Jordan Chandler Discussion Thread

[la_cienega]

^ The kids from New Edition had the same experience with MJ in the 80s, they visited Encino and complained that all MJ wanted to do was teach them how to dance and watch nice movies, and all they wanted to do was drink alcohol, smoke pot and watch Debbie Does Dallas. They were about 14-16 at the time.

There's also the real "rules" for the Rubbahead club that they found - some of the rules were no swearing, no bad movies, no drinking, no drugs, etc

With the 1993 story they were working with what the public knew, if they believed MJ had any porn or drank they would've tried to incorporate it in some way. I bet Evan was jealous with the Arvizo allegations - porn, alcohol, needing to masturbate or else he'd rape women, it's the kind of stuff Evan wishes he could've used in his screenplay. I mean, lawsuit.

 

[Bonnie Blue]

With the 1993 story they were working with what the public knew, if they believed MJ had any porn or drank they would've tried to incorporate it in some way.

I'm thankful that evan didn't incorporate any ritual voodoo sacrifices -if only he had known about those cows back in 93...

That's interesting about those 'rules' of the rubba club, never read those before, where did they come from?

 

[la_cienega]

I'm thankful that evan didn't incorporate any ritual voodoo sacrifices -if only he had known about those cows back in 93...

That's interesting about those 'rules' of the rubba club, never read those before, where did they come from?

I was looking at it the other day, it was typed up, but here's what they were:

"1. All members of the Rubberhead Club must be idiots and act crazy at all times.

2. All members must have the brain power of a two year old.

3. All members must read and know the story Peter Pan fluently.

4. All members must carry their cards and badges with them wherever they go.

5. All members must speak highly of and never curse out our club.

6. All members must watch at least 2 episodes of the Three Stooges every day.

7. All members of the Rubberhead Club must not smoke, drink, use foul language, or use drugs under any circumstance.

8. All members must be vegetarians and fast on every Sunday for good health.

9. When a member is confronted by another member of the Rubberhead Club, he is to give a peace sign and then half of it.

10. All members of the rubberhead club must pay dues to the President whenever possible and however much they desire so that it can be given to sick children and underprivileged fatheads.

11. Every member of the Rubberhead Club must take flying lessons at the Peter Pan school of flying.

12. All members must attend all meetings that the Club has scheduled.

13. All members must be in bed by three o'clock in the morning. (unless the stooges are on late)

14. Every member must read, study and follow these rules."

I'm guessing he wrote it up with some of the kids who stayed there, maybe his nieces and nephews.


Remember, the Rubbaheads were what MJ called kids because he rubbed and molested them. So it's odd he has a list written out where they're to not drink, do drugs, and are to do charity. This according to Anderson's book and to Sullivan's book where he uses the best sources for this:

“To Michael they were all “Rubba”. Why Rubba? From “rubbing boy against his body”, Francia surmised. “He had boys sitting in his lap, rubbing them.” Quindoy reached the same conclusion: “He called them Rubba because he was always rubbing up against them.”

We'll ignore what Brooke Shields says here:

Brooke Shield Introducted to Man In The Mirror: Michael Jackson by Ron Galella, released 2010

In February 1984, Michael called me about a week before the Grammys to ask me if I’d go with him. Although it wasn’t much time, a week was actually longer than he’d usually give me to get ready for one of our outings. He told me he really wanted me to be with him, and that Emmanuel Lewis would probably also be with us. That was also not unusual because the three of us often did things as a team: the odd-but to us perfectly normal-version of the Three Musketeers. We were all quite famous and had been working basically our entire lives. Emmanuel was much younger and we called him ‘Rubba” because he had this adorable face with chubby cheeks, and he could make funny faces and move like he was made of rubber. We would all laugh so much our sides would hurt. I think Michael and I simply appreciated the freedom we felt when we were together. We could laugh, act silly, and not have to be the professional adults we were normally expected to be.

