What is it about Michael’s VOICE?!

[staywild23]

Please! Help me understand. What IS it about Michael’s voice that makes it so tremendous? I’m a huge music fan and have loved artists from all genres and have felt connected and moved by many of their voices. I’ve never really been drawn to traditionally beautiful voices, but rather highly unique voices with style and grit. But since discovering Michael…. sigh…He’s like, the gold standard vocally. His voice is objectively beautiful, but it’s also so much more than that. Listening to him makes it harder to appreciate other artists now… But why is this?

Listening to Michael’s music, especially his live vocals, I feel something inside of me come alive. I feel moved in a way I can’t describe. His voice on all of his songs, no matter the feeling - the softness, smoothness, or grit - I feel shaken by how deeply it resonates with me. It excites me in an almost visceral way. It’s like it goes straight to my soul and the core of my humanity. I really don’t think I’m overselling it here, either. His ability to sing one note and have it transport me is like nothing else I’ve experienced. If a person can fall madly and deeply in love with a singing voice, then I am there, and ready to commit forever lol.

I would really love to hear from others what your take is on Michael’s voice. Why do you love it so much and what makes it special?? I’d love to read emotional responses like mine, but also I’m really interested in anyone who is more knowledgeable about music who can break it down on a technical level. I mean, I know you can’t necessarily provide a technical definition or explanation for soul, but if there is some science behind why his voice sends me I want to understand it!

Thanks!

PS: I’m also in love with his speaking voice. It is so soft and gentle. It baffles me that he was mocked for it, even in a friendly way, because it’s so lovely. But anyway, that’s another topic! haha

 

[zinniabooklover]

Please! Help me understand. What IS it about Michael’s voice that makes it so tremendous? I’m a huge music fan and have loved artists from all genres and have felt connected and moved by many of their voices. I’ve never really been drawn to traditionally beautiful voices, but rather highly unique voices with style and grit. But since discovering Michael…. sigh…He’s like, the gold standard vocally. His voice is objectively beautiful, but it’s also so much more than that. Listening to him makes it harder to appreciate other artists now… But why is this?

Listening to Michael’s music, especially his live vocals, I feel something inside of me come alive. I feel moved in a way I can’t describe. His voice on all of his songs, no matter the feeling - the softness, smoothness, or grit - I feel shaken by how deeply it resonates with me. It excites me in an almost visceral way. It’s like it goes straight to my soul and the core of my humanity. I really don’t think I’m overselling it here, either. His ability to sing one note and have it transport me is like nothing else I’ve experienced. I am madly in love with it.

I would really love to hear from others what your take is on Michael’s voice. Why do you love it so much and what makes it special?? I’d love to read emotional responses like mine, but also I’m really interested in anyone who is more knowledgeable about music who can break it down on a technical level. I mean, I know you can’t necessarily provide a technical definition or explanation for soul, but if there is some science behind why his voice sends me I want to understand it!

Thanks!

PS: I’m also in love with his speaking voice. It is so soft and gentle. It baffles me that he was mocked for it, even in a friendly way, because it’s so lovely. But anyway, that’s another topic! haha

Can I come back to you on this?

I'm struggling with the exact same thing just now. For example, I would say Michael is not my fave singer and definitely is not my fave Tamla singer. OK. Fine. But that leaves me confused because his voice is unlike anyone else's, it gives me so much that no other singer does, his voice can take me places I can barely conceive of. I go round in circles trying to get it straight in my mind.

I do generally prefer beautiful voices which many people would not consider beautiful. Bob Dylan, Johnny Rotten, Poly Styrene, Chuck Mosely, Joe Cocker, Jimi Hendrix, Alice Cooper. I do also love voices which are more conventional. Greg Lake, Liz Fraser. And then voices that are somewhere in between all of that - Cyndi Lauper, Layne from Alice in Chains, the guy from Tool whose name I can never remember (sorry, mate!). And my lovely Tamla voices - Smokey, David Ruffin, Eddie Kendricks (sigh), Levi, Dennis Edwards, Melvin Franklin. And, of course, there is Adam Ant.

So in theory I would put a lot of people ahead of Michael except ... it makes no sense. Especially in view of how I feel about him, what his voice does to me or for me ... I basically agree with every word you've written here but I'm still struggling to ... what? I don't even know.

I'm struggling with two things about Michael just now. One involves comets in the sky and the other is this thing about his voice. And I'm not sure about the emotional response thing. I'll end up babbling like a weirdo.

But I am intrigued by this and keep on circling round it. I can't let it go so on some level I obviously want to try to understand it. I always give up and end up listening to him and then off I go into ... some other world.

I'm confused.

 

[zinniabooklover]

You've got me going, now.

 

[SmoothCriminal1995]

Good question.

My answer sounds a bit silly and vague, but it's that unquantifiable thing about his voice that draws me back to Mike every time.

I don't know another singer that can sing something as angry and raw as They Don't Care About Us, amazingly, and then on the very next track on the same album, sing something as deeply personal as Stranger In Moscow with the same if not more passion. The versatility and depth in his voice just hits me differently to any other singer. The control he had is phenomenal, he always pushed his vocals to the limit but never beyond them

His voice always sounds like a good friend, you might not talk often but when you do its nothing but love and warmth

 

[Hiker]

This post is going to be all over the place because I cannot follow a straight line of thought when thinking or talking about Michael.

After reading this thread, I did a little research. I listened to We are the World and What more can I give a few times. Michael's voice does stand out to me among all the other good singers. What stands out to me most is the passion and authenticity in his voice. Sure, in all fairness, they were his songs and others were "guest" singers, so it might be natural for him to be more passionate than others. Still, there is a depth in his voice that I have rarely heard in other singers.

I also went back and listened to some of my former favourite non-Michael songs. While I still like listening to them, when I listen to Michael, I feel like I am in the song. Whether it is Beat it or Will you be there or IJCSLY, he seems to pour his heart into his singing. I feel like I am in the song, I am singing with him, if its a fast one I am drumming my fingers and tapping feet, if its slow and romantic, I am feeling the love. What is strange is the sad songs make me cry and make me feel joy at the same time. I used to hate listening to sad songs. So what I am saying is I think he put so much passion into his songs that you get infected by that passion.

I have been listening to quite a few unreleased songs lately, and there I see a mix. There is a whole bunch which are now ranked higher in my list above the big 5 albums, but then there are also many that sound generic, forgettable. So I thought maybe that passion is a differentiating factor. Perhaps he himself was no feeling those songs so much, and hence unreleased/unfinished.

Lets come to the actual voice now. It is so soothing!! So Angelic. Even when he is shouting or hitting high pitch, it never gets "noisy". I posted on another thread that I can just keep hearing him say same sentence over and over again and I would still want to hear more. He could also have been a great preacher or motivational speaker. The same song would get my heart racing due to sheer joy of listening to Michael at one time, and calm me down when anxious at other time. So there is definitely some God given / coded on genes (depending on your belief) magic to his voice. I have never felt like that about any other singer.

