Would you say the HIStory album is a masterpiece of artistry (even by MJ’s standards) or an attempt to be “trendy”?

A really underrated track. It it always sounded kinda unfinished to me, I can't explain why.
It's because it has all the fundamentals of an MJ self composition (The looping beatbox, the sparse rhythm) but it doesn't have the same amount of polish as say, Billie Jean, or Who Is It. I appreciate it for that though.
Smile first part is really good. It could have been a great track but, sadly, When the 90s drums starts, It instantly dates the whole track, and that's really unfortunate.
I don't know what's bad about that. It's a 90s song. It's allowed to sound like the 90s.
 
He'd have had to have been invited or have wanted to, and I can't imagine he saw it as necessary. According to Jermaine he would've tried again in 2011.
They would have bent over backwards for him, the question is was it a mistake on MJ's part by not looking into doing it again
 
They would have bent over backwards for him, the question is was it a mistake on MJ's part by not looking into doing it again
I'm not sure about that. Mike had a lot of bad media coverage later in life. The big outcry about the Janet & Justin Timberlake performance in 2004 would not have helped either. There were lawsuits & FCC fines about that and Janet's career kind of went downhill after, but nothing really happened to Justin though. A lot of people who watch the NFL are "middle America" and I don't think they would want to turn off that part of the audience by having a controversial singer who is the brother of the newly controversial singer that had the "wardrobe malfunction".
 
I'm not sure about that. Mike had a lot of bad media coverage later in life. The big outcry about the Janet & Justin Timberlake performance in 2004 would not have helped either. There were lawsuits & FCC fines about that and Janet's career kind of went downhill after, but nothing really happened to Justin though. A lot of people who watch the NFL are "middle America" and I don't think they would want to turn off that part of the audience by having a controversial singer who is the brother of the newly controversial singer that had the "wardrobe malfunction".
None of that was Janet's fault and she deserved none of that. "middle America" is just annoyed white people.
 
I'm not sure about that. Mike had a lot of bad media coverage later in life. The big outcry about the Janet & Justin Timberlake performance in 2004 would not have helped either. There were lawsuits & FCC fines about that and Janet's career kind of went downhill after, but nothing really happened to Justin though. A lot of people who watch the NFL are "middle America" and I don't think they would want to turn off that part of the audience by having a controversial singer who is the brother of the newly controversial singer that had the "wardrobe malfunction".
The 30th anniversary concert was seen by a total of 45 million in the United States, nearly 40% of the total super bowl audience two months later. There was nobody else capable of doing numbers like Mike even though it wasn't even comparable to his absurd numbers in 80s and 90s. Had he extended a offer they'd accept him with open arms for the super bowl
 
The 30th anniversary concert was seen by a total of 45 million in the United States, nearly 40% of the total super bowl audience two months later. There was nobody else capable of doing numbers like Mike even though it wasn't even comparable to his absurd numbers in 80s and 90s. Had he extended a offer they'd accept him with open arms for the super bowl
A football audience and a audience who would watch a Michael Jackson concert are 2 different things. It's like the artists who perform at Farm Aid and the audience who watches that are mostly different from the ones for Live Aid. A lot of rednecks are NFL fans, who are less likely to be into the type of music Michael Jackson does or guys who have makeup on. Football players are considered to be traditional manly macho men. Anyway, it doesn't really matter how many people would watch a Michael Jackson halftime, if a large amount of NFL fans boycott watching the game itself. That one time would hurt the NFL brand in the long term. Like people complaining about Beyoncé's Superbowl performance with Black Panthers imagery (not the Marvel superhero, but the 1960s Black Panther Party).
None of that was Janet's fault and she deserved none of that. "middle America" is just annoyed white people.
Well that same middle America is why NFL player Colin Kaepernick lost his job for protesting during the national anthem.
 
I don’t think anybody was waiting for a second superbowl halftime show. What was he going to do, another moonwalk on billie jean then man in the mirror or earth song or heal the world…

I never saw the big deal in his first halftime mimefest either. I’m happy everybody sees it as iconic though.
 
You're not in the business of managing music charts and their efficiency either, so don't worry about if it makes sense or not. It's not our fault or choice either, it just is.
It's fine. I'm just explaining to you why only one chart is necessary, and why all the others are a waste of time, they exist only for marketing reasons, and that's why the rest of the world laughs at America. That's all.

Well maybe don't make comments like "make it more than guns and jewellery and it would sell better" if you don't know what you're talking about and don't have an interest in being informed.
You're misunderstanding me. I don't care if rap music sells or not. I don't care if any music sells or not.

I don't think Michael was trying to follow any trends when making HIStory. HIStory was a much needed and necessary album for Michael to make. After 1993 he had a lot to get off his chest and he was always better expressing himself through his music than he was in interviews.

The album is called HIS story so of course it's going to be a very personal album.
Yep, spot on. It literally says it on the front cover.