Brooke is obviously clearly a pedophile too. I mean, I've heard people say Michael was weird in how he carried Emanuelle around as a kid and Brooke loved carrying Emanuelle around, so obviously must also be complicit in this too:

 

[Petrarose]

^^^Person who imagined all that la_cienga mentions above, must be very sick person:bugeyed

Right, and the details are creeping me out. These authors themselves need to be examined, because they seek these filthy stories out. I am sure no one simply came up to them and divulged all this sick nonsense without prompting.

 

[8701girl]

Yes, i remember at the memorial some us commentator noting that although paris looked devastated, the boys looked less so - it was v clear what he was insinuating.

The stories that others who don't have an axe to grind tell of how 'age appropriate' mj was with children are so so different to the stories gavin and star tell. Even jordan never came up with all that porn and alcohol ish. Didn't evan say he was super disturbed at mj's choice of presents for jordan in that they were too young and childish for a boy of jordan's age ie mj wasn't going round buying the boy subscriptions to hustler. There is the cute story of mj in the palm springs hotel in miami(?) going round his penthouse suite covering up all the nude art on the walls so his children didn't see. And the story from mark ronson, when he stayed at neverland in the late 80s with sean lennon as young boys and mj all aghast at them watching some adult tv channel and running over to turn it over.

Prince , paris & blanket have had different ways of dealing with michaels death im sure. With prince & blanket they both are a lil more shy and paris is more the outgoing girl who isnt afriad to say whats on her mind - just take a look at her twitter and that will show. But for these people insinuating that prince & blanket were molested by michael just cause of how they were at the memorial is just disgusting, ridiculous & insensetive. They just lost their father what did they expext for them to be? happy? my god the media are bunch of delusional airheads with no heart or soul

 

[bluetopez]

The media sure likes to live off these sick made-up stories about MJ and kids. Then try to make it out like MJs the pervert. When it's clearly many of them who wishes these stories were true, so they can make money off of it. I just wish the general public would realize this for once and wake the hell up! Instead of just brush it off with the "Will never know" B.S. -_-

 

[AliCat]

Evan Chandler

Evan is not a nice father, if you remember back in 2005, when Jordy Chandler got a restraining order against his father. One of the things that Evan did to Jordy, besides choking him and hitting him with weights, was to spray mace, similar to tear gas. Why on earth would a role model, your biological parent, whom you are to honor with dignity and respect, spray their child with such malice and discontent, that Jordy had to issue a restraining order against his own Dad.

I'd say the pattern had never changed between Evan and Jordy Chandler, no natural bonding, which is why Michael tried to help Jordy by setting a good example, but to no avail. Yet, Michael's children prove who the better parent is and it isn't Evan. It's Michael Jackson!

 

[HIStory]

^^ Evan also did not care about his other children by his second wife. After the allegation he left them and never cared about them. Those two kids were raised by another man, the new husband of Evan's second wife after they divorced. Evan showed more interest in Jordan, but only because he was the kid with the money.

If you read the transcript of the Schwartz-Evan phone convo it's clear that Evan was jealous of Michael - that Jordan started to look up to him instead of Evan. And that's one of the reasons he got Jordan to accuse Michael (the other reason is of course money).

 

[Justthefacts]

Telling comment Jordan made to his physicist. Doctor asked how many nights did Michael stay in your room? Jordan said I don't know but my Mother would know. Que?

 

[Bonnie Blue]

To Michael they were all “Rubba”. Why Rubba? From “rubbing boy against his body”, Francia surmised. “He had boys sitting in his lap, rubbing them.” Quindoy reached the same conclusion: “He called them Rubba because he was always rubbing up against them.

Clearly sullivan didn't know mj called frank dileo 'rubba' as well. Wouldn't fancy the chances of any man trying to rub up against frank!

Thanks for those 'rules', lacienega. Hadn't heard of those before. Oddly enough only heard of the rules which said no heifers, no wenches etc which ddimond seized on.

 

[HIStory]

Were it the Chandlers who first came up with that "no heifers" crap?

In ATG, Ray says: "Apparently Michael liked the word "heifer." "No wenches, bitches, heifers or hos," was sometinng of value to wish for in life, he counseled Jordie." Bob Jones liked it so much that he incorporated it into his story as well.

 

[la_cienega]

I guess we've exposed our pedophile network. MJ, Dileo, Brooke Shields. I for one am disgusted no investigation work has been done on the matter.

