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Michaels 90s live performances are overrated

ssj said:
I always wondered why he got back into touring in the first place, since he clearly stated that the BAD Tour would be hist last one. Does anybody know the reason? The new contract with Sony perhaps?
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Marketing strategy? If Michael said BAD was going to be his last tour that would encourage more people to go and buy tickets for their ''last chance'' to see him live.
 
He didn ‘t like touring (his own words) but new albums need to be promoted. You can clearly see the impact of a tour on album sales in the charts… to cut things short he had to tour as it was probably contractual.
 
ssj said:
I always wondered why he got back into touring in the first place, since he clearly stated that the BAD Tour would be hist last one. Does anybody know the reason? The new contract with Sony perhaps?
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Dangerous was solely for Heal the World. Don’t know about history
 
MJ build onto the dance fondation he made in the 70's and 80's

Some of the dancing in HIStory tour is mindblowing - I do agree play-back is a shame, but knowing what we know about MJ's health it's understandable. - I think there would have been more live singing in TII.
 
mike started singing in a very aggressive way in the 80's and that decision worn on his vocal longevity and im sure the bad world tour completely worn his voice,so (thats my theory) he made the decision to use a lot more playback so he can still deliver in the future in the studio.
its crazy that seth riggs didnt stop him from being this aggressive
 
rolerprod said:
mike started singing in a very aggressive way in the 80's and that decision worn on his vocal longevity and im sure the bad world tour completely worn his voice,so (thats my theory) he made the decision to use a lot more playback so he can still deliver in the future in the studio.
its crazy that seth riggs didnt stop him from being this aggressive
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That’s only part of the reason his voice was strained in the 90’s. Life style choices had more to do with it than we will ever know. In the late 90’s and 2000’s he was well past what he once was as far as live singing and dancing at the same time.
 
@Smooth72

I personally think he was already vocally damaged as early as the 90s. His live singing on the dangerous tour sounds desperately out of breath

But remember how good he sounded for Clinton’s gala. That was just one song but it is my pick for most magical Michael Jackson performance. He could pull of intimate performances if he had his mind set on it.
 
I can only say I saw the HIStory Tour live in Amsterdam, and it was exciting and thrilling.

Michael didn't create these performances for YouTube. He created them for a live audience. You should have seen it. It was incredible.
 
On the DWT I thought Michael sounded fine and not out of breath on ISCSLY, SOOML, J5 Medley, Billie Jean, WDAN and Beat It. And the Man In The Mirror adlibs sounded awesome.

WBSS and Human Nature were the only 2 songs where he sounded out of breath to me. Which is strange because those were only the 2nd and 3rd songs in the show. Did Jam really take that much out of him?
 
Piek said:
I can only say I saw the HIStory Tour live in Amsterdam, and it was exciting and thrilling.

Michael didn't create these performances for YouTube. He created them for a live audience. You should have seen it. It was incredible.
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Saw him 3 times on the HIStory tour, best experiences of my life. Best concerts ever!
 
When I saw him on the HIStory tour I was too young to realize it wasn’t live. Also you are into that wild buzz, I never saw 50 000 people together, I never heard a crowd generate that huge noice before. Then you see him playing the crowd in his spacerocket, as a show it worked then. So yeah it was an experience but looking back I feel cheated.
 
analogue said:
On the DWT I thought Michael sounded fine and not out of breath on ISCSLY, SOOML, J5 Medley, Billie Jean, WDAN and Beat It. And the Man In The Mirror adlibs sounded awesome.

