Michael Jackson To Unleash World Premiere Experience At Billboard Music Awards

[LastTear]

Navi? He has something to say but I don't know what, the link just goes to CNN, probably the removed article containing he who shall not be named.

@officialnavi
A lot of questions have been asked. Some impersonators are trying to jump on the band wagon and claim they were... fb.me/2Y9ZpmykP
6:36pm - 21 May 14

So we have 3 potential stand ins and not one of them is actually denying their involvement.

 

[knigofpop]

Just quick question, what happen to Navi?

Even before BB show, some people were posting tweets from Navi or something regarding his involvement and how he was hush hush about what is going to happen? That actually started to the whole impersonator dispute, and it is not about Navi, its this Ernesto guy? Who is next? E'Casanove?
This speculation of impersonators is getting crazier by the day, and those impersonators are not helping the matter, in fact they post cryptic stuff in their social media and fans are lapping them up?

Seemingly we do not learn:no: People were lapping up David Alki's nonsense, and now same goes with impersonators. For a change, can we wait for more info before there is wildfire of madness and people going around posting half-truths, some truths or no truths at all?

Navi did take to Facebook saying that he was working on projects for the Xscape release but I believe he was referring to several promotions that he paeticipated in, not VMJ.

For me it's simple, the greatest illusion I have ever witnwssed was David Copperfields flying... it is mind blowing.

If I knew how he performed 'flying', all of the details and technicalities, for me it would ruin the illusion.

I enjoyed VMJ and was excited about the technology and magic of the event. I don't care to know how it was done.

Finally, when Michael transformed in to a werewolf during the Bad tour, the illusion was simple and I could see how it was done... the same with 'rocketman' on the Dangerous tour and the effect at the beginning of the Super bowl. Michael used impersonators all of the time. Just saying x

 

[ivy]

EDIT: Ivy, I apologize if I came off as a b*tch. I have no reason to be angry with you, it was simply what you said- "The last few days of this discussion should make it very clear."- that caused me some discomfort. To me, that read as "You idiot, if you knew anything at at all and if you paid any attention to the things that were said in here you would know this." And I took immediate offense to it.

spyce - allow me to be absolutely clear and direct in this regard. There was nothing in what I wrote that was aimed at you. While I was talking to you, I wasn't talking about you. So it shouldn't offend you.

However I stand with my opinion that there are people that are deliberately trying to make Alki look like trustworthy and credible.

I mean look over the last few days we have been told to overlook his publicity stunt and BS he created about MJ's private life / secret son. We have been told it was irrelevant that he had faked a DNA test and/or used it to milk publicity for himself and see him credible in regards to hologram issue. So what does that mean? As long as he's saying something we like and/or something against Estate, we are going to ignore what he did to Michael, the lies he created about Michael?

We are asked to ignore his sworn affidavit statements saying he didn't know about the hologram until 3 days before it aired and act like he has any kind of specific knowledge about MJ hologram.

The people who had issues with my bias, totally ignored Alki's bias (and their own bias for that matter). His website was presented as "direct information" ignoring the fact that it didn't include the opposite side and totally told Alki's version of events. The fact that Alki suing Estate, the fact that 1 day before the hologram he asked to be credited for it (and denied) has been totally ignored as a reason for why he might be going on to TV and trying to take credit for it. Alki is the least neutral person in this saga as he's suing the other parties. I always say everyone has a bias and that includes me as well as everyone else. So I don't get why people act like "you have a bias but I'm objective". It's a total BS. everyone has a bias to some extent.


Similarly people that had problems with my assumptions and conclusions have no problems with making assumptions themselves - such as the CNN reporter making a mistake / lying and just because Alki licensed a projection system, he is an expert in CGI technology. What's the basis for that? Nothing. I was at least coming to conclusions based on tidbits from court documents, I didn't create scenarios out of thin air. And as far as I'm concerned you cannot complain about my assumptions and then make assumptions yourself.

