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Michael Jackson was less involved in Off The Wall creating process comparing to Invincible album?

Masonh

Masonh

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Workin' Day and Night is the only song Michael wrote in solo.

Rock with You

Off The Wall

Girlfriend

She Is Out of My life

and many others are not Michael's song at all. They were gifted to Michael just like Whatever Happens, Cry, Threatened.

But the point is that Invincible had 2 songs, Michael wrote by himself. And Off The Wall had only one. People like to criticize Invincible for Michael being less contributed, but they forgot that he was even less involved during Off The Wall.
 
A very good idea for a thread.
One could compare Michael's versions of the albums with the original versions to make his involvement transparent. I'm thinking especially of Girlfriend and Whatever Happens.
 
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I'm not sure that it's entirely accurate that MJ wrote 1 song for OTW, I thought it was 3 but I could be wrong.

I think the answer is that MJ in the 80s was just a different breed to MJ in the 00s. If you listen to the interviews of people who worked with him in both periods, there are some comparisons but also some very notable differences in how MJ worked on those albums.
 
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Even if it was true that MJ was less involved in Off The Wall than he was with Invincible (he wasn't, just so you know and you can tell this by all the interviews -by Jenkins, Riley vs those by Quincy, Bruce etc) are you seriously comparing an artist creating his first album as an adult vs the same man 20 plus years later with 6 of the biggest selling albums of all time under his belt?

MJ wasted a lot of money not even turning up to work during the Invincible sessions. During the OTW sessions MJ was like a sponge trying to learn everything he could. MJ even got writing credits on songs he had no input in writing on Invincible. On Off The Wall MJ was only credited with what he wrote and contributed to - and a deaf person can hear what those are.

Invincible is what it is.
 
The 'Invincible' album sounds more impersonal compared to the 'Off The Wall' album.

That is why, the 'Invincible' album is negatively criticized more by his fans.

Also, with so many outside songwriters and producers on the 'Invincible' album, it can be said that Michael Jackson sounds like a guest artist on his own album.
 
jasmine.uddin said:
I'm not sure that it's entirely accurate that MJ wrote 1 song for OTW, I thought it was 3 but I could be wrong.

I think the answer is that MJ in the 80s was just a different breed to MJ in the 00s. If you listen to the interviews of people who worked with him in both periods, there are some comparisons but also some very notable differences in how MJ worked on those albums.
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don't stop t'ill you get enough, workin'day and night,and co wrote get on the floor
 
But one must not forget that Unbreakable and Threatened, which he also co-wrote, have autobiographical references when one thinks about his difficult childhood, his confrontations with the press, his illnesses and the accusations. These two songs tell almost his whole life.
 
Even as a kid MJ talked about singing what he meant, and as an adult he quoted what Michaelangelo said about binding his soul to his art. I think alot of us just didn't feel that binding with Invincible in comparison to all the other albums. I don't think it's a bad album, but they are not the first songs I go for in MJs catalogue of songs.
But if you like it, you like it, shouldn't make a difference what anyone else thinks.
 
innuendo141 said:
MJ wasted a lot of money not even turning up to work during the Invincible sessions. During the OTW sessions MJ was like a sponge trying to learn everything he could. MJ even got writing credits on songs he had no input in writing on Invincible. On Off The Wall MJ was only credited with what he wrote and contributed to - and a deaf person can hear what those are.

Invincible is what it is.
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1. He was in a bad shape and really exhausted after History era
2. He had kids at that time
3. He was in a really rough relationships with Label Company
4. He was mentally very vulnerable

And even under all these conditions, he still managed to make a decent album. Not one of his best of course, but not bad at all. During Off The Wall production, he had nothing to do, but write music. He was young, sober and full of energy. And he was absolutely opposite during Invincible sessions.

It's like blaming drunk man for bad driving even though he drives almost like sober person.
 
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mj_frenzy said:
The 'Invincible' album sounds more impersonal compared to the 'Off The Wall' album.
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I wouldn't say that. Was musical direction of OTW album chosed by Michael? Because for Invincible it absolutely was. And many songs even though they are not all written by Michael are personal enough for him.

Unbreakable - anti-media song

Speechless - kids with ballons

You Are My Life - Michael's children

The Lost Children - well, the titles speaks for itself

Cry - man in the mirror song

Privacy, Threatened - anti-media song

And most of Off The Wall songs are just love ballads, so why does it sound more personal?
 
