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If you could re-shape Invincible...

Hot_Street said:
1. Unbreakable
2. Heartbreaker
3. Break of Dawn
4. You Rock My World
5. Hollywood Tonight
6. Butterflies
7. Speechless
8. 2000 Watts
9. Shout
10. What More Can I Give Solo Version
11. A Place with No Name
12. We've Had Enough
13. Xscape

Heartbreaker is to Unbreakable, what Shout is to 2000 Watts. They're faster, the next level.
Shout needs clearer, louder vocals.
Xscape is one of the strongest songs from that era.
I'd cut down Unbreakable and Heartbreaker a bit.
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All I know is whatever or whenever we get another Michael Jackson album it better not be like Xscape,that album was horrible, the only.plus that album has is the original versions of the songs
 
ChanceToDance said:
Blue Gangsta wasn't worked on after 1999. APWNN is the Dr Freeze song that was worked on throughout the 2000's.
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Link Here:

Exclusive interview: Dr. Freeze book: "Meeting with Michael, was like meeting with Captain Kirk!"

web.archive.org

Super, we're eager to hear it! Do you intend to retouch the song "Blue Gangsta" the refresh?

(F):. Indeed, it is already done for "blue gangsta". I have already "refreshed", the song is finalized, ready to come out. It will be completely different from the version which is filtered on the net. It is perfectly calibrated to nightclub. It has a very European sound, in the style of Kraftwerk productions.

I know my stuff, see. But it was just a posthumously reworked version for Michael.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Link Here:

Exclusive interview: Dr. Freeze book: "Meeting with Michael, was like meeting with Captain Kirk!"

web.archive.org

Super, we're eager to hear it! Do you intend to retouch the song "Blue Gangsta" the refresh?

(F):. Indeed, it is already done for "blue gangsta". I have already "refreshed", the song is finalized, ready to come out. It will be completely different from the version which is filtered on the net. It is perfectly calibrated to nightclub. It has a very European sound, in the style of Kraftwerk productions.

I know my stuff, see. But it was just a posthumously reworked version for Michael.
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Didn't know this, interesting. By your wording though you said as if MJ and Dr. Freeze were working on the song together throughout the years, but as far as MJ's work on the song goes, it wasn't worked on after 1999.


I would love to hear this remix he made.
 
ChanceToDance said:
Didn't know this, interesting. By your wording though you said as if MJ and Dr. Freeze were working on the song together throughout the years, but as far as MJ's work on the song goes, it wasn't worked on after 1999.


I would love to hear this remix he made.
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No... I said
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Freeze continued tinkering with and preparing the song for Michael to use later
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But it did get a lil buried so I understand missing it.
 
Prince Of Pop said:
1st of all, Rodney Jerkins would not be the main producer. I just don't like most of the stuff he worked on with Michael, and find him extremely overrated. He'd still be involved as a couple songs of his would make the cut, but for this album, my number 1 producers is a couple guys who's been with Michael for decades......Bill Brottrell and Bruce Swedian

2ndly, I would still go with a long track listing, but I'm going to be removing some of the songs I feel are weak, and add better songs from this time period.

Album Title- Whatever Happens

  1. Unbreakable
  2. Blue Gangsta
  3. Break Of Dawn
  4. You Rock My World - (no spoken intro)
  5. Heaven Can Wait
  6. Shout
  7. Butterflies
  8. Speechless
  9. On The Line
  10. You Are My Life
  11. 2000 Watts
  12. Don't Walk Away
  13. One More Chance
  14. Whatever Happens
  15. Threatened
  16. We've Had Enough
Songs cut off the album are The Lost Children, Heartbreaker, Invincible, Privacy and Cry. TLC and Cry are decent songs, but for his "comeback" album, it needed stronger contenders. I would save TLC for a different album or release it as a non album download single. Cry I would have put on a 9/11 tribute album in vein of We Are The World USA For Africa. Heartbreaker, Invincible and Privacy are just duds on this album.

