[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

Re: [Confirmed ] New child molestation claim by Wade Robson/ Estate Pg16 -#230 /Wades Atty Pg 28 -#

I knew they were going too. ESP his sister
 
Re: [Confirmed ] New child molestation claim by Wade Robson/ Estate Pg16 -#230 /Wades Atty Pg 28 -#

I disagree.. I think his team are/were throwing out dates to see what sticks.

No they're not. It's just crappy celeb website tmz that got the dates wrong, the important dates are in that may 1 filing which is already sent to the estate - they can't be changed.


Annoying, that's before the big breakdown/therapy.
 
Re: [Confirmed ] New child molestation claim by Wade Robson/ Estate Pg16 -#230 /Wades Atty Pg 28 -#

Wade's sister said, on facebook,Wade's lawyer statement was the truth.

So, lets wait for their support... and now saying Wade is right..., maybe they will file something of something against somebody...
 
Re: [Confirmed ] New child molestation claim by Wade Robson/ Estate Pg16 -#230 /Wades Atty Pg 28 -#

^^ :no:

Not only religions poison and rot everything, so does money but it makes the world go around... :sigh:
 
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Re: [Confirmed ] New child molestation claim by Wade Robson/ Estate Pg16 -#230 /Wades Atty Pg 28 -#

It's normal.

Well, it wouldn't be normal for me. But then I'm not one of those people either for whom it's normal to make false allegations about someone.

Sometimes morals do rise above family ties - see Glen Veneracion the nephew of the Quindoys.
 
Re: [Confirmed ] New child molestation claim by Wade Robson/ Estate Pg16 -#230 /Wades Atty Pg 28 -#

We cannot reasonably expect that Mr Robson's family would not support him. As far as they are concerned he kept the truth from them all these years, so they were happy to defend Michael. Not that Mr Robson has had his breakdown and has told them the truth, they will stand by him.

I would expect the Robsons to vigorously defend Wade, the same way the Jacksons would defend Michael *sweet, innocent smile*
 
Re: [Confirmed ] New child molestation claim by Wade Robson/ Estate Pg16 -#230 /Wades Atty Pg 28 -#

So, lets wait for their support... and now saying Wade is right..., maybe they will file something of something against somebody...

Well we know this statement is untrue in it's entirety!

Wade Robson, in addition to being one of the most talented people on the planet, is one of the kindest, most gentle, decent and introspective human beings one will ever meet. He is the loving father of a young son and happily married. Last year, on a career trajectory that was off the charts, he collapsed under the stress and sexual trauma of what had happened to him for seven years as a child.
 
Re: [Confirmed ] New child molestation claim by Wade Robson/ Estate Pg16 -#230 /Wades Atty Pg 28 -#

Video dated December 2012 he brings up MJ in reference to how he got started in dance, doesn't speak about him there though, just shares that's how he got started:

http://youtu.be/RhJNOiZjmtY?t=3m43s
 
Re: [Confirmed ] New child molestation claim by Wade Robson/ Estate Pg16 -#230 /Wades Atty Pg 28 -#

I don't know when this was recorded but it was uploaded in March, 2012. At the time of his alleged breakdown... Dancing to Michael's music...

This is interview seems to be from around the same time. Although the upload date is December 2012, this dance event seems to have taken place in February 2012 (there was no event in Toronto at the end of 2012, only in early 2012).

Michael is not mentioned in detail (brief mention at 3.50).


Edit:
Video dated December 2012 he brings up MJ in reference to how he got started in dance, doesn't speak about him there though, just shares that's how he got started:

http://youtu.be/RhJNOiZjmtY?t=3m43s
Looks like we found the same video, la_cienega! As I said above, though, this event seems to have taken place in February 2012.
 
Re: [Confirmed ] New child molestation claim by Wade Robson/ Estate Pg16 -#230 /Wades Atty Pg 28 -#

Repressed memory is so fecking convenient. Gets him out of so much trouble................
 
Re: [Confirmed ] New child molestation claim by Wade Robson/ Estate Pg16 -#230 /Wades Atty Pg 28 -#

Repressed memory is so fecking convenient. Gets him out of so much trouble................

As would the money that he would get from Michael's Estate...

I wonder if his family knowingly go along with this scheme or they just believe this crap about his sudden enlightenment about past abuse...
 
