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[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Im sorry but is there a fan code somewhere saying that to be a fan i have to think a certain way? Cant someone raise concerns without being jumped on like piranha food? Damn guys, im not saying that i believe anything right now, i just want to reserve judgement until the evidence is presented in court. Because no offense or anything, but if he DID do what these guys are claiming he did, they have every right to be heard
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Bull shit, were was the right to be heard when it mattered? When you could have stopped a child molester? Done with you
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Excuse me Sneddon wenr looking for him to testify, don't say he was not allowed he just chose not too. And when he did testify in front of a grand jury he said Michael did not touch him
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

larry141094 said:
Im sorry but is there a fan code somewhere saying that to be a fan i have to think a certain way? Cant someone raise concerns without being jumped on like piranha food? Damn guys, im not saying that i believe anything right now, i just want to reserve judgement until the evidence is presented in court. Because no offense or anything, but if he DID do what these guys are claiming he did, they have every right to be heard
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They had their chance to be heard for 20-25 years. Including during two very public rounds of allegations against Michael in 1993 and 2005. But of course when you testify at a criminal trial you cannot ask for money. But suddenly when the accused is dead and cannot defend himself and when there is money to be made, you suddenly realize you were abused and you suddenly want to be heard. How convenient. (And like I said in my previous post, how did Wade "want to be heard" when they initially wanted the case to be under seal?)

The only abusers here are Wade Robson and James Safechuck. They do not only abuse Michael's memory for the mighty $ but they also emotionally abuse three orphaned children - one of whom tried to commit suicide last year, partly because she was bullied over Robson's allegations...
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

larry141094 said:
In Robsons case, i agree his time has past. But the new allegation is coming from someone who wasnt allowed to testify
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Wasn't allowed? Do you really think that works like that? That someone was abused but is just not allowed to testify about it?

He was not called to testify because he told authorities both in 1993 and 2005 that nothing ever happened. As simple as that.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Only problem is, delayed disclosure is quite a common occurrence in child sex abuse cases... so pointing that out doesn't really give me any sense of relief here. As i said, im unsure and am going to wait until evidence (if any) is presented
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

This not case of late disclosures it case of change of story. And that change comes with a price tag.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

larry141094 said:
Only problem is, delayed disclosure is quite a common occurrence in child sex abuse cases... so pointing that out doesn't really give me any sense of relief here. As i said, im unsure and am going to wait until evidence (if any) is presented
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Wade's lawsuit is already out there. I have cited several points of it on the previous page. Including how this "delayed disclosure" in their case seems to be very conveniently constructed to get around statues of limitations...

Plus, delayed disclosure is common because people do not think they would be believed against some well respected member of the community or because they think their case is unique and it was their fault etc. None of that can be well applied in this case where we have MJ who was publicly accused two times and in 2005 (while both of these men were already adults) he went through a criminal trial. The prosecution, the media and a large portion of the public would have readily believed them if had they come out in 2005. Michael's popularity was at an all time low and polls showed that a majority of the public believed he was a molester. If there was a time favourable for any victim to come forward then that was it. How convenient that none of that triggered anything in these men. But when there is money to be made, they suddenly realize they are abuse victims.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Late realization of sexual abuse is common in what is known as non traumatic sexual abuse, in which the victim receives the abuse as a loving and caring act and will only later develop the understanding that it was not that at all.

Of course this can easily be a money grab, but it might also be genuine
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

And there is no way Sneddon would not have believed Safechuck.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Then why not say it was a loving carrying act when asked by the cops? Your starting to sound like Wade Roberson
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

larry141094 said:
Late realization of sexual abuse is common in what is known as non traumatic sexual abuse, in which the victim receives the abuse as a loving and caring act and will only later develop the understanding that it was not that at all.
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Wade claims anal rape. How can that be mistaken for "a loving and caring act", how can that be non traumatic for a child? An adult man repeatedly anally raping a 7-14 child, for God's sake! It's a violent, brutal act that is extremely painful for a child. Especially when we talk about repeated rape. How can then this person as an adult still not understand that it was sexual abuse when his alleged abuser is on a criminal trial for alleged sexual abuse? Sorry, but a person has to be a complete retard to not to understand this under the circumstances we are talking about in this specific case.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Sneddon was just a grumpy old man with a Vendetta. So he would easily ignore the truth if it was less convincing than someone lying through their teeth.