The songs I choose to keep on here IMO are the strongest ones. Shout should have been on here in the first place, and I absolutely love You Are My Life, so both get to be on here. On The Line should have been released by now, it's a great song, uplifiting...it's this albums Man In The Mirror. It's an anthem song that originally is missing from this album. One More Chance I think fits this album perfect, with the "comeback" undertones of it, and I think between the R Kelly tracks not named You Are Not Alone, this is the best one. Blue Gangsta is awesome, I would do a combo job on this one...start the track with the deep low start that the contemporized version starts out with, but as we go into the 1st chorus after the 1st verse, then go into the 2010 version.

I selected Whatever Happens as the title track because I believe it is the strongest and best track of all tracks from this era, including unreleased gems we've heard since then. With the Latin flavor doing well thanks to Santana's Supernatural album, this song was a sure fire number 1 hit song. Sony F'd MJ over big time not pushing this song. This would have certainly given him another number 1 smash.
We've Had Enough is this albums Earth Song and makes a great outro song.
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I absolutely LOVE your picks for the album!!
Especially the inclusion of 'On The Line' which I totally forgot about making this list...
Also 100% agree that Michaels trademark-anthems were completely missing from Invincible, so We've Had Enough would have fitted perfectly👏
 
Richard76 said:
There is no 2010 version of BG. The only versions we can listen: 1998, 1999 and 2014
I really doubt MJ would name his album as "Whatever Happens" He usually used adjectives for this: Bad, Dangerous, Invincible; and sometimes something global and powerful: History, Thriller, Off The Wall. Whatever Happens is neither of that.
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It was intended for the Michael album and leaked in 2010..thus its referred to as the 2010 version...same with Slave To The Rhythm and Do You Know Where Your Children Are versions at the time.

Saying Michael would never call the album Whatever Happens is false too unless you know 100% fact he had no intention of it. IMO you call your album by the strongest song on said album (unless it's a self titled album). IMO Whatever Happens was the best song on Invincible, and also as I said, with the latin flavor hot at the time, and Santana the big reason for that, it would have been a hit song and brought the album major success.

Sometimes you have to think outside the box.
 
Prince Of Pop said:
It was intended for the Michael album and leaked in 2010.
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It didn't leak. Where is this version? He said his version is different what's leaked online.


Prince Of Pop said:
Saying Michael would never call the album Whatever Happens is false too unless you know 100% fact he had no intention of it.
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The fact he chose the name Invincible says already post Thriller, he only does One word titles. That's like the most basic MJ fact. There's no thinking outside the box, it's just making stuff the heck up.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
It didn't leak. Where is this version? He said his version is different what's leaked online.



The fact he chose the name Invincible says already post Thriller, he only does One word titles. That's like the most basic MJ fact. There's no thinking outside the box, it's just making stuff the heck up.
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Except Blood on the Dance Floor. 🤔
 
Also all his albums are strong titles. Whatever Happens is…”yeah this is a bunch of songs. See if it goes down well”. Wouldn’t have helped!
 
Since there is really nothing more I can say about Invincible I will talk about the anticipation I had for the album

The anticipation was rather...low. I was 18 at the time, I was not the impressionable kid anymore who was crazy about MJ, I matured and recognized there was other music out there, I was exploring. I was into Bob Dylan very badly at that time, I never listened to Michael anymore though I naturally still considered myself a fan and everybody recognized me as one too.
But as it goes you know the anticipation grows and I was all there when it leaked and I also bought it the first day of release. I felt like I needed to as a fan but I didn't quite like it much and that feeling hasn't change much over the decades. I had a friend who fell completely head over heels in love with speechless. I thought that was amusing, I enjoyed it a lot that he loved this song so much despite at the time not rating it much myself.

I also was there when the radio debuted YRMW, all radio station in Belgium would play the song at the exact same time and it was advertised hard. My reaction to it was lukewarm, I really expected something epic not a light hearted old school dance tune. Then the video debuted and it left me completely cold. At the time I thought it was awkward, Michael was hiding his face for most of it, I didn't like the choreography except that awesome walk and I also didn't like the theme. Michael again turned up in a suit with a fedora, I was simply not impressed.