I will not go into the song writing, that's for another thread

 

[Maxym]

Bob Dylan, ..., Poly Styrene

Didn't expect anyone to mention Poly Styrene around here... Also one of my favourite voices... though it's mainly for X-Ray Spex first album.
But already, she doesn't fall in the same category as Bob Dylan for me... I'd put Dylan in the a category once define by Joe Strummer talking about himself: (something like) "I can't really sing but I know how to put my voice on music".
Seeing your list I would say that the "compositions" play a big role in it... I don't know all of them but I them you like they're music compositions in the first place, and they knew how to use their voices on them... I think we can hardly like an artist for a single and unique aspect of their work.

I wondered also, what I like in Michael's voice... My cheap take would be (order is random) ...
- some frequency mixture that make his voice special
- Michael always knew how to use his voice AND put it in melody
- I tend to like singers who have clear words pronunciation
- I tend to like singers who can keep high notes without putting excessive vibratos... And can make right use of high notes using head voice without going out of control in falsetto (to my understanding Michael used much more head voice than falsetto*). In that regards I think my favorite voice overall is Joan Baez... MJ comes close though, possibly ex aequo. (not going to list other... not 100% sure what to include/exclude)
5- On the opposite I dislike many popular music voices sounding too "flat" or too synthetic (even if they would match my other points)
6- I think mix quality also impacts the way a singer is perceived (ex: some small band singers shine better when their band gets a good production)
* But about this and this whole paragraph: My true knowledge of the topic of voice is quite limited.

 

[CherubimII]

When I hear Michael Jackson sing, my very SOUL feels "FREE"!!!!
I feel as if I can soar above this planet and all its problems.
The person singing this song must be an Angel, and he is.

 

[staywild23]

So in theory I would put a lot of people ahead of Michael except ... it makes no sense. Especially in view of how I feel about him, what his voice does to me or for me ... I basically agree with every word you've written here but I'm still struggling to ... what? I don't even know.

I'm struggling with two things about Michael just now. One involves comets in the sky and the other is this thing about his voice. And I'm not sure about the emotional response thing. I'll end up babbling like a weirdo.

But I am intrigued by this and keep on circling round it. I can't let it go so on some level I obviously want to try to understand it. I always give up and end up listening to him and then off I go into ... some other world.

I'm confused.

I totally understand! As you may remember from other conversations, I am a HUGE Bob Dylan fan and his voice is not one people describe as beautiful. But it's unique and I've always connected really profoundly with it. I also love several of the other vocalists you mentioned, so I think we have similar tastes in that way! So that's part of why it's so bizarre to be so enraptured by someone whose voice, while incredibly unique, is also so traditionally beautiful. Maybe an emotional response from you would sound rambling and wild, but I would personally love to hear it

I appreciate your confusion about this though, because it's similar to how I feel. Sometimes I hear him sing one note, and I literally scream "YOU ARE SO AMAZING!" (this is while driving alone in my car, usually lol) because I just can't contain how it makes me feel. And I have NO idea why it effects me like that. I just looooooove it so much.

PS: This part ----> "I'm struggling with two things about Michael just now. One involves comets in the sky...." -----> Love this, but want to hear more!

 

[staywild23]

Good question.

My answer sounds a bit silly and vague, but it's that unquantifiable thing about his voice that draws me back to Mike every time.

I don't know another singer that can sing something as angry and raw as They Don't Care About Us, amazingly, and then on the very next track on the same album, sing something as deeply personal as Stranger In Moscow with the same if not more passion. The versatility and depth in his voice just hits me differently to any other singer. The control he had is phenomenal, he always pushed his vocals to the limit but never beyond them

His voice always sounds like a good friend, you might not talk often but when you do its nothing but love and warmth

Not silly or vague! I love hearing other people's take on this. I 100% agree with you on your assessment about the versatility of his voice and his incredible control.

"he always pushed his vocals to the limit, but never beyond them" -------- YES!! I think what I'm realizing in what you wrote is that Michael had all the technical ability, but he was selective in how he used it. There was an emotive purpose to how he sang. He didn't "go off" vocally simply because he could, but because the song either called for it or didn't. I think about how tender some of his vocals are and the quiet way he delivered them, versus the songs where he was spitting and screaming, and how those choices perfectly match the songs. We all know he was a good actor and he dreamt of acting and I wonder if that's part of what he was able to do as a singer. I know it's what singers are *supposed* to do, but how many can actually do it the way he does? So often it seems like singers use every opportunity to show off their technical skill but rarely focus on how they can make us feel.

 

[staywild23]

This post is going to be all over the place because I cannot follow a straight line of thought when thinking or talking about Michael.

After reading this thread, I did a little research. I listened to We are the World and What more can I give a few times. Michael's voice does stand out to me among all the other good singers. What stands out to me most is the passion and authenticity in his voice. Sure, in all fairness, they were his songs and others were "guest" singers, so it might be natural for him to be more passionate than others. Still, there is a depth in his voice that I have rarely heard in other singers.

First -- love that you did "research" for your reply

And I LOVE that you brought up We are the World...did you ever see that video of tribal members watching We are the World and not only did they all recognize Michael Jackson, several of them were like "wow, no one compares to him" just hearing his voice against everyone else's. And everyone there was AMAZING. But yes, something about his voice just stands out so beautifully. He sounds like an actual angel in that song.

I also went back and listened to some of my former favourite non-Michael songs. While I still like listening to them, when I listen to Michael, I feel like I am in the song. Whether it is Beat it or Will you be there or IJCSLY, he seems to pour his heart into his singing. I feel like I am in the song, I am singing with him, if its a fast one I am drumming my fingers and tapping feet, if its slow and romantic, I am feeling the love. What is strange is the sad songs make me cry and make me feel joy at the same time. I used to hate listening to sad songs. So what I am saying is I think he put so much passion into his songs that you get infected by that passion.

I have been listening to quite a few unreleased songs lately, and there I see a mix. There is a whole bunch which are now ranked higher in my list above the big 5 albums, but then there are also many that sound generic, forgettable. So I thought maybe that passion is a differentiating factor. Perhaps he himself was no feeling those songs so much, and hence unreleased/unfinished.

I love this and I know what you mean. It's like being inside of the emotional experience of the song, as well as the actual music itself. I completely get what you're saying. I feel similarly when I listen to other music now too. A lot of music sounds almost hollow in comparison. I remember him saying somewhere that he knows he can't live forever, so he pours his soul into his songs so he will never die, or something. Whatever it was, it's completely true.

Oh, I don't know a lot of his unreleased music yet, but I am sure there are hits and misses because I do trust that Michael had an amazing ear for what worked and what didn't. But he was also so self-critical that I also am positive so many amazing songs were unreleased just because of that. I admire him so much, artistically. I am really trying to generate the kind of drive he had for my own art and writing, because I get so easily discouraged by my own feelings of failure. It seems like he never did. God, he's a genius lol.

Lets come to the actual voice now. It is so soothing!! So Angelic. Even when he is shouting or hitting high pitch, it never gets "noisy". I posted on another thread that I can just keep hearing him say same sentence over and over again and I would still want to hear more. He could also have been a great preacher or motivational speaker. The same song would get my heart racing due to sheer joy of listening to Michael at one time, and calm me down when anxious at other time. So there is definitely some God given / coded on genes (depending on your belief) magic to his voice. I have never felt like that about any other singer.

