Michael Jackson To Unleash World Premiere Experience At Billboard Music Awards

[Ramona122003]

no I don't know any news



This was really interesting. Now I totally get the comment that it would make Tupac's one look like a 80s game. They themselves explain how Tupac one was easy as he was bald and didn't move much. when compared to Tupac , MJ had a lot of movement and they were very smart about layers - musicians on the back, hologram dancers moving on the sides, front, back of Michael, and real dancers in the front- it gave MJ more depth and made him look more 3D than Tupac. So from that perspective I would say this a whole a lot advanced and better than Tupac.

But I agree that they probably needed more time to perfect it. Now it is obvious that they had a lot of stuff to animate - even just on the face with eyes, hair, mouth - and it probably made it really challenging for them. the comment "illusion still lacked believability two weeks before the awards" demonstrates that to me.

Overall it's a valid effort, definitely could have benefited from more time on it, it could be improved. And perhaps one mistake they did was being way too ambitious and trying to bite more than they can chew. It looks like it could have been better if they choose a more slower / less movement song and even perhaps having it hold a microphone and do not need to animate his mouth.

Oh and Ramona, I don't know if you are reading MaxJax but PG had wrote several days ago that it looked like they styled the look from Black and White and some face movements were referenced from B&W rap section. Given that the articles now state that Virtual MJ was based on 1991 , it makes sense. He also thinks some parts are MJ reference material, some parts are double and some are CGI. I guess it could be the case, a little of everything. That could also explain the "not an impersonator" comment, if it wasn't 100% body double and double was only used to fill in the needed parts.

Thanks for that information from MaxJax. Given how they created digital Michael, I cannot see why a double would have been used. I think like PG said they cut and pasted several references from the Dangerous Era to make Michael's face. He seemed more based on Remember the Times than Black and White. The hair looked like it came from the Dangerous Tour or the Super Bowl. I think the primary reason why some fans kept saying the face wasn't like Michael because it was a collage.

Maybe they used a someone who was about as tall as Michael to get his height, but it appears everything from his movements, looks, and expressions were inspired by videos and photos that they sculpted and animated into a computer. Although, they still could have motion-caption a train dancer for the movements since I cannot see them trying to program an original dance into a computer by hand.

 

[Ramona122003]

I just want to say that if you see the "differences" in VMJ face and real MJ face – it doesn’t mean automatically that an impersonator was used …

It could be as well a technical issue. I can guarantee that it was the most difficult task to recreate face

Well, they had to make him sing somehow and if there was someone’s face to help, it is not the same as if an impersonator danced all the performance in some cheap clothes.

I can tell you from personal experience that the face is the hardest thing to create. The face is the most recognizable part of the human body. It is what tell people who we are and it is the first thing people see. If anything is even just a little off, you will notice it.

Michael has the most recognizable face in the world. So even if the face is 99% correct, you will see that 1% that is off. Add singing in-sync with a song and you have a nightmare. I don't envy these people.

 

[Willy]

The projection technique is quite irrelevant. What most people have problem with is that most likely an impersonator have been used to create this virtual Michael. The newly presented explanations conveniently omit that issue. Some of us just can't get over that what we're seeing is some dude pretending to be MJ with his head digitally altered.

 

[Florin Daniel]

I just want to say that if you see the "differences" in VMJ face and real MJ face – it doesn’t mean automatically that an impersonator was used …

It could be as well a technical issue. I can guarantee that it was the most difficult task to recreate face

Well, they had to make him sing somehow and if there was someone’s face to help, it is not the same as if an impersonator danced all the performance in some cheap clothes.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/uSkaR4y9VD0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Allusio]

The projection technique is quite irrelevant. What most people have problem with is that most likely an impersonator have been used to create this virtual Michael. The newly presented explanations conveniently omit that issue. Some of us just can't get over that what we're seeing is some dude pretending to be MJ with his head digitally altered.