If you ask me it can't get more obvious and it can't get more double standard. So yeah I stand with what I said. It doesn't matter what extra information comes to light or what facts are presented, there will be some who still continue to make Alki more credible than the other parties simply because he said there was a body double and it fits with their way of thinking. I see this as something very obvious and not something to be offended about.

I'll make it again known that I don't care what people think about the hologram and if it's a body double or not. So what I'm posting here has nothing to do with the possible use of a body double or not. You or anyone believe it was a body double? Fine, absolutely fine and I don't necessarily disagree with you on that regard. However I'm annoyed that Alki is being given this free pass and portrayed as an angel. What's next? Siding with him or even helping him in the hologram case? People can still choose not believe Estate/Billboard/Pulse about the hologram but that doesn't mean Alki should be portrayed as something he isn't.

 

[Florin Daniel]

So we have 3 potential stand ins and not one of them is actually denying their involvement.

There is only ONE. It is Valentino!

 

[darkmed]

There is only ONE. It is Valentino!

don't be so sure buddy look at the video you posted that ernesto looks like an ants compared to the MJ body and i've seen other videos of that ernesto not same moves

 

[Bubs]

Navi did take to Facebook saying that he was working on projects for the Xscape release but I believe he was referring to several promotions that he paeticipated in, not VMJ.

Thank you. I remembered seeing Navi's name mentioned here few days before BB awards and something his involvement to it.

So let me get this clear,
Navi posted some info in his facebook and fans brought it here as fact to support their theory that the estate was going to use impersonator (this was before we saw anything on telly) and the estate are trying fool us.

Ernesto posted something in his facebook or where ever and fans brought his statement here to support their theory that impersonator was used.

My question is, did E Casanova post something about his involvement too, and why it is not posted here?

There were people here who came here with misinformation and it spread like wildfire among us, some believed it, some didn't. To be perfectly honest, the only ones that got fooled were us, and not by the estate, but ourselves.

Now it looks like the whole lot is some by computer wizardly thingy with possible some help from impersonator dancing. Huh! Talking about much ado about nothing.

 

[Florin Daniel]

don't be so sure buddy look at the video you posted that ernesto looks like an ants compared to the MJ body and i've seen other videos of that ernesto not same moves

Michael Jackson does the toe tip in ONE STEP.

Valentino does it in 3 (three) steps. One after another. He CAN'T do it proper.

1. Left Leg
2. Right Leg
3. Arms down

That's just an example.
I'll will not give you more....

I didn't even considered to do a longer video. It is so damn obvious.
Some of the moves are not even Michael's but only Valentino's.

So.. IMO Valentino was the star of the Billboard 2014!

 

[Florin Daniel]

Also Valentino is a liar son of a b*** and the biggest opportunist!

He went 3 times in one year here in Romania... acting like Michael Jackson himself (both, on stage and off stage)
Most of his videos are from Romania.
He went on television giving interviews.
He had even a live internet press conference before "the shows" (not even Michael himself had one)

He stated in interviews that he is the official double of MJ (like every impersonator state that he is the official and the no1) and that he was friend with Michael for a long time, and he worked with Michael since Bad Tour, and so on....

The true fact is that Valentino meet Michel for the frst time at the London Thrillel Killer Party in 2002. Probably that's the only and single time he ever meet Michael.

Michael's messenger MY A$$

 

[Tygger]

The Estate is always quick to release a statement to defend themselves. Alki lawsuit is the perfect distraction.

Last Tear, I appreciate your response however; I only used your comment as an example of how dangerous it is to use another’s image as one sees fit. I believe looking into Michael’s past as you did - a photo of him in his home sitting on a chair similar to a throne, TII acrobatic, female dancers (not routine pole dancers) performing above him – to somehow suggest he would perform in the manner presented at Billboard is futile. EVERY moment of that performance was a decision made by someone else other than Michael and should NOT, I repeat, NOT be confused with a Michael Jackson performance.