WBSS and Human Nature were the only 2 songs where he sounded out of breath to me. Which is strange because those were only the 2nd and 3rd songs in the show. Did Jam really take that much out of him?
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I think the out of breath vocals of WBBS and Human Nature were more due to the headset mic. If Michael had used a normal hand held mic like he used for all the other songs you mentioned, he would have sounded fine. I can understand using headset mic for WBBS, but I find it strange that he used it for Human Nature.
 
filmandmusic said:
When I saw him on the HIStory tour I was too young to realize it wasn’t live. Also you are into that wild buzz, I never saw 50 000 people together, I never heard a crowd generate that huge noice before. Then you see him playing the crowd in his spacerocket, as a show it worked then. So yeah it was an experience but looking back I feel cheated.
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Honestly this does not really make sense to me. - I saw the HIstory birthday concert in Copenhagen and I was only 10 back then. So I was the same as you, not aware of playback.

The concert was never meant to be seen again. Had no concert ever been filmed noone would really know it was playback.

If you enjoy a concert - how can you then many years later feel cheated just because it was playback when you didn't even noticed it. Sounds like you had a great concert, a great experience and enjoyed it.
 
Hess said:
Honestly this does not really make sense to me. - I saw the HIstory birthday concert in Copenhagen and I was only 10 back then. So I was the same as you, not aware of playback.

The concert was never meant to be seen again. Had no concert ever been filmed noone would really know it was playback.

If you enjoy a concert - how can you then many years later feel cheated just because it was playback when you didn't even noticed it. Sounds like you had a great concert, a great experience and enjoyed it.
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Hess said:
Honestly this does not really make sense to me. - I saw the HIstory birthday concert in Copenhagen and I was only 10 back then. So I was the same as you, not aware of playback.

The concert was never meant to be seen again. Had no concert ever been filmed noone would really know it was playback.

If you enjoy a concert - how can you then many years later feel cheated just because it was playback when you didn't even noticed it. Sounds like you had a great concert, a great experience and enjoyed it.
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Well Michael Jackson is fairly being caught red handed lip-synching( cheating) on his fans' money, thanks to the ones who filmed those " concerts "( more like playback marathons).The HisPlayback tour (sorry History) was most likely just a cash grab. Though some shows are good,ngl :0
 
Hess said:
Honestly this does not really make sense to me. - I saw the HIstory birthday concert in Copenhagen and I was only 10 back then. So I was the same as you, not aware of playback.

The concert was never meant to be seen again. Had no concert ever been filmed noone would really know it was playback.

If you enjoy a concert - how can you then many years later feel cheated just because it was playback when you didn't even noticed it. Sounds like you had a great concert, a great experience and enjoyed it.
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Many HIStory Tour concerts were shown on TV so they were meant to be seen again.
 
PurpleThriller said:
Well Michael Jackson is fairly being caught red handed lip-synching( cheating) on his fans' money, thanks to the ones who filmed those " concerts "( more like playback marathons).The HisPlayback tour (sorry History) was most likely just a cash grab. Though some shows are good,ngl :0
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I don't feel cheated at all. I am so happy I went to those concerts, and so thankful that I was lucky to experience him live. and I love the HIStory tour
 
filmandmusic said:
@Smooth72

I personally think he was already vocally damaged as early as the 90s. His live singing on the dangerous tour sounds desperately out of breath

But remember how good he sounded for Clinton’s gala. That was just one song but it is my pick for most magical Michael Jackson performance. He could pull of intimate performances if he had his mind set on it.
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I think that was due to others factors like lung problems and what not and not actually vocal damage because he sounded fine (although sometimes a little bit strained) on IJCSLY and SOOML
 
