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The Brad Sunberg Seminar Leak/Theft of 2023

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SilkySnare said:
I guess it makes sense that he didn't want to release unfinished songs. I mean, why would he. So we know what he wanted during his lifetime, but what did he want after he was gone? I believe those are two different scenarios and people keep mixing them up.

Do you really think he would say:"No, I am sorry. My wish is for all this to remain locked in a vault where it will slowly disintegrate into dust. I will only allow Brad to charge 400€ per ticket and show some of it in his seminars. Also, some of it can be completed by random people who will butcher most of it and sell it to fans like you."
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He was never asked and he never answered any questions about posthumous work..

But I think he would say "Enjoy the work I did when I was alive first, why isn't Invincible good enough?"

Maybe he wouldn't approve of any of it. Maybe he wouldn't care about any of it. But he knew posthumous business. He knew it would take care of his *kids*, that would be his only priority, not his goofy lil fans. I mean, he liked us enough, but come off it. He didn't care *that* much about us. He just treated us better than most people do, which is quite nice. Any "fan" who claims to be and yet defraud his kids and associates ain't his "Fans". He would not hate us for listening to leaks and things like it though, just hurt that he couldn't have finished it. But there is a reason after Invincible he did pretty much stop most recording, the digital age was an enemy of all artists, no one likes leaks and seeing their profits taken anyway.

I think MJ not setting a clause is the best option; it's up to us to figure it out and make the best choices. Vote with your wallets. And really I think every camp of audience has been satiated, except for the audiophiles (they get bones from time 2 time tho.) But sure, we can stay mad at Branca forever. Like that wasn't MJ's choice either. So what do you want? No winning really.
 
Due to new information that has come to light in this thread, I have decided to remove Lord Jackson from my community. I do not in any shape or form condone any behaviour that involves theft.
 
Gaz said:
Due to new information that has come to light in this thread, I have decided to remove Lord Jackson from my community. I do not in any shape or form condone any behaviour that involves theft.
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@Gaz should we close this thread now gaz or?
 
Whichever way you look at it, hearing Michael's unreleased music is incredible. I feel that most of us appreciate it for what it is. A chance to observe the creative process of a genius! Majority of us aren't expecting it to be finished, mastered, complete etc. It's a glimpse at what could have been, almost an insight into his mind.

When songs are 'completed' by others, we appreciate that isn't how Michael left it. It's just a concept of what could have been.

I don't agree with how these recent leaks were obtained. I appreciate that the estate is there to make money. It would be great one day if they put out a complete collection of EVERYTHING they could never use or 'complete'.

It's like looking at an incomplete Van Goch, or a sketch by Michaelangelo.

But if you look at the work of Amy Winehouse, everything was deleted when she passed away. All of her demos, vocals, music (that was unreleased) were erased forever. I'm sure Michael wouldn't have wanted that for his art.
 
Lordy lordy lordy ..this thread , hey . I went to bed dreaming of it argh 😔
 
wendijane said:
@Fuzball what ? The band from Finland? Random! :LOL: lol Yes there is, and also an Australian rock band called Lord.
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Could be from Finland, yes.

edit: ok, I've just googled. They're from Finland indeed.

Amazing that I have rembered them somehow after almost 20 years. And this is all because of your "lordy lordy lordy" line.🤣 cheers🍻

 
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Fuzball said:
Could be from Finland, yes.

edit: ok, I've just googled. They're from Finland indeed.

Amazing that I have rembered them somehow after almost 20 years. And this is all because of your "lordy lordy lordy" line.🤣 cheers🍻

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Anytime @Fuzball 🎶 🍻 It's amazing how powerful words can be ! there's yet another band called Lord. from 88. They are American.

OKAY this thread hasn't been derailed .
actually i prefer this rock topic lol
 
Did Michael revisited Family thing then ended up to "We be ballin "? bec i see them kinda similar in some way notice "I don’t care even if it’s wrong or right Its a family thing ,its a family thing" and
Nothing you can say, nothing you can do we be ballin you we be ballin you""
 
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knigofpop said:
But if you look at the work of Amy Winehouse, everything was deleted when she passed away. All of her demos, vocals, music (that was unreleased) were erased forever. I'm sure Michael wouldn't have wanted that for his art.
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All of it?

en.wikipedia.org

Lioness: Hidden Treasures - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Then what was this about?

They said there seemed to be lots of material.
 
SilkySnare said:
And while on the subject, don't you think he would also hate the fact that other people are finishing his songs, putting them out and making money off them? Isn't that just as bad, or maybe even worse?
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I have absolute nothing serious to contribute to this thread, but this makes me wonder how people would react if this would be about paintings instead of songs. Finishing paintings for someone and then releasing them feels so much weirder.

