitimate.

Now when they literally do "MJ", "Cascio", "MJ", "Cascio" in their songs, that raises alarms. In a world where we cherish songs as Michael wanted them, these are abominations; Frankenstein songs that are in no way legitimate, even if they are him! It's essentially Take Me Away.

Yet Malachi is always quick to brag over how great he sounds and how much he sounds like MJ. Now this controversy pops up and he's nowhere to be seen, and Eddie isn't picking up the pieces of his actions... Huh.

StellaJackson said:
There are loads of pics and videos of Michael in the studio over the years. And once again, the quality of the studio does not change a person's voice so they sound like someone else: if that were the case then WBSS 2008 would sound like these songs too. In fact, thanks to some good research, we know that these songs were recorded on excellent equipment in a high quality studio.
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Good point! These songs were recorded in a professional setting, with MANY different takes used, along with different microphones. Doesn't sound like casual recording in a low quality studio, eh?
 
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ADKIc3mAnX said:
#1 So because MJ sang other songs when they released, it discredits these 12 that were not even recorded in a full studio ?

#2 So because they used some parts from other songs to fill in maybe because of missing vocals that makes it a "Fake" song ? Akon went back to the studio and added more vocals to Hold My Hand I guess that is a fake song too.

#3 People change and the recording setting that was reveled on Oprah a shower and not the best recording equipment and also if I'm right Cascio said MJ was sitting down while recording I don't think he was going to be kicking around in a shower while recording a song.

#4 Why they disappeared ? LOL They are in their houses they are not celebrities like artists, or movie stars.


He was 48/49 when these songs were recorded MJ might have made these songs to please the Cascio's for their love and support and because Eddie always wanted to produce a MJ song maybe they were never intended for an album release.

Also if you read Moonwalk Michael's autobiography he says he hates being filmed while in the studio that he records in a room with all the lights off so why are you all expecting to see videos, photos and stuff ?
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Michael Jackson is Michael Jackson, the music monolith, he does not and will not have any interest in recording final vocals in a shower with poor equipment sitting down, i dunno what singer you're talking about. If he wanted to record demo vocals that would be a differen't story, he'd usually do that on a tape recorder and would almost never sing fully out, would often randomly talk about grooves etc and mumble, yet here in these songs there are vocals filled in you say, yet no lines in any of these songs to me could be Michael Jackson and the ones that sound like there is a small chance they could be are like 5% of the songs, realistically there is no way he'd bother recording anything unless he was singing 70/80% of that song which he clearly isn't, because it was more a groove a melody he'd like to record as reference point in which case it would be hummed. As precious as his voice is, if he wanted his friend to get to produce a song for him, i think he'd at least sing semi full out, 1 vocal take would be worth so many years of support you would think, but aparantly not. And he may say he didn't like to be filmed, yet funily enough there is footage of him in the studio from so many recording sessions, all beit small clips released, but they will be an edit of a lot more footage. And what kind of logic is point 2, Akon added more vocals of his own, he didn't add more vocals of someone doing an MJ impression to try and con the public that MJ sang those lines, a rediculous statement to make.
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
Do you seriously think Sony, Epic Records, MJJ Productions, Michael Jackson estate, Eddie Cascio, Curtis (50 Cent) Jackson, Teddy Riley, James Porte, John Branca, John McClain, and all the musicians on those songs would risk their reputations and risk being known for fraud ?

Update: Almost forgot Cirque Du Soleil
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Yes, because add that all up, thats a good proportion of the music industry, there really isn't anyone to stop them.
 
Well if you guys think it's not I guess I can't do anything about it but me I love the Cascio songs and I trust the people that were actually there with MJ when they were recorded and the people that worked with MJ for many years.
 
kreen said:
[...] I'd love to say the hand-written list that appears in the recent Murray documentary finally proves the Cascio songs are fake, but it doesn't. What it does show though is that the Cascio songs weren't a part of MJ's plans when he wrote that list. Why? Maybe he didn't think they were good enough, or didn't take them seriously. Maybe he wanted to focus on his own material. Maybe he figured Eddie would have to be present for those songs to be completed, and knew he wouldn't be in London. We don't even know if MJ jotted down those titles from memory, or working from a list.
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Some of what you wrote doesn't line up with what Eddie Cascio has said publicly.