I don't know where that Jordan list came from because they've never used it in court and never managed to find it or anything like it in the Vaccaro vault or in Sneddon's list of evil things he found in MJ's many houses and offices and hotels he raided. On VMJ I saw they said it came from Victor Gutierriez's book originally but I don't know if that's true?

It's telling only this Rubbahead list was ever found and attempted to be used by anyone.

I've been curious about what they found on the raid. MJ kept absolutely everything, so he would have had many love letters and things in his possession. I wonder how frustrated and angered Sneddon and Zonen were on finding things like that, and realizing they were directed/came from women. He also kept journals, again must've been frustrating that not a single thing from them was used. They used Sandusky's list of boys and the asterixes he'd kept besides the ones he'd abused. Nothing like that in MJ's possession anywhere. Not in his house, condos, hotels, or even in the Vaccaro vault.

One of the legal commentators at the time mentioned that with Sneddon's obvious bias whatever evidence they did find which helped clear MJ or worked against their stories, she believed they would not volunteer this, and this would violate MJ's rights to a fair trial. We know this as factual because of how they handled the children around him - attempting to force them to say they'd been molested, and even when they denied it, still being used as victims against MJ. You can't get info more exonerating than that, but even that was not good enough for the prosecution's team and they completely ignored it. So imagine what else they may have found in their witch hunt?

Not that love letters from women would prove he wasn't a pedophile, but as with the books they found and the pornography and the description of MJ's genitals, they were desperate for anything to use against him to portray him in one way, to the point they would lie about what they had found and exaggerate any info they had, but chose to ignore everything that countered that. Besides letters and journals, I bet they found further evidence which exonerated MJ which was not used. Stuff like letters from kids (kids like Safechuck, Wade, Brett, Mac, hell even Jordan) which were completely innocent and reflected MJ just being a nice simple guy, or MJ talking about how he loved the innocence of kids in journals - just silly simple stuff. They went through all his video footage and MJ recorded so many personal home movies, and I bet it was all just like the Private Home Movies stuff we saw - imagine Sneddon and co. sitting through all of that hoping for one inappropriate moment somewhere, all that footage of MJ with Brett and Mac we saw when they're two of Sneddon's prime victims and nothing untoward is ever seen anywhere, sitting through the Gary Indiana footage getting angry about MJ checking out bouncing tits. I bet they found endless amounts of things like that. The worst part about all of this is that the prosecution has more info than we do on some things, and yet they will never ever volunteer it. The FBI had to expose how Jordan Chandler basically told Ron Zenon to go **** himself in 2004. Diane Dimond and the prosecution were still harping on that he could be a witness all the way throughout the whole trial, when they knew already he would be more prepared to fight them legally, than he would in exposing MJ.

 

[bluetopez]

Huh that Sneedon. I remember that exclusive interview he gave his home girl Dimond on CourtTV calling Neverland "Fairy land." His mindset of how he saw MJs world was obvious.

 

[8701girl]

Im surprised there really hasnt been a bleep from sneddon since 2005 but that is a good thing

 

[Tinkerbell88]

Did anyone watch the Lance Armstrong interview? He was only sorry that he got caught and obviously would never have owned up to it if there wasn't so much evidence that he doped. Said he didn't even feel bad about it at the time.

Reminds me of this situation, I think Jordan is only ever gonna confess if his hand is forced. He obviously has no problem living with this lie. I hope one day he trusts the wrong person and this all comes out. I hope that one day soon, we see him sitting with Oprah admitting that he lied and ruined another man's life.

 

[Snow White luvs Peter Pan]

Millions of us are waiting to happen that Tink but he's a coward and doesn't wanna loose his millions...

 

[HIStory]

Did anyone watch the Lance Armstrong interview? He was only sorry that he got caught and obviously would never have owned up to it if there wasn't so much evidence that he doped. Said he didn't even feel bad about it at the time.

Reminds me of this situation, I think Jordan is only ever gonna confess if his hand is forced. He obviously has no problem living with this lie. I hope one day he trusts the wrong person and this all comes out. I hope that one day soon, we see him sitting with Oprah admitting that he lied and ruined another man's life.

