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Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

So I haven't watch it, its on right now here in the UK isn't it? I just overheard it. My flatmate is watching with the volume way up (they're partially deaf) so I caught some of Wade's voice. Sounded like he was pretending to cry :puke: ARRRRRGGHH..f*** this. This is the most horrible thing.

Anyway I just looked on twitter and its not even trending? Last night 'leaving neverland' was trending as was 'michael jackson'. Looking around social media, een in the actual media I feel like our side is getting more attention. I've noticed some people pipe up on my facebook saying they don't believe it. I'm still suprised by Piers Morgan too, assuming he hasn't flipped on us?
 
magic said:
Can somebody explain this. These court documents are so hard to read cause of the language. Too still and official.
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Same here. I looked it up on Google for a definition but I still don't really know at all. Except that he clearly had a motive to sue for money and not justice, like they keep blabbing on about.
 
Lightbringer said:
Dan Reed wants to become RICH of Michael Jackson obviously. And its PERSONAL for him now, he has declared war against MJ fans and MJ. He berated Piers Morgan for asking him questions on the show yesterday. The guys is ABSOLUTE TRASH!

I can see Arvizo seeing the $$$ since anyone can say or do anything and just CASH IN, nobody will question them!
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That guy gives me creepy vibes. His arrogance and defiance in my opinion is an indication that someone powerful is backing him up

He is clearly advocating pedophilia and trying subliminally to desensitize the audience to the idea that there is nothing wrong in a relationship between an adult and an underage.
I find this disgusting and alarming.
 
AG5050 said:
Thanks, I get that and have listened to and shared that interview. Im just confused as to whether the lawsuits were thrown out because they were believed to be false or because too much time has passed? Surely its either one or the other, im seeing both reasons thrown around so just trying to work out which is true.
Neither sheds any doubt over whether he is telling the truth or not for me, I just don't want to spread the wrong information.
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They were thrown out because too much time had passed.
Wade was trying to be smart and claim he didn't know The Estate existed in 2013, but that was proven a lie, as he spoke to the estate in 2011 already.
 
Also..Dan Reed wanting to carry on to Jordy and Gavin. What is the likelihood of that happening?? God I don't even wanna think about that.
 
I am in dilemma. I had a page about Michael in Latvian site similar to Facebook. I haven't written anything there for years. But now I kind a want to gather all the information and translate pointing out that they are lying. But I don't think if I should do it cause there is not that much written about it in our media. Ppl may not be aware about such documentary at all and I don't want to promote the documentary.
 
Robbsaber01 said:
Agreed. IMO its clear that very powerful people wanted to turn the public against him. Mj was too powerful in terms of his influence, music, and popularity. I always think of the Superbowl performance (especially heal the world) where he basically showed the biggest audience in the world about world peace and what it could be. IMO some powerful people didn't like that message and what he stood for. They couldn't control him so they chose to destroy him.
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This is one of several reasons why MJ was deemed a thorny personality.
He did not fit a certain global agenda that is underway.

The get a bigger picture, i urge the fans to research about the Zionist movement/Kazharian mafia / Talmudism.
Those are the group of people Michael is referring to in "They Don't Care about Us"

As Michael said, you ll start to realise that history taught in schools is a big LIE and they keep lying to us.
 
I'm still on the fence if Michael is innocent or guilty. Obviously I'd like to think he's innocent, but with the lack of response from the estate, it's not looking good.
 
So part 2 just aired in the UK. It was a much tougher watch than part 1. The end half with the families talking and crying was incredibly convincing. I can see why most of the general public and also some fans are starting to doubt Michaels innocence.
For me, knowing everything else that I know outside of the documentary I just can't buy into it enough to be convinced it really happened.
Unfortunately I think most people will be and Michaels legacy will be forever tarnished/destroyed by this unless the estate come out with something really powerful that everyones gets to see.

I think the next few months will be interesting, usually in these types of scenarios once people go public like this there are FLOODS of other victims that come forward. I'll be incredibly telling to see what happens next in that regards and what happens with Wade & James pursuing the appeal on their lawsuit.

I have exhausted all the energy on this that I have for now trying to persuade people of Michaels innocence. My response to people who challenge me now is that if they believe it to be true, and hypothetically if it was true then Michael has already paid for what he allegedly did. He never recovered from the allegations, they ruined his life and started a chain reaction of events that led to his untimely death. It's time to let this go and let the man rest in peace regardless of which 'side' we believe.
 
