Michael Jackson v. Wade Robson, a new trial to be held

Sorry I don't need to "humanize" MJ based on my neighbors in suburbia or wherever. As long as he didn't do anything against the law he has the right to do whatever he wants to, even if I or my stupid neighbors don't approve of it.
That is so naive. Just because something is not illegal makes it ok to do them. Thats why the public doubts Michaels behaviour, its morally not ok as an adult to hang around with kids. Thats all im saying.

So you're telling me that if your neighbor is friends with lots of kids its wrong (Even if its innocent like Michael) but if Michael does it its fine because its 'MICHAEL JACKSON' and he raised money for charity.
 
There truly are fairly compelling cases for and against, and the cases "for" often aren't the things the accusers say so much as it is the context of the situations Michael put himself in. I am yet to see a solid accuser. It really would only take a single consistent accuser to prove the claim to the world but so far, we don't have anything like that and I don't think that person exists.

There was an obsession and preoccupation with children though that still remains hard to explain for me. We can only take the 'lost childhood' so far. I struggle to connect a lost childhood to having other people's boys in your bed. I struggle to connect the lost children to dolls of children and photos and paintings of them and this absolute veneration he seemed to have for them.

There are certainly photos of Michael with Jimmy Safechuck all cuddly which look like couples photos and would make even the biggest MJ fan feel a bit of cringe in their stomach.

And further to the questions about Michael, the artificial inseminating of his kids. You have to ask why? Why would he not just have normal, human, heterosexual sex with a woman and impregnate her? Yeah, Debbie Rowe probably wouldn't have been anyone's choice for that task, but he was MICHAEL ****** JACKSON. Surely there was a gorgeous woman out there who would have happily bore his children and done the deed with him. Why did he not take the route almost all men would have?

Why is the marriage to Lisa Marie Presley so fraught with questions on its legitimacy and timing?

You can't just not ask these questions. I think we like to put it in the "too hard basket". We're fans. We're effected by his music and his artistry. But none of us actually know Michael Jackson to say anything for sure about his personal behaviour. But certainly he did a lot of things - A LOT - that bring his character into question.

But so far, every claim has fallen apart. We've seen nothing but grifters, people with imaginative memories, fathers with movie dreams and financial aspirations and the like. We've not seen anyone come through as an honest victim who has put sharing their truth above the dollar signs.

You can still be a good person but do bad things.

In his mind, he was Peter Pan , he was the saviour of children and loved them unconditionally so for him, whatever he was doing he considered normal.

Let's be honest, if he was your next door neighbour he would have been locked up decades ago.

I'm on the fence as to where I stand, I don't want to believe this stuff but when I weigh up his behaviour, it does make you question what he was doing.

This is where I'd lean if he did it. He asks in an interview "where's the jack the ripper in the room?" Well... he wasn't jack the ripper I don't think.

But I think there is a chance he "may" have been a man who legitimately, in his own mind, "fell in love" with boys. And he may not have thought that love was in any way wrong. He can be all the things that he believes himself to be - the giver - the entertainer - the musician - the King of Pop - the genius - and he may justify other nefarious actions to himself by the fact that the world simply "doesn't understand".

These are legitimate questions.

But once again, Leaving Neverland falls apart under inspection. That could be, as has been said before, because children's memories of things decades later can be a funny thing, but it could also be because it's all absolute bullshit. We legitimately do not know. I certainly hope it's bullshit.

As fans we need to accept we didn't personally know Michael Jackson. It is well known away from the camera he adopted a deeper voice and became less effeminate. We know Michael created a mystique around himself to keep fans and the media guessing. We are defending our perception and image of Michael Jackson but we can only speculate.
 
I called him naive before BUT still I am convinced MJ didn't stop having children visit Neverland (and let them in his room) after the '93 allegations was because of his desire to show what he truly did for children there. Stupid? Yes, in hindsight. But also understandable, since this was what he basically grew up with (at Hayvenhurst there were also fans and kids around all the time; enjoying the little zoo, pool, garden etc.) and which was his dream a place for sick and poor children too have a nice time

Also, a different thing I would like people to think about is him hanging around with old people. Now it's always about him hanging out with children but he also hung out with people older than him a lot. All his 'friends' from around Off The wall were old actors and diva's; Katherine Hepburn, Liza Minelli, Jane Fonda and all the classic dancers. So it's much more about why he didn't like to hang out with people his age than it's about children imo
 
