Latest on MJJC

Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary - Estate Announcement Page 66

^ I can't 'edit' my post, but I wanted to add that I really dislike that chalk outline on the packaging, it reminds me of old fashioned murder films....
 
myosotis said:
^ I can't 'edit' my post, but I wanted to add that I really dislike that chalk outline on the packaging, it reminds me of old fashioned murder films....
Click to expand...

Or when Michael shoots the guy about to stab him in Smooth Criminal
 
^^I actually think HIStory documentary would be most interesting to watch and that it would be perfect for Spike Lee.
 
ivy said:
Interview with Spike Lee (removed non MJ related parts)


Spike Lee on His Revealing New Michael Jackson Documentary and Why Donald Trump Is 'Bananas'
1/14/2016 by Rob Tannenbaum


Your new documentary, Michael Jackson's Journey From Motown to Off the Wall, is a lot of fun to watch. It was the simplest period of his life, wasn't it, before all the tabloid *headlines and abuse accusations?

Back in 1979, there was no big pressure on Michael for Off the Wall. There were no expectations. It all turned after Thriller -- things get complicated when you sell the most records ever. People got swept up in Thriller, but Off the Wall's my favorite of the three records he did with Quincy Jones. Many people say that in the documentary, too.

His mom, Katherine, says Michael was very hurt when he won only one Grammy Award for Off the Wall in 1980. How much did that motivate him?
Michael Jordan's a good friend of mine. Any *negative thing someone says to him, he uses that as fuel. When Michael didn't win the Grammys he thought he should have won, it's like, "Alright, motherf--ers. I got somethin' for yo' ass." And that was Thriller.

Michael never seemed like an "alright, *motherf--ers" kind of guy.
No, he was. Let's not get it twisted: Michael was competitive. Any record he did, he wanted the thing to be No. 1. He was hurt, and he came back with a vengeance.

Did you like Michael?
Yeah. Mike came to my house in Brooklyn. I put on the CD -- this was [1995's] HIStory -- and he said, "Pick any song you want to direct." So I picked "Stranger in Moscow." He said, "No, that's not the one you want! You want to do 'They Don't Care About Us.' " (Laughs.) Michael was slick.

When Michael was making Off the Wall, a lot of people thought his career was over, didn't they?
There were doubts. But Michael never doubted *himself. He just knew he had been given the freedom to do his thing. And to do that, he and his brothers first had to get out of a Motown contract. And then he had to step away from his brothers, too. Family is a cross to bear.

In the movie, you don't address Michael's accusation that his dad, Joe, was physically abusive. Why not?
Here's the thing, and I appreciate your *question: So many people focus on the other stuff. We wanted to focus on the music. People might say that's a cop-out. I don't care. Personally, I'm not going to say Joe Jackson was a bad guy. Have you ever been to the Jacksons' house in Gary, Indiana? There were nine kids sleeping on top of each other. He saw talent in his kids, and he made it work. Nowadays, if you hit your kid, you're going to jail. Back then, if you messed around -- I'm just talking for black folks -- you got hit. I don't think children should be beat, but sometimes, upside the head? (Shrugs.) Maybe I'm old-fashioned. And that house in Gary? That should be a national landmark. Alright, President Obama. You've got one year left. (Laughs.)

It seems like Joe was simultaneously the best artist manager of all time and the worst.
Joe's OK in my book. Of course, he wasn't my father! (Laughs.)

Michael's brothers Jackie and Marlon, who have good relationships with John Branca and John McClain, the executors of Jackson's estate, are in the film. But Janet, Jermaine and Randy, who have denounced the executors, are not in it. Why?
They didn't want to be a part of it. It's no secret that there's tension between [parts of] the family and the estate. Any time money's involved, there's going to be static.

There's one thing about your *documentary that isn't great: the title. Why such a *cumbersome title?
Wasn't me.

Was the title dictated to you by the estate?
It wasn't me. (Laughs.) Man, I should be running for office right now. That was a true politician's answer, wasn't it? Give me Iowa!

