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Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

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I'm not sure if Debbie is the right person to be around Paris, the girl needs stability, which I don't think Debbie can provide her. Thus far she seems like another hanger on, who was looking out for her own interests rather than Michael's i.g keeping her mouth shut about what these doctors were really doing, so that SHE wouldn't loose access to Michael.
Paris needs Michael not Debbie, but thanks to Murray that's not possible.
 
Yeah Debbie should've reported Klein, but don't forget ya'll Hoefflin was also friends with the family. Don't you all remember on Oprah 2010 Katherine admitted she thought MJ was addicted to plastic surgery and she said out of her own mouth that she would call the plastic surgeon ( she didn't mention his name) and would tell him to not operate on MJ anymore and to just 'pretend' to do something. I guess Hoefflin was following Mama Katherine's orders huh??:bugeyed They are all guilty as hell including Katherine. That is not how to help your son who you believe has issues with plastic surgery. You send him to a psychiatrist
 
ivy said:
the original post said "Report it to the medical board" , that would require the patient name and possibly after an investigation it would leak to the media. That's what I meant by "putting Michael on the spot". I don't think Michael liked his business to be public.
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There you go again Ivy putting the law on it and you are right.


I tell you i am just overwheliming with Debbie testmony right now. I don't know which this will go.
 
twinklEE said:
She wanted to remain close to the superstar.
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I agree twinks.

I also don't believe that Ms. Rowe was the only person who could say no to Michael, as per her testimony.

In my opinion, she was just like the others, looking the other way, not wanting to rock the Michael Jackson boat fearing that he would cut you off.

She can play tough now, but as far as I'm concerned, she was UNDER Michael's spell just like everybody else.
 
This is all so disgustingly outrageous. To discover the extreme degrees of abuse, mendacity and outright robbery Michael suffered at the hands of trusted doctors, his family, his business associates and the media is almost unimaginable.
 
jaydom7 said:
Yeah Debbie should've reported Klein, but don't forget ya'll Hoefflin was also friends with the family. Don't you all remember on Oprah 2010 Katherine admitted she thought MJ was addicted to plastic surgery and she said out of her own mouth that she would call the plastic surgeon ( she didn't mention his name) and would tell him to not operate on MJ anymore and to just 'pretend' to do something. I guess Hoefflin was following Mama Katherine's orders huh??:bugeyed They are all guilty as hell including Katherine. That is not how to help your son who you believe has issues with plastic surgery. You send him to a psychiatrist
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I remember that she said it i have it on tape i recorder that interview with OW.
 
Victory22 said:
This is all so disgustingly outrageous. To discover the extreme degrees of abuse, mendacity and outright robbery Michael suffered at the hands of trusted doctors, his family, his business associates and the media is almost unimaginable.
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I agree with you 100%.
 
jaydom7 said:
Yeah Debbie should've reported Klein, but don't forget ya'll Hoefflin was also friends with the family. Don't you all remember on Oprah 2010 Katherine admitted she thought MJ was addicted to plastic surgery and she said out of her own mouth that she would call the plastic surgeon ( she didn't mention his name) and would tell him to not operate on MJ anymore and to just 'pretend' to do something. I guess Hoefflin was following Mama Katherine's orders huh??:bugeyed They are all guilty as hell including Katherine. That is not how to help your son who you believe has issues with plastic surgery. You send him to a psychiatrist
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Michael was an adult, a stubborn one at that. I doubt anyone was able to make Michael go/do anything he didn't want to.
As for Katherine, I've seen thru her 'sweet old innocent lady' mask years ago, I wish someone would expose her ass as much as she is ready and willing to call Michael all kinds of names and throw him under the bus.
If she hadn't let Joe crack Michael's soul and beat the life out of him when he was a child, Michael wouldn't have had the self esteem issues/issues he had.
 
I had heard these stories about Hoefflin years ago. Apparently he had done this to other celebrities and was known to make fun of them as well (including Elizabeth Taylor).