Re: [Confirmed ] New child molestation claim by Wade Robson/ Estate Pg16 -#230 /Wades Atty Pg 28 -#

I don't know guys. I have a really bad feeling about this one. I don't believe for a minute this happened, to much lapse in time and such but... The idea MJ has been accused before does not bold well for MJ legacy in the future. So many people have been on the fence about prior allegations. I think in death people forgot and gave MJ the benefit of doubt. But how many times can this come up without serious repercussion to his image. We can speculate all we want I believe it makes it worst for all of us. It's time to just sit back and see what happens. Hopefully this to shall pass but how many times can we say that. **** Wade and Murray and AEG. Same goes to the Jackson for that matter. This trail is doing nothing so far to help anything. AEG is fighting for its life even tho MJ lost his. Hang in there all. MJ is watching over us all. I'm going to take a break from here for as long as I can it's to emotional right now and I may say things that offend some people.
 
Re: [Confirmed ] New child molestation claim by Wade Robson/ Estate Pg16 -#230 /Wades Atty Pg 28 -#

Now the question is how credible the repressed memories argument is since we know it's quite easy to implant in the mind false memories of events that didn't even occur to that person?
 
Re: [Confirmed ] New child molestation claim by Wade Robson/ Estate Pg16 -#230 /Wades Atty Pg 28 -#

GUYS DONT FORGET TO DOWNLOAD THE VIDEOS FROM YOUTUBE, because its highly possible they will be blocked, deleted or in private mode.
 
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It´s possible that WR think it´s true, that he remember things from false memories.
How do you know if repressed memories come back that it´s memories of what really happened?
If you have problems with sex it must be because you were molested as a child and not because you are too stressed out...
who knows maybe he got some ideas from the therapist
 
Re: [Confirmed ] New child molestation claim by Wade Robson/ Estate Pg16 -#230 /Wades Atty Pg 28 -#

All I can say is THANKFULLY the media in the UK haven't really paid much attention to this at all YET (!).

In terms of the big media outlets, I haven't seen anything on the BBC News website and only a small article quite low down on the Sky News website. Been at work all day so haven't seen TV news bulletins, but I doubt there's anything much on there at the moment. Also nothing on both the morning and evening free newspapers (Metro and Evening Standard, which Londoners will know about) on the Underground here in London. Those newspapers are read by millions of Londoners everyday to and from work (because they're free!).

I really hope it stays that way and this story just fizzles out until it is hopefully dismissed in court.
 
MIST;3820508 said:
It´s possible that WR think it´s true, that he remember things from false memories.
How do you know if repressed memories come back that it´s memories of what really happened?
If you have problems with sex it must be because you were molested as a child and not because you are too stressed out...
who knows maybe he got some ideas from the therapist

MIST...I was thinking exactly the same thing.

Here's an example I found, from the Institute for Psychological Therapies.


False Memories of Child Sexual Abuse: A Personal Account
Mel Gavigan*
It all began back in November of 1989. I was hospitalized for depression in Long Beach, California when I started getting my first false memories of child sexual abuse.

While hospitalized for the depression, I was asked by several hospital workers if I had ever been touched sexually in my childhood. Although I could not remember anything, I felt pressured to come up with some "answers" for my condition that would be acceptable. I also felt that if I could come up with a single reason for my troubles, I would be able to get well and get out of the hospital sooner.

My psychologist kept asking about my childhood and he seemed insistent that I had been sexually abused as a child. I tried to be very cooperative because I wanted out of that hospital. I didn't understand why my therapist was not interested in hearing about the recent causes of my depression — a painful divorce, sexual harassment on the job, unemployment, stress from a new marriage, and a recent drastic change in lifestyle. I trusted him, however, and if he believed that all of my problems wee due to some traumatic incident in my childhood I apparently had forgotten, I assumed he must be right because he was the psychology expert, not I.

I continued to wrack my brain to try to remember being sexually abused, and I had a severe mental breakdown. After the breakdown, I told him that I thought I had been raped by my father. I was not sure of the age in which it happened. (I started with the age of four and then changed it to six and then seven.) I was encouraged by my psychologist to talk about the abuse in groups and in therapy sessions. My psychologist and I confronted my mother about it. I wrote a letter to my father and with the help of the hospital social worker, reported him to a child abuse hot line and continued to accuse him.

I was on four or five different medications and I became dependent upon Halcion and Xanax in order to function at a minimal level. Over the next few years, my doctors placed me on several more medications including lithium, tegretol, ativan, desipramine, stelazine, Triavil, and nortriptyline.

For the next three years, this problem ruled my life. I was obsessed at how unresolved it all felt I was tormented constantly. I became too sick to work regularly and went on disability as I could not work without having "flashbacks." I did little besides reading Courage to Heal and crying and feeling depressed and angry. It didn't seem as though I was "healing" at all, but instead was just getting worse. I felt a desperate need to remember more of what happened to me so that I could get well and get on with my life. I was always thinking and trying, trying hard to remember. I tried all the "tricks" in Courage to Heal ()() and the Workbook (), but still I could not remember anything concrete, although I was convinced that it had happened. Hoping to get away from my pain, I moved to another state.

