Latest on MJJC

Michael - The Great Album Debate

elapentela said:
Why do you believe there is nothing to show about the recordings. Because you didn't see it and you want it. As I suggested before go to the court and sue Eddie and Porte ( and Jason M. too ) for
the crime and the cause of your emotional distress.
Click to expand...
As soon as I finish my cup of coffee I am immediately going to the court. Wanna come with me to discredit me and support those poor, poor people who caused the rift among the fans?
 
Just a few points :

Regarding Stella's statement that the Estate "grilled" three little kids and asked them whether they knew about the Cascio songs : unless we can get a source for that, and a precise explanation of what was asked of them -- if anything -- and what they said -- if anything, this is just noise.

Regarding Paris' tweets : aside from the fact that she is just a kid, let's also take into account that if the Jacksons had any way at all they could sue the Estate/the Cascios regarding those songs, they would. So whatever little Paris thinks or tweets, apparently the Jackson clan doesn't have a leg to stand on from the legal point of view. Which is what matters : anybody can just tweet opinions.

If we're going to bring the kids into this, the oldest of the three has recently tweeted his love to a number of MJ's friends, INCLUDING the Cascios. It seems to me that if Prince shared his kid sister's opinion, he wouldn't be sending his best wishes to Eddie and cie.

Regarding Frank Dileo : the man has actually said in a very clear statement that the Cascio songs are authentic, and that he was on the phone with MJ while he was working on them, and that MJ told him he was excited about the songs. Of course he might just be another evil, criminal frauster, but then the Estate is pretty stupid for dedicating the recent Bad25 release to him...

If the Cascios told MJ's nephew they had lost all of the session tapes in a computer explosion or something, they were obviously lying to him. The idea that they would bother keeping that guy informed of the actual material they have, when their dislike of him is obvious from HIS dislike of THEM, is pretty silly. And again : anybody can just tweet stuff. If Taryll had a legal leg to stand on, he'd be in the courts right now.

If we're going to use people's tweets and unproven statements as debate fodder here, we then have to ALSO include Roger Friedman's opinion. The man obviously knows someone in the Cascio camp, and said that there are "work tapes" of MJ working in Eddie's studio, and featuring Paris talking to her father. So someone in the Cascio camp at least told him that.
 
kreen said:
Just a few points :

Regarding Stella's statement that the Estate "grilled" three little kids and asked them whether they knew about the Cascio songs : unless we can get a source for that, and a precise explanation of what was asked of them -- if anything -- and what they said -- if anything, this is just noise.

Regarding Paris' tweets : aside from the fact that she is just a kid, let's also take into account that if the Jacksons had any way at all they could sue the Estate/the Cascios regarding those songs, they would. So whatever little Paris thinks or tweets, apparently the Jackson clan doesn't have a leg to stand on from the legal point of view. Which is what matters : anybody can just tweet opinions.

If we're going to bring the kids into this, the oldest of the three has recently tweeted his love to a number of MJ's friends, INCLUDING the Cascios. It seems to me that if Prince shared his kid sister's opinion, he wouldn't be sending his best wishes to Eddie and cie.

Regarding Frank Dileo : the man has actually said in a very clear statement that the Cascio songs are authentic, and that he was on the phone with MJ while he was working on them, and that MJ told him he was excited about the songs. Of course he might just be another evil, criminal frauster, but then the Estate is pretty stupid for dedicating the recent Bad25 release to him...

If the Cascios told MJ's nephew they had lost all of the session tapes in a computer explosion or something, they were obviously lying to him. The idea that they would bother keeping that guy informed of the actual material they have, when their dislike of him is obvious from HIS dislike of THEM, is pretty silly. And again : anybody can just tweet stuff. If Taryll had a legal leg to stand on, he'd be in the courts right now.

If we're going to use people's tweets and unproven statements as debate fodder here, we then have to ALSO include Roger Friedman's opinion. The man obviously knows someone in the Cascio camp, and said that there are "work tapes" of MJ working in Eddie's studio, and featuring Paris talking to her father. So someone in the Cascio camp at least told him that.
Click to expand...

Not addressed to you personally Kreen.