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I agree, MJs least critically acclaimed album is still better than most. But when people listen to any album, they are not listening to it in context of the singers background struggles to produce the album, they are just listening for music that they like.

I don't think anyone is blaming MJ, we all know that it was a rough period. But I think it's important not to let our fandom obscure our objectivity.
 
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jasmine.uddin said:
I agree, MJs worst album is still better than most. But when people listen to any album, they are not listening to it in context of the singers background struggles to produce the album, they are just listening for music that they like.

I don't think anyone is blaming MJ, we all know that it was a rough period. But I think it's important not to let our fandom obscure our objectivity.
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Well, the question is, what is Michael Jackson worst album? Off The Wall or Invincible?
 
Invincible has some good songs, I really like HCW, B, BOD, WH and YRMW. And OTW has some iconic songs, I think for me personally OTW comes across as a more cohesive album than Invincible, and that could be because Invincible did appear to have too many producers/writers. But I can appreciate that MJ was always evolving as an artist.
 
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Masonh said:
1. He was in a bad shape and really exhausted after History era
2. He had kids at that time
3. He was in a really rough relationships with Label Company
4. He was mentally very vulnerable

And even under all these conditions, he still managed to make a decent album. Not one of his best of course, but not bad at all. During Off The Wall production, he had nothing to do, but write music. He was young, sober and full of energy. And he was absolutely opposite during Invincible sessions.

It's like blaming drunk man for bad driving even though he drives almost like sober person.
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You've just answered your own original post with this post 👍
 
I think people criticize Michael's lack of involvement with Invincible because they are comparing it to Thriller, Bad, Dangerous and History - the 4 albums directly preceding it. Comparing it to his first ever adult solo album (recorded 20 years prior) is a bit disingenuous. But, if you like Invincible better than Off The Wall that's OK. You shouldn't need validation from other fans.

Invincible, imo, wasn't a great album for many reasons besides the number of songs he wrote or didn't write. It's certainly a very long conversation to have but someone summed it up perfectly when they said he sounded like a guest artist on his own album. Definitely not the case with Off The Wall, imo.
 
Masonh said:
2. He had kids at that time
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What does this have to do with anything? Many entertainers have children, official or otherwise (ones with groupies that they might not know about, or don't claim). Madonna has 2 bio children and several others she adopted. She didn't stop her career. Most non-celebrities don't have the luxury of not working. They aren't millionaires. The average job in the US don't even give women much time for maternity leave.
 
DuranDuran said:
What does this have to do with anything? Many entertainers have children, official or otherwise (ones with groupies that they might not know about, or don't claim). Madonna has 2 bio children and several others she adopted. She didn't stop her career. Most non-celebrities don't have the luxury of not working. They aren't millionaires. The average job in the US don't even give women much time for maternity leave.
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Do you remember what happened with Fall Again?
 
DuranDuran said:
What does this have to do with anything? Many entertainers have children, official or otherwise (ones with groupies that they might not know about, or don't claim). Madonna has 2 bio children and several others she adopted. She didn't stop her career.
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Neither Michael, but it was hard for him to continue working
 
In Threatened with its Rod Serling rap you can clearly see that Michael still had the urge for creativity.
 
I don’t care if MJ himself wrote it if it’s a great song and there is many great ones on each album he did.. I don’t get the complaining.
 
during the making of the ‘off the wall’ album, michael was in the middle of the ‘destiny’ world tour. he was literally flying back and forth from various countries in between sessions. he even developed throat problems whilst performing and had to either cancel dates, or continue sounding bad. there’s audio of michael apologising to the audience.

just because only three of michael’s compositions made the album, that doesn’t mean that’s all he created during this time. songs like ‘little susie’, allegedly , ‘sunset driver’ and even an early version of ‘wanna be startin’ somethin’, were written during this period.

michael was heavily involved with the making of the ‘triumph’ album, which was released only a year later when ‘off the wall’ was still on the charts.

truthfully, 1978-1984 was probably when michael was the most prolific. with back to back projects with little to no breaks.

to imply that he was ‘doing nothing’ outside of the album is false and disrespectful. this is yet another sad & desperate attempt to minimise anything that came before 1987..
 
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