This pretty much continued till the day he died. The funeral broke me into pieces and I started rediscovering his music, we're 14 years later now and it hasn't wavered one bit, I listen to him almost daily while Bob Dylan turned into an old relic. Invincible over the years is still my least fave album but the years have uncovered some beauties here and there like Don't walk away, the lost children, speechless, heartbreaker, you are my life.

You know the first love is almost the most special one and MJ's music was my first love and if it wasn't for him I would never have been into music and I would never have discovered so many other amazing artists. I also think he carried a pretty important message with him and his music, it is something that didn't reach me much as a kid but somehow at that age you take it in anyway.
 
I got a two album plan that I think works better overall (in my opinion) - also my information on when some tracks were completed may be incorrect, but from what I've heard/read here's how I woulda gone about it (if Im michael)

Late 1999 -
Album Name: You Rock My World
1. Xscape
2. Get Your Weight Off Me
3. Angel
4. I Can't Make it Another Day
5. Willing and Waiting
6. What You Do To Me
7. Blue Gangsta
8. You Rock My World
9. Tubeway
10. Blue Powder
11. The Way You Love Me

This goes back to more of the RnB sound, with You Rock My World as the lead single still, bringing back that Off the Wall/Bad vibe

Mid 2001 -
Album Name: Unbreakable
1. Shout
2. 2000 Watts
3. Break of Dawn
4. Color of My Soul
5. Cheater
6. Hollywood Tonight
7. Fall Again
8. Butterflies
9. Threatened
10. Whatever Happens
11. We've Had Enough

A more Dangerous type of vibe, with a good mix of conscious songs such as shout/we've had enough, but more classic MJ type songs that invincible lacked, while keeping his sound up to date

- also, on the note of 2000 watts, its such a groovy song, i personally never got the hate for the song, if anything tho it didn't need to be pitched down
 
mj_frenzy said:
Michael Jackson should have included more songs (on the 'Invincible' album) that he worked on with Dr. Freeze (also known as Elliot Straite) because these songs suited him better (in terms of vocals).

In these songs, Michael Jackson's voice sounds more natural, more relaxed, and less strained (another example is 'A Place With No Name', which should have also been on that album).

'We've Had Enough' was actually one of the very first songs that Rodney Jerkins finished for the 'Invincible' album.
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We've had enough should've been on the album over Cry - easily Michael's best socially conscious song since Earth Song and it's not close.

Prince Of Pop said:
1st of all, Rodney Jerkins would not be the main producer. I just don't like most of the stuff he worked on with Michael, and find him extremely overrated. He'd still be involved as a couple songs of his would make the cut, but for this album, my number 1 producers is a couple guys who's been with Michael for decades......Bill Brottrell and Bruce Swedian

2ndly, I would still go with a long track listing, but I'm going to be removing some of the songs I feel are weak, and add better songs from this time period.

Album Title- Whatever Happens

  1. Unbreakable
  2. Blue Gangsta
  3. Break Of Dawn
  4. You Rock My World - (no spoken intro)
  5. Heaven Can Wait
  6. Shout
  7. Butterflies
  8. Speechless
  9. On The Line
  10. You Are My Life
  11. 2000 Watts
  12. Don't Walk Away
  13. One More Chance
  14. Whatever Happens
  15. Threatened
  16. We've Had Enough
Songs cut off the album are The Lost Children, Heartbreaker, Invincible, Privacy and Cry. TLC and Cry are decent songs, but for his "comeback" album, it needed stronger contenders. I would save TLC for a different album or release it as a non album download single. Cry I would have put on a 9/11 tribute album in vein of We Are The World USA For Africa. Heartbreaker, Invincible and Privacy are just duds on this album.

The songs I choose to keep on here IMO are the strongest ones. Shout should have been on here in the first place, and I absolutely love You Are My Life, so both get to be on here. On The Line should have been released by now, it's a great song, uplifiting...it's this albums Man In The Mirror. It's an anthem song that originally is missing from this album. One More Chance I think fits this album perfect, with the "comeback" undertones of it, and I think between the R Kelly tracks not named You Are Not Alone, this is the best one. Blue Gangsta is awesome, I would do a combo job on this one...start the track with the deep low start that the contemporized version starts out with, but as we go into the 1st chorus after the 1st verse, then go into the 2010 version.