dam2040 said:
Yeah, sounds like it. You're trying to say he was a scammer and those shows weren't really concerts. Embarrassing.
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Well I have my doubts about Michael Jackson. He wasn't some "Angel" with Beethoven-like musical abilities like some fans claim. Michael had his flaws,and they need to be accepted as flaws ,even by the fan community . Lip-synching is,in my opinion,and not only mine, a cheap way to cheat on your fans. Real artists never lip synch. Thats why I can't consider Justin Bieber or Britney Spears real artists. So if Michael Jackson lip synchs ,at that point hes no better than those lip synchers. I'm not saying History Tour is at the standard of a shitty Bieber show ,History Tour is better than anything Gaga or Bieber can dream of performing. But I just can't stand lip-synching .
But that shouldnt be a problem,since Michael Jackson still danced his a$$ off ,even during the History Tour. In my original post I exagerated,Im sorry for that. He was more coregraphed,but also better at dancing,in some shows,than he ever was before. He evolved as a dancer and some performances look amazingly flawless,dancing-wise . And I give him full credit for still putting on that kind of show at 40,considering he was a pro before he even turned 15. Again Im very sorry,I exagerated too much in the OP.
He sang live during the concerts from 1970 all the way thorugh to the late 80's/early 90's. Bad tour itself was a marathon of killer shows where everything was mostly live apparently,and that tour alone lasted for more than 100 damn shows. Most of his life he sang live in concert,so for sure he wasnt some kind of talentless scammer like Lady Gaga. I exagerated again,sorry.
In conclusion,while Im not mad crazy about everything Jackson has done ,its crystal clear that he desrves the title of K.O.P Sorry for some parts of my O.P that could suggest otherwise ;)
 
filmandmusic said:
When I saw him on the HIStory tour I was too young to realize it wasn’t live. Also you are into that wild buzz, I never saw 50 000 people together, I never heard a crowd generate that huge noice before. Then you see him playing the crowd in his spacerocket, as a show it worked then. So yeah it was an experience but looking back I feel cheated.
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I don't understand this logic to be hoenst. You got to see Michael Jackson live. You saw him sing, dance, perform his iconic songs and dance numbers with his iconic fashion. You saw him moonwalk, you saw the giant climax of earth song with the tank etc and you still think you got cheated?

Well okay.
 
PurpleThriller said:
Well I have my doubts about Michael Jackson. He wasn't some "Angel" with Beethoven-like musical abilities like some fans claim. Michael had his flaws,and they need to be accepted as flaws ,even by the fan community . Lip-synching is,in my opinion,and not only mine, a cheap way to cheat on your fans. Real artists never lip synch. Thats why I can't consider Justin Bieber or Britney Spears real artists. So if Michael Jackson lip synchs ,at that point hes no better than those lip synchers. I'm not saying History Tour is at the standard of a shitty Bieber show ,History Tour is better than anything Gaga or Bieber can dream of performing. But I just can't stand lip-synching .
But that shouldnt be a problem,since Michael Jackson still danced his a$$ off ,even during the History Tour. In my original post I exagerated,Im sorry for that. He was more coregraphed,but also better at dancing,in some shows,than he ever was before. He evolved as a dancer and some performances look amazingly flawless,dancing-wise . And I give him full credit for still putting on that kind of show at 40,considering he was a pro before he even turned 15. Again Im very sorry,I exagerated too much in the OP.
He sang live during the concerts from 1970 all the way thorugh to the late 80's/early 90's. Bad tour itself was a marathon of killer shows where everything was mostly live apparently,and that tour alone lasted for more than 100 damn shows. Most of his life he sang live in concert,so for sure he wasnt some kind of talentless scammer like Lady Gaga. I exagerated again,sorry.
In conclusion,while Im not mad crazy about everything Jackson has done ,its crystal clear that he desrves the title of K.O.P Sorry for some parts of my O.P that could suggest otherwise ;)
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There’s so much that goes into being an artist. You can not reduce it to whether or not someone is singing live or lip-synching. That doesn’t change anything…it doesn’t take away from the fact that that person is talented. All of the artists you have mentioned and do not consider “real artists” are actually talented - some more, some less. Both Gaga and Bieber are quite good vocalists, for example.

I’ve never seen anybody compare Michael’s talent in composition to Beethoven’s. No, Michael wasn’t on the same level as Beethoven when it came to composition, but who is? They were both geniuses and creative minds in their own ways.