I will not go into the song writing, that's for another thread

His voice is positively angelic. And yes! It never sounds strained or even like screaming/shouting. It still sounds beautiful and musical even at its rawest and grittiest. ------- "The same song would get my heart racing due to sheer joy...and calm me down when anxious..." YES! This. His voice makes me feel alive and so excited and overwhelmed, yet also completely grounded. It's insane. Regardless of belief system, to me it would be hard to argue that his voice and overall talent isn't otherworldly, or coming from some higher power. It's just too all encompassing.

Also, maybe you should start a song writing thread, if there isn't one already! I think he's an incredibly underrated songwriter!

 

[staywild23]

I wondered also, what I like in Michael's voice... My cheap take would be (order is random) ...
- some frequency mixture that make his voice special
- Michael always knew how to use his voice AND put it in melody
- I tend to like singers who have clear words pronunciation
- I tend to like singers who can keep high notes without putting excessive vibratos... And can make right use of high notes using head voice without going out of control in falsetto (to my understanding Michael used much more head voice than falsetto*). In that regards I think my favorite voice overall is Joan Baez... MJ comes close though, possibly ex aequo. (not going to list other... not 100% sure what to include/exclude)
5- On the opposite I dislike many popular music voices sounding too "flat" or too synthetic (even if they would match my other points)
6- I think mix quality also impacts the way a singer is perceived (ex: some small band singers shine better when their band gets a good production)
* But about this and this whole paragraph: My true knowledge of the topic of voice is quite limited.

I love this! I really appreciate this more technical perspective.

But I really like point 5 because I think this hits on something I feel a lot. There are SO many singers out there that are very technically gifted, but I feel absolutely nothing when I hear their voices. I feel this way about a lot of more contemporary pop singers, actually. I am sure there are vocalists out there who are more technically gifted than Michael, but his voice was inarguably special and had some other kind of quality that makes it addictive to listen to, at least for me!

 

[Hiker]

This discussion makes me think if the way he used his dance movements to make his performance just the right amount of seductive without crossing the line into dirty or vulgar (I am sure there are different opinions here), if he did something similar with his voice. He had tremendous control over his voice, like many other great vocalists. He probably kept tinkering with pitch and depth (sorry I don't know the technical terms) till he had just the right effect on the listeners.

 

[staywild23]

This discussion makes me think if the way he used his dance movements to make his performance just the right amount of seductive without crossing the line into dirty or vulgar (I am sure there are different opinions here), if he did something similar with his voice. He had tremendous control over his voice, like many other great vocalists. He probably kept tinkering with pitch and depth (sorry I don't know the technical terms) till he had just the right effect on the listeners.

GREAT point!! He seemed to really instinctively understand where the line was when it came to performance, whether in vocals or dance, and know how to play with it, without crossing it.

 

[zinniabooklover]

I totally understand! As you may remember from other conversations, I am a HUGE Bob Dylan fan and his voice is not one people describe as beautiful. But it's unique and I've always connected really profoundly with it. I also love several of the other vocalists you mentioned, so I think we have similar tastes in that way! So that's part of why it's so bizarre to be so enraptured by someone whose voice, while incredibly unique, is also so traditionally beautiful. Maybe an emotional response from you would sound rambling and wild, but I would personally love to hear it

I appreciate your confusion about this though, because it's similar to how I feel. Sometimes I hear him sing one note, and I literally scream "YOU ARE SO AMAZING!" (this is while driving alone in my car, usually lol) because I just can't contain how it makes me feel. And I have NO idea why it effects me like that. I just looooooove it so much.

PS: This part ----> "I'm struggling with two things about Michael just now. One involves comets in the sky...." -----> Love this, but want to hear more!

Well. What a question. Ever since you posed this question I've been having the weirdest time. I tried to write something about this, hoping I could sort out my muddled thoughts. Very quickly I went off on a tangent and then ... the floodgates opened!!

Wrote like a fury for a couple of days. Really started to address various things I'd always avoided or didn't understand. I feel so much clearer now with a lot of my Michaeling, what it means to me or why I do it. Getting some understanding of my various Michael phases and why they are so different to each other.

So that was lovely but didn't help with the voice thing. So I was very predictable and was trying to compare Michael to other singers. I was thinking about Layne Staley (Alice in Chains) singing 'Love Hate Love' and about Michael singing 'Morphine'. Imagining someone saying to me that I could only keep one of those songs. Which one would I choose? Well, there is only one possible answer to that question - on yer bike, mate. I'm keeping both. That's non-negotiable.

So that put me up a dead end. Or so I thought but then I realised I'd got that wrong. I finally understood that I have Michael in a separate category. I never compare him to anyone else because I don't feel I need to. He's Michael. It begins and ends there. I have sometimes had the thought, 'oh well, Michael isn't my fave singer cos there are all these other singers that I love', but that's just applying ordinary thinking to Michael when there is no point.

And that led me to yesterday when I started to realise:

1 - when I listen to Michael's voice it sometimes feels like he's transforming the world around me - that's an unfinished thought so I can't explain it any better than that. I need to let it simmer.

2 - as much as I love and adore (and would never abandon) any of my other fave singers there is something about Michael. His voice reaches parts of my heart / mind / soul that no-one else can.

3 - I believe there is a theory that art can sort of introduce us to our inner thoughts, that it can reveal things to us that we didn't know or thought we didn't know. It sometimes feels like that when I listen to Michael's voice. Certainly his voice has been able to break through some of my emotional barriers.

Everything I've said here applies just as much to his songs, his dancing, his lyrics, his art generally and just his person. But I do believe that the sound of his voice all by itself has a particular magic unequalled by anything that I can bring to mind.

Maxym makes a good point in saying that we mostly don't like artists for one single aspect of their work. Very true. But I also think voices are different and special. As much as I love lyrics I often separate the voice from the lyrics. The voice is my fave instrument so I love it as something that creates a soundscape as much as I love it for the words it is delivering. Michael can sing a single syllable and that is a whole experience right there for me. In fact, he's not the only singer who can do that. Mike Patton (Faith No More) could do that back in the 1990's. Bob Dylan does it all the time. But - here we go again - Michael does it like no-one else. There's a bit in Is It Scary, after Michael does the chorus for the second time (oh god, should have checked this before posting), he sings the last line of the chorus, then I think he sings 'Oh babe' (not sure) and then he does a little 'Woo'. Very softly. And that right there, that little 'woo' sound, that's my whole experience. There is so much in there, I couldn't even begin to describe or capture it all.

There are so many awesome thoughts, ideas, insights on this thread. I'm going to be wrestling with my own thoughts on this but also reflecting on other people's comments. So much helpful stuff here.

The bit about comets, I'll come to that another time. It's not even interesting. I mean, interesting to me, obvs, but not to anyone else.

 

[zinniabooklover]

Didn't expect anyone to mention Poly Styrene around here... Also one of my favourite voices... though it's mainly for X-Ray Spex first album.
But already, she doesn't fall in the same category as Bob Dylan for me... I'd put Dylan in the a category once define by Joe Strummer talking about himself: (something like) "I can't really sing but I know how to put my voice on music".
Seeing your list I would say that the "compositions" play a big role in it... I don't know all of them but I them you like they're music compositions in the first place, and they knew how to use their voices on them... I think we can hardly like an artist for a single and unique aspect of their work.