I selected Whatever Happens as the title track because I believe it is the strongest and best track of all tracks from this era, including unreleased gems we've heard since then. With the Latin flavor doing well thanks to Santana's Supernatural album, this song was a sure fire number 1 hit song. Sony F'd MJ over big time not pushing this song. This would have certainly given him another number 1 smash.
We've Had Enough is this albums Earth Song and makes a great outro song.
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I am not sure why people like "Blue Gangsta". It sounds like a really bad Smooth Criminal outtake. I mean, really, what is the song actually about? Why is Michael randomly singing about blue gangstas and what does the term mean?

Not a big fan of "On the line", wouldn't include. I think "2000 watts" is frankly a nothing track. It's about nothing. Sounds try hard. Wouldn't have added.

The rest of the track list looks about right. "Xscape" probably could have fit in there. A reworked "Place with no name" as well.

The clear standouts for me are Whatever Happens, We've Had Enough, Break of Dawn, Heaven Can Wait. My personal album -


Unbreakable
Heartbreaker
Break of Dawn
Heaven Can Wait
YRMW
Shout
Butterflies
Whatever Happens
Place with no name
Threatened
We've Had Enough
Xscape

The album still seems to lack something but that was true for Invincible anyway. Either way, it's cut out some of the fat. Got rid of a lot of the "same, same" ballads, and the song Invincible that is just excess to needs when you have Unbreakable and Heartbreaker, neither of which I particularly like but serve to create balance on the record.
 
Hurley509 said:
We've had enough should've been on the album over Cry - easily Michael's best socially conscious song since Earth Song and it's not close.



I am not sure why people like "Blue Gangsta". It sounds like a really bad Smooth Criminal outtake. I mean, really, what is the song actually about? Why is Michael randomly singing about blue gangstas and what does the term mean?

Not a big fan of "On the line", wouldn't include. I think "2000 watts" is frankly a nothing track. It's about nothing. Sounds try hard. Wouldn't have added.

The rest of the track list looks about right. "Xscape" probably could have fit in there. A reworked "Place with no name" as well.

The clear standouts for me are Whatever Happens, We've Had Enough, Break of Dawn, Heaven Can Wait. My personal album -


Unbreakable
Heartbreaker
Break of Dawn
Heaven Can Wait
YRMW
Shout
Butterflies
Whatever Happens
Place with no name
Threatened
We've Had Enough
Xscape

The album still seems to lack something but that was true for Invincible anyway. Either way, it's cut out some of the fat. Got rid of a lot of the "same, same" ballads, and the song Invincible that is just excess to needs when you have Unbreakable and Heartbreaker, neither of which I particularly like but serve to create balance on the record.
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Tru dat…It can’t be Invincible if it doesn’t have Invincible 😂
 
FMJP said:
- also, on the note of 2000 watts, its such a groovy song, i personally never got the hate for the song, if anything tho it didn't need to be pitched down
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It wasn't sped up like many of his songs. That's why he sounds deep.
 
Hurley509 said:
We've had enough should've been on the album over Cry - easily Michael's best socially conscious song since Earth Song and it's not close.



I am not sure why people like "Blue Gangsta". It sounds like a really bad Smooth Criminal outtake. I mean, really, what is the song actually about? Why is Michael randomly singing about blue gangstas and what does the term mean?

Not a big fan of "On the line", wouldn't include. I think "2000 watts" is frankly a nothing track. It's about nothing. Sounds try hard. Wouldn't have added.

The rest of the track list looks about right. "Xscape" probably could have fit in there. A reworked "Place with no name" as well.

The clear standouts for me are Whatever Happens, We've Had Enough, Break of Dawn, Heaven Can Wait. My personal album -


Unbreakable
Heartbreaker
Break of Dawn
Heaven Can Wait
YRMW
Shout
Butterflies
Whatever Happens
Place with no name
Threatened
We've Had Enough
Xscape

The album still seems to lack something but that was true for Invincible anyway. Either way, it's cut out some of the fat. Got rid of a lot of the "same, same" ballads, and the song Invincible that is just excess to needs when you have Unbreakable and Heartbreaker, neither of which I particularly like but serve to create balance on the record.
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Sources from Sony Music revealed that the inclusion of 'Cry' was because the record company thought that this song would also achieve a similar huge commercial and chart success like R. Kelly's 'I Believe I Can Fly' song (which was released a few years earlier).