Should Michael have done the Super Bowl halftime show again?
No. Not needed.

closed the show with Man in the Mirror due to 9/11 and his sales would have significantly went up.
Ugh. What's wrong with you?!

Had he extended a offer they'd accept him with open arms for the super bowl
That's... really not how that works.

- Earth Song. Guy Pratt bass adds a lot to it ❤️ The last section is among Michael's best vocal run in his discography
Thinking about it now, I'd probably say Earth Song was the best song of the 90s, from any artist.

- Little Susie is a great song, the lyrics elevates it
This is the one song that really makes me want to crank up the volume as high as I can.

- Come Together and Tabloid Junkie. But, In both cases, i would have appreciate them better on a different album (BAD and Dangerous respectively).
Interesting way of thinking about it. I wonder what people would have thought if Come Together was the CD bonus track instead of LMA

- History. It tries way to hard to be anthemic, it feels forced to me (the use of sound samples from historical events, the over the top production: choirs, orchestra, the Boys II Men, etc ).
Interesting point. I guess it is too long.

What do you think of some of the remixes of that song?
 
IIRC:
- They Don't Care About Us / Earth Song were started in Dangerous sessions
- Tabloid Junkie / Come Together were started during BAD sessions
- Stranger In Moscow music was repurposed from Sonic 3 sessions
- Little Susie was started around Off The Wall sessions
-Smile was a cover

Is it correct?
 
I'm just explaining to you why only one chart is necessary, and why all the others are a waste of time, they exist only for marketing reasons, and that's why the rest of the world laughs at America. That's all.
You're not "explaining" anything. You're wasting the use of my educational ability is what you're doing.
 
Yes so I was under the same impression but then I thought 'Michael basically wasn't someone to change a winning concept and so probably wanted to continue making albums like the ones before: a little something for everyone/family entertainment/same personal themes. That's why I now doubt History is that unique:

'Scream': anti press, just like 'Why You Wanna Trip'/'Leave Me Alone' e.a., 'They Don't Care About Us': same, but more an anthem like 'Man In The Mirror'. 'Stranger In Moscow' could have been created as a result of the allegations but is still about loneliness in general and there are also more MJ sings around that theme (Scared of The Moon, Someone in the Dark, She's Out of my life e.a.). Earth Song is in the vein of 'We Are The World, Heal The World etc. So 'This Time Around' is probably about the allegations but in that case so subtle that it is still debatable imo and Biggie's lyrics make it more about backstabbers in general too.
'Money' may seem inspired by the allegations but doesn't mention it at all and throughout the song all kinds of greedy people are being named, making it even more of a generalized song. 'Come Together': I don't even know why that was on History in the first place, but it's definitely not about the allegations. 'History', the song, is a motivational track like 'Keep The Faith' e.a. 'You Are Not Alone': is just a love song, 'Tabloid Junkie' is about the press again; mainly rumours about his sexuality and general slander. 'Smile' is about overcoming sadness in general, The ad libs of '2Bad' make it sound like it was actually meant as a sequel to 'Bad' and lyrically I guess it's about general slander again. 'Little Susie' is about child neglection; also a very common MJ theme.

So 'Childhood' is him explaining his childlike behaviour. I agree that this one was probably written in response to the allegations, but it could also be written after opening about his childhood to Oprah and then mentioning his difficult past several other times after that (but before the allegations). Seeing it like that 'D.S.' would be the only track that is, without a reasonable doubt, about the allegations and would be out of place on any of his previous albums; making History pretty much a regular Michael Jackson studio album..?
Update: It seems from this clip that even 'Scream' was not about his allegations but about social injustice (Rodney King?)

From 23:30 till 23:40:

 
HIStory as far as overall imagery and aesthetics, I think it flies far and away above most of the others. The artwork and the overall messaging... It's like incandescent. It's the definition in practice of "art that has bound the soul of its artist" to it.
 
HIStory as far as overall imagery and aesthetics, I think it flies far and away above most of the others. The artwork and the overall messaging... It's like incandescent. It's the definition in practice of "art that has bound the soul of its artist" to it.
What makes it different than the other albums..?
 
What makes it different than the other albums..?
Off The Wall has a theme but it's simple. Thriller doesn't really, it's iconism outlasts any intention. Bad has one but arguably it was meant to only go for so long and can easily be divorced from the songs. Invincible was meant to be the intro to the 21st century but it wasn't really a statement, so much as a return to basics. It's a bit reduced since there was no true follow up either.

Dangerous is the only other record that really says something that communicated an entirely encompassing message, "The World of Michael Jackson" as it were. The artwork definitely states that as well. But the songs themselves are each varying degrees of complex.

HIStory definitely has the appeal of "Legacy" attached. From the look to the themes. It screams "study this like curriculum". You can take a deeper meaning from basically each track and people have. So it warrants that message.
 
