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The Brad Sunberg Seminar Leak/Theft of 2023

Whichever way you look at it, hearing Michael's unreleased music is incredible. I feel that most of us appreciate it for what it is. A chance to observe the creative process of a genius! Majority of us aren't expecting it to be finished, mastered, complete etc. It's a glimpse at what could have been, almost an insight into his mind.

When songs are 'completed' by others, we appreciate that isn't how Michael left it. It's just a concept of what could have been.

I don't agree with how these recent leaks were obtained. I appreciate that the estate is there to make money. It would be great one day if they put out a complete collection of EVERYTHING they could never use or 'complete'.

It's like looking at an incomplete Van Goch, or a sketch by Michaelangelo.

But if you look at the work of Amy Winehouse, everything was deleted when she passed away. All of her demos, vocals, music (that was unreleased) were erased forever. I'm sure Michael wouldn't have wanted that for his art.
 
Lordy lordy lordy ..this thread , hey . I went to bed dreaming of it argh 😔
 
wendijane said:
@Fuzball what ? The band from Finland? Random! :LOL: lol Yes there is, and also an Australian rock band called Lord.
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Could be from Finland, yes.

edit: ok, I've just googled. They're from Finland indeed.

Amazing that I have rembered them somehow after almost 20 years. And this is all because of your "lordy lordy lordy" line.🤣 cheers🍻

 
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Fuzball said:
Could be from Finland, yes.

edit: ok, I've just googled. They're from Finland indeed.

Amazing that I have rembered them somehow after almost 20 years. And this is all because of your "lordy lordy lordy" line.🤣 cheers🍻

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Anytime @Fuzball 🎶 🍻 It's amazing how powerful words can be ! there's yet another band called Lord. from 88. They are American.

OKAY this thread hasn't been derailed .
actually i prefer this rock topic lol
 
Did Michael revisited Family thing then ended up to "We be ballin "? bec i see them kinda similar in some way notice "I don’t care even if it’s wrong or right Its a family thing ,its a family thing" and
Nothing you can say, nothing you can do we be ballin you we be ballin you""
 
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knigofpop said:
But if you look at the work of Amy Winehouse, everything was deleted when she passed away. All of her demos, vocals, music (that was unreleased) were erased forever. I'm sure Michael wouldn't have wanted that for his art.
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All of it?

en.wikipedia.org

Lioness: Hidden Treasures - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Then what was this about?

They said there seemed to be lots of material.
 
SilkySnare said:
And while on the subject, don't you think he would also hate the fact that other people are finishing his songs, putting them out and making money off them? Isn't that just as bad, or maybe even worse?
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I have absolute nothing serious to contribute to this thread, but this makes me wonder how people would react if this would be about paintings instead of songs. Finishing paintings for someone and then releasing them feels so much weirder.

How much control Michael had over certain songs when he was alive is also something I wonder about. If I remember this right, he disliked remixes of his songs, but they were still released. And one of his most unfinished songs that comes to my mind is In The Back. Still released. How did he feel about that? Does Michael make a difference between his casual fans and his hardcore fans? Is he okay with his hardcore fans listening to his unfinished stuff? Does nothing of this matter, because he only cared about the big numbers that only come with a "perfect" song, and with the Ultimate Collection he was like "whatever"? Did he have a saying in this? Maybe he loved it and wanted to share it with the world. Maybe he would love that his hardcore fans can listen to Hot Street and adore it. Who knows, who knows ...

But I guess many of these silly questions make the differences for most of us how we personally feel about leaks and all albums after 2009.
 
Lacra said:
I have absolute nothing serious to contribute to this thread, but this makes me wonder how people would react if this would be about paintings instead of songs. Finishing paintings for someone and then releasing them feels so much weirder.

How much control Michael had over certain songs when he was alive is also something I wonder about. If I remember this right, he disliked remixes of his songs, but they were still released. And one of his most unfinished songs that comes to my mind is In The Back. Still released. How did he feel about that? Does Michael make a difference between his casual fans and his hardcore fans? Is he okay with his hardcore fans listening to his unfinished stuff? Does nothing of this matter, because he only cared about the big numbers that only come with a "perfect" song, and with the Ultimate Collection he was like "whatever"? Did he have a saying in this? Maybe he loved it and wanted to share it with the world. Maybe he would love that his hardcore fans can listen to Hot Street and adore it. Who knows, who knows ...

But I guess many of these silly questions make the differences for most of us how we personally feel about leaks and all albums after 2009.
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MJ's involvement in TUC was looking at the tracklist when it was done, he wasn't involved in deciding which songs were picked.
 
Lacra said:
I have absolute nothing serious to contribute to this thread, but this makes me wonder how people would react if this would be about paintings instead of songs. Finishing paintings for someone and then releasing them feels so much weirder.
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I like you @Lacra .Your mindset is like a ray of light to this place.

