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The Discussion of MJ's Unreleased Tracks

Derek1984 said:
Good information.

I'll also add that in Rolling Stone in 1984, just prior to the Victory tour and album, Frank Dileo mentioned the song and how it was a dance tune and going to be the next big hit.
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But nobody ever heard it on a seminar or something..?
 
threepea11 said:
I have a theory

So you know how theres confusion how Al Capone and the demo of Smooth Criminal were recorded either after or before each other? Well I have a theory

What if Michael recorded both in the same session (doubt it, but its possible) and it was to choose which direction for tone to go in. He chose Smooth Criminal of course, but it somewhat makes sense, the only thing that doesn't help this case is that Al Capone sounds more complete than the Smooth Criminal demo, it could also be because he wasn't finished with Smooth Criminal.
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Don't take Al Capone being the "demo" of Smooth Criminal so literally. It's not honestly nuanced enough.

I think they're more akin to cousins than father and son. Al Capone definitely feels slightly older and rawer though. Smooth Criminal is a more refined groove, and with a more laid back subject matter. I think Mike didn't want to seem like he was rehashing story songs like Billie Jean or to keep making historical songs (Buffalo Bill, Chicago 1945, Al Capone). So he shifted the narrative slightly at this time and also reworked the groove a bit. It's like when you start a project, leave it, and come back to it a bit later.


The fact Little Susie itself is a story time song about a person that predates all of these, Off The Wall era, might support my own little theory here. That MJ started to prefer more abstract viginettes in his lyrics rather than "autobiographical" or named stuff.
 
I made a little summary of this song "Buffalo Bill". Several things have already been said. I've put together interviews with John Barnes, Bill Botrell, Matt Forger, Frank Dileo and MJ on video himself. Which is extremely rare on his part. The video, which dates from 1983.


In the video, MJ clarifies that he was working on the future album, Victory, and that he wrote several songs, including one of them is called "Buffalo Bill". The song is about William Cody, a cowboy who just died. Rare thing about MJ is that he is very enthusiastic about the song and says it will be a hit. He then evokes the song "Liberian Girl", which was kept for the album Bad and which had the success that we know.


"Buffalo Bill" is the first collaboration with John Barnes. On Facebook, he says the song is great but not quite finished. And he would like to finish the demo. The song was subsequently considered for the album Bad.


In John Barnes' MJCast video above, he indicates that Michael came up with the idea for the song. It begins with an orchestral start, then turns into an R&B dance song. They did most of the work on the same day, 6 hours in the studio. John Barnes also mentions that some of these songs were better than what made the album. Concerning "Liberian Girl", the song was already ready for Victory except for the intro which was added by Quincy.


Bill Botrell answered a question about the demo on gearspace in 2009. He remembers the demo which had a strong John Barnes influence and a cool chorus: "Who Shot Buffalo Bill? They said he shot alot did he ever get killed?” In 1984 Frank Dileo mentioned the song in a Rolling Stones interview. He had heard MJ's latest uptempo dance composition.

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In Joe Vogel's book it is stated that Matt Forger described it as an amazing song that was never finalized. "It went through such contortions and changes and green writes and variations" There is a photo of MJ posing in front of William Cody's grave.

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threepea11 said:
I have a theory

So you know how theres confusion how Al Capone and the demo of Smooth Criminal were recorded either after or before each other? Well I have a theory

What if Michael recorded both in the same session (doubt it, but its possible) and it was to choose which direction for tone to go in. He chose Smooth Criminal of course, but it somewhat makes sense, the only thing that doesn't help this case is that Al Capone sounds more complete than the Smooth Criminal demo, it could also be because he wasn't finished with Smooth Criminal.
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You can actually hear a second of Al Capone before the smooth criminal demo so they’re connected somehow
 
SmoothMel7 said:
I made a little summary of this song "Buffalo Bill". Several things have already been said. I've put together interviews with John Barnes, Bill Botrell, Matt Forger, Frank Dileo and MJ on video himself. Which is extremely rare on his part. The video, which dates from 1983.


In the video, MJ clarifies that he was working on the future album, Victory, and that he wrote several songs, including one of them is called "Buffalo Bill". The song is about William Cody, a cowboy who just died. Rare thing about MJ is that he is very enthusiastic about the song and says it will be a hit. He then evokes the song "Liberian Girl", which was kept for the album Bad and which had the success that we know.


"Buffalo Bill" is the first collaboration with John Barnes. On Facebook, he says the song is great but not quite finished. And he would like to finish the demo. The song was subsequently considered for the album Bad.