I tell you more, it IS VMJ pretending to be MJ !!! Wasn&#8217;t it actually clear from the very beginning?

IT IS NOT REAL MJ!

They used whatever they want and whoever they need to create VMJ, graphic image of MJ!

 

[LastTear]

@Tygger

The danger is evident when a person states, as Last Tear did (please understand Last Tear I am using your comment as an example only), that Michael would be criticized for the performance if he was alive as he was sitting on a throne and the dancing was decidedly out of character. It is an innocent thought however, anyone believing even innocently that Michael would do ANYTHING associated with that horrific performance - the stage, the clothing (not even white socks) the dance moves, (the awful dance break) the pretentious throne, the female at his feet (when did Michael ever have a female in that position in a performance), the song, the lip-syncing, the lighting, I can continue&#8230; - is such a disservice to Michael's performance reputation by his Estate that I am left speechless.

Its fine Tygger and it is an interesting thought. Tbh I think if Michael were alive he would be criticised for anything he did regardless of how good it was. I find the thought very sad that Michael had to leave us for the rest of the world to remember what we had never forgotten.

Idk if we could say that Michael would never have sat in a throne on stage, we have plenty of images of him sat in a throne - and this illusion was created to give an essence of Michael (that's how I look on it) and for us Michael in a throne is a familiar image plus it sticks it to the rest of the world that whether they like it or not a king he surely is! As for the female, clothes etc., although Michael never did doesn't mean he never would, I think TII was to have pole dancers for eg. The socks I agree with you and I do find it an odd choice, but Michael wore those to draw our attention to his feet maybe given the limitations of the technology it was better for the illusion not to. Just a guess.

I don't know if I can explain this very well, but from my perspective I'm not saying that it was perfect but I don't want perfection because to me only Michael can deliver that and I don't want a substitute I don't want the world thinking that Michael can be replaced in any way, on stage or in the studio, so in a way I embrace some flaws(there are limits though). I probably sound silly....

 

[SoCav]

Saw this posted elsewhere.

Hello Kindred Souls,

recently i have been contacted by so many people who inquired whether i was involved in the Slave to the Rhythm hologram. Unfortunately i am not entitled to give you any information regarding this project, but those who question my silence, my loyalty to Michael, and judge me i kindly ask for you're understanding, and patience In this matter.

Thank you.

I love you from the bottom of my heart.

Michael`s Messenger, Earnest Valentino

Translation: confidentiality agreement.

 

[Bubs]

^^ You know what, if they used impersonator or whatever at some parts or some stage, it is totally understandable because they couldn't use the real one for most obvious reasons :doh:

Before somebody comes up with reasoning that they could have used 3 D thingys of MJ that was done before, you need to ask question, whether the estate is the owner of those and were they even available to use.
Or to use other footage of MJ in this, what if it wasn't suitable?

It is so easy for us to sit in our arses behind computer screen, nit pick every single thing and complain, but you put your stuff out here and lets see how much better you do it + make sure every single person in fan base is happy.

 

[Bubs]

MJJC acting out again and posting doubles

 

[AngelMJ136]

For anybody interested, this is the facebook page of the company "Pulse Evolution" who created the projection.

https://www.facebook.com/PulseEvolution

This is their timeline showing different projects that they were involved with. Their participation is impressive. They played a role in many famous big budget VFX movies and also Tupac's coachella performance.

http://www.pulse.co/innovation-timeline/

I must say this company is quite good, but I guess they need more time.

 

[Allusio]

From Romona122003

«Maybe they used a someone who was about as tall as Michael to get his height, but it appears everything from his movements, looks, and expressions were inspired by videos and photos that they sculpted and animated into a computer. Although, they still could have motion-caption a train dancer for the movements since I cannot see them trying to program an original dance into a computer by hand»

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/uSkaR4y9VD0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

SO what ?!

I tell you more, it IS VMJ pretending to be MJ !!! Wasn&#8217;t it actually clear from the very beginning?