I wondered also, what I like in Michael's voice... My cheap take would be (order is random) ...
- some frequency mixture that make his voice special
- Michael always knew how to use his voice AND put it in melody
- I tend to like singers who have clear words pronunciation
- I tend to like singers who can keep high notes without putting excessive vibratos... And can make right use of high notes using head voice without going out of control in falsetto (to my understanding Michael used much more head voice than falsetto*). In that regards I think my favorite voice overall is Joan Baez... MJ comes close though, possibly ex aequo. (not going to list other... not 100% sure what to include/exclude)
5- On the opposite I dislike many popular music voices sounding too "flat" or too synthetic (even if they would match my other points)
6- I think mix quality also impacts the way a singer is perceived (ex: some small band singers shine better when their band gets a good production)
* But about this and this whole paragraph: My true knowledge of the topic of voice is quite limited.

Yep, love that Joe Strummer quote. Love his voice, too. I'm sure lots of people would say his voice is crap but I think it's great and perfect for The Clash. Was just listening to them this morning, Tommy Gun and Complete Control. Cooler than cool.

Poly Styrene - yes, definitely was talking about the first album and all of her early stuff. The album she did before she died, have only heard fragments. Have listened to the song she did about Michael. Mm, yeah, no. Not her finest moment. But I love her punk voice. Just the way she sings bondage. Actually, not even the whole word. Just the way she sings the second syllable. Brilliant.

It's interesting you mention melody when talking about Michael's voice. Didn't he say that melody is the most important thing? I'm sure I've heard people that worked with him say that was something he always said. Something about, lyrics aren't that important, it's all about the melody? I'm not a singer or musician so my understanding of music is kind of all over the place. And I love lyrics (even though I often tune them out) so I was intrigued by this new thought regarding melody. Of course, I understand the point he's making but it still kind of bent my brain a little bit. Since I'm not a songwriter I'd never thought about melody that much.

Excessive vibrato. With you. Drives me nuts. No idea why people do it, just wish they'd stop.

 

[zinniabooklover]

This discussion makes me think if the way he used his dance movements to make his performance just the right amount of seductive without crossing the line into dirty or vulgar (I am sure there are different opinions here), if he did something similar with his voice. He had tremendous control over his voice, like many other great vocalists. He probably kept tinkering with pitch and depth (sorry I don't know the technical terms) till he had just the right effect on the listeners.

This is such an interesting point about Michael as a dancer. Take the crotch grab as an example. Personally, I don't even see it as particularly sexy (or even sexual), it's just a signature dance move, imo. There are people who highly disapprove of the crotch grab as being vulgar and somehow unacceptable. I've seen people online getting very cross about this. It always makes me laugh. I think, do you understand rock / pop music at all? Do you understand dance?

Like most dancers, he knows how to be sexy (and he is sexy) without ever descending into being crude. Besides, I don't think sexy moves are ever just about sexual energy. They're about so much more than that. If a dancer does a 'sexy' move and that's the only thing they're focused on, that's when it'll look crude. Michael was far too clever and talented to ever do anything that didn't have multiple layers of meaning to it.

 

[staywild23]

This is such an interesting point about Michael as a dancer. Take the crotch grab as an example. Personally, I don't even see it as particularly sexy (or even sexual), it's just a signature dance move, imo. There are people who highly disapprove of the crotch grab as being vulgar and somehow unacceptable. I've seen people online getting very cross about this. It always makes me laugh. I think, do you understand rock / pop music at all? Do you understand dance?

Like most dancers, he knows how to be sexy (and he is sexy) without ever descending into being crude. Besides, I don't think sexy moves are ever just about sexual energy. They're about so much more than that. If a dancer does a 'sexy' move and that's the only thing they're focused on, that's when it'll look crude. Michael was far too clever and talented to ever do anything that didn't have multiple layers of meaning to it.

I really love this whole conversation about his approach to dance and performance. To me he is *overwhelmingly sexy* and his dance moves (including the crotch grab, but also the body roll, the thrusting, the chest popping etc.) drive me insane --- YET -- I still believe he performs extremely tastefully. He flirts with the line, but never crosses it. And as you said, he does so much more than these moves and the balance is there, so as soon as you might get sucked into the sexuality of it all, you are once again reminded of the artistry. In fact, the artistry is always present. As much as I tend to see the sexuality in his performances as intentional, I also can see how it is sort of in the eye of the beholder because once I transitioned from just seeing Michael as cool-as-hell to seeing him as sexy-as-hell, I now see most things he does through that lens and it's hard not to lol.

Anyway, I just love the intelligent discussion of his performance qualities and choices. It's really lovely

Though, I also find it very amusing that people are offended by the crotch grab.

 

[staywild23]

First, just let me say how much I love how your mind works. I love your posts for this reason. You are always so thoughtful in how you present your ideas. I also just love how deeply you've been contemplating this and how much this question has affected you. It really delights me. Anyway.

He's Michael. It begins and ends there. I have sometimes had the thought, 'oh well, Michael isn't my fave singer cos there are all these other singers that I love', but that's just applying ordinary thinking to Michael when there is no point.

I just love this so much. You're right. He does stand alone. Part of that, for me, is my emotional connection to him as a human being. Whenever I think about Michael as a person (not just a singer, or performer) I feel warm inside. He makes me feel safe and loved. It's weird, but it's wonderful. So for that reason, classifying him in a list of other performers makes me feel uncomfortable. It's also why I have a hard time critiquing him or criticizing him (which I am not saying is a good way to be, mind you).

1 - when I listen to Michael's voice it sometimes feels like he's transforming the world around me - that's an unfinished thought so I can't explain it any better than that. I need to let it simmer.

2 - as much as I love and adore (and would never abandon) any of my other fave singers there is something about Michael. His voice reaches parts of my heart / mind / soul that no-one else can.

3 - I believe there is a theory that art can sort of introduce us to our inner thoughts, that it can reveal things to us that we didn't know or thought we didn't know. It sometimes feels like that when I listen to Michael's voice. Certainly his voice has been able to break through some of my emotional barriers.

Everything I've said here applies just as much to his songs, his dancing, his lyrics, his art generally and just his person. But I do believe that the sound of his voice all by itself has a particular magic unequalled by anything that I can bring to mind.

All of these points, 1-3, are beautiful. I really love the 3rd one though. I don't know if I've ever heard that theory about art, but I love it. "art can introduce us to our inner thoughts" -- wow. I mean, I agree with it and it makes perfect sense. But I never thought of it that way. It makes me think that is part of the explanation for why some people are so affected by something that other people couldn't care less about. I have a theory that most of MJ's most ardent fans are deeply empathetic, thoughtful people. But I have no idea if that is the truth. I just feel like if we connect with him so much, that may be part of what we are connecting with.

Also, I totally agree. Beyond his talent as a performer, writer, dancer, and his beauty as a person, his voice is just magical.