Lacra said:
How much control Michael had over certain songs when he was alive is also something I wonder about. If I remember this right, he disliked remixes of his songs, but they were still released. And one of his most unfinished songs that comes to my mind is In The Back. Still released. How did he feel about that? Does Michael make a difference between his casual fans and his hardcore fans? Is he okay with his hardcore fans listening to his unfinished stuff? Does nothing of this matter, because he only cared about the big numbers that only come with a "perfect" song, and with the Ultimate Collection he was like "whatever"? Did he have a saying in this? Maybe he loved it and wanted to share it with the world. Maybe he would love that his hardcore fans can listen to Hot Street and adore it. Who knows, who knows ...

But I guess many of these silly questions make the differences for most of us how we personally feel about leaks and all albums after 2009.
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Always a maybe. I appreciate this post.
 
Lacra said:
I have absolute nothing serious to contribute to this thread, but this makes me wonder how people would react if this would be about paintings instead of songs. Finishing paintings for someone and then releasing them feels so much weirder.
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Excellent analogy, @Lacra!

For instance, here's an original work

images


versus a contemporised rework

8000801131f2d4efd97cdc16de157f9c.jpg
 
Lacra said:
I have absolute nothing serious to contribute to this thread, but this makes me wonder how people would react if this would be about paintings instead of songs. Finishing paintings for someone and then releasing them feels so much weirder.
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You just sent me down a serious rabbit hole here.

martinlawrence.com

Art Interrupted – Top 10 Fascinating Unfinished Paintings

Some artists might say that art is never finished, merely abandoned. Sometimes, however, artists truly fail to complete their paintings for many reasons. Sometimes outside events intervene, other times, they lose inspiration and creativity. In some instances, they may choose to leave their work...
martinlawrence.com martinlawrence.com

www.nytimes.com

Ideas & Trends; The Art of Finishing Unfinished Art (Published 1999)

Recent books, paintings and play are showing that completing works of dead artists can be marketable enterprise; special challenges of collaborating with dead discussed; photo (M)
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

en.wikipedia.org

Unfinished creative work - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

I'm starting to think at this point that all the greats truly do leave us with unfinished creation. It almost seems like a mark of artistry, in a morbid way. I've always been fascinated by the posthumous business and this is exactly why, it's a never ending venture.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
All of it?

en.wikipedia.org

Lioness: Hidden Treasures - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Then what was this about?

They said there seemed to be lots of material.
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Apparently not all of it, but Universal deleted everything they had! Also, I'm sure I heard in an MJCast episode that another artist has in his will that all of his demos will be destroyed, I'm sure it was Stevie Wonder but can't find the info anywhere else.
 
knigofpop said:
Apparently not all of it, but Universal deleted everything they had! Also, I'm sure I heard in an MJCast episode that another artist has in his will that all of his demos will be destroyed, I'm sure it was Stevie Wonder but can't find the info anywhere else.
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Yeah I've been hearing Stevie Wonder a lot lately. Anderson .Paak has a literal tattoo asking them to destroy it all.

Maybe just on principle, most "artists", in the truest sense, don't want this stuff heard. But MJ did acquiesce to demos being heard.
 
MJbr2 said:
Call me crazy, but I'm pretty sure the 2008 fire has something to do with it also.
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It was this manager:

David Joseph, chairman/CEO of Winehouse’s label, Universal Music U.K. “It was a moral thing,” the exec told Billboard. “Taking a stem or a vocal is not something that would ever happen on my watch. It now can’t happen on anyone else’s.”

www.cnn.com

Amy Winehouse demos for unfinished third LP destroyed | CNN

Amy Winehouse died July 2011 at age 27, with only two studio albums to her name. The demos for a third have reportedly been destroyed.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
 
I don't know if this has been mentioned before but I saw in the 'Dangerous tracklist leak' that every song was written out except for 'Why You Wanna Trip On Me' and they all call it 'Trip'. So I guess it was first called 'Trip'?
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
It was this manager:

David Joseph, chairman/CEO of Winehouse’s label, Universal Music U.K. “It was a moral thing,” the exec told Billboard. “Taking a stem or a vocal is not something that would ever happen on my watch. It now can’t happen on anyone else’s.”

www.cnn.com

Amy Winehouse demos for unfinished third LP destroyed | CNN

Amy Winehouse died July 2011 at age 27, with only two studio albums to her name. The demos for a third have reportedly been destroyed.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
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Suddenly I'm more appreciative of how the MJ Estate deals with demos.
 
Victorious said:
I don't know if this has been mentioned before but I saw in the 'Dangerous tracklist leak' that every song was written out except for 'Why You Wanna Trip On Me' and they all call it 'Trip'. So I guess it was first called 'Trip'?
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I think it was just shorthand. Kinda like saying “Don’t Stop” or “Startin’ Somethin’.”
 
Holy shit just watched one of the leaked clips and you can clearly see mjs bald spot when he takes of his hat. I guess it never did grow back after pepsi incident
 
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