No matter how stubbornly some of the fans defend the Cascio's silence, we're still sitting here with no proof at all, and we won't be saying "amen" to the Estate, nor Eddie, nor Teddy, as long as we don't see those proofs for ourselves.

What is funny is that there is Taryll's version of the facts in the studio and there's Teddy's version of what happened in the studio, and instead of trying to dig out what really happened, you have people giving more credit to Teddy's version than to Taryll's, even though that same Teddy claims that he has good reasons to believe that MJ's still alive. Talkinbg about logic, lol.

p.s. Dileo worked with MJ on BAD, BAD Tour and Moonwalker, it's completely normal to see Dileo on BAD25.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
we won't be saying "amen" to the Estate, nor Eddie, nor Teddy, as long as we don't see those proofs for ourselves.
Click to expand...

Do you even consider that perhaps every party involved has move on from this controversy and that you will perhaps never see those proofs or given any information or explanation? What's then? What about 2 years, 5 years, 10 years from this date?
 
ivy said:
Do you even consider that perhaps every party involved has move on from this controversy and that you will perhaps never see those proofs or given any information or explanation? What's then? What about 2 years, 5 years, 10 years from this date?
Click to expand...

Aaaaaah, what a nice surprise, the Queen of the Cascio songs :D

Oh, they can move on, but I won't ever move on as long as we don't know more.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
As soon as I finish my cup of coffee I am immediately going to the court. Wanna come with me to discredit me and support those poor, poor people who caused the rift among the fans?
Click to expand...

I don't have time for this kind of things. But definitely would follow the class lawsuit against Cascio, Porte and Malachi.
 
I'm thinking about contacting Bruce Swedien.

Maybe he will answer me. If he doesn't, I respect and understand. Big chance others probably did the same, but until this far, I don't know.

First I draw up a letter in Dutch. I must really think about what I ask and how I ask en then translate it into English. Most important is I don't sound as a crazy person and that will be hard (not because I am, lol!)

He comes across as a reasonable person, so I might give it a try.
 
ivy said:
Do you even consider that perhaps every party involved has move on from this controversy and that you will perhaps never see those proofs or given any information or explanation? What's then? What about 2 years, 5 years, 10 years from this date?
Click to expand...

I'm sure that's what the parties involved want us to do, to move on so they can just sweep it under the rug and get away with it.
 
lol..it's funny. Michael didn't want this.. His father forced him into it. Now people covet it. Sacrifice. Organic. Grass roots. From the ground up. And they tell you not to do it, and then you do it, then they want to ride your back, cheat you, take the short cut, leech, take it from you, wish it was them.

Some like the shortcut. But life is two things. Live your life as the truth, or live it as a lie. Tell you one thing, though..sure is a tribute to Michael Jackson and his talent.

i know Michael appreciated who Michael was. It would be nice if Cascio would appreciate whoever Cascio is.
 
144 said:
lol..it's funny. Michael didn't want this.. His father forced him into it. Now people covet it. Sacrifice. Organic. Grass roots. From the ground up. And they tell you not to do it, and then you do it, then they want to ride your back, cheat you, take the short cut, leech, take it from you, wish it was them.

Some like the shortcut. But life is two things. Live your life as the truth, or live it as a lie. Tell you one thing, though..sure is a tribute to Michael Jackson and his talent.

i know Michael appreciated who Michael was. It would be nice if Cascio would appreciate whoever Cascio is.
Click to expand...

Do you think he does not? Why?
 
Oh, just one more thing (I'm doing my Columbo impression here) :

Regarding the info the kids could provide : I would certainly expect at least the oldest of the three -- Prince -- to remember at least whether his father spent time in Eddie's studio while they were in New Jersey. I mean, no matter how secretive or low-key those sessions were, surely the oldest kid would at least remember, from his interactions with his father or anyone else in the Cascio household, that "daddy said he would be downstairs singing songs".

On the other hand, I wouldn't expect them to remember anything about song titles or anything like that : even adult collaborators often forget songs they worked on years before, and I can't imagine why MJ would bore his young children with details about this or that particular song.

On an unrelated subject, does anyone remember this supposed blog entry from Dominic Cascio, whom I assume is not the father in this case but the younger brother? Does this have any chance at all of actually being from him, or is it definitely a fake post?