I called him naive before BUT still I am convinced MJ didn't stop having children visit Neverland (and let them in his room) after the '93 allegations was because of his desire to show what he truly did for children there. Stupid? Yes, in hindsight. But also understandable, since this was what he basically grew up with (at Hayvenhurst there were also fans and kids around all the time; enjoying the little zoo, pool, garden etc.) and which was his dream a place for sick and poor children too have a nice time

Also, a different thing I would like people to think about is him hanging around with old people. Now it's always about him hanging out with children but he also hung out with people older than him a lot. All his 'friends' from around Off The wall were old actors and diva's; Katherine Hepburn, Liza Minelli, Jane Fonda and all the classic dancers. So it's much more about why he didn't like to hang out with people his age than it's about children imo
Yes, and also Marlon Brando and Liz Taylor that basically lived there for long periods of time. Another thing that isn't mentioned is that he actually surrounded himself with families, not just with boys. I believe his greatest wish was to have a huge family.
 
There was an obsession and preoccupation with children though that still remains hard to explain for me. We can only take the 'lost childhood' so far.
Michael literally said he wanted to be like Jesus and Jesus famously taught the children. Mikes methods were not the same, but it's really not a headscratcher, between that and the, yes, lost childhood.
 
This is a news article so it's in the appropriate section of the forum.

What makes you so certain that the estate will win? What if the unthinkable happens and they don't?

It's over for MJ's already tainted legacy. Any potential small win that these fools get will be considered as a guilty verdict.
His legacy is nowhere near tainted lmao! Michaels influence is seen everywhere and he has an incredibly successful broadway show about his life going right now. Where is that tainted?
 
Please stop comparing him to your next door neighbors!
Yea! Also can we stop dragging others into this thread. It’s already confusing enough and we don’t need to do ‘comparisons’ because some of us don’t know to much about that comparison. So stop please.
 
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Yea! Also can we stop dragging others into this thread. It’s already confusing enough and we don’t need to do ‘comparisons’ because some of us don’t know to much about that comparison. So stop please.
No we should stop making excuses for some of Michaels morally wrong actions (like some do) for the sake of him being 'Michael Jackson' and put Michael on a pedastale and pretending he is inviolable, he is human like you and I. Some fans seem to defend everything he did and just pretend he never did or could do anything wrong.

Comparing him to your neighbour gives a scope outside of Michael being this big famous star and you can reflect his actions.

You can also be a fan and think rationally while also loving him, his music, for who he was and the struggles in his life.
 
No we should stop making excuses for some of Michaels morally wrong actions (like some do) for the sake of him being 'Michael Jackson' and put Michael on a pedastale and pretending he is inviolable, he is human like you and I. Some fans seem to defend everything he did and just pretend he never did or could do anything wrong.

Comparing him to your neighbour gives a scope outside of Michael being this big famous star and you can reflect his actions.

You can also be a fan and think rationally while also loving him, his music, for who he was and the struggles in his life.
But is it sure the actions were morally wrong in the first place? I'm definitely not progagating sleepovers between men and children, and would not let my son alone with anyone myself, but what if his actions were as totally pure as he said and the circumstances were true that the kids were not invited to sleep but wanted to sleep in his room, or they just fell asleep while playing; what's immoral? Hindsight? Culture? The parents obviously trusted him, why did they? Because they truly were bribed? Felt sorry for him? Really? OR was it because they actually saw that the situation was trustworthy and innocent? That's what makes more sense to me tbh..

Also him growing up probably never experiencing sleeping alone in the first place, always together with his brothers and musicians on the road must be taken into account for understanding him having a kid to mentor/show the world, that also stays at night (he probably was working, gaming, watching movies most of the time anyway btw, he was notoriously insomniac)
 
But is it sure the actions were morally wrong in the first place? I'm definitely not progagating sleepovers between men and children, and would not let my son alone with anyone myself, but what if his actions were as totally pure as he said and the circumstances were true that the kids were not invited to sleep but wanted to sleep in his room, or they just fell asleep while playing; what's immoral? Hindsight? Culture? The parents obviously trusted him, why did they? Because they truly were bribed? Felt sorry for him? Really? OR was it because they actually saw that the situation was trustworthy and innocent? That's what makes more sense to me tbh..