Michael Jackson does the toe tip in ONE STEP.

Valentino does it in 3 (three) steps. One after another. He CAN'T do it proper.

Sad. I remember some attempting to re-interpret what a multiple 360-spin was only because ex-AEG employee Phillips gave a false definition of it. Some will not believe what they have seen with their own eyes only because the Estate says so. Should be very simple for anyone with a clue to Michael's past performances to post video of Michael performing as he supposedly did "live" at Billboard. Should also be very simple to explain why any technology fed only Michael's past performances would deliberately disregard the movements programmed in favor of others. Much like a science fiction movie; I am left to assume technology perfected Michael's movements.

 

[Gold Pants Girl]

Everyone was so sure it was that Christopher guy, then other impersonators, and now Valentino? lol These people are fueling the fire by posting those cryptic messages. They are just looking for attention. If it was any of those people I doubt they would say a word about it. Also Valentino's body is nothing like MJ's, the VMJ's body was pretty damn close to real MJ's. IF they used a stand in, why use an actual MJ impersonator when they weren't using the face anyways? Makes no sense, it makes more sense to use a dancers body that most fits MJ's.

 

[WhoIsIt89]

Sometimes I just don’t understand what some people want.

I honestly do not care what technology and who was used to create VMJ to like it or dislike it.

I just judge by the result.

It wasn’t real but alike, it wasn’t typical for MJ but it was in his style (ask Michael Bush and Jamie King), it wasn’t perfect but designed and produced beautifully with lovely idea.

For the first time for one song – great effort.

I don’t like every aspect of entertainment, promotion to become a game to find something awful to speak out against executors, designers, producers … impersonators or fans.

IMO we need to help but not to ruin every attempt.

Ah, do I wish fans to respect the Estate and their work more – YES.

Well the fact is, after the Cascio track debacle, and this recent example of them not being completely honest, that just isn't going to happen. And people have valid reasons for not just eating up whatever the Estate says in regards to they're projects.

And this isn't an "we hate the Estate" thing. I've given the Estate credit when they've deserved it, I've defended them when they've deserved it, examples being BAD 25, and they're decision to "contemperize" Michael's songs. I've defended that, and acknowledged that they're about money, and in order to make money, that's what they have to do. My posts before this crap attest to that.

So for someone to allude to me as being a fan who is "never happy" and should just accept and respect whatever the Estate sends our way, I take offense to that. Because I'm not going to give them some blind allegiance when I see something wrong, or disagree with something they say, simply because another fan wishes it to be that way.

If I think the Estate is doing something wrong, I have a right to and will continue to speak on it. Regardless. That's what this thread is for, if you can't take people being rightfully critical of this, then I don't know what to tell you...

Everyone was so sure it was that Christopher guy, then other impersonators, and now Valentino? lol These people are fueling the fire by posting those cryptic messages. They are just looking for attention. If it was any of those people I doubt they would say a word about it. Also Valentino's body is nothing like MJ's, the VMJ's body was pretty damn close to real MJ's. IF they used a stand in, why use an actual MJ impersonator when they weren't using the face anyways? Makes no sense, it makes more sense to use a dancers body that most fits MJ's.

This is also 100% wrong. People only said Christopher Gaspar because of what he posted on his facebook, there were never any "other impersonators" mentioned, not on this forum anyway. It was only Christopher Gaspar & Earnest Valentino. And Earnest Valentino is the only one we're mentioning right now, simply because video provides evidence that it's him, not because we're "seeking attention" (That claim in itself, I find comical.). The exact same dance moves including the point to the ground during the toe stand, the same way the "CGI" and Earnest do the circular slide walk a lot quicker and less fluid than Michael ever did it along with many other "matches" between Valentino & the "CGI". The fact that Earnest and one other tribute artist tend to perform all the time with the tape on the pinky, ring and index finger. Sorta like the "CGI". And Valentino's body looks nothing like Michael's?? Really now??...