"Dominic Cascio:

The kids while at my house had homeschooling everyday at my house while Michael worked in the studio! (2 different parts of the house) everything will be revealed shortly! The truth will prevail! The Jackson brothers and 3t are brainwashing everyone because of their own jealousy! Including the kids! Michael distanced himself from his brothers for a reason! They were all greedy, and always looked for trouble and they are doing the same now! Remember that they have no say in the estate, and they are not entitled to any money from the estate… the only ones who benefit from the estate are those 3 beautiful kids! So not buying the album will ultimately hurt them! My brother has 3 songs on the album, and if they were fake they wouldn’t be going out! Remember the Jackson’s ordered a forensic test to test the vocals and they came back positive! (all 3 tests) all the producers who worked with him like Quincy Jones, Bruce Sweden, Teddy Riley all say its him so who is claiming its fake?? ONLY THE JACKSONS! Now if they still have a problem they should take legal action but since they have NO case they are trying to ruin the album to hurt my family, which is doing nothing but hurting the kids! So like i said look at the big picture! Don’t be manipulated! Michael always said don’t listen to what you hear about him because people make up lies! My brother has sworn affidavits which means he swore his life these songs! We are not desperate we are trying to make Michael’s latest work be heard! If Michael didn’t like these songs he would never record them to begin with! He didn’t record on friends tracks just for fun!!! this was serious! not fully finished but very serious work! the fans are doing more harm to Michael’s name then good!

Michael’s is singing in the whole song, the other voice is just giving accents that michael could not record yet because he wasnt able to due to his death! You can hear it in the background when he sais the word Jackson.. Michael is saying Jackson but in the back you will heard Jackson said with a different tone and accent, maybe this voice is causing confusion with the fans but just like in butterflies there were other singers credited in the songs just like this guy is! maybe without the voice there wouldnt be confusion of the credibility of the songs but it is too late think what should have been done.. this is the way it is and we are not making false tracks! michael was recorded through out the whole song, these were just extras to give more body! maybe it was the right decision maybe it was wrong but in no way would we try to fool the fans, or anyone! We have always been and will always be LOYAL to michael and the kids!

there will be a statement plus more from my brother one day soon and i hope it will clarify every thing! 3t and the Jackson’s started this smear campaign after John MacLaine songs were taken off the album to put my brothers. (Sony’s decision) by the way John Maclaine was fired years ago and Michael hated him ever since! unfortunately the last will found was one while John was still working with michael.. ( kinda suspicious if that’s the latest will) michael would have never left the estate in his hands knowing the way he felt about him.. so again… LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE!!! you’re accusing the wrong people… You can say that he sounds different, you’re right, different studio, different equipment, different point in time in Michael’s life! don’t be mad about these songs! celebrate them, if you don’t like them I’m sorry but that is a glimpse of what he was still working on… Monster is a song i know he couldn’t wait to develop more! videos and story line! Wait until the album comes out before you judge (the fans)!"
 
It's funny how everyone assumes that Michael's work would "bore" his children. It's pretty well known that they (especially Paris) were his shadow, and it's quite obvious that at the very least Paris was very interested in his work.

Michael sang to his children probably from the womb. He used to make tapes of his voice and get Debbie to put headphones around her stomach while she was pregnant. Yet they can't recognise his voice on 12 crystal clear recordings. Neither can at the very least half of his fan base. Why?
 
allright...Cascio Multitracks exist. im sure of that. if the multitracks didnt exist they would have a very hard time extractinf clear vocals, and removing all instrumentation for the updated versions. ill listen to more cascio, and ill get back to you guys.
 
^ There have been members who have had access to the multi-tracks.
 
But the funniest part is that believers believe it's Michael Jackson on those tracks when clearly it's not :D
 
Billyjeanplxiv said:
allright...Cascio Multitracks exist. im sure of that. if the multitracks didnt exist they would have a very hard time extractinf clear vocals, and removing all instrumentation for the updated versions. ill listen to more cascio, and ill get back to you guys.
Click to expand...
u won't find midas there with cascio. midas is just Michael's friend. from motown, to today. midas is one thing no forensic test can capture.
 