At the same time, I was constantly beset by doubts about my experience. It felt that I was "making it up," but it said in Courage to Heal that the memories often feel that way.

At the recommendation of friends, therapists, and a person I knew who had started an organization called Sexual Abuse Victims Enlightenment, I started litigation against my father for the imagined childhood rape. I was told that I would be "validated" by doing this and that it would help my "healing" along by much.

Also, in hopes of my memories being triggered, I founded the only Survivors of Incest Anonymous (S.I.A.) group in my city. I was the leader of the group and supplied everyone with literature on "remembering" and the 20 questions of S.I.A. (see appendix). In the questions, it says that if you have answered yes to three or more of these questions, "Survivors of Incest Anonymous can help." Upon close inspection of the questions, however, many of them can be applied to just about anybody.

After starting the group, my internal pressure to remember the sexual abuse increased greatly and that is when I entered regular therapy. I went to both a hypnotherapist and a clinical psychologist at the same time. I told them that I believed I had been raped at a young age and that it was causing all my present emotional and mental problems.

Both of the therapists encouraged and pushed me to "remember" more and more, even though I was starting to show signs of psychosis during the treatment sessions. I was rapidly losing the ability to differentiate between my imagination and my real memory. I also started, at that time, to have "memories" of satanic ritual abuse that were always accepted by my therapists and that I was never asked to question. As a result, I came up with many more visualizations, and some graphic and detailed sexual abuse stories which started to involve murder. The "memories" became increasingly more shocking and violent, and I became more ill with each therapy session.

In the fall of 1991, with the enthusiastic encouragement of my hypnotherapist, I began showing signs of MPD (multiple personality disorder). In the hypnosis sessions, the therapist would have me "relive" the rape but all the while it never felt real, never like a real experience. He would ask me if there were any other "people" there with me, and then he would have me identify and name the other "parts" of me. Afterwards, when I went home I would draw them for him. Meanwhile, I read books such as Courage to Heal and books on MPD. My symptoms grew much worse with therapy until I finally suffered a mental breakdown and was hospitalized.

During this recent hospitalization, I finished sorting out what I had already started — that the detailed and graphic memories had not been real, but were some kind of hallucination or figment of my imagination that had been accept as historical fact and encouraged by my therapists.

The realization that the memories were not real came on gradually, over a period of a few days to a few weeks. I had been taking a course in college psychology and was studying the brain and memory when the scientific research that I was reading was not in agreement with what the therapists seem to believe. I learned in textbooks about memory that our brain "loses" much of what we experience and that our entire childhood was not somehow recorded and is not buried, waiting to be brought up like a video movie in the way the therapists would have me believe.

I have since stopped the litigation against my father and apologized to him and my family. I still remain perplexed and disturbed as to how this all could have happened to me, but I know that the Courage to Heal book had a lot to do with it, along with the three different therapists who coached me over a period of three years. During that time, I also saw two different psychiatrists, but the psychiatrists did not encourage the false memories as the other therapists did — in fact they expressed doubt that my memories were real.

I now feel very well emotionally since quitting "therapy." However, my life has been ravaged though all of this. I lost a good job, my husband divorced me, and worst of all, I lost my family. The pain and destruction that have been wrought upon my life and that of my family can never be reversed.


Appendix
THE 20 QUESTIONS OF S.I.A.

1. Do you have problems with self-confidence and self-esteem?
2. Do you feel you are either passive or aggressive? Do you have problems acting assertively?
3. Do you feel you have to "control" your emotions?
4. Do you feel easily intimidated by authority figures?
5. Do you sabotage current relationships, especially sexual relationships?
6. Do you fear that people are interested in you primarily for sex? Does the importance of sex seem exaggerated? Do you feel that you have to be careful how you act and dress because you might sexually arouse others?
7. Are you afraid to love — always questioning "what will they want from me now?"
8. Do you act "different" or passive around your family of origin?
9. Currently, do you over-react or misdirect your anger in situations that frustrate you? Are you afraid of anger?
10. Do you avoid taking control of your life today? Do you have trouble making decisions?
11. Are you a perfectionist, over-achiever, or generally a compulsive person?
12. Do you get upset when you hear a rape, incest or child abuse victim tell their story?
13. Do you have trouble trusting others or trusting your own perceptions?
14. Do you have unrealistic, unreachable expectations of your self as a parent? Do you feel you have to compensate for something? Do you try to be a superior parent or have you deliberately avoided becoming a parent altogether?
15. Do you have blocks of your childhood you can't remember? Do you have a sense that "something happened?" Do you have memories of abuse with no emotions associated with those memories?
16. Have you ever been promiscuous? When you have sex, are you really seeking love, affection, and acceptance?
17. Do you feel sex is "dirty?" Do you avoid mirrors? Do you feel you're unattractive?
18. Do you feel you are different, a freak? Do you fear someone will discover your secrets?
19. Do you have a problem with alcohol, drugs, food, migraines, or back pain?
20. Have you ever considered suicide? Have you ever suffered from depression or felt there was a "black cloud" hanging over you?