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/ULXFtRQ5pv0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Ft-eqQND7UY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> 1:30, some similar slightly better angles, but not really.

 

[WhoIsIt89]

Can&#8217;t you see the difference from the video you&#8217;ve posted yourself?!

The moves are similar, as they are to be but look at the figure.

It&#8216;s absolutely different, starting from shoulders and hands to the legs!

VMJ does look more like MJ&#8217;s body&#8230; Plus some moves VMJ does (at the beginning and when he is walking to the girl) &#8211; NO impersonator can act like that &#8211; it was computer generated to look more like MJ.

Dude, it's the SAME EXACT movements, even down to the wiggly thing he does with his feet after stepping out of his toe stand. You can't see Valentino's hands because one of them is covered with one of those cast things Michael liked to wear, the other is under his sleeve, which in terms of length, seems to be a bit too big for him. There's nothing different that I see other than the height of his shoulders, and the reason why that is may be because of the fact that the "VMJ" image was shown on an elevated stage, again as seen in live fan footage, where those up close, could only see the upper half of his body. Or it could simply be that the jacket has enforced shoulder pads, which many of Michael's own jackets had.

It's one thing to not care if an impersonator were used, but recognize valid points for what they are.

 

[Bubs]

Everyone was so sure it was that Christopher guy, then other impersonators, and now Valentino? lol These people are fueling the fire by posting those cryptic messages. They are just looking for attention. If it was any of those people I doubt they would say a word about it. Also Valentino's body is nothing like MJ's, the VMJ's body was pretty damn close to real MJ's. IF they used a stand in, why use an actual MJ impersonator when they weren't using the face anyways? Makes no sense, it makes more sense to use a dancers body that most fits MJ's.

One more impersonator popping up? Who is this Christopher and has he got statement to share too

Damn, it getting scary now :bugeyed There seems to MJ impersonators takeover going on, but I'm not quite sure what is that takeover?

 

[Annita]

Credits for the production:

Michael Jackson - Slave To The Rhythm
Production Companies: Optimum Productions, Pulse Evolution, Tricycle Logic
Creative Director: Jamie King
Associate Creative Director: Stephanie Roos
Executive Producers: John Branca, John McClain
Producers: Frank Patterson, John Textor, Karen Langford
Supervising Producers: Oualid Mouaness, Natalie Johns
Visual FX Supervisor: Stephen Rosenbaum
Production Designer: Tamlyn Wright
Editor: Guy Harding
Stylist: Michael Bush (Michael Jackson)
Stylists: Franck Chevalier (Dancers), Douglas VanLaningham (Dancers)
Choreographers: Rich Talauega, Tone Talauega
Production Manager: Nathan Stoebner
Production Coordinator: Joseph Davison

 

[LastTear]

@Tygger

Last Tear, I appreciate your response however; I only used your comment as an example of how dangerous it is to use another’s image as one sees fit. I believe looking into Michael’s past as you did - a photo of him in his home sitting on a chair similar to a throne, TII acrobatic, female dancers (not routine pole dancers) performing above him – to somehow suggest he would perform in the manner presented at Billboard is futile. EVERY moment of that performance was a decision made by someone else other than Michael and should NOT, I repeat, NOT be confused with a Michael Jackson performance.

Well, you know I will respond regardless of how you make it seem like I don't need to. I don't want us to end up going round and round as we have done previously, so although I disagree we will leave it there.

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[WhoIsIt89]

One more impersonator popping up? Who is this Christopher and has he got statement to share too

Damn, it getting scary now :bugeyed There seems to MJ impersonators takeover going on, but I'm not quite sure what is that takeover?

No, Christopher Gaspar posted a facebook post, the rough translation of it says he was used for a hologram for Xscape album. Thus never clarifying what event it was used for or whatever. This was immediately after the performance happened. So no, there isn't "one more impersonator popping up", he was just the only one to say such a thing.