It's interesting you bring up the Armstrong confession because I too connected it in my mind to daydreams of a confession by Jordan. Imagining how it'd go.

Unfortunately, I think maybe a circus like this one with Armstrong could even convince him more to never come foreward. He looks at Armstrong and thinks: "Do I really want this happen to me?" Even though I don't think the same would happen to him. For one, he can blame most of it on his father since he was only a kid. The only criticism he would get maybe is not coming foreward sooner.

I think Jordan coming forward would be a bigger thing since we are talking about criminal accusations agains a man, not "just" cheating in sport, yet the media would play it more low key. And that is because while in Armstrong case it can be all blamed on Armstrong and his helpers, but in the Chandler case the media were an active participant. They would have to practice self-critcism and they don't like that. They like to criticise everyone else, but not themselves. It's not only about Jordan and his father. It's about the media, the law enforcement, the dark side of human nature - ie. how people are willing to tell the most horrendous lies for money etc. But I'm not sure the world (the media and the public) is ready to look into that mirror. So I think it would be played much more low key, even if it's a more important issue. But you know what, I would not care. The main thing is that Michael's name would finally be cleared.

 

[Bonnie Blue]

I guess we've exposed our pedophile network. MJ, Dileo, Brooke Shields. I for one am disgusted no investigation work has been done on the matter.

Personally i'm more disgusted at the state of brooke shield's makeup in that photo. Who did it - was karen freelancing?

I don't know where that Jordan list came from because they've never used it in court and never managed to find it or anything like it in the Vaccaro vault or in Sneddon's list of evil things he found in MJ's many houses and offices and hotels he raided. On VMJ I saw they said it came from Victor Gutierriez's book originally but I don't know if that's true?

How interesting. That list has passed into folklore now, and it all began in vg's book? I think mj was reported to have called madonna a heifer in the early 90s, but i always felt the language of the heifers etc rule and the intention behind it was just so uncharacteristic of mj. He always was friendly to young girls as well as boys, there was no exclusive boys only to his playing at neverland. Kit culkin said that mj played with all his children, the robson/barnes sisters were always included in trips to neverland, mj always seemed to be holding lily chandler when out in public, and that girl who acted in moonwalker had such great, fond memories of her time with mj.

I've been curious about what they found on the raid. MJ kept absolutely everything, so he would have had many love letters and things in his possession. I wonder how frustrated and angered Sneddon and Zonen were on finding things like that, and realizing they were directed/came from women. He also kept journals, again must've been frustrating that not a single thing from them was used. They used Sandusky's list of boys and the asterixes he'd kept besides the ones he'd abused. Nothing like that in MJ's possession anywhere. Not in his house, condos, hotels, or even in the Vaccaro vault.

I loved that story of how a tape labelled 'chicks' was unearthed at neverland, which was apparently a word pedos use to describe children. The da's office sat down to watch in with great anticipation, only to find it was all about little fluffy chicks.

One of the legal commentators at the time mentioned that with Sneddon's obvious bias whatever evidence they did find which helped clear MJ or worked against their stories, she believed they would not volunteer this, and this would violate MJ's rights to a fair trial. We know this as factual because of how they handled the children around him - attempting to force them to say they'd been molested, and even when they denied it, still being used as victims against MJ. You can't get info more exonerating than that, but even that was not good enough for the prosecution's team and they completely ignored it. So imagine what else they may have found in their witch hunt?

So scary when a prosecutor becomes consumed by such zeal that all objectivity is left behind. It does seem to be a charactersitic of child abuse cases, at least in calif.

 

[HIStory]

I think mj was reported to have called madonna a heifer in the early 90s, but i always felt the language of the heifers etc rule and the intention behind it was just so uncharacteristic of mj.

