Latest on MJJC

The Discussion of MJ's Unreleased Tracks

Sensual visionary said:
It’s interesting for sure! 😅
I think MJ has famously said to the effect that you can’t force good music. It takes time and it’s important to work on whatever feels important at the time. What speaks the strongest to you. Otherwise it’s mechanical work with less real emotion.

There’s good reason his released music is very authentic and representative of his mindset at each time. But also practical reasons things were released had much to do with team work and how far along producers were at any given time. And whether others on his team were really attuned to his vision…

He seemed to work ”by epiphany”, often calling people in the middle of the night with ideas on his ongoing work…

Being the sole overseer of (over the years) many hundreds of songs and ideas is quite a task, especially for OCD folks like MJ.
And the old ideas had to compete with his ongoing creativity which was at times extremely productive.
I think the song lists found after his death show how structured he knew he had to be to get anything done.

Still, when something just took over his system, like Billie Jean which didn’t need too many embellishments, it could be perfected it in quite a short time.

But imagine ideas of that calibre that weren’t released for years… it makes sense that they would continue to speak strongly
Like releasing little suzy in the 90s

Some of the most heartfelt music grows slowly 😊
Click to expand...
Yeah, true... I would go crazy knowing I have so much unfinished material, tbh I would probably forget about most things, so I could go on with other projects 😅. Really interesting.
 
threepea11 said:
You’re right, if you pitch it down by 5, you can hear the beat it intro being overdubbed
Click to expand...
Short story: Im a dj as well & caught on to this about 16 years ago. I was just messing around with b.o.w one day & had that part looped & stopped for a min because I was already on cloud 9 for letting it loop so many times & then I slowed it down & was like 🤯..... THATS BEAT IT lol
 
wonderouzmj said:
Short story: Im a dj as well & caught on to this about 16 years ago. I was just messing around with b.o.w one day & had that part looped & stopped for a min because I was already on cloud 9 for letting it loop so many times & then I slowed it down & was like 🤯..... THATS BEAT IT lol
Click to expand...
This Beat It song sounds really important. I don't remember MJ releasing a song with that name. After Off The Wall he dropped this album Starlight Sun and then he retired full time in Ireland. Is this "Beat It" an outtake from that time?

Also why is gas so expensive here?
 
SmoothGangsta said:
I still do think that leaked TYLA Neff U Mix file was messed around with. It sounds awful, even the overdubs.
Click to expand...
Absolutely, I really doubt the final mix was ever meant to sound that bad, like every instrument's been muffled.

Either it was actually made that way to match the low quality of the vocals, sacrificing the overall mix in the process, or (more likely) it's just a super low-quality file that's been edited and compressed to death.
Honestly, I can't imagine any professional handing in a mix like that lol, even as a low-quality export. No way that version was ever considered for release.
 
SmoothCriminal1995 said:
I think it's ironic how to 10-15 years ago we worried about the Estate tampering with Michael's vision, now we have traders/fans messing with Michael's art before they leak it.

You don't know who or what to believe
Click to expand...
Agreed. I don't believe in tampering with Michael's music. That's just wrong.

The 2010 mix of TYLA which you know has been tampered with and uses heavy compression. I have the full CDQ version, which is not as bad as I initially thought.
 
You guys are being played with. There was no real item to begin with and there's a fake sale for 1.00 € which is a bogus transaction.

I don't want to know what kind of "story" some German scammers are making up this time. At least Fuzball was on to something ...
 
Korgnex said:
You guys are being played with. There was no real item to begin with and there's a fake sale for 1.00 € which is a bogus transaction.

I don't want to know what kind of "story" some German scammers are making up this time. At least Fuzball was on to something ...
Click to expand...
I'll give you a hint: The DAT was picked up from someone outside Germany. Add one and one together and you'll figure it out.

Stop being ignorant — I offered to let you verify the tape beforehand. You never responded to my private message.
 
Korgnex said:
You guys are being played with. There was no real item to begin with and there's a fake sale for 1.00 € which is a bogus transaction.

I don't want to know what kind of "story" some German scammers are making up this time. At least Fuzball was on to something ...
Click to expand...

So it really comes from a playback feed, like Fuzball said? Passing it off as a session tape is still misleading, but I'm curious: how did they even get access to a private studio listening session, if that's the case?
 
Saka21 said:
So it really comes from a playback feed, like Fuzball said? Passing it off as a session tape is still misleading, but I'm curious: how did they even get access to a private studio listening session, if that's the case?
Click to expand...
Sony leaks?
 