This is your second Jackson documentary -- the first was Bad 25. Do you want to do another one?
I'd really like to do a documentary about Thriller. I've let the estate know, but I've not been given the job yet.

Do you think the success of Thriller was bad for Michael's music? After that, he was *obsessed with topping it.
Thriller became a monster on his back. Every record after that, he was trying to sell more records. I think there's a cost for that.

http://www.billboard.com/articles/n...-lee-michael-jackson-documentary-donald-trump
Click to expand...

Honestly, I don't like this interview all that much.
 
OnirMJ said:
^^I actually think HIStory documentary would be most interesting to watch and that it would be perfect for Spike Lee.
Click to expand...

He can be used as interview-partner in this documantation. I think a change in the director must not be bad. The guy who made the Immortal-docu for exmaple did a really good job.
 
I liked the interview, but it made me think-How ironic and sad that Randy and Janet are the two helping Michael with DSTYGE and yet they have no part in this celebration.
Ironic and sad.

And black folks aren't the only people who beat their kids in the 60s and 70s. Just saying.
 
barbee0715 said:
I liked the interview, but it made me think-How ironic and sad that Randy and Janet are the two helping Michael with DSTYGE and yet they have no part in this celebration.
Ironic and sad.

And black folks aren't the only people who beat their kids in the 60s and 70s. Just saying.
Click to expand...

A lot of Spike Lee's work tends to be more black culture orientated, but here I suppose he's only talking from his standpoint? Dunno.
 
just so you know

gives fans a chance to get creative with Michael’s original concept for the album artwork. (You’ll see when you get it!)
Click to expand...

According to Estate's statement it seems like the chalk outline/ chalk was Michael's original concept for the album artwork.

So if that's the case, are you criticizing the Estate release or mocking Michael's idea?

While it's understandable not everyone would like every idea (regardless of whose idea it was) cool your jets and kindly stop the childish talks (ex: used condom). Surely adults can express themselves better, no? Let's have a little more class.
 
Last edited:
Gatesy2006 said:
You'd imagine Spike would like to do something relating to HIStory considering he directed TDCAU at the time.
Click to expand...

He only likes "black" michael hence ignoring post bad. Guess he couldnt resist with tdcau
 
ivy said:
just so you know



According to Estate's statement it seems like the chalk outline/ chalk was Michael's original concept for the album artwork.

So if that's the case, are you criticizing the Estate release or mocking Michael's idea?

While it's understandable not everyone would like every idea (regardless of whose idea it was) cool your jets and kindly stop the childish talks (ex: used condom). Surely adults can express themselves better, no? Let's have a little more class.
Click to expand...

Was sending out chalk his idea too :p ? Joking aside, if the chalk outline was Mike's original idea, then I'm sorry but I personally don't like it? And I'm sorry if it's offensive to anyone, but whether it be the estate or Michael himself, as for the chalk itself, I could except it if the "deluxe" edition contained anything remotely deluxe about it? But, as far as I can tell, it includes a documentary with missing important people because everyone is fighting (which is unfortunate but not the estate or Spike's fault and casual watchers probably won't notice), an OTW album with absolutely nothing additional about it, and a booklet. To me, there isn't anything deluxe about it?
 
From an interview that mentions the original album concept:


Despite having worked with a multitude of celebrities as both a designer and photographer, Salisbury had never worked with Michael Jackson but after seeing him in the movie, The Wiz, he contacted his agent. "I knew his agent and called him to say that Michael Jackson was going to be the biggest star ever and I would be anxious to work on something with him," said Salisbury. "Michael's agent called me in to his office and showed me an album cover mock up for his solo album and asked me what I thought. I told him that it looked like a cheap ad for the children's department at Macy's. 'I know,' he said. 'It sucks.' I thought Michael Jackson had the potential to be huge--the biggest, so I suggested he let me develop some ideas."

Salisbury returned to the agent's office with several variations of his concept, which only seemed to perplex the agent. "I explained that I was creating a metaphor. I told him that Michael was just a kid out from under his dad so I think the album cover should make a statement that his solo debut is as big as Sinatra coming on stage in Vegas."