 

[Bubs]

Are we arguing now about whether or not Michael posed in the throne
I have one too, cute one

Btw, wasn't that throne that they used in the video Michael's own, the one from Neverland?
See: http://thatgrapejuice.net/2010/03/r...son-exhibition-london/img00012-20100227-1622/


How about having woman hugging his feet or .....hmm something:

:cheeky:

 

[Allusio]

Dude, it's the SAME EXACT movements, even down to the wiggly thing he does with his feet after stepping out of his toe stand. You can't see Valentino's hands because one of them is covered with one of those cast things Michael liked to wear, the other is under his sleeve, which in terms of length, seems to be a bit too big for him. There's nothing different that I see other than the height of his shoulders, and the reason why that is may be because of the fact that the "VMJ" image was shown on an elevated stage, again as seen in live fan footage, where those up close, could only see the upper half of his body. Or it could simply be that the jacket has enforced shoulder pads, which many of Michael's own jackets had.

It's one thing to not care if an impersonator were used, but recognize valid points for what they are.

AGAINE From Romona122003

«Maybe they used a someone who was about as tall as Michael to get his height, but it appears everything from his movements, looks, and expressions were inspired by videos and photos that they sculpted and animated into a computer. Although, they still could have motion-caption a train dancer for the movements since I cannot see them trying to program an original dance into a computer by hand»

So there can be the SAME EXACT movements &#8230;

But if you do not see the difference in Valentino&#8217;s body and the body of VMJ then I don&#8217;t know what to tell you. Look at some other videos of Valentino.

The VMJ&#8217;s body at time looks exactly like Michael&#8217;s &#8230; No impersonator can look like that no matter how he will move! There were corrections! Those corrections possible only if it was computer generated.

 

[Florin Daniel]

@whoIsIt89 ...and yeah, Michael had high heels boots there. That's why it is tinny taller than Valentino.

 

[WhoIsIt89]

AGAINE From Romona122003

«Maybe they used a someone who was about as tall as Michael to get his height, but it appears everything from his movements, looks, and expressions were inspired by videos and photos that they sculpted and animated into a computer. Although, they still could have motion-caption a train dancer for the movements since I cannot see them trying to program an original dance into a computer by hand»

So there can be the SAME EXACT movements &#8230;

But if you do not see the difference in Valentino&#8217;s body and the body of VMJ then I don&#8217;t know what to tell you. Look at some other videos of Valentino.

The VMJ&#8217;s body at time looks exactly like Michael&#8217;s &#8230; No impersonator can look like that no matter how he will move! There were corrections! Those corrections possible only if it was computer generated.

I just posted an example of Michael & Earnest together. There isn't much difference, other than the fact that you KNOW one is really Michael Jackson and one isn't...But say no more. Believe what you want.


I'll comment here and there, but for the most part, I'll just observe and comment on what I feel needs to be commented on. I've posted so much to support my belief that it's simply an projected image of an impersonator in an awkward CGI face, that everything after this point would just be me repeating myself in circles.


So I'll just say this...Seem's like plenty here have forgotten the standards Michael set for himself and his work, or simply no longer care.

 

[Gold Pants Girl]

This is also 100% wrong. People only said Christopher Gaspar because of what he posted on his facebook, there were never any "other impersonators" mentioned, not on this forum anyway. It was only Christopher Gaspar & Earnest Valentino. And Earnest Valentino is the only one we're mentioning right now, simply because video provides evidence that it's him, not because we're "seeking attention" (That claim in itself, I find comical.). The exact same dance moves including the point to the ground during the toe stand, the same way the "CGI" and Earnest do the circular slide walk a lot quicker and less fluid than Michael ever did it along with many other "matches" between Valentino & the "CGI". The fact that Earnest and one other tribute artist tend to perform all the time with the tape on the pinky, ring and index finger. Sorta like the "CGI". And Valentino's body looks nothing like Michael's?? Really now??...

