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On the linguistics of Michael Jackson

@Agonum

At this stage I don't know whether I'm derailing your thread or just flat out monopolising it, lol.

But ... vocal fry! Who knew? Well, presumably you did but I have never heard of it. Just been reading about some Danish scientific research on toothed whales (Professor Peter Madsen, Aarhus University in Denmark). Apparently the whales use a technique called vocal fry also used by Mick Jagger, Britney Spears, Kurt Cobain, Janis Joplin and Katy Perry. Michael wasn't mentioned in the newspaper article but online I saw a claim that he did use it.

My mind is boggling!
 
zinniabooklover said:
@Agonum

At this stage I don't know whether I'm derailing your thread or just flat out monopolising it, lol.

But ... vocal fry! Who knew? Well, presumably you did but I have never heard of it. Just been reading about some Danish scientific research on toothed whales (Professor Peter Madsen, Aarhus University in Denmark). Apparently the whales use a technique called vocal fry also used by Mick Jagger, Britney Spears, Kurt Cobain, Janis Joplin and Katy Perry. Michael wasn't mentioned in the newspaper article but online I saw a claim that he did use it.

My mind is boggling!
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It’s a popular technique with the youngsters. Trying to come up with a song where Michael does it… 🤔

1st edit: Thinking some more about it, it’s not a common thing for Michael. Maybe he’s done it live sometime. Can’t come up with a single example.
2nd edit: An obvious place of application would be ›I‹, the first word on the first line of the bridge in Earth Song. But Michael doesn’t need vocal fry! 😅
 
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zinniabooklover said:
Pretending to answer your question but really am just brazenly derailing your thread. Here's Michael at that Italian award show.

Approx 2m 50s there are a whole load of really nice 'R's'. Approx 3m 46s he says 'concert'. That always has a good 'R'. Other than that, Michael in the 90's being a rock star? It's hard to concentrate. :ROFLMAO:

Michael at Telegatti, 1997

7m 53s

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His vowel is pretty interesting in that word, too – “cuncert”!

Such a lovely clip. Pavarotti looks starstruck.
 
Agonum said:
His vowel is pretty interesting in that word, too – “cuncert”!
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Yeah, he does this a lot. That particular bit of pronunciation gets a lot of love from his fans. I do like that first syllable but I'm more up for the 'R' sound. Every time he says that word ... ❤️

Agonum said:
Such a lovely clip. Pavarotti looks starstruck.
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It's one of my faves, especially bc it's a bit chaotic. Love that. The whole thing is adorable. They all look pretty star-struck. Him and Pavarotti go offstage looking very pally which is extra adorable.
 

Vocal Hiccup​

Physiology

  1. A rapid inhalation under closed vocal chords. Without exhaling, the vocal chords are released just enough for them to vibrate under that inhalation, thus creating the sound. The phonation can also be thought of as an extreme reverse vocal fry.
  2. (hiccup): an involuntary spasm of the diaphragm and respiratory organs, with a sudden closure of the glottis and a characteristic sound like that of a cough.Garcia, Ramos J, and Solorio A Cobian. “On the glottal activity of experimental hiccup.” -Dictionary
  3. It is a fake hiccup or short stylistic intake of air. -Wikipedia on “Vocal Hiccup”
  4. The act of tensing your stomach and gasping for air at the same time. -Answers.com
Music

The vocal technique is most notably credited to Michael Jackson, and it is referred to by the pop culture community as his “signature.” It is a creative phonation similar to reverse vocal fry. It’s purpose is to add a percussive element between phrases of a song, as well as an emotional intensity.

One Critic of Music describes it this way: “[Michael Jackson’s] vocal ‘hiccups’ (somewhat like gulping for air or gasping) and breathless stutters were legendary. His grunts were achieved with good technique, and added to an already impressive vocal delivery.

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keystovoice.cdh.ucla.edu
 
zinniabooklover said:
But ... vocal fry! […] Apparently the whales use a technique called vocal fry also used by Mick Jagger, Britney Spears, Kurt Cobain, Janis Joplin and Katy Perry. […]
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Britney does it excessively. It’s at the beginning of almost every line in:
Britney Spears / Baby One More Time
 
zinniabooklover said:

Vocal Hiccup​

Physiology

  1. A rapid inhalation under closed vocal chords. Without exhaling, the vocal chords are released just enough for them to vibrate under that inhalation, thus creating the sound. The phonation can also be thought of as an extreme reverse vocal fry.
  2. (hiccup): an involuntary spasm of the diaphragm and respiratory organs, with a sudden closure of the glottis and a characteristic sound like that of a cough.Garcia, Ramos J, and Solorio A Cobian. “On the glottal activity of experimental hiccup.” -Dictionary
  3. It is a fake hiccup or short stylistic intake of air. -Wikipedia on “Vocal Hiccup”
  4. The act of tensing your stomach and gasping for air at the same time. -Answers.com
Music

The vocal technique is most notably credited to Michael Jackson, and it is referred to by the pop culture community as his “signature.” It is a creative phonation similar to reverse vocal fry. It’s purpose is to add a percussive element between phrases of a song, as well as an emotional intensity.