According to Salisbury, at that time, young Michael was gangly and had an Afro. "I explained the concept by pointing to the fashion type drawing and saying, I put him in a tuxedo. That says big deal!"

"The agent hemmed and hawed and was just about to dismiss the whole nutty idea when a little, high-pitched voice softly squeaked, 'I like it,' and Michael stepped out from behind the drape covering the large office window. 'Let's just do it,' he said, and so we did," explained Salisbury.

Jackson liked everything about Salisbury's concept from the get-go and only requested one change. "'I want to wear white socks,' Michael whispered to me. They have to be über socks then…really glamorous," remembered Salisbury.
Click to expand...

http://www.prweb.com/releases/michael/jackson/prweb2612244.htm

Also:

And until an interview I did after Michael’s passing, one focused on my involvement in creating his look and the cover of Off the Wall, I never understood exactly what I didn’t like about the title lettering. Looking at the CD back cover there was another – newer – photo of Michael, still in a tux but in front of a faux brick wall. He is holding a pre-school style chalk holder with a big piece of chalk in it as he affected a visibly awkward “Michael Jackson pose.”


Kindergarten chalk? Awkward pose?

Kindergarten chalk lettering on the original Off the Wall cover of mine? That’s what bothered me: another denial that Michael Jackson was not a child but a major entertainer.

Discussing this with Richard Lecocq I emphasized that I felt this lettering was as big a mistake as the printing quality of the original cover…and I wanted to redesign that title lettering in present time, for Michael Jackson KING.

So I decided I would. The kiddie school chalk was infantile and wrong but what would work? Graffiti? Wrong message at the time.
Click to expand...

http://www.onehellofaneye.com/tag/off-the-wall/

I should add that I thought that the purpose of the documentary was to show Michael becoming a grown-up independent solo artist, so the chalk seems about as relevant to the CD/DVD package as , well, a plastic fork.....

But I am sure that the marketing men are laughing at me as I write, because the purpose of any marketing ploy is to get the potential customer to talk about the product...so it worked...
 
Last edited:
barbee0715 said:
I liked the interview, but it made me think-How ironic and sad that Randy and Janet are the two helping Michael with DSTYGE and yet they have no part in this celebration.
Ironic and sad.

And black folks aren't the only people who beat their kids in the 60s and 70s. Just saying.
Click to expand...

Yeah, white people beat the shit of their kids too. But you have to understand, that to many blacks, beating kids is just as much a cultural thing as it is a form of obedience.

ivy said:
just so you know



According to Estate's statement it seems like the chalk outline/ chalk was Michael's original concept for the album artwork.

So if that's the case, are you criticizing the Estate release or mocking Michael's idea?

While it's understandable not everyone would like every idea (regardless of whose idea it was) cool your jets and kindly stop the childish talks (ex: used condom). Surely adults can express themselves better, no? Let's have a little more class.
Click to expand...

What's the use of a damn chalk when laying dormant are vital sketches, blue prints and layouts of one of the most influential pop albums of all time and arguably the greatest disco/contemporary R'n'B album ever?

elusive moonwalker said:
He only likes "black" michael hence ignoring post bad. Guess he couldnt resist with tdcau
Click to expand...

Where'd you get this from? Don't try to start WW3!

Michaels Lover said:
wow...is this true? then screw him, nobody should watch his shitty documentaries then
Click to expand...

NO! Don't believe such a slanderous and unsubstantiated comment.
 
Last edited:
elusive moonwalker said:
He only likes "black" michael hence ignoring post bad. Guess he couldnt resist with tdcau
Click to expand...
not to be rude, but I think you should say this is your opinion. Not fact.

Lee might be a fan of the musicality of the Jackson 5 days/Quincy era; however based on his own interest in social and racial issues and his own movies that resulted from that, he'd be the perfect choice to delve into this Dangerous/History aspect of Michael's life.
 