According to Eddie...
- Michael arrived at the New Jersey home "ready to work"
- Michael spent "long hours" working in the basement bedroom and bathroom recording
- Michael "made it clear" that he wanted the songs brought to a London studio, so that he could continue working on them with Eddie
- Michael "absolutely wanted" the songs released

So, yeah, Eddie has painted the picture that Michael was very much committed to the tracks.

kreen said:
[...] but they didn't have to use any snippet from Monster on the CD, or in the show. So why did they? They believe the songs are authentic, and they should know : they can just pick up the phone and talk to Eddie Cascio. Whatever Eddie has done, he's convinced the Estate.
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Don't forget that one of the two executors of the Michael Jackson estate is adamant that the Angelikson tracks are counterfeit, which essentially means that 50% of the estate is against the songs. (Yet another red flag.)

kreen said:
I just noticed James Porte registered "Soldier Boy" in 2005 : interesting.
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Yep, and Michael Jackson isn't mentioned anywhere in the copyright, so...
 
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Calisto said:
Some of what you wrote doesn't line up with what Eddie Cascio has said publicly.


So, yeah, Eddie has painted the picture that Michael was very much committed to the tracks.



Don't forget that one of the two executors of the Michael Jackson estate is adamant that the Angelikson tracks are counterfeit, which essentially means that 50% of the estate is against the songs. (Yet another red flag.)



Yep, and Michael Jackson isn't mentioned anywhere in the copyright, so...
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To answer these 3 points :

Of course Eddie isn't going to promote the album by saying, "Yeah, I think MJ only sang those songs for me because he felt he owed us, seeing as how we were feeding him and housing his family when he was basically broke and homeless after the 2005 trial, and he had been kicked out of Bahrain or wherever it was he was mooching off some Arab prince." Just because MJ laid down some vocals for those songs, for fun, or a a favor for his friend Eddie, doesn't mean he was actually planning on releasing those songs, especially now that his star was on the rise again after the 2009 deal for This is it.

Regarding John McClain not wanting the songs to be on the album, that was true for a while at first, and Frank Cascio makes it clear in his book there is no love lost between the Cascios and McCLain. But he did eventually agree that the songs be released, and now, he's actually including Monster AGAIN on another release. McClain has obviously moved on and accepted the songs as authentic now; otherwise, you wouldn't see Monster on the Immortal CD, or in the show. McClain thinks the songs are authentic; why can't you?

As for Soldier Boy, the 2005 registration squares perfectly with what Roger Friedman has said all along : the songs were written by Porte and Cascio for James' own singing career, which never took off; they were then sung in 2007 by MJ, who may have changed some of the lyrics, and thus gotten a songwriter's credit. But they were originally meant for James Porte, AKA Bobby Ewing : Friedman has even heard some of those tracks in their original incarnation.
 
Guys, thoughts about Monster being included on the Immortal CD? Albeit it's only about 10 seconds - with 50's rap about the 'King is Dead, the King has Risen' and that 'HA' that 'Michael' does. I know some of you are boycotting but I'm still putting my full support behind the project. I don't' believe Monster, Breaking News or KYHU are Michael, but for me the Immortal record is still very well thought through and is very special.
 
@ADKIc3mAnX soooooooooo . . . have you heard the leaks from every cascio track? cuz if so, and you STILL think it's michael . . . cool. enjoy.
 
Gonetoosoon said:
Guys, thoughts about Monster being included on the Immortal CD? Albeit it's only about 10 seconds - with 50's rap about the 'King is Dead, the King has Risen' and that 'HA' that 'Michael' does. I know some of you are boycotting but I'm still putting my full support behind the project. I don't' believe Monster, Breaking News or KYHU are Michael, but for me the Immortal record is still very well thought through and is very special.
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The "Ha" is not included on the album.

Also, do you guys remember the video of the Immortal show programme where it had the songs written across the pages, including Monster? I can now confirm that "Monster" has been removed from the programme.
 
azsummergirl said:
@ADKIc3mAnX soooooooooo . . . have you heard the leaks from every cascio track? cuz if so, and you STILL think it's michael . . . cool. enjoy.
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"Tear me apart. Break my heart. Let me in this wonderland with you."

I don't mean to cause offence, but how anyone could possibly think it is Michael Jackson singing those words is utterly beyond me.
 
That might mean they read our complains about it. MIGHT.

But according to kreen's logic, it would mean that they now do not believe the songs are authentic, lol.
 
Pentum said:
That might mean they read our complains about it. MIGHT.

But according to kreen's logic, it would mean that they now do not believe the songs are authentic, lol.
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So Michael Jackson's estate and the people that were there with him when he recorded believe they are not authentic ?

Update: According to Kreen
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
So Michael Jackson's estate and the people that were there with him when he recorded believe they are not authentic ?

Update: According to Kreen
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The only people who were with him were Eddie Cascio and James Porte. Porte has never spoken publicly and Eddie is a liar. John McClain who, unlike John Branca actually produced songs with Michael and worked in the studio with him, does not believe the songs were real.