HIStory is probably Michael's most emotionally diverse solo album, period. "Scream", "They Don't Care About Us", "2 Bad", and "D.S." are clear vengeance tracks, while "This Time Around", "Money", and "Tabloid Junkie" follow the trend set by "Leave Me Alone" condemning the media. "Earth Song", "Childhood", "Stranger in Moscow", and "Little Susie" are laments, though about different subjects. "You Are Not Alone" is the most hopeful song of the bunch, and while "Smile" and "Come Together" are both covers, the latter is obviously a nod to MJ's appreciation for the Beatles. Finally, the title track is pretty much a past commentary on steroids, more than anything with one particular focus.
 
Yeah, and in a way that's a weakness of the album. It means the songs are a lot less relatable.

Like, I'm not inside Michael's head, so how am I supposed to understand about media harassment? I have no experience of being strip-searched, or losing my childhood, or needing a security team, so I find that stuff really hard to care about.

That's probably a reason very few songs on HIStory get any meaningful cover versions. They're just too personal to MJ. I can play DS on guitar, but I'd never play it outside my house...
I love the fact that he „can‘t“ be covered easily and very seldomly!

And for the rest, although you are right in the point that most of his audience is not in MJs shoes/living his life:
Empathy & genuine love for the man, makes you understand where he is coming from & can make you feel the things he is talking about.
 
May be HIStory wasn't Michael's biggest commercial success. But some songs from the album have become iconic over time. They Don't Care About Us is one of Michael's best known songs, and has proven to be relevant decades later. Earth Song is by many considered his magnum opus. The longevity of these songs show the album isn't just an attempt to be 'trendy' in the nineties.
Thinking of that tdcau & es could have made the Dangerous album. Could have pushed the album sales exponentially.
 
I'd even argue that HIStory is the MJ album that tries the least to be trendy. It's the truest statement of MJs sound if U will
It's also a great demonstration of the mid 90s sound, that period post New Jack Swing, post the explosion of grunge, but before the pre-millennium sound that urban and R&B took. But obviously there's way more strains of vintage influence thrown into the mix, sounds that could be traced pre-Dangerous, pre-Off The Wall even.
 
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HIStory is a masterpiece of artistry because it is a concept album, that has various cross-connections between the songs on disc 1 and disc 2.

Examples:
Disc 1, song 15: Heal the World & Disc 2, song 15: Smile
smiling as a way to heal

Disc 1, song 1: Billie Jean & Disc 2, song 1: Scream
Billie Jean: be careful of what you do, cause the lie becomes the truth
Scream: You try to cope with every lie they scrutinize
 
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HIStory is a masterpiece of artistry because it is a concept album, that has various cross-connections between the songs on disc 1 and disc 2.

Examples:
Disc 1, song 15: Heal the World & Disc 2, song 15: Smile
Smiling as a way to heal the world.

Disc 1, song 1: Billie Jean & Disc 2, song 1: Scream
Billie Jean: be careful of what you do, cause the lie becomes the truth
Scream: You try to cope with every lie they scrutinize
Disc 1, song 6: Bad & Disc 2, song 6: D.S.
Bad: Your talk is cheap, you're not a man
D.S.: He don't do half what he say
 
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With every artist, and a new allegation, all of them immediately flounder in the wind. Michael was the only one to keep his composure and create art. That's special, that makes a masterpiece.
 
I feel like a few songs are a masterpiece but a few songs mike could have done better. I'd say a mix of both
(just my opinion if you disagree that's fine just no need to hate)
 
I think it was the one album that he was really a full blown artist. The deeper and more adult lyrics, the themes, the concept. I think it was the only album of his that really was artistic and it was coming from his heart, not from a desire to be trendy. History paired with BOTDF felt like the direction I wanted him to go as an adult. Then he released Invincible lol

Even if people go like "but he did that in Dangerous," it's kinda true but he really found his footing in History. Earth Song is so much more complex than Heal the World, TDCAU is much more complex and at same time simpler than Jam or WDYWTOM, Scream felt a lot personal than anything else, and so on and so forth
 
idk if HIStory was trying to be "trendy" some of the songs on the album have the mid 90s rnb vibe but then some of them for some reason give me new jack swing adjacent vibes. which new jack swing was fading out by '95. but this is just my opinion. great album though! I love it, i love his collab with janet. i love his songs about the media, love it all!!
 
I think it was the one album that he was really a full blown artist. The deeper and more adult lyrics, the themes, the concept. I think it was the only album of his that really was artistic and it was coming from his heart, not from a desire to be trendy. History paired with BOTDF felt like the direction I wanted him to go as an adult. Then he released Invincible lol

Even if people go like "but he did that in Dangerous," it's kinda true but he really found his footing in History. Earth Song is so much more complex than Heal the World, TDCAU is much more complex and at same time simpler than Jam or WDYWTOM, Scream felt a lot personal than anything else, and so on and so forth
"Then he released Invincible lol" His best album ever???? (I genuinely love Invincible. History and Dangerous are tied for second, with Bad in third.)
 
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