You can accept somebody’s flaws but there is a difference between accepting them and constantly trying to make someone look bad because of them. There are so many threads about how bad lip-synching is and how “lazy Michael got” and it’s like…we get it. Let’s talk about something else.
 
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dethorro said:
There’s so much that goes into being an artist. You can not reduce it to whether or not someone is singing live or lip-synching. That doesn’t change anything…it doesn’t take away from the fact that that person is talented. All of the artists you have mentioned and do not consider “real artists” are actually talented - some more, some less. Both Gaga and Bieber are quite good vocalists, for example.

I’ve never seen anybody compare Michael’s talent in composition to Beethoven’s. No, Michael wasn’t on the same level as Beethoven when it came to composition, but who is? They were both geniuses and creative minds in their own ways.

You can accept somebody’s flaws but there is a difference between accepting them and constantly trying to make someone look bad because of them. There are so many threads about how bad lip-synching is and how “lazy Michael got” and it’s like…we get it. Let’s talk about something else.
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The Beethoven mention was an irony aimed at some fans who call Mike "The King of Music". And The King of Music title can reffer,at least in my opinion,only to a genius classical music composer,which contribution to the art world not only changed music forever ,but also made it better and developed new styles . So basically someone like Beethoven or Bach. Im surprised when some fans call Mike the King of Music,because there wouldnt be any 80s ,70's or 60's without the past classical music and its genius composers. And there wouldnt be any Mike without the 80's. Thats why its ridiculous to me when someone calls Michael Jackson The King of Music. The King of Pop?Sure thing. The King of Music??Hell nahh!
And maybe Gaga can sing ,but she's too...satanic for my tastes. I cant say the same thing for Bieber though. He uses autotune both "live" and in studio,and he still sounds very basic. Bieber's boring and crap. Gaga lost her potential to the satanic symbols in her nightmare-ish videos.
 
@Themidwestcowboy

Yes sorry it is the way I feel about it ever since I realized it was mimed. For me the pinnacle of live performing is singing. As a kid the big shows were cool and spectacular but when I grew up I gravitated to more intimate performances, I also saw other artists perform fully live and it makes a much bigger impression on me. I honestly can’t even watch his 90s shows anymore. I’d rather see him perform live with an awful voice than to hear the album tracks on stage, that first verse of scream live in Brunei was both awful and awesome because it was live.

I guess it is a choice you either perform intricate dance steps or sing live but as a result the show becomes too choreographed like a swiss clock, concerts in my opinion should always maintain an air of spontaneity.
 
PurpleThriller said:
So basically someone like Beethoven or Bach.
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Modern mainstream popular music has little to do with classical. Most of it originated from black people, such as blues, rock n roll, jazz, hip hop, gospel, funk, disco, house, etc. Even country started out as the rural white version of the blues (mixed with folk & Hawaiian traditional music) and the banjo came from Africa and brought over to North & South America during the slave trade. The slap bass style was created by Larry Graham for Sly & The Family Stone.
 
dethorro said:
There are so many threads about how bad lip-synching is and how “lazy Michael got” and it’s like…we get it. Let’s talk about something else.
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I really wish that new members would search the forums before starting a new thread, to see it something similar already exists!
 
For me the worst part about the lip syncing on the HIStory Tour was how obvious it was. Like on In The Closet where Michael would go from an out of breath speaking voice into perfect falsetto vocals. Or when you see the backing singers lip syncing to Michael's vocals on Stranger In Moscow.
 
DuranDuran said:
Modern mainstream popular music has little to do with classical. Most of it originated from black people, such as blues, rock n roll, jazz, hip hop, gospel, funk, disco, house, etc. Even country started out as the rural white version of the blues (mixed with folk & Hawaiian traditional music) and the banjo came from Africa and brought over to North & South America during the slave trade. The slap bass style was created by Larry Graham for Sly & The Family Stone.
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Hi there :D Thanks for the info :)
 
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