If you have answered "YES" to three (3) or more of these questions, Survivors of Incest Anonymous can help.

http://www.ipt-forensics.com/journal/volume4/j4_4_9.htm
 
MIST;3820508 said:
It´s possible that WR think it´s true, that he remember things from false memories.
How do you know if repressed memories come back that it´s memories of what really happened?
If you have problems with sex it must be because you were molested as a child and not because you are too stressed out...
who knows maybe he got some ideas from the therapist

This is exactly what I was thinking today. If Wade truly had a breakdown he would be very susceptible to suggestion, he could also have been medicated. Scary thought.
 
^ Luckily for wade, he's happily married and got a young son, so seems to have miraculously escaped any sexual confusion from his 7yr sex abuse between ages 7-14 from the world's biggest star which was so traumatic that it was repressed for 20 years.

I'm still smh at that ridic statement wade's lawyer gave, esp reading it in all it's crazy entirity on radaronline.

The irony here is that we were the ones who filed under seal and still tried to keep it secret... But the Jackson money machine, in which everyone is indeed financially motivated, is at it once again to keep the truth from coming out. This time it won’t work.
He filed the complaint in secret but blames the estate from keeping the truth coming out. He's a nutcase.
 
Re: [Confirmed ] New child molestation claim by Wade Robson/ Estate Pg16 -#230 /Wades Atty Pg 28 -#

Lionel Richie New MJ Molestation ClaimsAre 'Bogus'



Michael Jackson's longtime friend Lionel Richie is scoffing at the new molestation claim against the King of Pop ... telling TMZ, Wade Robson's abuse allegations are "bogus."

As we first reported, Robson -- a famous choreographer -- filed a creditor's claim against Michael's estate this week claiming the singer sexually abused him as a child.

Wade's lawyer told TMZ ... as far as he's concerned MJ was a "monster" who sexually abused Wade for seven years ... and then threatened Wade if he ever went public.

Sources close to Wade told us, 30-year-old Wade's repressed memories came flooding back following a nervous breakdown last year.

But Lionel's STILL got MJ's back ... check out the video.

 
MIST;3820508 said:
It´s possible that WR think it´s true, that he remember things from false memories.
How do you know if repressed memories come back that it´s memories of what really happened?
If you have problems with sex it must be because you were molested as a child and not because you are too stressed out...
who knows maybe he got some ideas from the therapist

I would not exclude the possibility that his therapist really convinced him that something happened, but what speaks against that is that they are going for money and that all of this is a bit too convenient at a time when Wade apparently doesn't have any other source of income.
 
Re: [Confirmed ] New child molestation claim by Wade Robson/ Estate Pg16 -#230 /Wades Atty Pg 28 -#

I would not exclude the possibility that his therapist really convinced him that something happened, but what speaks against that is that they are going for money and that all of this is a bit too convenient at a time when Wade apparently doesn't have any other source of income.

now that Michael is dead, is the money route the only option they have? Can they take him to court aka 2005?
 
Re: [Confirmed ] New child molestation claim by Wade Robson/ Estate Pg16 -#230 /Wades Atty Pg 28 -#

All I can say is THANKFULLY the media in the UK haven't really paid much attention to this at all YET (!).

In terms of the big media outlets, I haven't seen anything on the BBC News website and only a small article quite low down on the Sky News website. Been at work all day so haven't seen TV news bulletins, but I doubt there's anything much on there at the moment. Also nothing on both the morning and evening free newspapers (Metro and Evening Standard, which Londoners will know about) on the Underground here in London. Those newspapers are read by millions of Londoners everyday to and from work (because they're free!).

I really hope it stays that way and this story just fizzles out until it is hopefully dismissed in court.

I agree.

