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The Discussion of MJ's Unreleased Tracks

MJJuniorSinceMW said:
‚Blood On The Dancefloor’ is
‚Little Susie Pt. 2‘
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Are you denying the direct melodic, structural and thematic through line from Billie Jean ---> Price of Fame ---> Who Is It? Believing Michael to be unaware of their similarities, in my opinion, insults his ability as a songwriter for self-quotation and intertextuality
 
AlwaysThere said:
Not sure I’d call Bryan’s music timeless. It’s all very distinctly late 80s / early 90s funk imbued NJS. I enjoy what he did with MJ and think he gets way too much hate, but his material was not at all worthy of making the final album. A lot of it felt like bargain bin Prince material (and this from someone who doesn’t like Prince).
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Indeed. Teddy’s songs simply blew Bryan’s songs out of the water, as much as Bryan would have loathed to admit. Once Michael heard Teddy’s grooves, that was the way do go.
 
On the Victory album assistent engineer Mike Hatcher's name appears only on Be Not Always. What might be the other track he's co-engineered - BB?🤔


Billboard 06/16/1984

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Eventidescape1 said:
Indeed. Teddy’s songs simply blew Bryan’s songs out of the water, as much as Bryan would have loathed to admit. Once Michael heard Teddy’s grooves, that was the way do go.
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Serious Effect
Work That Body
Superfly Sister
She Got It
Versus
Jam
Why You Wanna Trip on Me
Remember The Time
Dangerous

Like yeah. It’s not a contest. Jam alone sounds incredible still on sub woofers.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Serious Effect
Work That Body
Superfly Sister
She Got It
Versus
Jam
Why You Wanna Trip on Me
Remember The Time
Dangerous

Like yeah. It’s not a contest. Jam alone sounds incredible still on sub woofers.
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Yeah, those Bryan Loren songs you mentioned are definitely among the good ones of what he did with Michael... Serious Effect I think should have made the cut on Dangerous, that is Bryan's best song.
But musically & sonically it's obvious the Teddy songs hit another level... It moves me in a way that Bryan's material doesn't - the driving beats, the powerful sounds etc. I think Michael made the right decision to include those songs on Dangerous to complement other strong material - Black or White, Give Into Me, Heal The World etc.

There is a difference between a "good" song and a "great" song, and this is pretty much the case here between Bryan's and Teddy's material. Though that is subject to your own taste, in the end. But it was about what Michael wanted anyhow.
 
Eventidescape1 said:
Yeah, those Bryan Loren songs you mentioned are definitely among the good ones of what he did with Michael... Serious Effect I think should have made the cut on Dangerous, that is Bryan's best song.
But musically & sonically it's obvious the Teddy songs hit another level... It moves me in a way that Bryan's material doesn't - the driving beats, the powerful sounds etc. I think Michael made the right decision to include those songs on Dangerous to complement other strong material - Black or White, Give Into Me, Heal The World etc.

There is a difference between a "good" song and a "great" song, and this is pretty much the case here between Bryan's and Teddy's material. Though that is subject to your own taste, in the end. But it was about what Michael wanted anyhow.
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Bryan's sound was just too dated by the time Dangerous was being released.
 
SeriousEffect. said:
Bryan's sound was just too dated by the time Dangerous was being released.
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Michael would have dug Bryan's sound earlier in the recording (fall 1989/1990), with that Shanice record being his favourite.

But that would change with hearing Janet's "The Knowledge", and striving for something as hard and driving as that... And he sure hit the jackpot with getting Teddy on the project in early 1991. It is the change in direction that influenced it all.
 
Why did it take so long for Teddy to come into the picture? Riley worked on The Jackson's 2300 Street album in '89. By this time he had already made a name for himself.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Serious Effect
Work That Body
Superfly Sister
She Got It
Versus
Jam
Why You Wanna Trip on Me
Remember The Time
Dangerous

Like yeah. It’s not a contest. Jam alone sounds incredible still on sub woofers.
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I like all of these songs I listed. And I even like most of those Loren songs more than some of the Teddy songs (Serious Effect, Superfly Sister, over Jam and Remember The Time personally)

But there is no contest still. The latter set has endured longer.
 
The cinematography aspect of MJ also plays a huge role in the inspiration of his music as well.

He really truly wanted to be a director because it seems like most songs he really liked came with a video idea attached or would lead to one shortly. The Dangerous performance, the Remember The Time video. Even something like Jam, with both MJs together. Very passionate ideas for short films.

None of the Loren stuff, even the best of it, inspired MJ to make short films. Buffalo Bill, even as great a song as it seems to be, probably didn’t inspire MJ artistically, in the way that Smooth Criminal would.

I would not call this a hard and fast rule but it definitely is an easy byline for things.

That is why I largely enjoy Invincible because it does feel pretty cinematic in listening to it. I can see short films accompanying the songs very well.
 
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