Note that it was a period in which R. Kelly used to have the Midas touch in songs that he was involved in, and Sony Music wanted to capitalize on that (another example is 'You Are Not Alone').

Michael Jackson should have never recorded and released the 'On The Line' song, because he tries to sound like Babyface.

Michael Jackson was Michael Jackson, and there was no point in trying to sound like Babyface.

'2000 Watts' is said to lyrically revolve around sexual connotations, innuendos and metaphors.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Yes and this one was slowed down. Pitched down. That's a fact as well. But that's okay.

But I take it back, you're not mjfrenzy level. No where near that bad.
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is mjfrenzy that bad? He is probably admin on this forum. Are you not afraid, that he can ban you?
 
Unbreakable

1. Unbreakable
2. Threatened
3. Break Of Dawn
4. We've Had Enough
5. You Rock My World
6. Xscape
7. Whatever Happens
8. Speechless
9. She Was Lovin' Me
10. A Place With No Name

So that would be the tracklist I'd go for, taking into account the songs that were finished enough to be considered and what we've heard from the Invincible sessions.

I'd try to make it more like a typical Michael album, less ballad heavy that way you focus on the 1 or 2 ballads on the record. Shorter in runtime but no fat on the album and crucially no 2 songs truly similar.

The holy trinity of the album would be YRMW, Xscape and Whatever Happens. In keeping with tradition of Mike's albums having a run of 3 excellent tracks grouped together.

*I'm not concerned with the 2 S tracks following each other, because Mike didn't care about that on Thriller, look how that worked out
 
Salami said:
Also all his albums are strong titles. Whatever Happens is…”yeah this is a bunch of songs. See if it goes down well”. Wouldn’t have helped!
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MJ releases are meant to feel like the latest film in an iconic film franchise. That's what they all gave me. Off The Wall is a bit of an outlier but Frankly it just makes that record more enjoyable. It's like a start to the lineage, and a farewell to the earlier days. Your Got To Be There, Ben, Music & Me, Forever Michael days were past.

Then you even have Destiny, Triumph, Victory. Great additions to the further universe of the MJ canon.

This Is It isn't part of the canon but as the grand finale to MJs career, well, you literally can't do any better, now can you?

That's why I have another reason to find Michael a disappointment. That is way too sentimental a name; he would've never done that. They got away with it then but never again. The album cover as well. Though he did commission that art, it doesn't work for an album. Again, they got away with it, I guess.

Xscape, though? That's a true return to form. It's different, it's not a noun like the others; it's a verb. This isn't MJ as you knew him but it's in the fashion of his greatest records, with all the edge you can, and I really just, love it. They had it so easy. If they ever do it again, they gotta keep that energy. Monster, Rocker, Legacy. Please, give us one more fire name.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
MJ releases are meant to feel like the latest film in an iconic film franchise. That's what they all gave me. Off The Wall is a bit of an outlier but Frankly it just makes that record more enjoyable. It's like a start to the lineage, and a farewell to the earlier days. Your Got To Be There, Ben, Music & Me, Forever Michael days were past.

Then you even have Destiny, Triumph, Victory. Great additions to the further universe of the MJ canon.

This Is It isn't part of the canon but as the grand finale to MJs career, well, you literally can't do any better, now can you?

That's why I have another reason to find Michael a disappointment. That is way too sentimental a name; he would've never done that. They got away with it then but never again. The album cover as well. Though he did commission that art, it doesn't work for an album. Again, they got away with it, I guess.

Xscape, though? That's a true return to form. It's different, it's not a noun like the others; it's a verb. This isn't MJ as you knew him but it's in the fashion of his greatest records, with all the edge you can, and I really just, love it. They had it so easy. If they ever do it again, they gotta keep that energy. Monster, Rocker, Legacy. Please, give us one more fire name.
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Dangerous, Bad, and Invincible are adjectives, though.
 
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