One Critic of Music describes it this way: “[Michael Jackson’s] vocal ‘hiccups’ (somewhat like gulping for air or gasping) and breathless stutters were legendary. His grunts were achieved with good technique, and added to an already impressive vocal delivery.

Account Suspended

keystovoice.cdh.ucla.edu
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Showcase: Who Is It?
 
Agonum said:
Love the video, but am confused as to what this relates to. Is it the way he says ‘s’?
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oh, sorry! It's just general awesomeness and some lovely but low-key 'R's'. Just, you know, Michael's voice.

you could try 46s 'hard work' - the 'R' in 'hard' is lovely, imo. Also the next word, 'rehearsals'. That first 'R' is lovely. The word has one of your 'S's', imo, but it's the 'R' that really sends me.
 
Agonum said:
How did my thread turn into one about vocal techniques!?! 🤣
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Bc it was early morning, no-one was around to chaperone me and I went mad.

In my defence I would say, for me, it's still about pronunciation bc ...

I'll get back to you on that, lol.

P.S. that vocal hiccup article says it's a reverse of vocal fry. That's how it came up in my search.
 
Oh, I eventually remembered one instance of Michael vocal fry @zinniabooklover

Michael Jackson / Dirty Diana

The most prominent example is at 3m 12s, on “I’m”, but he also does it right before, that is, on some other words (“tired”, “come”, “worried”) at the beginning of the third verse.

I thought there would be vocal fry on the last line of the bridge in Be Not Always, but I misremembered. It’s really not something that Michael does a lot.
 
Agonum said:
Oh, I eventually remembered one instance of Michael vocal fry @zinniabooklover

Michael Jackson / Dirty Diana

The most prominent example is at 3m 12s, on “I’m”,
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Yes. I didn't know that was 'vocal fry' but it does stand out.

Agonum said:
but he also does it right before, that is, on some other words (“tired”, “come”, “worried”) at the beginning of the third verse.
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Yes, yes!

Agonum said:
I thought there would be vocal fry on the last line of the bridge in Be Not Always, but I misremembered. It’s really not something that Michael does a lot.
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Agreed. But I've learnt something new and this is dead interesting. :)
 
zinniabooklover said:
oh, I know that. I just meant, I wasn't sure how much emphasis the JW would give to the Hebrew scriptures vs. the Christian ones. The Church of England and the Catholic church have a lectionary of weekly readings which takes them through the entire bible within a set period. I assume JW has a similar system but I don't really know. I was just musing about whether JW teaching would spend more time on Christian scriptures and how likely it was that Michael would be familiar with the story of Naboth. Very familiar, I would imagine.
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It's an equal amount. Right now we're going through 1 Chronicles. And today, the talk was mentioning many parts in Psalms, and Corinthians.

I am one, an active member. Won't debate it at length in the forum but of course will answer questions in PM.
 
oh, that's so cool. Thank you for your answer. I could have looked it up but, as you might be aware, I insist on devoting huge amounts of time to fantasies involving me interviewing Michael. No time for sensible stuff, lol.

I know Prince embraced JW teachings. I understand mainstream Christianity but don't know much at all about JW.

Mister_Jay_Tee said:
It's an equal amount.
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Which is pretty standard across mainstream Christianity. Good to know.

Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Right now we're going through 1 Chronicles. And today, the talk was mentioning many parts in Psalms, and Corinthians.
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That's a cool mix.

Mister_Jay_Tee said:
I am one, an active member. Won't debate it at length in the forum but of course will answer questions in PM.
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Very sensible. Thank you again for your answer.
 
zinniabooklover said:
oh, that's so cool. Thank you for your answer. I could have looked it up but, as you might be aware, I insist on devoting huge amounts of time to fantasies involving me interviewing Michael. No time for sensible stuff, lol.

I know Prince embraced JW teachings. I understand mainstream Christianity but don't know much at all about JW.


Which is pretty standard across mainstream Christianity. Good to know.


That's a cool mix.


Very sensible. Thank you again for your answer.
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Yes of course, my pleasure. And you're talking to a big Prince fan here. I know quite a lot there as well lol.
 
zinniabooklover said:
Michael does* it differently to Chuck Mosley. With Chuck, it doesn't matter if the 'R' is at the beginning, middle or end of a word, it always sounds amazing and quite pronounced. Listening to Michael, in this series of clips, it varies but mostly I think it's about the 'R' being at the end of a word.

* I don't think it's something done deliberately. I don't think Chuck has a lisp but it does sound as if he 'does' his 'R's' bc of his physiology. Pretty sure people don't choose to emphasise one particular letter especially not in normal daily speech.

Michael's voice - 40 years / 40 clips

4m 18s

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@Agonum Here you go.
 