That Dominique Cascio blog looks (first impression) like a fan made-up thing.

And it's pretty pitiful and scary fans do things like this. It means they don't care about the truth, but only their own agenda.

Who are they fooling?
 
OnirMJ said:
Maybe MJJC is controlled by the Estate? I'm really starting to think that. All this excuses.. And why is this thread hidden so that only ones who know where to find it can see it. This thread should be available to everyone, on the first page of the forum. Cascio talk is forbidden in all other threads but this thread is hidden under "Trials And Tribulations - Michael's Life We All love To Hate" and then in the sub-forum "The Controversy". What's up with that?
Click to expand...
Maybe you havent been here long enough to know why Casico talk is not allowed on the main board. or why This thread is in controversy. Or why even after all the problems that stem from this thread WE still allow it for our memebers to discuss this topic. The members who have discussed this topic in here for years know why. The reason its not allowed on the main board and other htreads is becuase once its brought up it complelty derails the discusions off topic and it goes on and on. The reason it in the controversy forum is becuase it is controversial - probably the most controversial topic we have on the board. Its full of very opiniated people. Your accusations are out of line and considered a direct attack on MJJC as far as Im concerned > so please dont go there. MJJC is privatley owned and the owner is in no way run by the Estate. Your accusations are unfounded. Please reconsider your words. We are here for the fans and we allow their opinions on this topic no matter whats side they stand - but we do not allow public attcks on each other on the staff or the board. If you have a problem take it up with the owner. PM Gaz and let him know you think his board is run by the estate. ( but really dont do that. He doesnt take it very well)
 
MOD Note to everyone posting in this thread

There will be no personal attacks on any member, staff or anyone posting in this thread or calling out anyones fanhood or loyalty to Michael's Legacy over ones opinion on the is topic. That is not allowed on this board so why is it runninging rampant in this thread.

This is not going to be tolerated on MJJC. If you feel there is any other place you can go and have this discuss then its probaly best you go there rather then attack our members our staff and the intergrity of our board. Im sure there are other boards that will welcome you with open arms - You either stop or you leave - its that simple - to me anyway. I feel if this is the way you are going to react to each other in here - Then this thread needs shut down.

Please abide by the rules and stop the personal attacks and insults .. Stop making it personal. If you are to emotional over the topic and cant contain yourself thens it's probably probaly best to take a break and stop posting in here for awhile.. recheck your motives and what you are actually trying to acheive
 
kreen;3713590 said:
Oh, just one more thing (I'm doing my Columbo impression here) :

Regarding the info the kids could provide : I would certainly expect at least the oldest of the three -- Prince -- to remember at least whether his father spent time in Eddie's studio while they were in New Jersey. I mean, no matter how secretive or low-key those sessions were, surely the oldest kid would at least remember, from his interactions with his father or anyone else in the Cascio household, that "daddy said he would be downstairs singing songs".

On the other hand, I wouldn't expect them to remember anything about song titles or anything like that : even adult collaborators often forget songs they worked on years before, and I can't imagine why MJ would bore his young children with details about this or that particular song.

On an unrelated subject, does anyone remember this supposed blog entry from Dominic Cascio, whom I assume is not the father in this case but the younger brother? Does this have any chance at all of actually being from him, or is it definitely a fake post?

"Dominic Cascio:

The kids while at my house had homeschooling everyday at my house while Michael worked in the studio! (2 different parts of the house) everything will be revealed shortly! The truth will prevail! The Jackson brothers and 3t are brainwashing everyone because of their own jealousy! Including the kids! Michael distanced himself from his brothers for a reason! They were all greedy, and always looked for trouble and they are doing the same now! Remember that they have no say in the estate, and they are not entitled to any money from the estate… the only ones who benefit from the estate are those 3 beautiful kids! So not buying the album will ultimately hurt them! My brother has 3 songs on the album, and if they were fake they wouldn’t be going out! Remember the Jackson’s ordered a forensic test to test the vocals and they came back positive! (all 3 tests) all the producers who worked with him like Quincy Jones, Bruce Sweden, Teddy Riley all say its him so who is claiming its fake?? ONLY THE JACKSONS! Now if they still have a problem they should take legal action but since they have NO case they are trying to ruin the album to hurt my family, which is doing nothing but hurting the kids! So like i said look at the big picture! Don’t be manipulated! Michael always said don’t listen to what you hear about him because people make up lies! My brother has sworn affidavits which means he swore his life these songs! We are not desperate we are trying to make Michael’s latest work be heard! If Michael didn’t like these songs he would never record them to begin with! He didn’t record on friends tracks just for fun!!! this was serious! not fully finished but very serious work! the fans are doing more harm to Michael’s name then good!