Rowe's reaction seems to be typical of the kind of people who surround celebrities, even on the periphery. No-one wants to rock the boat for fear of reprisal or being shut out. It is a sad and unfortunate by-product of our twisted celebrity culture.
 
pminton said:
I remember that she said it i have it on tape i recorder that interview with OW.
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Yep!!! I bet Katherine would deny saying that now... was she crying in court too? I am glad we all have that on tape.. Katherine's way to help her son overcome his alleged plastic surgery 'addiction' as she calls it was to have a surgeon put him under and just pretend to do something. What a mother!!:busted:
 
Victory22 said:
This is all so disgustingly outrageous. To discover the extreme degrees of abuse, mendacity and outright robbery Michael suffered at the hands of trusted doctors, his family, his business associates and the media is almost unimaginable.
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I really wonder what Michael did to deserve all this.. I just don't get it, probably never will. Sometimes I feel like whole mankind owes Michael an apology.
 
twinklEE said:
I'm not sure if Debbie is the right person to be around Paris, the girl needs stability, which I don't think Debbie can provide her. Thus far she seems like another hanger on, who was looking out for her own interests rather than Michael's i.g keeping her mouth shut about what these doctors were really doing, so that SHE wouldn't loose access to Michael.
Paris needs Michael not Debbie, but thanks to Murray that's not possible.
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So far we don't know if she told Michael or not. I hope she did because otherwise that'll demonstrate she's like many others who noticed what was going on with the docs and didn't say anything.

You're right Paris needs Michael and he's not here for her. When her father died she was placed with snakes and until I don't hear if she told Michael about the doc, I will continue to believe that she's better than any of Michael's relatives. It's so sad to see that Michael took such a loving care to raise his children to be nice & humble and at the end they end up with people with malicious tendencies. Hope the seed of love Michael planted in his children hearts never dies.
 
Petrarose said:
I understand Michel because I can't take little pain either much less pain from the type of surgeries he had; plus back pain is one of the worst things It seems Debbie is putting some blame on the doctors here, but AEG might say that Michael had some responsibility too.
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That's exactly right--the people who criticize Michael and call him out on the drug dependency do not realize how much pain he was in & how incredibly difficult it was to endure it. Add to that the pressures of just being Michael Jackson and then having to dig deep to perform. No one has even walked in Michael's shoes and I imagine he was in constant pain--both physical and emotional. He relied on medical doctors to help him and they let him down. All of them.

I also resent the characterization that Michael "abused" drugs when doctors were the ones administering them!!!! Honestly. Michael did NOT give himself propofol or any of these other drugs--they were ALL administered or prescribed by medical doctors who all took an oath to DO NO HARM. Michael asked for help and what he got was star-struck excuses for medical doctors with no character. And, AEG played no role in any of that.
 
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I bet Michael feared pain for what Joseph inflicted on him, he associated pain with the beat ups and suffering. Damn you, Joseph and Katherine, him for abusing and exploiting him and her for doing absolutely nothing! :cry:
 
crillon said:
That's exactly right--the people who criticize Michael and call him out on the drug dependency do not realize how much pain he was in & how incredibly difficult it was to endure it. Add to that the pressures of just being Michael Jackson and then having to dig deep to perform. No one has even walked in Michael's shoes and I imagine he was in constant pain--both physical and emotional. He relied on medical doctors to help him and they let him down. All of them.
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Quoted for emphasis
 
twinklEE said:
I'm not sure if Debbie is the right person to be around Paris, the girl needs stability, which I don't think Debbie can provide her. Thus far she seems like another hanger on, who was looking out for her own interests rather than Michael's i.g keeping her mouth shut about what these doctors were really doing, so that SHE wouldn't loose access to Michael.
Paris needs Michael not Debbie, but thanks to Murray that's not possible.
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I agree, sadly. I wish Debbie could be the stable one, the one who gives Paris what she needs. But, Debbie was clear years ago when she said she didn't want to be a mother and I suspect that hasn't changed. Paris needs a loving parent who adores her and the reality is that parent is no longer here. Debbie is not the answer. imo
 
McCartney: The doctors "were going back and forth the whole time, not caring about him," Rowe told jurors.

Rowe said she told another one of Jackson's doctors, Allan Metzger, that she was concerned that Klein and Hoefflin were giving the singer too many medications.

The only physician who ever did anything, the only physician who cared for Michael was Allan Metzger," Rowe said, fighting back tears.

Rowe said Metzger arranged for two doctors to give Jackson the anesthetic propofol in Germany in 1997 when he complained that he couldn't sleep during his "HIStory" tour.

On two occasions, the doctors brought medical equipment to Jackson's hotel suite and monitored the singer while he was under the effect of the anesthetic for eight hours. The doctors warned Jackson about the dangers of using propofol, but Rowe said he disregarded the information.
"He was just more worried about not sleeping," she said. Rowe said she would not allow the singer to get similar propofol treatments for sleep issues after the use in Germany.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/jury-hear-jacksons-ex-wife-debbie-rowe
 
So Debbie is saying Metzger arranged it and Metzger said he had no idea what Ratner was giving:busted: I believe Metzger is lying. He knew exactly what Ratner was giving MJ for sleep. Like I said they are all guilty. Metzger, Hoefflin, Klein, Ratner and Murray
 
I really hope that when this is all over that the jury who may not have liked Michael much or his music or don't know anything about him end up having compassion and understanding for him. He was used and abused his whole life and yet he still managed to care about everybody. I don't care who you are if someone is tricking or do something behind his back like this Hoeffin doctor did then Michael should have known. If I went for a procedure and the doctor didn't do anything but my friend or someone saw that I would want to know.
 