@JackieJackson5Jackie Jackson

My friend John McClain (co-executor) and I have insisted for many weeks to have certain tracks removed from Michael's new album.

9 Nov 10via TweetDeck
 
StellaJackson said:
The only people who were with him were Eddie Cascio and James Porte. Porte has never spoken publicly and Eddie is a liar. John McClain who, unlike John Branca actually produced songs with Michael and worked in the studio with him, does not believe the songs were real.
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Just asking why you think that Eddie Cascio is a liar ?
 
Bottom line is : Monster is in the show, and on the album, where it counts. They removed the most blatant uses of "Monster" to spare your feelings and prevent you from freaking out on them again, but if the Estate -- for any reason, and in any way -- feared the Cascio songs were fake, they would never include them in any form on the Immortal CD, and would in fact launch legal procedings.

If the songs are fake, it means basically that the whole MJ Estate is at the mercy, at every passing moment, of anybody involved in the conspiracy -- Cascio, Porte or the impersonator -- blowing the whistle on the whole charade, at which point class-action lawsuits would follow. It is impossible that the Estate are running that risk.

As far as the Estate is concerned, the Cascio songs are authentic, that is now 100 % certain with the release of the Immortal CD.
 
kreen said:
Bottom line is : Monster is in the show, and on the album, where it counts. They removed the most blatant uses of "Monster" to spare your feelings and prevent you from freaking out on them again, but if the Estate -- for any reason, and in any way -- feared the Cascio songs were fake, they would never include them in any form on the Immortal CD, and would in fact launch legal procedings.

If the songs are fake, it means basically that the whole MJ Estate is at the mercy, at every passing moment, of anybody involved in the conspiracy -- Cascio, Porte or the impersonator -- blowing the whistle on the whole charade, at which point class-action lawsuits would follow. It is impossible that the Estate are running that risk.

As far as the Estate is concerned, the Cascio songs are authentic, that is now 100 % certain with the release of the Immortal CD.
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They would not launch legal proceedings. It would be far less expensive and far safer as far as public relations go to keep quiet. It is too late for them to do anything other than carry on as normal now. If it was revealed that Sony and the Estate were duped, then it would be a disaster, possibly bringing down the deal between the two. For either party to expose or admit that now would completely destroy any future release. Cascio or Porte won't ever speak out because they too would be ruined both financially and in a career sense. It's not that different from the 93 conspiratotrs keeping quiet all these years. As it happens, the Estate, like the fans, are split on this issue. I'd rather trust McClain when it comes to the music though as he has more experience in that field.
 
StellaJackson said:
@JackieJackson5Jackie Jackson

My friend John McClain (co-executor) and I have insisted for many weeks to have certain tracks removed from Michael's new album.

9 Nov 10via TweetDeck
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Except, of course, that once again you're reading what you want into words that actually mean something else.

McClain produced tracks for the "Michael" album, and wanted more of his material to be used. He likes the old stuff, with old-fashioned arrangements (like what he did with the This Is It song). So when the Cascio tracks appeared, not only does he not like the Cascios for personal reasons (read Frank's book), but he doesn't personally care for modern, dance, pop tracks like the Cascio stuff. So when those rumors started of the songs being fake, he at first grabbed on to them.

But he now accepts the songs are authentic, as confirmed by the Immortal CD.

You know, in the years before the Internet, all of that behind-the-scenes fighting and second-guessing that you put so much faith into would not even be known by any of us on the outside.
 
kreen said:
Except, of course, that once again you're reading what you want into words that actually mean something else.

McClain produced tracks for the "Michael" album, and wanted more of his material to be used. He likes the old stuff, with old-fashioned arrangements (like what he did with the This Is It song). So when the Cascio tracks appeared, not only does he not like the Cascios for personal reasons (read Frank's book), but he doesn't personally care for modern, dance, pop tracks like the Cascio stuff. So when those rumors started of the songs being fake, he at first grabbed on to them.

But he now accepts the songs are authentic, as confirmed by the Immortal CD.

You know, in the years before the Internet, all of that behind-the-scenes fighting and second-guessing that you put so much faith into would not even be known by any of us on the outside.
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I think a far more simple explanation is that he believed the songs were fraudulent. He already had two songs on the record. What others did he want on there that he had produced? Can you name them? After all, Jason was being investigated by the Estate before Breaking News premiered, which supports the theory that someone within the Estate believed them to be fraudulent. And thankfully we do have the internet, as we have been able to hear all the frauduent tracks, which get less convincing with each one.
 
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