100% wrong? lol seriously? I saw a ton of people, in various places posting videos of Christopher convinced it was him and saying how similar the moves were. People finally realized he had nothing to do with it and moved on to a few different impersonators, and now people are on to Valentino. And where did I ever say people here are seeking attention? I said the impersonators are enjoying the attention.

 

[riviera1992]

That guy is good!
Like Michael, I don't mind a little impersonator here and there hee! hee!

 

[WhoIsIt89]

100% wrong? lol seriously? I saw a ton of people, in various places posting videos of Christopher convinced it was him and saying how similar the moves were. People finally realized he had nothing to do with it and moved on to a few different impersonators, and now people are on to Valentino. And where did I ever say people here are seeking attention? I said the impersonators are enjoying the attention.

You didn't see them here, not on this forum. People only mentioned Chris during the first day or two after, after he posted what he did on facebook. Nobody on this forum, in this thread said that the dance moves were "just like" Chris's and that it "looks just like" Chris, not here. Earnest Valentino HAS been the only impersonator we've been talking about after Chris, no one else. So yes, what you said was 100% wrong, because none of it applies to any of us on this forum, in this thread.

As far as your seeking attention comment, I'll apologize for misunderstanding that, as I now realize you were referring to the impersonators. But as far as everything else, yes, you were wrong in what you said.

 

[dewey]

I have one too, cute one

Such a magnificent picture of the real MJ. I may have to use it in a future siggy.

 

[Allusio]

Well the fact is, after the Cascio track debacle, and this recent example of them not being completely honest, that just isn't going to happen. And people have valid reasons for not just eating up whatever the Estate says in regards to they're projects.

Mind that I was not talking about trust but respect.

 

[#MJforever57]

New music is great. This performance was helpful in promoting the new music.

Before they do another hologram performance tech should be improved! - Face needs to look like MJ. - That's important !!

Amen

No more impersonators use MJ footages

 

[WhoIsIt89]

Mind that I was not talking about trust but respect.

Trust and respect go hand in hand, if I can't trust you, there's little reason for me to respect you, especially if you have a track record of shady business. And it still applies, people don't have to trust everything the Estate sends at them, and rightfully so.

So what you're attempting to get across is, that regardless of the valid reasons people have for not trusting the Estate, that we should just respect and eat up whatever they give to us? So basically, I should just have to accept a projection of an impersonator in CGI face as "Michael, like I've never seen him before"?

I should just respect and eat up an Estate released Jason Malachi record, labeled as Michael Jackson, simply because they say so?


Lol, I wish you well, but no, I will not just "respect" and eat up whatever the Estate says like you'd like me to.

 

[serendipity]

Finally, when Michael transformed in to a werewolf during the Bad tour, the illusion was simple and I could see how it was done... the same with 'rocketman' on the Dangerous tour and the effect at the beginning of the Super bowl. Michael used impersonators all of the time. Just saying x

Heck sometimes even the man himself was accused of being an impersonator (see the TII press conference) :lol:

 

[Allusio]

I just posted an example of Michael & Earnest together. There isn't much difference, other than the fact that you KNOW one is really Michael Jackson and one isn't...But say no more. Believe what you want.

There isn't much difference ?! I&#8217;m a bit surprised.

If Valentino looks so much like MJ for you I can only advice you to watch more videos with him.

 

[WhoIsIt89]

There isn't much difference ?! I&#8217;m a bit surprised.

If Valentino looks so much like MJ for you I can only advice you to watch more videos with him.

We're talking about how Earnest Valentino's body looks "NOTHING" like Michael's, according to you and Gold Pants Girl. And I just posted a video which shows that there ISN'T much difference in terms of body. Perhaps that's one of the reasons why Earnest was considered as one of Michael's "official" doubles, and supported as such by the man himself while he was still alive.


Please, I've watched countless video's of Michael and Earnest, there isn't anything you can tell me in regards to the two that I don't already know. Thank you.