On two occasions, the doctors brought medical equipment to Jackson's hotel suite and monitored the singer while he was under the effect of the anesthetic for eight hours.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/jury-hear-jacksons-ex-wife-debbie-rowe
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In no way am I justifying the usage of Propofol as a sleep aid, but this right here caught ny attention. Michael took it previously but the doctors had medical equipment and monitored him. Something Murray that bastard didn't do.
 
Why didn't anyone take MJ to a sleep therapist or a psychiatrist? why didn't these 'doctors' do that. I think I know the answer. They didn't want to lose MJ to another doctor. They wanted MJ and his money all to themselves.
 
marebear said:
I really hope that when this is all over that the jury who may not have liked Michael much or his music or don't know anything about him end up having compassion and understanding for him. He was used and abused his whole life and yet he still managed to care about everybody. I don't care who you are if someone is tricking or do something behind his back like this Hoeffin doctor did then Michael should have known. If I went for a procedure and the doctor didn't do anything but my friend or someone saw that I would want to know.
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Yep! I have love MJ and have so much compassion for him because it's obvious he was used and abused by others including his own family. I think Debbie is making MJ look very sympathetic
 
twinklEE said:
In no way am I justifying the usage of Propofol as a sleep aid, but this right here caught ny attention. Michael took it previously but the doctors had medical equipment and monitored him. Something Murray that bastard didn't do.
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right and that's why Murray is in jail.. He wasn't monitoring MJ which deviated from the standard of care for administering propofol. Murray had 17 egregious errors when administering this anesthetic.
 
Justthefacts said:
Either Debbie or Metzger is not telling the truth. One of them lied under oath
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Yep!! I think it was Metzger because there is no way this doctor didn't know what Ratner was doing to MJ.. why else would an anesthesiologist be needed if he wasn't using anesthesia.. Metzger knew
 
Nobody cared about him. Not a single person in that courtrooom had his interest at heart, everyone was following their own agenda, mother,brother, sister, father, ex wife, doctors.
With Debbie at least she didn't make Michael out to be this raging addict begging for drugs and more drugs, but spoke about his medical issues and the fact that he was taken advantage by nearly everyone he came in contact with. Even by those who had taken an oath NOT to harm anyone.
 
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Debbie's testimony makes Michael sympathetic. It gives you more knowledge of just how he Michael ended up in the situation that he did with prescription medication and dependency. Trusting people naively and unethical doctors.

You understand he wasn't doctor shopping, simply trying to get what he wanted in terms of meds, but he explicitly trusted these doctors and they took advantage of that trust.

That makes him and his situation sympathetic to the jury.

AEG got what they wanted about his drug use, but I don't know if it necessarily helps the narrative they are trying to create for the jury.
 
Debbie is doing a good job. I don't know where Paris is right now, but I believe that that Debbie has helped Paris a lot in getting her help. It's those people who need to see a psychiatrist and don't that one should worry about...not those who do see a psychiatrist.
 
That Other Fan said:
Debbie's testimony makes Michael sympathetic. It gives you more knowledge of just how he Michael ended up in the situation that he did with prescription medication and dependency. Trusting people naively and unethical doctors.

You understand he wasn't doctor shopping, simply trying to get what he wanted in terms of meds, but he explicitly trusted these doctors and they took advantage of that trust.

That makes him and his situation sympathetic to the jury.

AEG got what they wanted about his drug use, but I don't know if it necessarily helps the narrative they are trying to create for the jury.
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I agree
 
That Other Fan said:
Debbie's testimony makes Michael sympathetic. It gives you more knowledge of just how he Michael ended up in situation that he did with prescription medication and dependency. Trusting people naively and unethical doctors.

You understand he wasn't doctor shopping, etc, simply trying to get what he wanted in terms of meds, but he explicitly trusted these doctors and they took advantage of that trust.

That makes him and his situation sympathetic to the jury.

AEG got what they wanted about his drug use, but I don't know if it necessarily helps the narrative they are trying to create for the jury.
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I totally agree, but what AEG is establishing is that propofol was in Michael's life a long time ago.

It seems the more they try to establish that Michael had a lifelong issue, the more they are making the case that AEG was simply in the unfortunate circumstance of being the ones working with him when he died. (AEG's position)
 
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