Michael’s is singing in the whole song, the other voice is just giving accents that michael could not record yet because he wasnt able to due to his death! You can hear it in the background when he sais the word Jackson.. Michael is saying Jackson but in the back you will heard Jackson said with a different tone and accent, maybe this voice is causing confusion with the fans but just like in butterflies there were other singers credited in the songs just like this guy is! maybe without the voice there wouldnt be confusion of the credibility of the songs but it is too late think what should have been done.. this is the way it is and we are not making false tracks! michael was recorded through out the whole song, these were just extras to give more body! maybe it was the right decision maybe it was wrong but in no way would we try to fool the fans, or anyone! We have always been and will always be LOYAL to michael and the kids!

there will be a statement plus more from my brother one day soon and i hope it will clarify every thing! 3t and the Jackson’s started this smear campaign after John MacLaine songs were taken off the album to put my brothers. (Sony’s decision) by the way John Maclaine was fired years ago and Michael hated him ever since! unfortunately the last will found was one while John was still working with michael.. ( kinda suspicious if that’s the latest will) michael would have never left the estate in his hands knowing the way he felt about him.. so again… LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE!!! you’re accusing the wrong people… You can say that he sounds different, you’re right, different studio, different equipment, different point in time in Michael’s life! don’t be mad about these songs! celebrate them, if you don’t like them I’m sorry but that is a glimpse of what he was still working on… Monster is a song i know he couldn’t wait to develop more! videos and story line! Wait until the album comes out before you judge (the fans)!"
Click to expand...

albums are always at the mercy of consumers. they do what they want with their own money. we don't know what was on Michael's mind..or his vocal state at different times. just because he was nice to people doesn't mean he accepted unsolicited material. that's what some people do. they wait till somebody is successful, then take advantage of them, rather than start out on their own, with their own career path.
look. if Michael worked with musicians, we saw it. and even those musicians are responsible for their own success or not success. the guitarist Orianthi, played in rehearsal with Michael. we all saw it. then she struck out on her own. but her music is way different..and her success or whether or not it continues, is on her..not Michael. Same with Sheryl Crow..Jennifer Batten, and anybody else.

but it's not fair to assume, that just because somebody is said to spend time with Michael, doesn't mean I should be forced to listen to their sound, and determine that Michael had something to do with it. that puts too much pressure on them, and too many assumptions, that can be wrongly founded.

cascio needs to step away from Michael, and form his own identity, and stand or fall on his own identity.

all i know from MIchael working with others is clearly stated. We saw him perform it..people like Garrett, Bottrell, Foster, others like that. and even then, they didn't try to pretend to be Michael.
 
Billyjeanplxiv said:
allright...Cascio Multitracks exist. im sure of that. if the multitracks didnt exist they would have a very hard time extractinf clear vocals, and removing all instrumentation for the updated versions. ill listen to more cascio, and ill get back to you guys.
Click to expand...
Of course they exists. I've seen screenshots.

Here is even Teddy showing us some: http://youtu.be/f9z3fduz2Nc?hd=1&t=3m55s
 
itis.gif


THE BLIND MEN AND THE ELEPHANT

It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.

The First approach'd the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
"God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!"

The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, -"Ho! what have we here
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me 'tis mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!"

The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up and spake:
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a snake!"

The Fourth reached out his eager hand,
And felt about the knee.
"What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain," quoth he,
"'Tis clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!"

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a fan!"

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Then, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a rope!"

*So these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!

MORAL.
So oft in theologic wars,
The disputants, I ween,
Rail on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean,
And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen!
 
We may not be any closer to the truth, but at least we have the fact that Branca personally assured the fans that the remaining tracks won't be released. If anything, that's progress and a small victory.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top