The voice is my fave instrument so I love it as something that creates a soundscape as much as I love it for the words it is delivering. Michael can sing a single syllable and that is a whole experience right there for me. In fact, he's not the only singer who can do that. Mike Patton (Faith No More) could do that back in the 1990's. Bob Dylan does it all the time. But - here we go again - Michael does it like no-one else. There's a bit in Is It Scary, after Michael does the chorus for the second time (oh god, should have checked this before posting), he sings the last line of the chorus, then I think he sings 'Oh babe' (not sure) and then he does a little 'Woo'. Very softly. And that right there, that little 'woo' sound, that's my whole experience. There is so much in there, I couldn't even begin to describe or capture it all.


The bit about comets, I'll come to that another time. It's not even interesting. I mean, interesting to me, obvs, but not to anyone else.

I love that you mentioned Bob Dylan in this similarity because I agree 100%. But yes, Michael is still different in a lot of ways. I have to check myself about that part in Is it Scary. But I will say, there is a part in Who is It that has a similar effect as what I think you are mentioning here. I think it's somewhere in the middle, or later in the song during a break of some kind where you can sort of hear him crying, and talking to himself (you can REALLY hear this in the acapella versions on YouTube) but he does the *saddest* 'hee hee' in the world that is just heartbreaking to hear. You would never expect it in that song, but it carries this tremendous pain with it that I just feel so hard every time I hear it. It's incredible to me. This is part of the technicality we didn't really talk about yet. His stylizations are so unique and special. He just stands so far above and beyond in that way!

Also, I understand if you don't want to talk about the comets, but I do hope sometime you do because I"m very interested lol.

 

[zinniabooklover]

First, just let me say how much I love how your mind works. I love your posts for this reason. You are always so thoughtful in how you present your ideas. I also just love how deeply you've been contemplating this and how much this question has affected you. It really delights me. Anyway.


I just love this so much. You're right. He does stand alone. Part of that, for me, is my emotional connection to him as a human being. Whenever I think about Michael as a person (not just a singer, or performer) I feel warm inside. He makes me feel safe and loved. It's weird, but it's wonderful. So for that reason, classifying him in a list of other performers makes me feel uncomfortable. It's also why I have a hard time critiquing him or criticizing him (which I am not saying is a good way to be, mind you).


All of these points, 1-3, are beautiful. I really love the 3rd one though. I don't know if I've ever heard that theory about art, but I love it. "art can introduce us to our inner thoughts" -- wow. I mean, I agree with it and it makes perfect sense. But I never thought of it that way. It makes me think that is part of the explanation for why some people are so affected by something that other people couldn't care less about. I have a theory that most of MJ's most ardent fans are deeply empathetic, thoughtful people. But I have no idea if that is the truth. I just feel like if we connect with him so much, that may be part of what we are connecting with.

Also, I totally agree. Beyond his talent as a performer, writer, dancer, and his beauty as a person, his voice is just magical.


I love that you mentioned Bob Dylan in this similarity because I agree 100%. But yes, Michael is still different in a lot of ways. I have to check myself about that part in Is it Scary. But I will say, there is a part in Who is It that has a similar effect as what I think you are mentioning here. I think it's somewhere in the middle, or later in the song during a break of some kind where you can sort of hear him crying, and talking to himself (you can REALLY hear this in the acapella versions on YouTube) but he does the *saddest* 'hee hee' in the world that is just heartbreaking to hear. You would never expect it in that song, but it carries this tremendous pain with it that I just feel so hard every time I hear it. It's incredible to me. This is part of the technicality we didn't really talk about yet. His stylizations are so unique and special. He just stands so far above and beyond in that way!

Also, I understand if you don't want to talk about the comets, but I do hope sometime you do because I"m very interested lol.

Will do a proper answer later, lots of stuff here. But for now, real quick:
1 - interesting that you have probs re criticising Michael. Have to say, I have no such reservations! On my first day on the board I did 2 or 3 quick posts but my first proper big comment was on the heresy thread. Which probably tells you everything you need to know.
2 - Who Is It? Interesting. I hardly ever listen to that. I'll have to go and check for this 'hee hee'. I don't class that song as one of the 'painful' ones. I mean, the lyrics, I get it but the painful ones to me are Is It Scary, Morphine, that sort of thing. It's the pain in his voice more than the lyrics that I key in to.
3 - no probs talking about comets. It really isn't very interesting but am happy to explain.

 

[zinniabooklover]

First, just let me say how much I love how your mind works. I love your posts for this reason. You are always so thoughtful in how you present your ideas. I also just love how deeply you've been contemplating this and how much this question has affected you. It really delights me. Anyway.


I just love this so much. You're right. He does stand alone. Part of that, for me, is my emotional connection to him as a human being. Whenever I think about Michael as a person (not just a singer, or performer) I feel warm inside. He makes me feel safe and loved. It's weird, but it's wonderful. So for that reason, classifying him in a list of other performers makes me feel uncomfortable. It's also why I have a hard time critiquing him or criticizing him (which I am not saying is a good way to be, mind you).


All of these points, 1-3, are beautiful. I really love the 3rd one though. I don't know if I've ever heard that theory about art, but I love it. "art can introduce us to our inner thoughts" -- wow. I mean, I agree with it and it makes perfect sense. But I never thought of it that way. It makes me think that is part of the explanation for why some people are so affected by something that other people couldn't care less about. I have a theory that most of MJ's most ardent fans are deeply empathetic, thoughtful people. But I have no idea if that is the truth. I just feel like if we connect with him so much, that may be part of what we are connecting with.

Also, I totally agree. Beyond his talent as a performer, writer, dancer, and his beauty as a person, his voice is just magical.


I love that you mentioned Bob Dylan in this similarity because I agree 100%. But yes, Michael is still different in a lot of ways. I have to check myself about that part in Is it Scary. But I will say, there is a part in Who is It that has a similar effect as what I think you are mentioning here. I think it's somewhere in the middle, or later in the song during a break of some kind where you can sort of hear him crying, and talking to himself (you can REALLY hear this in the acapella versions on YouTube) but he does the *saddest* 'hee hee' in the world that is just heartbreaking to hear. You would never expect it in that song, but it carries this tremendous pain with it that I just feel so hard every time I hear it. It's incredible to me. This is part of the technicality we didn't really talk about yet. His stylizations are so unique and special. He just stands so far above and beyond in that way!

Also, I understand if you don't want to talk about the comets, but I do hope sometime you do because I"m very interested lol.

I think I've found it.

Approx time stamp 3m 23s Michael does a quick double intake of breath, then he sings, 'I can't take it cos I'm lonely', then he does a quiet little 'hee hee' immediately followed by another. I wonder if that's the bit you mean?

They were both so painful. I think what's happened is, that double intake of breath, it always does my head in. He does another one later in the song but it's this first one that gets me. My brain just goes 'somewhere' and by the time it comes back the 2 lots of 'hee hee' have gone. There's always a sort of aftershock, takes me a few seconds to come back into the world. I think the 2 lots of 'hee hee' do register but there's only so much pain from Michael my brain can cope with so I think it's doing its protective thing. For which I give thanks.

Never thought I would hear such a sad 'hee hee'. I mean, obvs, he puts lots of different emotions into many of the hee hee's but the level of pain in these 2, I wasn't prepared for it.