How much control Michael had over certain songs when he was alive is also something I wonder about. If I remember this right, he disliked remixes of his songs, but they were still released. And one of his most unfinished songs that comes to my mind is In The Back. Still released. How did he feel about that? Does Michael make a difference between his casual fans and his hardcore fans? Is he okay with his hardcore fans listening to his unfinished stuff? Does nothing of this matter, because he only cared about the big numbers that only come with a "perfect" song, and with the Ultimate Collection he was like "whatever"? Did he have a saying in this? Maybe he loved it and wanted to share it with the world. Maybe he would love that his hardcore fans can listen to Hot Street and adore it. Who knows, who knows ...

But I guess many of these silly questions make the differences for most of us how we personally feel about leaks and all albums after 2009.
 
Lacra said:
I have absolute nothing serious to contribute to this thread, but this makes me wonder how people would react if this would be about paintings instead of songs. Finishing paintings for someone and then releasing them feels so much weirder.

How much control Michael had over certain songs when he was alive is also something I wonder about. If I remember this right, he disliked remixes of his songs, but they were still released. And one of his most unfinished songs that comes to my mind is In The Back. Still released. How did he feel about that? Does Michael make a difference between his casual fans and his hardcore fans? Is he okay with his hardcore fans listening to his unfinished stuff? Does nothing of this matter, because he only cared about the big numbers that only come with a "perfect" song, and with the Ultimate Collection he was like "whatever"? Did he have a saying in this? Maybe he loved it and wanted to share it with the world. Maybe he would love that his hardcore fans can listen to Hot Street and adore it. Who knows, who knows ...

But I guess many of these silly questions make the differences for most of us how we personally feel about leaks and all albums after 2009.
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MJ's involvement in TUC was looking at the tracklist when it was done, he wasn't involved in deciding which songs were picked.
 
Lacra said:
I have absolute nothing serious to contribute to this thread, but this makes me wonder how people would react if this would be about paintings instead of songs. Finishing paintings for someone and then releasing them feels so much weirder.
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I like you @Lacra .Your mindset is like a ray of light to this place.

Lacra said:
How much control Michael had over certain songs when he was alive is also something I wonder about. If I remember this right, he disliked remixes of his songs, but they were still released. And one of his most unfinished songs that comes to my mind is In The Back. Still released. How did he feel about that? Does Michael make a difference between his casual fans and his hardcore fans? Is he okay with his hardcore fans listening to his unfinished stuff? Does nothing of this matter, because he only cared about the big numbers that only come with a "perfect" song, and with the Ultimate Collection he was like "whatever"? Did he have a saying in this? Maybe he loved it and wanted to share it with the world. Maybe he would love that his hardcore fans can listen to Hot Street and adore it. Who knows, who knows ...

But I guess many of these silly questions make the differences for most of us how we personally feel about leaks and all albums after 2009.
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Always a maybe. I appreciate this post.
 
Lacra said:
I have absolute nothing serious to contribute to this thread, but this makes me wonder how people would react if this would be about paintings instead of songs. Finishing paintings for someone and then releasing them feels so much weirder.
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Excellent analogy, @Lacra!

For instance, here's an original work

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versus a contemporised rework

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Lacra said:
I have absolute nothing serious to contribute to this thread, but this makes me wonder how people would react if this would be about paintings instead of songs. Finishing paintings for someone and then releasing them feels so much weirder.
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You just sent me down a serious rabbit hole here.

martinlawrence.com

Art Interrupted – Top 10 Fascinating Unfinished Paintings

Some artists might say that art is never finished, merely abandoned. Sometimes, however, artists truly fail to complete their paintings for many reasons. Sometimes outside events intervene, other times, they lose inspiration and creativity. In some instances, they may choose to leave their work...
martinlawrence.com martinlawrence.com

www.nytimes.com

Ideas & Trends; The Art of Finishing Unfinished Art (Published 1999)

Recent books, paintings and play are showing that completing works of dead artists can be marketable enterprise; special challenges of collaborating with dead discussed; photo (M)
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

en.wikipedia.org

Unfinished creative work - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

I'm starting to think at this point that all the greats truly do leave us with unfinished creation. It almost seems like a mark of artistry, in a morbid way. I've always been fascinated by the posthumous business and this is exactly why, it's a never ending venture.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
All of it?

en.wikipedia.org

Lioness: Hidden Treasures - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Then what was this about?

They said there seemed to be lots of material.
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Apparently not all of it, but Universal deleted everything they had! Also, I'm sure I heard in an MJCast episode that another artist has in his will that all of his demos will be destroyed, I'm sure it was Stevie Wonder but can't find the info anywhere else.
 
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