I just think that this is far more complicated than people might think. On one hand, it could easily be a money grab, on the other it could actually be abuse. I want to see what evidence is brought forward and i want to hear what the judge thinks before i make up my mind
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Justthefacts said:
Then why not say it was a loving carrying act when asked by the cops? Your starting to sound like Wade Roberson
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Exactly. Even if for some weird reason you can misunderstood anal rape for a loving and caring act and still not think anything bad of it as an adult, but Wade was specifically asked on the stand "did he do this to you, did he do that to you?" Why not then just say "yes, he did, but I didn't think it was wrong"?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

respect77 said:
Wade claims anal rape. How can that be mistaken for "a loving and caring act", how can that be non traumatic for a child? An adult man repeatedly anally raping a 7-14 child, for God's sake! It's a violent, brutal act that is extremely painful for a child. Especially when we talk about repeated rape. How can then this person as an adult still not understand that it was sexual abuse when his alleged abuser is on a criminal trial for alleged sexual abuse? Sorry, but a person has to be a complete retard to not to understand this under the circumstances we are talking about in this specific case.
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I know you mean well, but you not understanding the biochemical processes of the brain puts you with every psychologist that studies this very field. They don't have an explanation for it, all they know is that it is a common thing for memory loss of a traumatic event or an association of a traumatic event with something positive. It's a complex survival mechanism that isn't completely understood, whether or not its true in this case, i would ask you to at least look into what is common in child sex abuse victims, instead of making assumptions which are entirely baseless
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Oh please unless they are both special needs people that is bullshit.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

respect77 said:
Exactly. Even if for some weird reason you can misunderstood anal rape for a loving and caring act and still not think anything bad of it as an adult, but Wade was specifically asked on the stand "did he do this to you, did he do that to you?" Why not then just say "yes, he did, but I didn't think it was wrong"?
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Exactly, his testimony directly contradicts his claims. He says he remembered everything that happened (after his lawyer first made it seem like it was a case of repressed memories), but that he did not realize it was abusive. But on the stand in '05 he was not asked "were you abused by Michael Jackson?", he was asked very specifically about very specific acts. And he denied every single one of them.

larry141094 said:
I know you mean well, but you not understanding the biochemical processes of the brain puts you with every psychologist that studies this very field. They don't have an explanation for it, all they know is that it is a common thing for memory loss of a traumatic event or an association of a traumatic event with something positive. It's a complex survival mechanism that isn't completely understood, whether or not its true in this case, i would ask you to at least look into what is common in child sex abuse victims, instead of making assumptions which are entirely baseless
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The empirical evidence in favour of this repression mechanism is actually very limited. But more importantly, Wade clearly said that it is not a case of repressed memories.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Nowhere has Wade said he was anally raped by MJ, I don't know why you keep saying that.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

SoCav said:
The evidence in favour of repressed memories is actually very small. But more importantly, Wade clearly said that it is not a case of repressed memories.
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yeah, isnt he saying he always knew it happened, he just didnt understand that anal rape of a 7 year old was wrong....
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Repressed memories in general? Or just in this case? Because i dont think this is a repressed memory case (if any) i think it is a Betrayal Trauma case. But i find Justthefacts rendition of MANY abused people as "special needs" to be downright pathetic. There are many cases that retractions and even outright denials have come from Abuse victims. Yes it's illogical, yes it makes this case hard to believe (or any for that matter). But it's not uncommon in these sort of cases.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I am starting to wonder if you Larry, have a problem that has nothing to do with Michael Jackson. Where did I say many child abuse victims or special needs people? I was talking about those two and seeing how we know they are not special needs cases it's bullshit to say I didn't know it was wrong.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

larry141094 said:
I know you mean well, but you not understanding the biochemical processes of the brain puts you with every psychologist that studies this very field. They don't have an explanation for it, all they know is that it is a common thing for memory loss of a traumatic event or an association of a traumatic event with something positive. It's a complex survival mechanism that isn't completely understood, whether or not its true in this case, i would ask you to at least look into what is common in child sex abuse victims, instead of making assumptions which are entirely baseless
Click to expand...

