Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

As much as I am disappointed that some celebrities have been silent. I am FURIOUS with celebrities who have decided that they are to publicly condemn Michael. Drake and John Legend are officially 'cancelled' for me.
 
Seriously though, How long can the media and the general public keep pretending that Michael Jackson wasn't the most influential musician of all time? Like it's just that easy to bury his legacy and write him off as a minor footnote in music history. Without him, there there is a whole slew of people in the industry who wouldn't have made it where they are today without his influence. The recording industry in general benefited MASSIVELY from his success after Thriller, and to this day there still hasn't been anyone who has come close to him in terms of popularity, record sales, and overall talent.

This is what's so aggravating to me about this ****ing documentary, That these 2 ***holes along with Dan Reed and the media thinks they can just trample all over a dead man and crap all over his legacy with no consequence, throw some baseless accusations around with zero actual evidence and hope that the public dismisses him entirely just like that.

You cannot Cancel Michael Jackson, it just doesn't work like that.
 
Hi folks.

Leaving neverland is being broacasted in Sweden this week. Thats why I have not made a single post here in days, because I am spending all my awake time on facebook where swedish newspapers are posting Leaving Neverland articles. Its really really bad. An absolute trainwreck!

Just a question. There is a video being posted by swedish average people where MJ buys a wedding ring.

I had not seen that before and I just want to asked a few questions.

1. How long has this video been known of? Is it new or has it been out since 10 years?
2. What date is the video from?
3. Is James Safechuck in the video or is it some other boy?

Any details about the video would greatly appreciated.


Note: If Michael bought a ring it no proof of anything anyway, since Michael could have bought it for anyone, and moreso EVEN if it was for Safechuck he could have given it to him without ANY WEDDING UPCMING as MJ bought tons of stuff to loads of people.

IMPORTANT: I am not attacking Michael over this, I just want to know all the info, so I know what to say when people bring this up! Thank you very much in advance!
 
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Don't get panicked. In the news report it states that Michael indeed went shopping at a jewelry store but went shopping to a nearby gift shop as well. In the footage from inside the store you can clearly see that it has toys displayed and lots of other things. In addition Liza Minelli had then stated that Michael had an affair with a woman and he was going to buy rings and supposedly propose to her. One way or another why is it a crime for a person to go shopping for jewelry or whatever and give it to his close ones? Exaggeration has gone over the top concerning Michael. If you hear the Glenda tapes it's discussed that Michael was to be married with a woman. Haters will always be haters even if you bring the false accusers in front of them admitting their false accusations!
 
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The News Media’s Handling of Leaving Neverland Proves Just How Broken the Entire Industry Really Is
by John Ziegler | Mar 12th, 2019, 11:55 am 147


A week ago, when I first watched HBO’s highly controversial film Leaving Neverland, I purposely did so without refreshing my recollection on the facts regarding the allegations of child sex abuse against Michael Jackson from many years ago. I wanted to see the movie in much the same way that the average viewer did.

Like most people who viewed it, I was emotionally impacted by the horrific nature of the alleged abuse, but was eventually turned off by the obvious unfairness of allowing two unverified accusers being allowed four hours, with the support of tremendously manipulative production elements, to make un-scrutinized claims against an un-convicted dead man (who, it should also be noted, paid $20 million to a 13-year-old accuser in the 1990s as part of a settlement out of court). As someone who had long suspected Michael Jackson was likely guilty of child abuse, but whose own coverage of his 2005 trial as a Los Angeles talk show host made me actually start to doubt that presumption, the whole thing was conflicting.

Since I absolutely despise that I have somehow become known as someone who is willing to defend those accused of sex abuse even though we live in an era where such an act, regardless of the facts of the particular situation, makes you automatically a “bad” person, I was extremely hesitant to delve further into the matter. However, even my initial evaluation of the voluminous record involving the movie’s two stars, Wade Robson and James Safechuck, made it very clear that the movie was a journalistic travesty, and that someone should be willing to take a stand against the prevailing narrative on behalf of truth and fairness.

As is always the case, before I eventually dove in headfirst, I engaged in extensive research on these claims, and spoke to several people with direct knowledge of the other side of the story. I did lengthy in-person interviews with two key members of the Jackson family. One of them, Brandi Jackson, had dated Robson throughout their entire teenage years, including during the time when the abuse was allegedly occurring.

One of the many difficulties in telling a version of events which is contradictory to someone the news media — as opposed to the courts — has determined is a “sex abuse victim” (especially those who, like Robson and Safechuck, have been sanctified by Oprah Winfrey on HBO) is that, particularly post #MeToo, no one data point can ever been seen as a “smoking gun” that their allegation is false. However, when viewed in the full context of Robson’s already suspect narrative, I strongly believe that Brandi’s version of events comes as close as possible to being just that (as do many other non-Jackson fans who have spent the time to hear her, and her cousin Taj, out).