IT IS NOT REAL MJ!

They used whatever they want and whoever they need to create VMJ, graphic image of MJ!

 

[Bubs]

I can tell you from personal experience that the face is the hardest thing to create. The face is the most recognizable part of the human body. It is what tell people who we are and it is the first thing people see. If anything is even just a little off, you will notice it.

Michael has the most recognizable face in the world. So even if the face is 99% correct, you will see that 1% that is off. Add singing in-sync with a song and you have a nightmare. I don't envy these people.

I haven't watched the VMJ video that many times, but after your post I check it out again and concentrated my eyes to his face.I find it amazing how much it changed during the whole time. When it started, it looked nothing like MJ but as it went on it started to look more and more closer to MJ. Still a little bit more to do, but as Last tear said, I too don't want prefect VMJ.

 

[Florin Daniel]

@Allusio The only computer generated element on Billboard was the FACE!
Everything else was filmed and projected on the screen!
What you see there is Valentino filmed in flesh and bones... not computer generated Michael Jackson (virtual MJ).

 

[Birchey]

The only computer generated element was the FACE! Everything else was filmed and projected on the screen! What you see there is Valentino... not computer generated Michael Jackson (virtual MJ).

People just don't care unfortunately and will settle for laziness, Xscape is doing well in the charts and people will be talking about it for a few weeks, seems more important than actually representing Michael Jackson correctly, never did I ever believe so many fans would be happy with an impersonator being used officially as "MJ" on stage

 

[Allusio]

The only computer generated element was the FACE! Everything else was filmed and projected on the screen! What you see there is Valentino... not computer generated Michael Jackson (virtual MJ).

Can&#8217;t you see the difference from the video you&#8217;ve posted yourself?!

The moves are similar, as they are to be but look at the figure.

It&#8216;s absolutely different, starting from shoulders and hands to the legs!

VMJ does look more like MJ&#8217;s body&#8230; Plus some moves VMJ does (at the beginning and when he is walking to the girl) &#8211; NO impersonator can act like that &#8211; it was computer generated to look more like MJ.

 

[darkmed]

Saw this posted elsewhere.

Hello Kindred Souls,

recently i have been contacted by so many people who inquired whether i was involved in the Slave to the Rhythm hologram. Unfortunately i am not entitled to give you any information regarding this project, but those who question my silence, my loyalty to Michael, and judge me i kindly ask for you're understanding, and patience In this matter.

Thank you.

I love you from the bottom of my heart.

Michael`s Messenger, Earnest Valentino

Translation: confidentiality agreement.

Translation : i'm jumping on this to get my name everywhere and have 15 mins of fame and i have a lot of problems writing a simple email (smells like a copy/paste from an official announcement) that michael's messenger scares me tho some people are wierd lol

man i never heard of this guy before (apart from ECasanova i never heard of others anyways) but after watching an interview of that valentino i'm scared the guy went to far oO

 

[Spyce]

Hopefully now we can put the Alki David debate to rest. A new statement from the Estate:

From The Jackson Estate: "Alki David Had No Involvement"​

 

[Bubs]

Hopefully now we can put the Alki David debate to rest. A new statement from the Estate:

From The Jackson Estate: "Alki David Had No Involvement"​

Do I get this right, any information from David Alki is not to be trusted

When do we get statement from the estate regarding Earnest Valentino's statement and can you ask them if they are lazy or are they working hard:cheeky:

 

[AngelMJ136]

This is just in.

It wasn't an impersonator and it wasn't a hologram. But it was computer-generated! Check out how the Michael Jackson illusion from the Billboard Awards was created and if you haven't seen it yet, watch it here on our website.

http://www.mjworld.net/news/2014/05/23/the-secret-behind-michaels-grand-illusion/

 

[Birchey]

Look I don't like the guy from his past endeavours, but like I posted a while back that no one seemed to want to hear as they are too busy believing the hype. Alki David, never said he made the Hologram on that news report. The News reporter was the only one who claimed Hologram USA created "VirtualMJ" Alki only stated how the process is done in the industry. and we didn't even care either way whether or not he created it, how he said it was created, added to the big list of evidence we have to show they used a double and CGI head.