I watched the HIStory 30th anniversary discussion that Brad Sundberg posted to his channel. Really fun listen and they answered some fan questions but it got me thinking, are the people that worked with Michael disappointed that fans care so much about unreleased music instead of learning about and appreciating the published ones?

It's amazing to hear the amount of work that went into the songs that made the albums but as a big fan, I am always hoping to hear and learn about the songs that never were. I think the community greatly appreciates the album tracks but maybe the feeling is they've learned everything there is to know about them already and there's nothing left to be told.

I've seen all sorts of reactions to questions about unreleased material. Some will avoid talking about them and quickly change the subject and others can't wait to tell you about them. Sundberg has stated the best stuff has already been put out, but will share demos without a backstory during his seminars. I've heard Buxer mention titles but opt out of playing anything. Other engineers are willing to tell stories pertaining to outtakes like "Much Too Soon" or "Truth on Youth". Bill Bottrell comes off a little disgusted when asked about the unfinished demos but is always willing to answer questions and I'm grateful for that.

I kind of get it, it's like if we were in their shoes and you knew what they had to go through to get this album finished or the lengths we went to with recording this song instead of focusing on the recording of a song idea. The former is probably far more interesting but I wish they'd understand how important it is to let us appreciate all the material and be properly educated.

God knows they could do a better job than the scatterbrained handlers of the estate.
 
smoothvillain said:
I watched the HIStory 30th anniversary discussion that Brad Sundberg posted to his channel. Really fun listen and they answered some fan questions but it got me thinking, are the people that worked with Michael disappointed that fans care so much about unreleased music instead of learning about and appreciating the published ones?

It's amazing to hear the amount of work that went into the songs that made the albums but as a big fan, I am always hoping to hear and learn about the songs that never were. I think the community greatly appreciates the album tracks but maybe the feeling is they've learned everything there is to know about them already and there's nothing left to be told.

I've seen all sorts of reactions to questions about unreleased material. Some will avoid talking about them and quickly change the subject and others can't wait to tell you about them. Sundberg has stated the best stuff has already been put out, but will share demos without a backstory during his seminars. I've heard Buxer mention titles but opt out of playing anything. Other engineers are willing to tell stories pertaining to outtakes like "Much Too Soon" or "Truth on Youth". Bill Bottrell comes off a little disgusted when asked about the unfinished demos but is always willing to answer questions and I'm grateful for that.

I kind of get it, it's like if we were in their shoes and you knew what they had to go through to get this album finished or the lengths we went to with recording this song instead of focusing on the recording of a song idea. The former is probably far more interesting but I wish they'd understand how important it is to let us appreciate all the material and be properly educated.

God knows they could do a better job than the scatterbrained handlers of the estate.
Click to expand...
Concerning Brad (Sundberg) - because of course this came up 😅 - he said he understands the frustration but also that the best stuff is out there (like you already wrote) and what's in the vault are mostly beats/melodies/ideas.

I think they all understand. It's not like we don't appreciate the old albums.
 
smoothvillain said:
I watched the HIStory 30th anniversary discussion that Brad Sundberg posted to his channel. Really fun listen and they answered some fan questions but it got me thinking, are the people that worked with Michael disappointed that fans care so much about unreleased music instead of learning about and appreciating the published ones?

It's amazing to hear the amount of work that went into the songs that made the albums but as a big fan, I am always hoping to hear and learn about the songs that never were. I think the community greatly appreciates the album tracks but maybe the feeling is they've learned everything there is to know about them already and there's nothing left to be told.

I've seen all sorts of reactions to questions about unreleased material. Some will avoid talking about them and quickly change the subject and others can't wait to tell you about them. Sundberg has stated the best stuff has already been put out, but will share demos without a backstory during his seminars. I've heard Buxer mention titles but opt out of playing anything. Other engineers are willing to tell stories pertaining to outtakes like "Much Too Soon" or "Truth on Youth". Bill Bottrell comes off a little disgusted when asked about the unfinished demos but is always willing to answer questions and I'm grateful for that.

I kind of get it, it's like if we were in their shoes and you knew what they had to go through to get this album finished or the lengths we went to with recording this song instead of focusing on the recording of a song idea. The former is probably far more interesting but I wish they'd understand how important it is to let us appreciate all the material and be properly educated.

God knows they could do a better job than the scatterbrained handlers of the estate.
Click to expand...