In a remotely rational world, where the news media still even plausibly functioned as a source of truth, and where basic fairness still had any real currency, Brandi would have immediately been invited on multiple major television news outlets (heck, her story even involves a normally irresistible tidbit about Robson cheating on her with Britney Spears, thus causing her infamous breakup with Justin Timberlake). However, to the mild surprise of even a grizzled media cynic like me, that did not happen.

Even before our interview, multiple members of the Jackson family told me that they felt like the major news media was purposely censoring Brandi’s explosive story. I told them that it was possible that the media just may not fully understand the significance what she has to say (none of which, it should be noted, has never been contradicted at all by Robson, or anyone else), but I now must conclude that I was being naïve.

To be clear, I am not alleging some sort of anti-Jackson conspiracy, but actually something far more treacherous than that. Based on the news media’s unwillingness to even give Brandi a voice, it is now abundantly obvious that a new media rule has been created that no one, no matter how credible, unless they are huge celebrity, is allowed to directly contradict the veracity of someone the media is invested in as a “victim,” no matter how lacking in credibility that allegation is (and to be clear, books could easily be written on why the current story of Robson, who enthusiastically testified as Jackson’s first witness at his criminal trial, is not to be believed).

Within the news media, there is just far too much fear/risk, and not nearly courage/reward. So, here is what really happened in this situation…

Michael Jackson has always been suspected of being capable of literally anything because of his obvious extreme weirdness and seemingly inappropriate attachments to young boys. A filmmaker with an obvious agenda interviewed two middle-aged men for several days and ignored the many problems with their stories (for the record, a close look at the movie discredits huge chunks of Safechuck’s narrative as well, especially with regard to the real circumstances surrounding him not testifying at Jackson’s criminal trial), using about the first three hours to get his audience emotionally invested in his subjects, which was very easy given the widely-held suspicions about Jackson, who is no longer around to defend himself.

Not being armed with even the basic facts (inexplicably, and quite tellingly, Brandi Jackson is not even mentioned), the audience, including the media, was easily manipulated into being able to disregard even the biggest holes in their stories, and to gladly accept even the most bizarre rationalizations for their nonsensical actions. Once Oprah, an abuse victim herself, effectively validated their stories (even as Safechuck, who barely participated in the post-movie interview, sweated noticeably right in front of her), the preferred narrative was set, and nothing would then be allowed to credibly contradict it.

It needs to at least be mentioned that the most bizarre aspect of the news media embracing this movie is, because of the narrative used to explain why the accusers didn’t realize they were abused much sooner, it actually has elements which are arguably PRO pedophilia. This “we didn’t think sex abuse was bad” explanation could have been simply a result of the accusers having to craft their stories to escape statute of limitations problems in their lawsuit against the Jackson estate.

Regardless, there is no need to give the Jackson family much of a chance to respond — or even see the movie before it came out — because, after all, we now know for sure that they are just part of an evil machine which is knowingly covering up for a dead pedophile, all in a desperate attempt to protect the value of the pop superstar’s estate. Gee, what could possibly go wrong with that sort of thinking, especially since Jackson was never convicted, or even found liable, in a court of law?!

Part of my naïveté here was that I stupidly thought the Jussie Smollett fake hate-crime fiasco would have, at least for a few months, made the news media a little more hesitant to blindly buy into outlandish stories with no proof and a clear financial motive. Obviously, that has not happened, and it is because the modern news media, for many reasons, is now completely, irreparably, and dangerously broken.

John Ziegler is a senior columnist for Mediaite. He hosts a weekly podcast focusing on news media issues and is documentary filmmaker. You can follow him on Twitter at @ZigManFreud or email him at johnz@mediaite.com



https://www.mediaite.com/columnists...xJHZBnnlGhYx14FKdny_W8IeCwlXozUQop7vEtNeanBZU
 
Oh wow, this is amazing. I've been banned from the place until March 19. All I did was give facts. The Thomson article and the Razorfist video. I didn't call anyone names, I didn't start any fights, I merely asked people to do some fact checking. This is the ban message


You have been banned for the following reason: User Banned (Duration Pending): Inflammatory dismissal of sexual abuse allegations;

"Inflammatory dismissal" without being inflammatory? This is starting to sound like some dystopian novel shit.
 
I asked Karen Faye about it

  • Karen Faye&#8207; @wingheart <small class="time"> 18 </small>




    Michael went out with me in this exact disguise down Melrose in LA. Shop owners thought he was a thief and was followed closely by security...until he pulled out his credit card. Then they freaked out and apologized to know how horribly they treated him.