In John Barnes' MJCast video above, he indicates that Michael came up with the idea for the song. It begins with an orchestral start, then turns into an R&B dance song. They did most of the work on the same day, 6 hours in the studio. John Barnes also mentions that some of these songs were better than what made the album. Concerning "Liberian Girl", the song was already ready for Victory except for the intro which was added by Quincy.


Bill Botrell answered a question about the demo on gearspace in 2009. He remembers the demo which had a strong John Barnes influence and a cool chorus: "Who Shot Buffalo Bill? They said he shot alot did he ever get killed?” In 1984 Frank Dileo mentioned the song in a Rolling Stones interview. He had heard MJ's latest uptempo dance composition.

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

In Joe Vogel's book it is stated that Matt Forger described it as an amazing song that was never finalized. "It went through such contortions and changes and green writes and variations" There is a photo of MJ posing in front of William Cody's grave.

MJ Beats | Tudo sobre Michael Jackson

Tudo sobre Michael Jackson
mjbeats.com.br mjbeats.com.br
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I heard it being mentioned in this podcast that Buffalo Bill was going to be put on Bad 25 but it was taken out at the last minute. I never managed to find a source for it, does anyone know more about this?
 
SmoothMel7 said:
I made a little summary of this song "Buffalo Bill". Several things have already been said. I've put together interviews with John Barnes, Bill Botrell, Matt Forger, Frank Dileo and MJ on video himself. Which is extremely rare on his part. The video, which dates from 1983.


In the video, MJ clarifies that he was working on the future album, Victory, and that he wrote several songs, including one of them is called "Buffalo Bill". The song is about William Cody, a cowboy who just died. Rare thing about MJ is that he is very enthusiastic about the song and says it will be a hit. He then evokes the song "Liberian Girl", which was kept for the album Bad and which had the success that we know.


"Buffalo Bill" is the first collaboration with John Barnes. On Facebook, he says the song is great but not quite finished. And he would like to finish the demo. The song was subsequently considered for the album Bad.


In John Barnes' MJCast video above, he indicates that Michael came up with the idea for the song. It begins with an orchestral start, then turns into an R&B dance song. They did most of the work on the same day, 6 hours in the studio. John Barnes also mentions that some of these songs were better than what made the album. Concerning "Liberian Girl", the song was already ready for Victory except for the intro which was added by Quincy.


Bill Botrell answered a question about the demo on gearspace in 2009. He remembers the demo which had a strong John Barnes influence and a cool chorus: "Who Shot Buffalo Bill? They said he shot alot did he ever get killed?” In 1984 Frank Dileo mentioned the song in a Rolling Stones interview. He had heard MJ's latest uptempo dance composition.

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

In Joe Vogel's book it is stated that Matt Forger described it as an amazing song that was never finalized. "It went through such contortions and changes and green writes and variations" There is a photo of MJ posing in front of William Cody's grave.

MJ Beats | Tudo sobre Michael Jackson

Tudo sobre Michael Jackson
mjbeats.com.br mjbeats.com.br
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Victory was basically this close to being Thriller 2.0. And maybe even better than Bad, though I won't bank on that. But there was definitely some amazing material in that pipeline.
 
Victorious said:
I know this song has been talked about for ages but it still haunts me, so:

Bufffalo Bill

1. Has anyone ever heard it?
2. If so: Was it really that good?
3. If yes: Why wasn't it on any of his albums?
4. Do you think it transformed into another song later? (since a lot of demo's did)
5. If so: could it be 'Al Capone' (since it's also about a mythical figure and kinda matches the verses)
6. If not: was it transformed into another (released) song, or were parts of it used later on?
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It's a heavy John Barnes influence and the chorus is "Who shot Buffalo Bill? They said he shot a lot, did he ever get killed?"

It's vocally incomplete
 
knigofpop said:
I was just listening to the "People of the world" demo and was reminded of how beautiful this track is. Other than the J-Friends version, is there a more vocally complete MJ version? I do love the 'da da da, dee dee dee' though 😌
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Most likely not but this can give you an idea of how a complete version would be like
 
knigofpop said:
I was just listening to the "People of the world" demo and was reminded of how beautiful this track is. Other than the J-Friends version, is there a more vocally complete MJ version? I do love the 'da da da, dee dee dee' though 😌
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MJ's version was basically used as a writer's demo for J-Friends, as far as I know he didn't complete it and just recorded the scratch vocal to demonstrate the melody.
 
Guys what about songs like California grass .lonely man .lonely bird .Lucy in love with luncs .lama Lola .children hours .babies smile . Who's the girls with her hair down .what's your life . Those songs we have zero information maybe they have full vocals ?
 