<steps away, quietly>

 

[zinniabooklover]

Now I know why I don't listen to Who Is It. Just checked out the acapella version. Didn't get to the end. It was too much. Got as far as the hee hee's. Had to stop.

 

[Hess]

Such passion and grief in vocals are rare.

MJ and Freddie Mercury are the best vocalists ever IMO.

 

[staywild23]

1 - interesting that you have probs re criticising Michael. Have to say, I have no such reservations! On my first day on the board I did 2 or 3 quick posts but my first proper big comment was on the heresy thread. Which probably tells you everything you need to know.

hahah honestly this is probably a healthier way to be! Me struggling to criticize him is very indicative of how I love people in my actual life, for better or for worse. Once I feel like I understand someone's heart, I have a hard time finding fault in them (and I say this, in this case, only understanding from a limited fan perspective, hence why it may not be the best way to be). But oh well! haha

Approx time stamp 3m 23s Michael does a quick double intake of breath, then he sings, 'I can't take it cos I'm lonely', then he does a quiet little 'hee hee' immediately followed by another. I wonder if that's the bit you mean?

YESS! That's the bit I was referring to -- however, I just listened to the acapella version again because I actually haven't listened to it in awhile, and all of the 'hee hee's in that song are devastating. The entire vocal is. It's really overwhelming, isn't it? There is absolute agony in those vocals. I think most of us have experienced that kind of pain before, but have rarely been able to express it. Hearing him sing this way, I wish I had this music during the darkest times in my life. But I am with you, it is very painful to listen to. It's almost too much.

 

[zinniabooklover]

hahah honestly this is probably a healthier way to be! Me struggling to criticize him is very indicative of how I love people in my actual life, for better or for worse. Once I feel like I understand someone's heart, I have a hard time finding fault in them (and I say this, in this case, only understanding from a limited fan perspective, hence why it may not be the best way to be). But oh well! haha


YESS! That's the bit I was referring to -- however, I just listened to the acapella version again because I actually haven't listened to it in awhile, and all of the 'hee hee's in that song are devastating. The entire vocal is. It's really overwhelming, isn't it? There is absolute agony in those vocals. I think most of us have experienced that kind of pain before, but have rarely been able to express it. Hearing him sing this way, I wish I had this music during the darkest times in my life. But I am with you, it is very painful to listen to. It's almost too much.

OK, comets. Hope you're up for a garbled explanation that makes no sense, lol.

So in the 1980's I loved Michael passionately even though I mostly ignored him. I was up for the singles and videos / short films but otherwise he was pretty much in the background of my life. Now when I say I was passionate about him, it was an actual thing. I haven't seen Moonwalker all the way through so I'm probably remembering this bit incorrectly but there's a bit where, is there a load of fans in a golf cart (should have checked before posting!!)? And one of the kids is with his grandmother? Think that's right. Anyway, they all see Michael and the kid that's with his grandmother gets crazy over-excited and his little face sort of morphs into kind of a mad face. Do you know the bit I mean? Well, one of my friends always said that was me, the moment the kid's face goes crazy, that was me with my Michael passion. And she was right. But I didn't buy his records or read about him. Never had any interest in seeing him live - although that was partly to do with me being allergic to arena / stadium type gigs. I just can't.

So there he was, one of my all-time fave dancers and really important to me but also very much part of the wallpaper. He'd been there almost my whole life so I did take him for granted. Plus, you know, rock bands. They had almost all of my time, energy, attention. I was going to 5 or 6 gigs every week.

So last week, wrestling with your question about Michael's voice, I started to think about Michael in the 1980's as being like a comet. I don't really know why that image popped into my head, it just did. I've seen at least 3 comets in my life. Ones you could see with the naked eye. One in particular I saw for 3 or maybe 4 nights in a row. Quite unbelievable. Just this unexpected, beautiful, wild, exciting heavenly body. And it was just there and I could see it really easily. And then it disappeared or exploded or whatever comets do. And for weeks or months afterwards I could remember everything about the experience. But I didn't want to go out and buy telescopes or be an amateur astronomer. And I was happy to go back to watching Mars or Venus in the sky even though the comet was more spectacular than they were.

So Michael would have a single out and I would be totally immersed in it, 24/7. When it was over I would go back to 'normal' life until the next one came out. I mean, I did have the videos on tape but not much time to watch them so it was mostly all about singles being in the charts.

This is very much an unfinished thought. This is as far as I've got with it. But for some reason it's helping me to understand my 1980's Michael experience. Cos each decade has been so different.

Who Is It? Yes, you're right. The entire vocal is agony. I'm not sure why I never really noticed before. I don't play it much but that shouldn't matter. It's pretty much in your face. I also figured out one reason why I struggled with it. Two of the songs that are painful and which I play a lot are Is It Scary and We've Had Enough. They both pulverise me, emotionally. But I realised, they both also have a sort of recovery period in the song. In both cases, the intensity of the song (and therefore of the pain) dramatically reduces and you get a little stretch where you can start to calm down and sort of 'debrief' yourself. You don't get that with WII. It just keeps the pain going all the way to the end.

I think the pain in some of Michael's songs is there in the music, lyrics and his voice. But I think there's another element, as well. I can't explain exactly what I mean here but there is something about hearing that pain and agony being communicated by such a beautiful voice that adds even more intensity to it. I'm not sure what I'm trying to say. I don't mean if a singer had a more 'ordinary' voice that they are somehow incapable of conveying deep pain and emotion. But there is something about Michael's exquisitely beautiful voice and this awful tragic pain that he's singing about that makes it more ... well, just more. Everything with Michael is just more.

 

[Hiker]

Wow! So much to parse and say on this thread! I am going to try to contain myself to Voice element.

3 - I believe there is a theory that art can sort of introduce us to our inner thoughts, that it can reveal things to us that we didn't know or thought we didn't know. It sometimes feels like that when I listen to Michael's voice. Certainly his voice has been able to break through some of my emotional barriers.

That is Art Therapy, and it is certainly used in form of visual arts like interpreting a painting or free form painting based on some abstract word or concept, also sculpting. I have also heard it related to dancing, but it is interesting to think about voice breaking through emotional barriers. Since Michael entered my life, or lets say my obsession with him began, I have certainly broken quite a few barriers. Things that I knew for long that I should have done, but was always scared to do or held myself back thinking its not the norm and I 'should' not do it. But so far obsessing about Michael was just one more thing that I started doing. It is interesting to think that there may be some correlation here.

Since I am already in crazytown, let me also add that I think there is also some deeper soul connection here, like you need to be in a particular state of mind to appreciate all the nuances of his voice, your mind need to be open to something, I don't know what. I am basing this on the fact that I used to listen to some of Michael's famous songs before without knowing its him. They were kind of regular favourites among a mixed bag. It was not like I heard his voice and totally fell in love with it. (I had never seen any videos which might have changed it all). But about 2 months back I picked a song from my old collection, I think 'you are not alone', and had that oh-my-god-this-is-so-beautiful moment. I did not even know it was Michael Jackson and I always linked him to Beat It and Thriller type fast songs.