We can thank that story to our old friend, J. Randy Taraborelli. I don't have his book, but I know this from Ray's book in which he says:

In 1989 Michael was livid when Madonna was pronounced Artist of the Decade by media polls. He beheved the title belonged to him. So he had MTV make up a new award for him, The Video Vanguard Artist of the Decade. It was presented to Michael at the 1989 MTV Awards. "That'll teach the heifer," Michael said of Madonna.149

And he references Magic and Madness as the source of that claim:

149 J. Randy Taraborrelli, Michael Jackson: The Magic and the Madness, 446-447

Apparently this was the inspiration for this whole "heifer" stuff. BTW, Ray quotes a lot from JRT's book. I wish fans would wake up regarding this book and would stop considering it as a great biography of Michael. JRT's lies are very popular with haters and have done a lot of harm to Michael.

 

[Petrarose]

^^Great points Respect especially about the role of police/DA/media/Jordan if a confession does come out.

Has anyone ever complied a timeline of the events leading up to the allegations?

 

[AliCat]

June Chandler (birth name June Wong)

Trivia
Semi-retired.

Has an actors workshop.

Mother of daughter and son, Jordie Chandler.


Where Are They Now
(2006) Co-hostess, with Bobby Vinton, of an infomercial for TimeLife's "Lifetime of Romance" music collection.

(2010) Co-hostess, with Pat Boone, of an infomercial for TimeLife's "Golden Age of Pop" music collection.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0151411/bio

 

[la_cienega]

June Chandler (birth name June Wong)

Trivia
Semi-retired.

Has an actors workshop.

Mother of daughter and son, Jordie Chandler.


Where Are They Now
(2006) Co-hostess, with Bobby Vinton, of an infomercial for TimeLife's "Lifetime of Romance" music collection.

(2010) Co-hostess, with Pat Boone, of an infomercial for TimeLife's "Golden Age of Pop" music collection.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0151411/bio

That's actually a different white June Chandler. I guess someone assumed both June's were the same person on IMDB.

 

[Annita]

What do you think of the Paula Kinski-accusations?

Now, 21 years after his death his daughter Paula Klaus Kinski published a book where she talks about the sexual abuse of her father to her. She goes in talk-shows. I tend to say this might be true but I find it still a matter of concern that the media landscape now turns Klaus Kinski to a child molester.
Nothing is questioned, it is only shown to be true, but nobody knows for a fact that the accusations of Paula are true. It may be the act of a 60 year old woman who wants to make money and publicity. The book will be a best seller and she has a lot of attention. And the man who is made a criminal can`t say something to this accusations. Why hasn´t she made the accusations in his livetime, I mean she was a grownup woman with 39 when her father died.

 

[bouee]

What do you think of the Paula Kinski-accusations?

Now, 21 years after his death his daughter Paula Klaus Kinski published a book where she talks about the sexual abuse of her father to her. She goes in talk-shows. I tend to say this might be true but I find it still a matter of concern that the media landscape now turns Klaus Kinski to a child molester.
Nothing is questioned, it is only shown to be true, but nobody knows for a fact that the accusations of Paula are true. It may be the act of a 60 year old woman who wants to make money and publicity. The book will be a best seller and she has a lot of attention. And the man who is made a criminal can`t say something to this accusations. Why hasn´t she made the accusations in his livetime, I mean she was a grownup woman with 39 when her father died.

I heard about her, and I also heard Nastassja Kinski had said while her father was still alive that she wanted nothing to do with him.
That's the problem with this kind of things. If it's true, then making it public might be some sort of therapy for her. Maybe she needed him to be gone to be able to cope with the pain. If she is telling the truth, then it's horribly traumatizing and this kind of reaction wouldn't surprise me. And she has a right to talk and make it public, especially if it can help other victims.

But she could also be exagerating things or lying. We can't know for sure what happened. That's the problem, it can't really be proven anymore, unless there are witnesses. Personally, I wouldn't take sides in her case. There are victims who need to be listened to ad helped, & liars also, it's sometimes hard to tell.

 

[HIStory]

What do you think of the Paula Kinski-accusations?

Now, 21 years after his death his daughter Paula Klaus Kinski published a book where she talks about the sexual abuse of her father to her. She goes in talk-shows. I tend to say this might be true but I find it still a matter of concern that the media landscape now turns Klaus Kinski to a child molester.
Nothing is questioned, it is only shown to be true, but nobody knows for a fact that the accusations of Paula are true. It may be the act of a 60 year old woman who wants to make money and publicity. The book will be a best seller and she has a lot of attention. And the man who is made a criminal can`t say something to this accusations. Why hasn´t she made the accusations in his livetime, I mean she was a grownup woman with 39 when her father died.