    I was not with him on that shopping excursion. Michael loved shopping. He loved looking around. He took me on quite a few. If you would dare say you liked something...he would buy it for you. He gifted me with art work, books, jewelry, shoes, CD&#8217;s, etc. over the years.
    2764.png
    1f494.png



    I wasn&#8217;t there. Michael loved shopping and took friends. MJ would take me along shopping many times. If I mentioned I liked something, he would buy it for me.
    MJHellas @MJHellas
    <s>@</s>wingheart Karen can you share any information about the ring that J.S. claims he was given by Michael? Can you recognize the kid in the video: https://youtu.be/RV7-HDO5zb0 if you know anything about the shopping please tell us so we can confront further false claims about it.












 
Forgive me if this has been addressed already, but here's a big issue I have: most people I've encountered who believe the accusations tend to say their main reason for believing it is "but their stories are so detailed!" Is that really the criteria people are going to use when trying to determine whether something is true? Especially given the length of time between Wade originally coming up with this and the making of the documentary, it's really not surprising that the allegations are detailed. Maybe I'm just rambling here (it's late here and I've had a long day), but it just seems odd to me that people would use the amount of detail as the way to determine if a story is true or not.
 
I have to admit, this has been tough. I honestly don't know how fans of Michael Jackson and fans of adequate/investigative journalism weathered 1993 and 2005. I really, truly don't know how you guys did it.

For a bit, I figured this wasn't as bad as I thought. But it's been snow-balling, fast.

For awhile, I saw public opinion on the allegations shift to people in the last decade waking up to the falsehood of it all. Michael Jackson's legacy seemed to be in good shape.

Then, "Leaving Neverland" happened. The build up to the documentary alone was just...brutal. And after all this already - I may have to step away.

I can't listen to Jackson's albums without feeling...just sad, if that makes any sense.

The documentary being aired so much worldwide. Oprah Winfrey, every news outlet, celebrities and the general public has validated, credited and believed these two men 100%. Thus, they've retroactively believed all four allegations.

We don't have the worldwide media on our side. Celebrities aren't on our side. The influencers of pop culture narratives are not on our side.

It's felt like trying to fight the mob. But they've won, honestly. The lies that are made up, misreported and shoveled out to the public is too fast and too much to keep up with. People hear them, buy them and move on. Article after article keeps coming out - too many to combat.

Undoing this tangled web of misinformation will be too much and by the time it's done - the public will have moved on and no longer will care to learn anything new about it. Their conclusion was solidified by this documentary.

And not only have they destroyed Michael Jackson - but the media/public has successfully branded Michael Jackson defenders/fans as "conspiracy nuts", "flat-Earthers of music fandom" and so on. It's definitely sticking. And it's making people not even consider anything other than the narrative.

The lies about Jackson are so ingrained in the public consciousness (now) as being truth, to even question it is now akin to being an anti-vaccine advocate. Alex Jones-ian.

The #MeToo movement didn't help with this situation - it created the perfect storm. The film struck while the iron was hot.

I do believe that Michael Jackson, his music, reputation and legacy is forever ****ed over. Done. Dead.

The media will never undo this. They'll never fix or admit to it. The truth won't prevail on the scale that the lies have.

As a fan, I can't do this. It sucks. But I think I'm out.
 
So.... this prooves that Wade Robson was an Actor since he was a child:


It is an interesting information but I know how haters will turn this arround when we decide to do something with this information to defend Michael:
"Oh thats why Wade could lie to the police so well in 1993 and on the witnessstand in 2005 for Michael".
"Thats why MJ ask him to testefy".... bla bla...

But it is a shows why Wade is called the "Master of Deception" in general that his own mother said she don't know when he is lying and when he is telling the truth.

He practiced and reharsed many years for the role of life:
Playing the now worldwide famous child abuse victim of Michael Jackson in Leaving Neverland to 'win big time" and "get everthing" he "want".
 
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Oh wow, this is amazing. I've been banned from the place until March 19. All I did was give facts. The Thomson article and the Razorfist video. I didn't call anyone names, I didn't start any fights, I merely asked people to do some fact checking. This is the ban message


You have been banned for the following reason: User Banned (Duration Pending): Inflammatory dismissal of sexual abuse allegations;

I could have told you that was going to happened. I'm a poster on ResetEra and any forum about any allegation is a trap. You can have a perfectly reasonable argument about why the allegations may be false and people will report you and get you ban. ResetEra is extremely PC.
 
I do not know if it's nonsense ?? !! What is Janet's story, like she has doubts about her brother???!!!

Why you know that's a tabloid fiction and you believe what they imagine ?
 