I had a quick look at some papers that I usually prefer to avoid. The UK Daily Mail had a single column article on page 32...about 3.5 paragraphs...(less than 3inches of text). I couldn't see anything at all in The Sun. I hope they think it's not worth reporting on, as being such an obviously money-oriented claim. Or maybe they are just waiting for 6th June and more information....
 
Re: [Confirmed ] New child molestation claim by Wade Robson/ Estate Pg16 -#230 /Wades Atty Pg 28 -#

I'm still smh at that ridic statement wade's lawyer gave, esp reading it in all it's crazy entirity on radaronline.


He filed the complaint in secret but blames the estate from keeping the truth coming out. He's a nutcase.

That and also saying that he's referring the "Jackson money machine" not being able to supress "the truth" this time - when they demand money...

According to Mez this is an experienced, accomplished lawyer. Maybe. But he really does sound unprofessional in this statement.
 
Re: [Confirmed ] New child molestation claim by Wade Robson/ Estate Pg16 -#230 /Wades Atty Pg 28 -#

now that Michael is dead, is the money route the only option they have? Can they take him to court aka 2005?

I don't think they can take him to criminal court, but I'm not sure. However, if this happened to someone what would be justice even if criminal court is no option? To me quietly filing a creditor's claim does not seem like justice. And like I said it's all a bit too convenient now that he doesn't have income.
 
Re: [Confirmed ] New child molestation claim by Wade Robson/ Estate Pg16 -#230 /Wades Atty Pg 28 -#

Dr. Elizabeth Loftus was on the defense's witness list in 2005. If this goes to trial maybe she will testify as an expert.
Interesting, I was not aware that she was on the defense's witness list in 2005. She would be an excellent expert witness if this case ever goes to trial. Dr. Loftus is the most acclaimed researcher when it comes to false memories. She was also one of the first, and most fierce, opponents of the repressed memories idea. She was heavily criticized by the proponents of this idea in the early 1990s when she published several papers about it and served as an expert witness on memory in multiple court cases that dealt with repressed memories.
 
Re: [Confirmed ] New child molestation claim by Wade Robson/ Estate Pg16 -#230 /Wades Atty Pg 28 -#

I don't think they can take him to criminal court, but I'm not sure. However, if this happened to someone what would be justice even if criminal court is no option? To me quietly filing a creditor's claim does not seem like justice. And like I said it's all a bit too convenient now that he doesn't have income.

im just wondering if you can take a deceased person to criminal court, seeing as they have no chance of defending themselves?
 
Re: [Confirmed ] New child molestation claim by Wade Robson/ Estate Pg16 -#230 /Wades Atty Pg 28 -#

GlitterySocks ?@GlitterySocksPM 1m
Susan Yu is NOT Wade Robson's attorney. @radar_online clearly misstated that fact. From Susan: "Nor would I ever represent such a person."


Just for further reliefs to be had.

When I saw her name scrolling through I almost lost it.

^ Luckily for wade, he's happily married and got a young son, so seems to have miraculously escaped any sexual confusion from his 7yr sex abuse between ages 7-14 from the world's biggest star which was so traumatic that it was repressed for 20 years.

I'm still smh at that ridic statement wade's lawyer gave, esp reading it in all it's crazy entirity on radaronline.


He filed the complaint in secret but blames the estate from keeping the truth coming out. He's a nutcase.

And he's asking for money to stop the truth from coming out. He's specifically hoping there is a Jackson Money Making Truth Prevention Squad out there and it'll pay to keep them quiet.


It definitely has to fall into "repressed memories" as people are saying:
andjustice4MJ @andjustice4some

9th May 2013 from TwitLonger

CA Probate Code, Section 9103: Filing Late Creditor's Claims:

Section 9103



(a)

Upon petition by a creditor or the personal representative, the court may allow a claim to be filed after expiration of the time for filing a claim provided in Section 9100 if either of the following conditions is satisfied:

(1)

The personal representative failed to send proper and timely notice of administration of the estate to the creditor, and that petition is filed within 60 days after the creditor has actual knowledge of the administration of the estate.

(2)

The creditor had no knowledge of the facts reasonably giving rise to the existence of the claim more than 30 days prior to the time for filing a claim as provided in Section 9100, and the petition is filed within 60 days after the creditor has actual knowledge of both of the following:

(A)

The existence of the facts reasonably giving rise to the existence of the claim.

(B)

The administration of the estate.

PAY ATTENTION TO (2):

The creditor (Robson) had NO KNOWLEDGE OF THE FACTS reasonably giving rise to the claim. Therefore, the ONLY way Robson could even begin to claim this is if he states that he did not remember (had no knowledge) of this alleged, and complete lie of molestation by Jackson.

Also means he had to have learned about it by March of this year.
 
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