I agree with you. These type of things are very horrifying. People can go out there, accuse others of something like that without evidence and the media will just consider it a fact. Child molestation allegations became a whole industry. Psychiatrists specialize in so called "repressed memories" where they "recover" childhood "memories" of sexual abuse in adults. "Memories" of things those actually never happened. There was an interesting report about it in the 90s:

[video=youtube;U663kHunHjM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=U663kHunHjM[/video]

[video=youtube;wA8p1k3UVyk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wA8p1k3UVyk[/video]

I do not want to downplay any real experiece by real child abuse victims. But I'd treat such allegations very carefully. There are at least as many false allegations of sexual child abuse as real ones. It's a very legitimiate question why someone comes up with something like that 21 years on, when the accused cannot answer any more? Why instead of going to court while the accused was alive she decides to write a book? Maybe she has good reasons, I don't know. I'd just take any such claim very carefully, knowing what was done to Michael and his reputation.

 

[analogue]

I can't stand it when someone thinks MJ was innocent (Which is a great thing btw) but still puts the blame on MJ for the false allegations. When these people say things like ''Yeah, he was innocent but he brought it on himself by inviting children to Neverland'' or ''He was weird so how could these people not help but accuse him''

Talk about blaming the victim. I don't care how weird you think someone is. That is no excuse to accuse them of a horrible crime

 

[bouee]

False accusations are and will be a problem for a long time, it can't be easily solved. There was a great scandal here in France, about kids that were raped - they were actually raped, no question about that, and in a most horrible way. But they started accusing a lot of people. Everybody was jailed, convicted, and most of them were later released and acquitted on appeal. For some of the aquitted it's clear they were wrongly accused, for others, it's not so clear, but there was no proof.
This case showed how easy it is to manipulate kids.

2O years after does't really surprise me, I mean why not. Look at the Saville story in the UK. Victims don't always want to talk, they can be ashamed, scared, especially if it means to go public. Repeated abuse, especially on a child, is very very damaging, it can take years to even understand the effect it has on you. You might think you will be able to deal with it, and then something happens in your life that makes you realise you can't.

But it's clear you have to take this kind of accusations very very carefully. That's what the media and everybody should do.

I wouldn't compare with Michael though, because in Michael's case there is enough info to understand what really happened, ie nothing. There were 2 investigations and a trial, everything you need to unnderstand is right there and public.

 

[HIStory]

Talking about false allegations. Sean Penn did a great documentary called "Witch Hunt". It's kind of ironic, though that it was aired by MSNBC who had their share in the witch hunt against Michael...
Anyway, the docu is up on YT, it has 7 parts, this is the first one, you can find the rest.

 

[Snow White luvs Peter Pan]

I watched a documentary while ago on NatGeo about how religious charlatans operate to cheat people and one of the ways was precisely implant false memories of child abuse and they make them believe they have "repressed memories" of those events, the charlatans take advantage of it to "cure them" to make them enter to their cult. It said in that docu it was very easy to do such thing because there are many ones who are susceptible to be manipulated and it seems to be true, we've seen many manipulated kids and adults just like Jordan.

No matter if Jordan was forced and manipulated to acuse Michael, I don't find a logical reason, being a child back then to accept ruining a man's life just for money. Didn't he think he was doing something wrong back then? I thought people when they were kids have no or less malice in them but I guess I was wrong.

How can people be that sick to turn into a lucrative industry such horrendous crime!? It's absolutely disgusting! uke:

 

[Petrarose]

^^Jordan has no excuse for what he did. He was abused by his father & mother based on what they put him through and made him do, & why did no one including Jordan go after them, expose them & bring them to justice? He is an adult now, so he could say what dead daddy did, but I guess like many said, he has no remorse or sense of guilt.

Basically, this kid was coached to commit a crime & someone has to pay for this crime before I die.