Dan Reed is plagiarizing Victor Gutierrez's pro-pedophilia book again in this interview: https://www.hit.com.au/story/leavin...dan-reed-slams-brandi-jackson-s-claims-125583

Dan Reed: “The intense period of Wade's - it's terrible to say it, but - sexual relationship with Michael Jackson was from the age of 7 to the age of 9. That was if you like to begin to use it the dreadful word the 'honeymoon' period, the period when they were really seeing each other a lot.”

Sounds familiar?

Victor Gutierrez: Meanwhile, Jackson and Jordie told June that they wouldn't be able to go, since they both had a cold, and they stayed in the hotel room. According to Jordie, this was an excuse that they had agreed upon so that they could have complete freedom and privacy. "It was fun. I felt very special waiting for the moment of the 'honeymoon', as we called it, when we could be alone."

This is how Dan Reed's mind work: “She's (Brandi) saying they were together for 7 years. Now he met his wife Amanda when he was 19 or I think maybe even younger, 18 or 19. So that would have meant that Brandi was in a sexual relationship with Wade from the age of 12. Really?"

He's trying to discredit Brandi by saying Wade met his wife Amanda when he was 18 or 19 years old, but if anything, if this is true, it only reinforces Brandi's claims that he was cheating on her with multiple women.

MJInnocent;4248846 said:

So, according to Dan Reed: Mike Pesca, host of The Gist, asked director Dan Reed whether the items are “actual Michael Jackson–worn gloves and jackets,” and Reed responded that they’re the real deal. “Of course, it’s all genuine. I verified this with Wade,” he said in an interview. “He’s not gonna go and buy some Michael Jackson memorabilia on eBay and then burn it in front of his little boy. I mean, come on.”

But according to Wade: "The Thriller jacket that I burned in the photos was my custom childhood Thriller jacket that I used to perform in. Those are the images portrayed in Leaving Neverland.”

Hum... Guess someone's memories are evolving again...
 
Did someone know what the name of James Dad is?

He was not in Leaving Neverland.
Maybe we can find his social media accounds and they show a simular lack of support like chantal robsons twitter accound have showed us.....
 
I don't know but if James is a real victim whould you not expect that an very angry father now and in the past whould support James publically and in this documentery?

He admitted in the 1994 testimony that Michael was his friend.
Should he not be very angry that MJ had betrayed him so evil in this high level.
I whould thrown Michael and his lagacy into pices publically when I were in his place.

But when James is not a real victim and MJ was his friend, his concience semes too strong that it does not allow him to support his son puplically in what he is doing now to his former friend.
 
Oh I am very glad that the Michael Jackson Innocent Project have now delated Leaving Neverland from their channel and the Oprah Interview.

Maybe they have seen my posts where I said that this content is not for children and jung MJ fans.

This is the new video from the Michael Jackson Innocent Project:


Its a again a great video esspecially in the last part!!!
 
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Someone said that Oprah really delated all traces from "After Neverland" on her webside and her sozial media accounts!
I guess after the interview she got strong doubts about the crediblity of the accusers.
 
What date and year did Safechuck go public with the abuse?

I cant help you in this but can you help me and copy the original airplane/ hawaii interview of James Lawsuit in this thread or the Leaving Neverland Picture matirial analysis thread?
I want to know if it is the same audio they used in LN.

Did James mention in his Lawsuit all the same occasions in Neverland were MJ should have abused him?

On which date did the robsons met MJ in the recording studio?
 
I still say that James fool will be the first to crack. In the Oprah interview he is sweating like hog. Even in the other interviews, he looks like the "I am really doin this" even swallowing hard and looking side to side.

Imagine James trying to do this on his own, I actually cant. He is so dependant on Wade, constantly looking to him for guidance and then nodding along to confirm that's exactly what hes feeling.
I think you're right and he could crack if on his own. But that's why I'm quite sure he won't be allowed to be on his own anymore by Reed & Robson.

I think it may come a time soon when Jacobshagen will be noticed and then a quick respons from our side would not only block another accusation, but also - if done right - will help us make a hole in the powerful narrative created in LN, that no child can be lying about MJ, unless they are protecting MJ which per definition is a lie.
Jacobshagen is all over the place and can actually play right in our hands and make Robson, Safechuck and Reed very uncomfortable.
It's absolutely true, a fool like him could actually undermine R&S's case and open many people's eyes - wouldn't it be about MJ, when everything is upside down. :/

This is what happens when you dehumanise someone over decades. You can say the most unbelievable B.S ie wedding rings and vows etc and its seen as fact. Anyone else and ppl would be going yeah right with the biggest wtf eye roll
Sadly.
 
I would love that an YouTuber who is not an MJHoroxBeliver whould also constanly report with videos about the issues with Leaving Neverland like Perl Jr.

She puts more holes in the storys of wade and James here:

 
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