1:56:20
"Should"
/ʃɛːd/
At least I hear it like this instead of the regular weak form containing a schwa. Maybe it's just a slip but when I was watching that, I immediately thought of this thread. Now I'll listen to the whole thing and try to pay more attention.
 
turtleneck_sweater said:
1:56:20
"Should"
/ʃɛːd/
At least I hear it like this instead of the regular weak form containing a schwa. Maybe it's just a slip but when I was watching that, I immediately thought of this thread. Now I'll listen to the whole thing and try to pay more attention.
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I agree, I hear it the same way. That’s a funny pronunciation, isn’t it?

But as you say, it might be but a slip. In other words: Time to go hunting for other unstressed instances of ‘should’!
 
Based on how it sounds, one would think he says ‘shared’…
 
@turtleneck_sweater It must have been a slip up. I remembered there’s a ‘should’ in the first verse of Heaven Can Wait, and that’s pronunced /ʃəd/, that is, in a typical general American way.

Perhaps it’s too early to let go off the matter entirely, though, so I’ll make sure to be on the lookout for further confirmation.
 
About the cot/caught merger…

You’ll hear that African American English (AAVE) has typically resisted this merger, which is why I find it interesting that Michael has not, as made evident by for example “callin’” in Maria (You were the Only One):
[kʰɔɫɪŋ] —￫ [kʰɑɫɪn]​

Michael Jackson / Maria (You were the Only One)

3m 42s
 
Agonum said:
About the cot/caught merger…

You’ll hear that African American English (AAVE) has typically resisted this merger, which is why I find it interesting that Michael has not, as made evident by for example “callin’” in Maria (You were the Only One):
[kʰɔɫɪŋ] —￫ [kʰɑɫɪn]​

Michael Jackson / Maria (You were the Only One)

3m 42s
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My favourite song by baby Mike for... some reasons :)
Nice observation! I hear it, too.
 
My latest finding (post #144) would not seem to gather much interest (to put it mildly), so I will now direct your attention toward another matter.

I suspect that Michael exhibits so called initial /r/ cluster reduction, that is, the /r/ in word-initial consonant clusters is deleted. This is a feature that you will most often find in “thr-” /θr/ combinations.

In Shout, there are two words that would serve to confirm this, namely ”professor” ￫ “pofessor” and “throw” ￫ “thow”. I have given the song a few listenings, but I need your help. I believe the choruses do have it as “thow”, but I am by no means certain.

Michael Jackson / Shout

There may very well be better songs for testing my theory. Suggestions of such are welcomed.
 
Agonum said:
My latest finding (post #144) would not seem to gather much interest (to put it mildly),
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Sorry, mate! It's all too technical for me, lol. Plus I got distracted by Frank and Quincy!

Agonum said:
so I will now direct your attention toward another matter.

I suspect that Michael exhibits so called initial /r/ cluster reduction, that is, the /r/ in word-initial consonant clusters is deleted. This is a feature that you will most often find in “thr-” /θr/ combinations.
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This is also very technical for me. I did hear a good 'r' from Michael fairly recently but didn't catch it and now can't remember what it was. Speech in an interview clip? A fragment from a song? Just can't remember, so ...

Agonum said:
In Shout, there are two words that would serve to confirm this, namely ”professor” ￫ “pofessor” and “throw” ￫ “thow”. I have given the song a few listenings, but I need your help. I believe the choruses do have it as “thow”, but I am by no means certain.
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... I will try to check this out. I heard a good 'r' recently from Kate Bush. I posted her first appearance on TOTP doing WH and had forgotten how much I like the way she does the 'r' in 'greedy'.

"Too hot, too greedy"

But that's not Michael so probably counts as a derail, lol. And I couldn't have a technical convo about it bc my brain doesn't work that way.

Shout is one of my fave songs. So we shall see.

EDIT - @Agonum

I'm gonna have to leave this convo for people who actually understand this stuff. The main problem, in fact, is how I listen to this particular song. I can listen to screechy rock music, for example, with as much detailed, close attention as I would give to a complex piece of classical music. And sometimes I just don't / can't do that. Shout is one of those songs that I always have to choreograph stuff in my head while I'm listening to it. So I just can't pay attention to the 'r' in 'throw'. For the record, I couldn't hear it as 'thow' but in the rush of sound, image, energy not to mention wild emotion, it was never gonna get much of a look in.

Hopefully, someone else will chip in with their two cents.
 
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The öther day, I read that the Great Lakes region have the most extreme differences between white and Black speech in the whole of the United States. I think that’s an interesting thing to contemplate.
 
@Agonum Thanks, right It was strange to me too because i never heard M ever say that. Clearly the article was written by some young journalist i'm sure. (there's loads i could say on that )
However , I think it's certainly a newer phrase ? I have a fantastic thesaurus of slang from that time period... and nope it is not in there as reference haha and as i said i have never heard him use that. and if i can recall not even in the 2005 interview with Geraldo did he say any phrase like that? "the album is coming out / will be coming out " he would always say otherwise?
Anyhow Thanks for getting it. 🤩
 
English is not my mother tongue, but I always assumed that MJ pronounced some words "wrong" on purpose (like kid: "shed", come on: "shamon" etc) - is this slang or did he make it up? I also noticed that he sometimes says "i" instead of "e" or "a" and "e" (any: "eny") - I guess that's some kind of an accent?
 
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