People of the World is pleasant but it's fine as it is. Idk, there really wasn't many places left to go after Earth Song, but then the fact he came back with "We've Had Enough" is just incredible. Like he nailed the anthem tunes.

Stuff like Days in Gloucestershire and I Am The Loser though, that covers the same territory. I hope there's lots more with those kinds of tunes.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
People of the World is pleasant but it's fine as it is. Idk, there really wasn't many places left to go after Earth Song, but then the fact he came back with "We've Had Enough" is just incredible. Like he nailed the anthem tunes.

Stuff like Days in Gloucestershire and I Am The Loser though, that covers the same territory. I hope there's lots more with those kinds of tunes.
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So Brad Buxer mentioned those (and In The Back, Beautiful Girl) as his favourites in the interview (iirc), but does that mean there are finished versions of DIG, IAMTL and ITB?
 
I don’t think it would have worked once more in terms of it possibly being a hit. It feels like he is repeating himself. Like creating a 2nd thriller with threatened.

That said I do like the song, especially the intro and the final minute and a half is pretty special
 
Derek1984 said:
The more I think about Matt Forgers statement about Roger Troutman taking the instrumental for Tomboy to be on his own record the more I wonder if this isn't true.

Why wouldn't Roger give any credit to Michael on his album for the song? There's nothing in album credits I could note, except on the 1989 Zapp record "Zapp Vibe", Roger wrote:
"Thanks also to Michael Jackson for giving so many of us that continued hope, and for being the ever-bright shining star; and thanks for allowing me the great privilege of visiting your home and studio. Thanks, Michael, also for honoring my music by putting it on your “bad” Bad album.“

I wonder if Tomboy is just an earlier version of Superfly Sister.
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It's probably on the 1989 album. We've figured that out by now.
 
AlwaysThere said:
TYLA doesn’t really land for me. Perhaps I’m just used to MJ having big, multi-layered choruses; this one feels like an ad-lib and not very well thought out. The bridge is insane though.
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I kinda understand what you were saying now. The Rough Mix of Streetwalker has the same feeling to me; it may be a placeholder for a real hook.
 
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Mister_Jay_Tee said:
I kinda understand what you were saying now. The Rough Mix of Streetwalker has the same feeling to me; it may be a placeholder for a real book.
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See, I feel the opposite. I never cared for Streetwalker; it’s okay but it absolutely doesn’t deserve a spot on Bad. But I absolutely adore the demo mix—the higher key, the slightly funkier arrangement, and the alternate chorus elevate it to another plane for me.
 
AlwaysThere said:
See, I feel the opposite. I never cared for Streetwalker; it’s okay but it absolutely doesn’t deserve a spot on Bad. But I absolutely adore the demo mix—the higher key, the slightly funkier arrangement, and the alternate chorus elevate it to another plane for me.
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I do like how much funkier it is. I think the version those buffoons couldn't actually leak is the best version lol.
 
Can someone please answer me these questions? Thanks!

1. Willing and Waiting - we've heard the leaked writers demo. Do we have any information, from Brad or from someone else.. did MJ ever record any vocals for it, verses or choruses, scratch vocals or anything? Did they even work on that song during the HIStory sessions, like instrumental, etc. Or is that Babyface demo all there is.

2. About Family Thing - again did Brad or anyone else confirmed is there a more complete version with actual lyrics on the verses, or is the leaked version final version MJ worked on?

3. About Streetwalker. Is there a final version produced by Quincy Jones - that actual outtake that was replaced with Another Part Of Me? Does Brad or anyone else have that version and did he ever play it to fans? All that we have is this new 1986 rough mix and 1988 final Bill Bottrell re-mix.

4. About Faces. Again is that final version? What part of the song was Nelson Mandela supposed to be on? He would recite his part after MJ or he would recite part that Michael is reciting on the leaked version? How come Nelson didn't record anything since they hung out multiple times in 1997 and 1999.

5. About Someone Put Your Hand Out - is that the final version from the Bad era or there is a version with lyrics on the verses? MJ said that all Teddy did on it was "changed a verse".. but if this leaked version is what Teddy was given to work on during the Dangerous era, then Teddy definitely did deserve a co-writing credits because those 2 songs sound completely different but with the same chorus.

6. About Deep In The Night - is there a version with more complete vocal take? Full lyrics or at least mumbling vocals?

7. About Verdict - is there a version with any vocals recorded or at least some more instrumentation? Or the leaked version is all that exists?

I would be really grateful if someone who went to Brad's seminars could answer me these questions!

Thanks!
 
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