 

[AngelMJ136]

“You have to get across what’s called the ‘uncanny valley,’ which says the closer you get to making a digital human real, the creepier it gets,” says Patterson, adding that the illusion still lacked believability two weeks before the awards. “In the end, with all the intricate details in Michael’s face and gestures, we feel we got across.”

So I was right after all! Anyone who paid attention to my posts about the Uncanny Valley, kindly congratulate me. I will feel good.

 

[Spyce]

This is just in.

http://www.mjworld.net/news/2014/05/23/the-secret-behind-michaels-grand-illusion/

Ahhhhh! Why would you send traffic to the competition?! lol We have the same story up: http://www.mjjcommunity.com/news/the-secret-of-michael-jacksons-illusion

Look I don't like the guy from his past endeavours, but like I posted a while back that no one seemed to want to hear as they are too busy believing the hype. Alki David, never said he made the Hologram on that news report. The News reporter was the only one who claimed Hologram USA created "VirtualMJ" Alki only stated how the process is done in the industry. and we didn't even care either way whether or not he created it, how he said it was created, added to the big list of evidence we have to show they used a double and CGI head.

I believe what you said Birch. That wasn't directed at you, just at the masses at large. And maybe that's why the Estate did it too. Whether he made any claims to have been involved or not, the way the story was presented made it seem as though he was. So most people- if they even care, really- will think he was involved somehow.

I think they just wanted to make sure everyone was clear on the subject, that is all.

 

[Allusio]

^ As Romona122003 said > "they still could have motion-caption a train dancer for the movements since I cannot see them trying to program an original dance into a computer by hand"

It doesn't mean that there's no computer generated VMJ !

 

[Birchey]

I believe what you said Birch. That wasn't directed at you, just at the masses at large. And maybe that's why the Estate did it too. Whether he made any claims to have been involved or not, the way the story was presented made it seem as though he was. So most people- if they even care, really- will think he was involved somehow.

I think they just wanted to make sure everyone was clear on the subject, that is all.

I know, we be staff we do our jobs. the report was definately presented that way, but CNN took it down shortly after it was put the site I believe, anyhow we are MJ fans.............can't trust reporters :cheeky: or people who previously lied about MJ..............I dont trust that report ha ha

 

[ivy]

Look I don't like the guy from his past endeavours, but like I posted a while back that no one seemed to want to hear as they are too busy believing the hype. Alki David, never said he made the Hologram on that news report. The News reporter was the only one who claimed Hologram USA created "VirtualMJ" Alki only stated how the process is done in the industry. and we didn't even care either way whether or not he created it, how he said it was created, added to the big list of evidence we have to show they used a double and CGI head.

Ok so Alki didn't lie but the CNN reporter did? Isn't this a biased assumption? I thought you all had issue coming to biased subjective conclusions? But oh my bad, I forgot that your bias is totally fine. I mean it's not like you know what Alki said to her and if she simply repeating his lie.

Spyce to answer your question - no it won't put Alki issue at rest. There will be people who continue to try to make Alki look more credible than CNN and/or Executors. The last few days of this discussion should make it very clear.

 

[myosotis]

Ahhhhh! Why would you send traffic to the competition?! lol We have the same story up: http://www.mjjcommunity.com/news/the-secret-of-michael-jacksons-illusion

I believe what you said Birch. That wasn't directed at you, just at the masses at large. And maybe that's why the Estate did it too. Whether he made any claims to have been involved or not, the way the story was presented made it seem as though he was. So most people- if they even care, really- will think he was involved somehow.

I think they just wanted to make sure everyone was clear on the subject, that is all.