Its a good podcast I would recommend to everyone interested in hearing stories about recording the albums!
itswmjpodcast00.podbean.com

In The Studio - The Podcast | In The Studio With MJ

Behind the scenes studio stories from music you love, told by the people who were there.
itswmjpodcast00.podbean.com itswmjpodcast00.podbean.com

I just listened to the History one you mentioned. Two things might be interesting for the unreleased song crowd in here: At about 1hour in, someone mentions there are about 20 Rene (Moore) songs they worked on. At about 1hr8min it is mentioned there are some Babyface collaborations that are great.
But, as already mentioned, they most likely aren't finished songs but more like demos, grooves, ideas and experiments.
 
When I asked him about the unreleased material in the vault and whether he wants those unfinished songs or work-in-progress mixes to be published, he hinted and joked at being disappointed that the estate doesn't release more unreleased tracks, demos, and early versions of the songs that were eventually released
 
mjfp said:
When I asked him about the unreleased material in the vault and whether he wants those unfinished songs or work-in-progress mixes to be published, he hinted and joked at being disappointed that the estate doesn't release more unreleased tracks, demos, and early versions of the songs that were eventually released
Click to expand...
Oh thats interesting :) Were you there this weekend in Frankfurt? Beause I don't remember Brad speaking about that. Did you ask him im private?
 
smoothvillain said:
I watched the HIStory 30th anniversary discussion that Brad Sundberg posted to his channel. Really fun listen and they answered some fan questions but it got me thinking, are the people that worked with Michael disappointed that fans care so much about unreleased music instead of learning about and appreciating the published ones?

It's amazing to hear the amount of work that went into the songs that made the albums but as a big fan, I am always hoping to hear and learn about the songs that never were. I think the community greatly appreciates the album tracks but maybe the feeling is they've learned everything there is to know about them already and there's nothing left to be told.

I've seen all sorts of reactions to questions about unreleased material. Some will avoid talking about them and quickly change the subject and others can't wait to tell you about them. Sundberg has stated the best stuff has already been put out, but will share demos without a backstory during his seminars. I've heard Buxer mention titles but opt out of playing anything. Other engineers are willing to tell stories pertaining to outtakes like "Much Too Soon" or "Truth on Youth". Bill Bottrell comes off a little disgusted when asked about the unfinished demos but is always willing to answer questions and I'm grateful for that.

I kind of get it, it's like if we were in their shoes and you knew what they had to go through to get this album finished or the lengths we went to with recording this song instead of focusing on the recording of a song idea. The former is probably far more interesting but I wish they'd understand how important it is to let us appreciate all the material and be properly educated.

God knows they could do a better job than the scatterbrained handlers of the estate.
Click to expand...
Very valid question!

In my opinion, you hit the nail on the head: MJ’s official catalog has already been examined, dissected, and documented to a decently extensive degree. Of course some albums have gotten more attention than others, and it’s important to keep these conversations going for newcomers and the next generation. But at this point, I’ve heard the story of Quincy accidentally stumbling on “Human Nature” a million times, and I just don’t care to hear it again.

His vault is more tantalizing to me because it’s so shrouded in mystery and uncertainty. It seems like every year we discover another song title, or we learn that a song that was commonly thought to be an instrumental actually has full vocals, or we’re told that a track thought to have been recorded for Invincible originated during the Bad sessions. There’s so many unanswered questions.

For me, while I’d savor the opportunity, I don’t have much interest in hearing another anecdote about the recording of “Black or White.” But if Michael Prince offered to tell us about “H2O?” I’d be sat.
 
AlwaysThere said:
Very valid question!

In my opinion, you hit the nail on the head: MJ’s official catalog has already been examined, dissected, and documented to a decently extensive degree. Of course some albums have gotten more attention than others, and it’s important to keep these conversations going for newcomers and the next generation. But at this point, I’ve heard the story of Quincy accidentally stumbling on “Human Nature” a million times, and I just don’t care to hear it again.

His vault is more tantalizing to me because it’s so shrouded in mystery and uncertainty. It seems like every year we discover another song title, or we learn that a song that was commonly thought to be an instrumental actually has full vocals, or we’re told that a track thought to have been recorded for Invincible originated during the Bad sessions. There’s so many unanswered questions.

For me, while I’d savor the opportunity, I don’t have much interest in hearing another anecdote about the recording of “Black or White.” But if Michael Prince offered to tell us about “H2O?” I’d be sat.
Click to expand...
And we have every reason to have hope.

BAD25 had some very good demo's (and we know there is much more from that era). Xscape gave us Lovin' You which we didn't even know that title existed. Dream Away got leaked and we had no clue about that title and that song deserved to be released.

So you can't blame fans for always asking about what's in the vault when it's been proven there are some great songs and titles we have never heard of before.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top