Where'd you get this from? Don't try to start WW3!
----------
Comments he made about mj after 2009 happened, turned me right off him left a very bad taste in my mouth and showed to me that behind the image of him being i dunno how you would say it. say black power guy with his projects /civil rights types of films. That when it came to mj hes no different than all the rest. thought he would be more inteligent than to be sucked in by the white media agenda but he fell for the very thing he claims to stand against.

And imo why he wont touch anything post bad. Id love to be proved wrong but..
 
not to be rude, but I think you should say this is your opinion. Not fact.
-------------

I would think we all realise things posted during discussions are peoples opinions. I can only base it off his comments about michaels skin which certainly gives the impression he has a problem with mj from say post bad
 
Elusive Moonwalker, you are being decitful because out of Spike's own mouth, he said that MJ's music got better after Thriller from 17:27-17:37:


So Elusive, please explain how you came to this conclusion, please?
 
Last edited:
what did he say about Michael?
his skin was already light during bad though...
 
Psychoniff said:
Yeah, white people beat the shit of their kids too. But you have to understand, that to many blacks, beating kids is just as much a cultural thing as it is a form of obedience.
Click to expand...
sorry for two posts in a row but just saw Psychonifs answer. It didn't really occur to me that it was a cultural thing but maybe so. That would make sense bc I've heard this often like being black is an explanation for beatings. Not just with Michael's family.

I just remember my little brother being torn up with a belt and paddling in schools and I figured it was a holdover from the depression era. Most of our parents and adults in our world were born at that time. "Spare the rod, spoil the child."
 
Psychoniff said:
Elusive Moonwalker, you are being decitful because out of Spike's own mouth, he said that MJ's music got better after Thriller:


So Elusive, please explain how you came to this conclusion, please?
Click to expand...

thanks...listening to it now
 
^^For blacks (paticularly in the Americas) it goes back to slavery and Jim Crow, the wippings, the branding irons and nooses all reminding them of the harsh brutality of the times.
 
Last edited:
As i said i would loved to be proved wrong but as been said in other articles from what we know now he wont do any other docs post bad . Im not saying lee doesnt like any music after thriller (i should hope he likes tdcau!?) so that clip isnt really relevent to the original discussion which was about why post bad/quincy seems to be ignored or get little recogonition and hence no documentry.

Thats why i made the comment i did based on what lee said about mj after june 09.to me theres a corralation between spikes problem with mj post bad and sticking to doing docus about mj when he was cool normal etc etc. Of course theres other factors such as what the estate want to do and as talked about before interms of the dismissal of post bad releases interms of mjs legacy but as i said id love to be proved wrong but id be surprised if i were
 
One of the most important and influential albums of pop culture gets a "Deluxe" release and comes with nothing more than a piece of chalk!! I'm sorry, it's rediculious and a little insulting. I appologise for not being a five year old.

I look forward to the documentary for any MJ footage but Spike Lee may as well have lay down and rolled over in terms of that interview!
 
TinnyandOdd said:
if the chalk outline was Mike's original idea, then I'm sorry but I personally don't like it? And I'm sorry if it's offensive to anyone, but whether it be the estate or Michael himself, as for the chalk itself
Click to expand...

Like I said it's okay if people don't like an idea regardless of the source of the idea. My issue was with the rather crass expressions and mockery. You are totally fine.

myosotis said:
I should add that I thought that the purpose of the documentary was to show Michael becoming a grown-up independent solo artist, so the chalk seems about as relevant to the CD/DVD package as , well, a plastic fork.....
Click to expand...

I don't get your point. Both quotes you posted proves it was indeed MJ's idea and other people thought it was childish. You can like it, hate it, love it, think it's childish an so on but it's clearly relevant. In other words it's not something Estate made it up on their own now, it has a history. Bad 25 also included the original artwork. So perhaps it's me but I fail to see the problem here. They included the original artwork. Love it or hate it but that's all they did.
 
I'm going to buy it for the chalk. and yeah, I'm 5 years old :cheeky:
 
I beg to differ on the album art as it turned out. I love the picture of him holding the chalk holder.
I don't mind a piece of chalk either.

My only gripe is that I want to buy a Triumph Tour and the doc as a stand alone. I have so many copies of the album already.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top