So what I am trying to say is that I could have gone on hearing Michael countless times without paying much attention, but there was a specific state of mind for me where I was drawn to the voice and wanted to hear more and more of it. That is my deep first theory that absolutely hurts my scientific mind.

My other theory is what I said before, him using his voice in a way that draws people in. The well placed deep breaths, aww, au, hee hee. Sometimes its deep and painful voice, sometimes it is raw and shouting that casts a spell. Just the way he uses his dance moves to mesmerize you.

He flirts with the line, but never crosses it. And as you said, he does so much more than these moves and the balance is there, so as soon as you might get sucked into the sexuality of it all, you are once again reminded of the artistry. In fact, the artistry is always present. As much as I tend to see the sexuality in his performances as intentional, I also can see how it is sort of in the eye of the beholder because once I transitioned from just seeing Michael as cool-as-hell to seeing him as sexy-as-hell, I now see most things he does through that lens and it's hard not to lol.

That is so true. He definitely flirts with the line, and has certainly pushed it a few times, but the sheer grace of his movements make everything look tasteful. I also totally agree with 'eye if the beholder' part. I did not notice the sexuality first couple of times. I was focused on the dance and the precise movements at every beat. First time I noticed was actually through Oprah interview when she asks about crotch grabbing, and I was thinking, really? he does it too much? ..... and as they say rest is history, we all know where my thoughts are focused these days

 

[staywild23]

OK, comets. Hope you're up for a garbled explanation that makes no sense, lol.

So in the 1980's I loved Michael passionately even though I mostly ignored him. I was up for the singles and videos / short films but otherwise he was pretty much in the background of my life. Now when I say I was passionate about him, it was an actual thing. I haven't seen Moonwalker all the way through so I'm probably remembering this bit incorrectly but there's a bit where, is there a load of fans in a golf cart (should have checked before posting!!)? And one of the kids is with his grandmother? Think that's right. Anyway, they all see Michael and the kid that's with his grandmother gets crazy over-excited and his little face sort of morphs into kind of a mad face. Do you know the bit I mean? Well, one of my friends always said that was me, the moment the kid's face goes crazy, that was me with my Michael passion. And she was right. But I didn't buy his records or read about him. Never had any interest in seeing him live - although that was partly to do with me being allergic to arena / stadium type gigs. I just can't.

So there he was, one of my all-time fave dancers and really important to me but also very much part of the wallpaper. He'd been there almost my whole life so I did take him for granted. Plus, you know, rock bands. They had almost all of my time, energy, attention. I was going to 5 or 6 gigs every week.

So last week, wrestling with your question about Michael's voice, I started to think about Michael in the 1980's as being like a comet. I don't really know why that image popped into my head, it just did. I've seen at least 3 comets in my life. Ones you could see with the naked eye. One in particular I saw for 3 or maybe 4 nights in a row. Quite unbelievable. Just this unexpected, beautiful, wild, exciting heavenly body. And it was just there and I could see it really easily. And then it disappeared or exploded or whatever comets do. And for weeks or months afterwards I could remember everything about the experience. But I didn't want to go out and buy telescopes or be an amateur astronomer. And I was happy to go back to watching Mars or Venus in the sky even though the comet was more spectacular than they were.

So Michael would have a single out and I would be totally immersed in it, 24/7. When it was over I would go back to 'normal' life until the next one came out. I mean, I did have the videos on tape but not much time to watch them so it was mostly all about singles being in the charts.

This is very much an unfinished thought. This is as far as I've got with it. But for some reason it's helping me to understand my 1980's Michael experience. Cos each decade has been so different.

Who Is It? Yes, you're right. The entire vocal is agony. I'm not sure why I never really noticed before. I don't play it much but that shouldn't matter. It's pretty much in your face. I also figured out one reason why I struggled with it. Two of the songs that are painful and which I play a lot are Is It Scary and We've Had Enough. They both pulverise me, emotionally. But I realised, they both also have a sort of recovery period in the song. In both cases, the intensity of the song (and therefore of the pain) dramatically reduces and you get a little stretch where you can start to calm down and sort of 'debrief' yourself. You don't get that with WII. It just keeps the pain going all the way to the end.

I think the pain in some of Michael's songs is there in the music, lyrics and his voice. But I think there's another element, as well. I can't explain exactly what I mean here but there is something about hearing that pain and agony being communicated by such a beautiful voice that adds even more intensity to it. I'm not sure what I'm trying to say. I don't mean if a singer had a more 'ordinary' voice that they are somehow incapable of conveying deep pain and emotion. But there is something about Michael's exquisitely beautiful voice and this awful tragic pain that he's singing about that makes it more ... well, just more. Everything with Michael is just more.

I just love your messages! So thoughtful and thought-provoking. I am very interested in how you describe your relationship to Michael in the 80s. Having not grown up with him AND only being a recent fan, I fantasize about the type of fan I would have been in the 80s. Meaning, I imagine how my fandom would have affected me back then, in that world, and how I could have engaged with it. I have never been a person obsessed with celebrities in any regard, and sometimes I wonder if my obsession with Michael now is more about my total and complete access to endless content concerning him, or just him and who he is. I am leaning toward the latter since he has stimulated this kind of obsession in fans for his entire life, and well beyond. But my point is that I think those of us who weren't alive/weren't aware of Michael during that time are incredibly envious of everyone who was. At least I know I am!

Anyway, you describe it almost as a love from afar, or something. But the comet metaphor is fascinating to me. It reminds me of something I came to articulate recently which is that experiencing Michael is like sensory overload. He stimulates so much within me that sometimes I genuinely find it unbearable. I make jokes a lot in, eh hem, other threads, about how I "can't survive" watching him. And as much as that is a joke, it also comes from truth. I often feel like I have to step away from his performances, or his music, in order to recover emotionally, spiritually, physically, etc. He just flat out overwhelms me. It's like, whatever he is triggering inside of me is so intense that I don't feel like I can contain it in my body and yet, I don't know how to fully express it either. I imagine this is how fans felt when they fainted at his concerts lol. This is the same reason it took me coordinating with other fans to watch a concert to actually fully watch a solo show of his. I can typically only get through 2-4 consecutive performances before I feel like I want to hyperventilate and pass out from excitement. Wow, I sound psycho. Embarrassing.

But my point is that the whole comet metaphor makes sense to me because it's this otherworldly energy that is so spectacular and so awe-inspiring and overwhelming, and yet...a full focus on it would you maybe be too much to bear for too long. Not sure if that's what you are implying, but I guess that's how I am interpreting what you said through my own experience!

As for Who is it, you are absolutely right in that there is no break, or relief from the intense pain. It is all-consuming. I really love "Is it Scary" but I haven't listened to it a lot and I have yet to actually listen to "We've Had Enough" based on how I'm pacing myself through his work, (though I will go listen to it now!). Still, the emotional experiences of these songs that I do know, perfectly!