Also him growing up probably never experiencing sleeping alone in the first place, always together with his brothers and musicians on the road must be taken into account for understanding him having a kid to mentor/show the world, that also stays at night (he probably was working, gaming, watching movies most of the time anyway btw, he was notoriously insomniac)
This is an interesting question indeed. I think when most people (depending on the area you live in) does not accept your behaviour and think its weird you could argue its 'morally wrong'. It ruining his image even more than it already was..

But I see some fans here almost denying that his relationships with kids is a little odd to say the least. Him being charitable and loving kids coming from his childhood are not reasons to then say 'oh then its fine'. Thats also why I gave the example of a neighbour but I for some reason I cant compare him with a normal person according to some here..

I hope the biopic is going to educate people on the PERSON Michael Jackson, I hope people will have more sympathy for him.

I have said enough in this threat which has been a little heated and dont want people to start to hate me😅. I think Michael is 100% innocent.
All im saying is we have to been rationally even when talking about the person we are huge fan off.
 
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@BuffaloBill87

C’mon man, we understand and know by now you are majorly conflicted, the message got through now let it rest. Why do you keep repeating yourself, what are you trying to gain? We will see how it ends that is all we can do and it is up to each individual how to interpret the outcome.

Saying MJ would have been locked up decades ago if he was a mere simple Joe makes no sense at all. That’s pretty much saying you think he is a molestor. You are in your right to think that but you also have to understand the majority of people here are in he other camp. Don’t turn this into a never ending war of words. If I was a mod I’d lock this thread until things start moving because this is going nowhere.
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Also bringing in other celebrities is pointless, each case is different and when it comes to Elvis there never even was a case to begin with. If we’re going to curse on Robson because Michael can’t defend himself any longer then it would be very hypocritical of some of us doing the same with Elvis.
 
@BuffaloBill87

C’mon man, we understand and know by now you are majorly conflicted, the message got through now let it rest. Why do you keep repeating yourself, what are you trying to gain? We will see how it ends that is all we can do and it is up to each individual how to interpret the outcome.

Saying MJ would have been locked up decades ago if he was a mere simple Joe makes no sense at all. That’s pretty much saying you think he is a molestor. You are in your right to think that but you also have to understand the majority of people here are in he other camp. Don’t turn this into a never ending war of words. If I was a mod I’d lock this thread until things start moving because this is going nowhere.
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Also bringing in other celebrities is pointless, each case is different and when it comes to Elvis there never even was a case to begin with. If we’re going to curse on Robson because Michael can’t defend himself any longer then it would be very hypocritical of some of us doing the same with Elvis.
Because I'm concerned that so many MJ fans at least on here) believe that his behaviour with children was acceptable.

It wasn't and has never been. There's also the denial that these allegations had no impact on his career. I'm thinking to myself, what the hell is going on here.

Michael's career was never the same since 93, I'm not talking about music sales or tickets sold. I'm talking about his image , it was forever tarnished.

You cannot go on a video or Facebook post without someone(or many) saying he's a paedophile or nonce. This is what I would call major damage to his image.
 
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Michael's career was never the same since 93, I'm not talking about music sales or tickets sold. I'm talking about his image , it was forever tarnished.

You cannot go on a video or Facebook post without someone(or many) saying he's a paedophile or nonce. This is what I would call major damage to his image.
very true
 
What behavior are you talking about?
Having special kid friends who would stay with him whilst on tour, dress up like him, sit on his knee at awards shows etc - I could go on and on..sleepovers blah blah

You know the type of behaviour I'm talking about.
 
Because I'm concerned that so many MJ fans at least on here) believe that his behaviour with children was acceptable.

It wasn't and has never been. There's also the denial that these allegations had no impact on his career. I'm thinking to myself, what the hell is going on here.

Michael's career was never the same since 93, I'm not talking about music sales or tickets sold. I'm talking about his image , it was forever tarnished.

You cannot go on a video or Facebook post without someone(or many) saying he's a paedophile or nonce. This is what I would call major damage to his image.

And you're just here to repeat this ad nauseam I guess?
 
Having special kid friends who would stay with him whilst on tour, dress up like him, sit on his knee at awards shows etc - I could go on and on..sleepovers blah blah

You know the type of behaviour I'm talking about.
we have the choice to believe his side of the story, his words and his lyrics. they do make sense.
or believe the liars.
 
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