So that means that no Alki-D patented technology was used by this other company then? (as per his claims that 2 patents were infringed...which I think may include the projection screen...I'm not sure what the second claimed patented item might be)?

 

[Birchey]

Ok so Alki didn't lie but the CNN reporter did? Isn't this a biased assumption? I thought you all had issue coming to biased subjective conclusions? But oh my bad, I forgot that your bias is totally fine. I mean it's not like you know what Alki said to her and if she simply repeating his lie.

Spyce to answer your question - no it won't put Alki issue at rest. There will be people who continue to try to make Alki look more credible than CNN and/or Executors. The last few days of this discussion should make it very clear.

I am looking at the evidence isn't that what you always claim to do? Alki explained the process of how to create the illusion, using present tense he said "what we do is we capture the head...." he didn't say "we captured the head" if he was trying to say they CAPTURED Michael he would have used the past tense no, I am just speaking about what i hear with my own ears and not what I am being told, seems you would like people to just lap up all the BS being sent our way by the Estate and gimps who made VMJ? CNN obviously didn't do their homework and seeing they reported about the lawsuit happening before this seems they might of been playing devil's advocate, they removed the video now I believe.

And as for the Executors and creators of this VMJ's reliability.................I'll leave this here

"The Likeness of Michael was shot on a stage, then the face was digitally modified to match Michael as close as possible"

 

[LastTear]

Look I don't like the guy from his past endeavours, but like I posted a while back that no one seemed to want to hear as they are too busy believing the hype. Alki David, never said he made the Hologram on that news report. The News reporter was the only one who claimed Hologram USA created "VirtualMJ" Alki only stated how the process is done in the industry. and we didn't even care either way whether or not he created it, how he said it was created, added to the big list of evidence we have to show they used a double and CGI head.

He is just someone else using Michael in whatever way he can. Birchey, we are all different, you can stand aside from this mans endeavours to seek what you are looking for, some of us can't or won't. What bothers one person may not bother another and vice versa but which ever way we go we are all equally passionate.

I don't know whether or not a double was used, it would seem quite reasonable to assume that at some point they made have needed to, idk, I'm trying to learn but I'm not a technical kind of person at all.

I have been surprised by how quickly people jumped on 'they LIED' to us, can you please post the exact quote if you have it as I'm not sure how I would have missed it, I saw the Leech quote, but not one direct from the estate.

As to how accepting I may be about a double, it goes to what I was talking about earlier about 'essence' of Michael and being open to an illusion, if a magician stood on stage I don't want him to say 'Now this elephant will disappear...... Well not really, cos that would be false advertising'.

 

[Allusio]

Sometimes I just don&#8217;t understand what some people want.

I honestly do not care what technology and who was used to create VMJ to like it or dislike it.

I just judge by the result.

It wasn&#8217;t real but alike, it wasn&#8217;t typical for MJ but it was in his style (ask Michael Bush and Jamie King), it wasn&#8217;t perfect but designed and produced beautifully with lovely idea.

For the first time for one song &#8211; great effort.

I don&#8217;t like every aspect of entertainment, promotion to become a game to find something awful to speak out against executors, designers, producers &#8230; impersonators or fans.

IMO we need to help but not to ruin every attempt.

Ah, do I wish fans to respect the Estate and their work more &#8211; YES.

 

[Bubs]

Just quick question, what happen to Navi?

Even before BB show, some people were posting tweets from Navi or something regarding his involvement and how he was hush hush about what is going to happen? That actually started to the whole impersonator dispute, and it is not about Navi, its this Ernesto guy? Who is next? E'Casanove?
This speculation of impersonators is getting crazier by the day, and those impersonators are not helping the matter, in fact they post cryptic stuff in their social media and fans are lapping them up?

Seemingly we do not learn:no: People were lapping up David Alki's nonsense, and now same goes with impersonators. For a change, can we wait for more info before there is wildfire of madness and people going around posting half-truths, some truths or no truths at all?