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Thriller_MJ said:
I'm still on the fence if Michael is innocent or guilty. Obviously I'd like to think he's innocent, but with the lack of response from the estate, it's not looking good.
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The estate have responded constantly with statements and lawsuits, what are you talking about?
 
AG5050 said:
The estate have responded constantly with statements and lawsuits, what are you talking about?
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It's still not enough. Lawsuits take time. There really should have been a defence set up right from the start. Sorry but I think the damage has already been done.
 
Thriller_MJ said:
It's still not enough. Lawsuits take time. There really should have been a defence set up right from the start. Sorry but I think the damage has already been done.
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The damage has been done but I don't see how what you're saying influences your opinion on Michaels guilt?
 
Blondie said:
So I haven't watch it, its on right now here in the UK isn't it? I just overheard it. My flatmate is watching with the volume way up (they're partially deaf) so I caught some of Wade's voice. Sounded like he was pretending to cry :puke: ARRRRRGGHH..f*** this. This is the most horrible thing.

Anyway I just looked on twitter and its not even trending? Last night 'leaving neverland' was trending as was 'michael jackson'. Looking around social media, een in the actual media I feel like our side is getting more attention. I've noticed some people pipe up on my facebook saying they don't believe it. I'm still suprised by Piers Morgan too, assuming he hasn't flipped on us?
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From what I read today here he was on Twitter still on our side. But I am careful about him. Sure he did a great job grilling Dan, but it's clear that he isn't in favor of MJ either. And I guess that's OK, as long as they tries to get real news out of people, facts, the truth. I don't like how he seemed to agree with the women that Wade and James appeared very credible and emotional in the mockumentary.

And even though he said that the sleepovers was mostly with boys (which is just weird to say, cause how would he know if only boys slept in his room? Typical ways of the media ) he did say he's just not sure if he was a pedophile, it's clear that Piers was very unsure of that. But I understood from people here that he used to talk crap about Michael, so it's interesting that of all people he would grill Dan so much.

I DO love the video though, can't deny that.
 
AG5050 said:
So part 2 just aired in the UK. It was a much tougher watch than part 1. The end half with the families talking and crying was incredibly convincing. I can see why most of the general public and also some fans are starting to doubt Michaels innocence.
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My colleague has watched it and I just got a text from her, She doesn't believe them.

She is not a fan, she likes some songs, but that is it.
 
pierpinto1 said:
My colleague has watched it and I just got a text from her, She doesn't believe them.

She is not a fan, she likes some songs, but that is it.
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Good to hear. And what that other poster says isn't true, it's definitely not most of the general public that seems to believe them. So far it's been really mixed and I see tons of people that have finally woken up.
 
Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
From what I read today here he was on Twitter still on our side. But I am careful about him. Sure he did a great job grilling Dan, but it's clear that he isn't in favor of MJ either. And I guess that's OK, as long as they tries to get real news out of people, facts, the truth. I don't like how he seemed to agree with the women that Wade and James appeared very credible and emotional in the mockumentary.

And even though he said that the sleepovers was mostly with boys (which is just weird to say, cause how would he know if only boys slept in his room?) he did say he's just not sure if he was a pedophile, it's clear that Piers was very unsure of that. But I understood from people here that he used to talk crap about Michael, so it's interesting that of all people he would grill Dan so much.

I DO love the video though, can't deny that.
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It's important to remember that Piers stance is not in defence of Michael or in belief of his innocence (although I do get the impression he believes Michael is innocent). He is trying very hard to challenge the credibility of Wade & James and thinks that is wrong for people to assume they are telling the truth and assume guilt on Michaels behalf when there is such reason for doubt over their testimony.
To be honest I think his stance is great for public influence and opinion as it comes across as more credible and rational than what most people will perceive as 'deluded' fans who will argue his innocence no matter what.
 
AG5050 said:
The damage has been done but I don't see how what you're saying influences your opinion on Michaels guilt?
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I said earlier I am on the fence, i haven't made an opinion on it yet. Unless the estate comes out with something really big about it then I'll always be on the fence. Let's be real. A grown man sharing his bed with children who aren't members of his family is bound to raise concerns, which it is, it doesn't matter if it is Michael Jackson or Charles Manson. None of us know what happened, we weren't there, but to publicly come out and say you share your bed with pre pubsent children? Come on. Obviously there is gonna be a backlash over it. I'm not naive. If Michael is indeed found guilty and solild evidence is presented people will still defend MJ.
 
Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
Good to hear. And what that other poster says isn't true, it's definitely not most of the general public that seems to believe them. So far it's been really mixed and I see tons of people that have finally woken up.
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Where you talking about my post? If so thats great that people are seeing more of a mixed reaction. Unfortunately with part 2 going out this evening I have received a lot of messages from people I know who have been totally convinced by it so I am just speaking from my own experience. Its very reaussuring to hear of other people hearing other impartial people who don't believe the documentary.
 
Albums are on the rise on ITUNES pretty much everywhere, US and the UK included.
This is the general public downloading Michael's music, definitely not the hard core fans.
 
Not sure if this is old news or not as this thread grows 4 or 5 pages longer each time I come on here, but did anyone see T.I.'s comments in support of MJ?
 
Thriller_MJ said:
I'm still on the fence if Michael is innocent or guilty. Obviously I'd like to think he's innocent, but with the lack of response from the estate, it's not looking good.
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What the Estate has to do with what you believe in? Why do you need response from the Estate if you already know they were caught lying and so many ppl who were with him back them denies it.
 
Thriller_MJ said:
I said earlier I am on the fence, i haven't made an opinion on it yet. Unless the estate comes out with something really big about it then I'll always be on the fence. Let's be real. A grown man sharing his bed with children who aren't members of his family is bound to raise concerns, which it is, it doesn't matter if it is Michael Jackson or Charles Manson. None of us know what happened, we weren't there, but to publicly come out and say you share your bed with pre pubsent children? Come on. Obviously there is gonna be a backlash over it. I'm not naive. If Michael is indeed found guilty and solild evidence is presented people will still defend MJ.
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They are all fair points, I just still don't quite understand how you feel the estates actions, or lack off, are influencing your opinion. We have all the facts/evidence/testimony that we will probably ever get, its available to those who want to look for it. I don't see that the estate can do anything to persuade you either way.

And I agree completely that as passionately as we all feel none of us can claim to know for 100% either way. All we can do is come to the conclusion we find most believable based on the evidence and facts that we have, that conclusion won't be the same for each person as we are now seeing on this forum over the past few days.

Can I ask how long you have been on the fence? The facts you mention that are why you are on the fence (Michael sharing his bed/room with young boys etc) has been widely known and scrutinised since the early 90s, have you been unsure this whole time or is it the documentary and Wade & James allegations specifically that have led you to feel on the fence?
 
magic said:
What the Estate has to do with what you believe in? Why do you need response from the Estate if you already know they were caught lying and so many ppl who were with him back them denies it.
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Cause the estate are the official representation of Michael, in his death. They're not doing nearly enough. You would think they would come out guns blazing at this kind of thing, but they're not. It's simply not good enough. And for them to rely on the fans as "front line" during this whole thing, well, that just shows there lack of defence for Michael. They don't care.
 
Something that was coming to my head about that "happy birthday" message to Wade.. we know that it was filmed months before his birthday and we've discussed this.. But also, he says "Little One" in it.. So Michael had given him a nick name before knowing him? Lets just say he filmed a message for him months before his Bday.. the nick name? I think that makes it even clearer that message was not really for him or it is a message for multiple people.. Someone else also called 'little one'.
 
Thriller_MJ said:
I said earlier I am on the fence, i haven't made an opinion on it yet. Unless the estate comes out with something really big about it then I'll always be on the fence. Let's be real. A grown man sharing his bed with children who aren't members of his family is bound to raise concerns, which it is, it doesn't matter if it is Michael Jackson or Charles Manson. None of us know what happened, we weren't there, but to publicly come out and say you share your bed with pre pubsent children? Come on. Obviously there is gonna be a backlash over it. I'm not naive. If Michael is indeed found guilty and solild evidence is presented people will still defend MJ.
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Excuse me, but the argument that we were not there is pretty lame.
If we go by this logic, everyone can be suspected of being a pedophile or whatever you want to accuse someone of.

Look at the bigger picture, at the facts (plenty of them have been presented by dedicated fans on the Net).

After all the facts that has been debunked about these scumbags, should I believe them because they are graphic in a footage?

Sorry, but personally I don't buy it at all.
 
Thriller_MJ said:
Cause the estate are the official representation of Michael, in his death. They're not doing nearly enough. You would think they would come out guns blazing at this kind of thing, but they're not. It's simply not good enough. And for them to rely on the fans as "front line" during this whole thing, well, that just shows there lack of defence for Michael. They don't care.
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Again, the point that is trying to be made isn't whether the estates actions are enough, I think most on here believe they are not. It's why the estates actions are influencing your opinion on Michaels guilt or innocence. What do you believe they can do or say to persuade you he is innocent that we don't already know about? Do you think they are sitting on evidence?
 
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