 

[staywild23]

That is so true. He definitely flirts with the line, and has certainly pushed it a few times, but the sheer grace of his movements make everything look tasteful. I also totally agree with 'eye if the beholder' part. I did not notice the sexuality first couple of times. I was focused on the dance and the precise movements at every beat. First time I noticed was actually through Oprah interview when she asks about crotch grabbing, and I was thinking, really? he does it too much? ..... and as they say rest is history, we all know where my thoughts are focused these days

I am much the same! When I first "discovered" him, I was just sucked into how incredible his dancing and performance was. I thought he was the coolest, swaggiest person that ever lived. And I still think that! but I think I started to see the sexiness in the Dangerous performances. I think it all officially ended with the Dirty Diana video and since then, there is positively no going back. Now I don't know how anyone sees anything else and I genuinely wonder what the experience is of fans who do not feel the sexual attraction that I do lol.

But that's all for a different thread (though, in fairness, I wouldn't mind if every thread devolved into this kind of talk haha)

 

[Hiker]

started to see the sexiness in the Dangerous performances.

We need a Dangerous watch party next!! I have not been able to go beyond IJCSLY. I have absolutely new appreciation for Dirty Diana now, the toe stands and ripped shirt!

There is Dirty Diana, and then there is Beautiful Girl, such a wide range of songs!

And speaking of voice, I just finished listening to Dangerous deposition. He is so relaxed and talks in detail about his creative process. In the same sweet voice. That is the silver lining that came out of those depositions.

 

[zinniabooklover]

I just love your messages! So thoughtful and thought-provoking. I am very interested in how you describe your relationship to Michael in the 80s. Having not grown up with him AND only being a recent fan, I fantasize about the type of fan I would have been in the 80s. Meaning, I imagine how my fandom would have affected me back then, in that world, and how I could have engaged with it. I have never been a person obsessed with celebrities in any regard, and sometimes I wonder if my obsession with Michael now is more about my total and complete access to endless content concerning him, or just him and who he is. I am leaning toward the latter since he has stimulated this kind of obsession in fans for his entire life, and well beyond. But my point is that I think those of us who weren't alive/weren't aware of Michael during that time are incredibly envious of everyone who was. At least I know I am!

Anyway, you describe it almost as a love from afar, or something. But the comet metaphor is fascinating to me. It reminds me of something I came to articulate recently which is that experiencing Michael is like sensory overload. He stimulates so much within me that sometimes I genuinely find it unbearable. I make jokes a lot in, eh hem, other threads, about how I "can't survive" watching him. And as much as that is a joke, it also comes from truth. I often feel like I have to step away from his performances, or his music, in order to recover emotionally, spiritually, physically, etc. He just flat out overwhelms me. It's like, whatever he is triggering inside of me is so intense that I don't feel like I can contain it in my body and yet, I don't know how to fully express it either. I imagine this is how fans felt when they fainted at his concerts lol. This is the same reason it took me coordinating with other fans to watch a concert to actually fully watch a solo show of his. I can typically only get through 2-4 consecutive performances before I feel like I want to hyperventilate and pass out from excitement. Wow, I sound psycho. Embarrassing.

But my point is that the whole comet metaphor makes sense to me because it's this otherworldly energy that is so spectacular and so awe-inspiring and overwhelming, and yet...a full focus on it would you maybe be too much to bear for too long. Not sure if that's what you are implying, but I guess that's how I am interpreting what you said through my own experience!

As for Who is it, you are absolutely right in that there is no break, or relief from the intense pain. It is all-consuming. I really love "Is it Scary" but I haven't listened to it a lot and I have yet to actually listen to "We've Had Enough" based on how I'm pacing myself through his work, (though I will go listen to it now!). Still, the emotional experiences of these songs that I do know, perfectly!

YES!!!

YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES!!!!!!!!!!!

Lot of shouting. I wanna do more but trying to behave myself. YES!!!!

Your 2nd and 3rd paragraph, almost every word. Pure gold. Absolute pure gold. The only bit in the 2nd paragraph that doesn't resonate with me is your point about, you need to join up with Michael fans to watch his shows or whatever. I'm the complete opposite. I have to head in the opposite direction into my own private space. But, apart from that, I could have pretty much written that. Michael absolutely IS sensory overload. I've only realised in the last 12 months or so how protective my brain has been, how it has managed this whole Michael thing for my benefit without me even knowing. Don't worry, I don't have a dissociative problem. I just mean, I think we all have an inner intelligence and, in my case, I often know what its up to but just as often I don't and when the penny drops it always amazes me. Yes, I kept my distance from Michael as a form of protection. In fact, I still do it now. And, yes, sometimes, loving Michael as much as I do, it almost feels unbearable even though that seems like a mad thing to say because he is so amazing and being into him is even more amazing. But it's heavy. He really does overwhelm me and I need space and time to recover. My brain needs time out but so does my body (and my spirit; you're absolutely right, there's the spiritual aspect as well). I definitely feel like I can't physically contain the feelings or emotions. And part of trying to deal with that is to try to express what he means to me or how he makes me feel but I am completely incapable of doing that plus trying to do that in itself also makes me feel overwhelmed.

For example, Hiker just posted a really good comment which I had a quick look at but won't read properly until tomorrow. Even looking at what other people are saying about Michael sometimes has to be rationed or approached with caution, lol. So when it comes to the man himself I'm definitely aware of how much I need to pace myself.

No, you don't sound like a psycho. Sound totally normal to me. Obviously, people's devotion to Michael manifests in many different ways but I'm pretty sure for everyone it's really intense. I don't think everyone feels as though their body is going to explode into little pieces but I do believe the intensity will be there in some form.

I'm definitely happy with the comet metaphor because it really is helping me to understand stuff so much better. It feels like a little part of my 'Michael' story just came into focus for the first time.

We've Had Enough. Oh my. I actually envy you being able to hear it for the first time. When I did, everything shifted. I love Invincible. I love every song on that album. But knowing that WHE was in the mix but didn't make the cut. That is painful. I'm not cross with Michael. But, yeah, that song being left out, sits heavy on my heart. As for Is It Scary. I wonder how I managed before that song was in my life. Incredibly painful but so beautiful. So complete. So operatic. So difficult to listen to and yet so cathartic and cleansing.

Michael Jackson. Just his name is enough.

 

[zinniabooklover]

@staywild23

P.S. So I said I play We've Had Enough loads. Total lie. I play it very sparingly. At first, I did play it loads. Multiple times every day for months. But then I had to stop for several months. And when I started again I put it onto a careful timetable. Because it makes me cry. I don't mean feeling tearful or extremely emotional. That would be Is It Scary or any one of many other Michael songs. No, with WHE it's proper sobbing. Real shaking and sobbing. And it happens a lot. Which makes me sound like a basket case but, then again, I think that ship has already sailed.

Early on, Is It Scary also made me cry a lot but, in time, that calmed down and I now have many different reactions to it as I do to any of Michael's songs. So I don't think there's a Pavlov's dog thing going on with WHE. I don't know why it happens. It just does.

All of this talk of crying and keeping Michael at a safe distance probably makes it sound like my Michael experience is a bit grim or perhaps a bit dry and shallow. In fact, it's very rich and fulfilling and joyful and full of laughter and excitement not to mention it's so intellectually engaging and fascinating. And so much of that, of course, is directly tied to his voice. The experience of listening to that voice is a whole universe of experience in itself. Definitely joyful.