Thing is with psychology, that you can hire an "expert" for the support of any side you want. There is a whole industry in the US built on the recovery of repressed memories of child abuse for example, but in the past years such practice has been questioned because too many innocent people have been accused because of some quack psychology like that. It seems to me sometimes when it comes to these type of allegations common sense goes out of the window and even the most nonsensical claims are given a pass by some people. That's why it's so easy to make people believe false allegations...

What Wade claims is not common in child sex abuse victims at all, now matter how much his lawyers try to hammer that into people's heads. This case is not typical at all in any way, like they claim it is. Plus the whole lawsuit is way too aimed at money and to get around statues of limitations. I have no idea why you want to ignore that completely.

I'd like to know what kind of evidence you are waiting for. I hope it means you are waiting for evidence from Wade's side because the burden of proof is on them and not on the Estate to prove a negative.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Gold Pants Girl said:
Nowhere has Wade said he was anally raped by MJ, I don't know why you keep saying that.
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He does say that. It's blocked out but the penal codes aren't. And when you look up the penal codes you will see it's anal penetration and anal rape that he mostly claims.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

"Oh please unless they are both special needs people that is bullshit.", which basically means, "For this to be true, then they must be special needs people". Which would then extend to people who were abused and did the exact same thing.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Kikuchiyo said:
He didn't know about Estate because he was too busy preparing for Michael Jackson: The Immortal World Tour by Cirque du Soleil! :lol:

July 30, 2011 - Wade Robson about his work on Michael Jackson: The Immortal World. From 2:24 onwards:


:puke:
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Hope the estate lawyers are aware of this video. otherwise someone please send them the link.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

respect77 said:
Thing is with psychology, that you can hire an "expert" for the support of any side you want. There is a whole industry in the US built on the recovery of repressed memories of child abuse for example, but in the past years such practice has been questioned because too many innocent people have been accused because of some quack psychology like that. It seems to me sometimes when it comes to these type of allegations common sense goes out of the window and even the most nonsensical claims are given a pass by some people. That's why it's so easy to make people believe false allegations...

What Wade claims is not common in child sex abuse victims at all, now matter how much his lawyers try to hammer that into people's heads. This case is not typical at all in any way, like they claim it is. Plus the whole lawsuit is way too aimed at money and to get around statues of limitations. I have no idea why you want to ignore that completely.

I'd like to know what kind of evidence you are waiting for. I hope it means you are waiting for evidence from Wade's side because the burden of proof is on them and not on the Estate to prove a negative.
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I dont really read into lawyers rhetoric, they're all crooks pretty much. My basis of this being common is based on medical journals i read during my first degree in University. And yes, it is Wade's side i am waiting on, innocent until proven guilty. He has the burden of proof, so lets see what he's got
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I think there is a lot of justified heightened emotions in this thread. Many fans including myself are very very hurt by these allegations. But they are allegations. Against a dead man. Who cannot defend himself. Just remember michael was found NOT GUILTY on June 13 th 2005 by a court of law. Nothing or nobody can Change that fact. There are some folks who will never let this go like Diane demon. They are determined to smear Michaela name and reputation. We should not let them win. As t-mez said Pandora's box was opened in 1993 by settling the case due to bad advice but neither michaels's children and family and friends and fans and michael himself should be punished for all eternity for this one mistake. People are accountable for themselves and what comes out of their own mouths. To justify these claims is to justify lies. Look into your hearts Mj fans and really ask yourself would you really believe people who want money and a quick paycheck with some 'repressed 'memories over someone who was clearly a good person and in many ways a child himself vulnerable to others manipulations? I would NEVER EVER support a child molester. If I had any doubts I would not buy xscape or any other mj products ever again. We are not puppets. Look into your hearts. This is what I have been doing myself when this mess started again last yr. I have been looking in my heart and I know what I feel deep into my soul. MJ was and will always be innocent. The facts support this. I pray a judge sees through these lies and we can continue to celebrate Michaels life in the manner he rightly deserves. Xxx
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

respect77 said:
He does say that. It's blocked out but the penal codes aren't. And when you look up the penal codes you will see it's anal penetration and anal rape that he mostly claims.
Click to expand...

What's the penal code used? 288 or 288(a)? There is a difference. They would have to be incredibly stupid to use 288, since MJ has never been accused of anal penetration.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Yes, Larry you are grown man who sees your abuser get into trouble for the same thing he did to you and still didn't know it was wrong? You have to be mentally underdeveloped or something else is going on that I don't want to get into.
 
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