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Who was MJ's best manager?

alanram said:
Mister Jay Tee, with all due respect, you are the one with 4000 messages here. Saying that I'm terminally online is a bit ironic coming from you.

Both are betrayals. Again, you are missing the point. I said it was "yet another form of betrayal, just like the (...) allegations". Never did I compare the seriousness of these events. Personally, I must agree that the allegations did more damage to Michael Jackson's legacy than the release of fradulent songs ever could. Definitely. However, this was NEVER the point in debate here. It seems to me that your are desperately trying to find fault in my words, leading you to conjure up an argument I never made.

By the way, what was the first 'absolutely horrible take' I supposedly served?
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It's about quality, not quantity. And yours are the ones coming off very detached from society.

Fine, I may concede that both are "betrayals". The allegations are way more serious, so serious I consider them taboo to even mention outside of certain spaces, nay, consider it taboo to even mention Michael Jackson outside of my safe zones in real life. The Casio tracks are at this point a fascinating oddity you bring up as a trivia bit. It's only salacious to hardcore fans. Hence, why I said, terminally online. Between this and the AI fuss, you're just incredibly deadset on hating everything boldly not MJ, no ifs, ands, or butts. Next you're gonna say covers are wrong.

And this is not a cosign of those songs. But the facts are.


Even though I disregard them, they have not actually, been proven to be fake. They are very glaringly suspect, and they are very likely writers demos meant for MJ to hear, but if I can use that technicality, then i shall. The Casio event does not invalidate everything good Dileo made happen. Anyway, Branca is still the one to pin blame on, because he's in charge.
 
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Probably Branca. I always laugh that he is a lawyer too. I think that is great. Between him and Dieter Wiesner i think. That is who i would choose to manage me.
Frank...hmm.. I'm not so convinced.
John Mcclain...mmmm. no. I don't know too much about him. What does he do again? 🙃

Can't forget Mr Bill Bray & Rose Fine :)
Well I know they weren't actual managers but they were part of his team too.
Michael's team wasn't so huge right ?

Nice little thread here.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
It's about quality, not quantity. And yours are the ones coming off very detached from society.

Fine, I may concede that both are "betrayals". The allegations are way more serious, so serious I consider them taboo to even mention outside of certain spaces, nay, consider it taboo to even mention Michael Jackson outside of my safe zones in real life. The Casio tracks are at this point a fascinating oddity you bring up as a trivia bit. It's only salacious to hardcore fans. Hence, why I said, terminally online. Between this and the AI fuss, you're just incredibly deadset on hating everything boldly not MJ, no ifs, ands, or butts. Next you're gonna say covers are wrong.

And this is not a cosign of those songs. But the facts are.


Even though I disregard them, they have not actually, been proven to be fake. They are very glaringly suspect, and they are very likely writers demos meant for MJ to hear, but if I can use that technicality, then i shall. The Casio event does not invalidate everything good Dileo made happen. Anyway, Branca is still the one to pin bland on, because he's in charge.
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I'm sorry, but you are mistaken. I didn't bring the allegations into this debate to equate them with the Cascio event, nor did I downplay their seriousness. They are definitely more severe than the Cascio Tracks, and it would be idiotic of me to say otherwise — which I never did. I mentioned these allegations because they are "yet ANOTHER form of betrayal".

Also, we are all "hardcore" fans on this forum, aren't we? I'm certain that most of the readers did understand my point, which was completely related to the thread's topic. Again, it seems to me that you are trying to misinterpret my words, leading to debates about assertions I never made. That's why we don't even have a discussion here. You're implying I made statements that I simply did not, while I'm attempting to clarify my actual stance.

It seems odd that you have considered my arguments "very detached from society" when my primary concern is the ethical misstep of Kai Danzberg cloning a deceased person's voice WITHOUT familial consent or authorization from the copyright owner. Not only that, but Danzberg went so far as to register these fabricated songs under his own name at BMI, which is simply insane. Essentially, they are fan-made creations that should NEVER be officially released, yet he's attempting to do just that. I'm perplexed at the lack of empathy coming from some of you. Michael Jackson was a human being, a real person. He would absolutely hate to see his vocals cloned and slapped into songs he never intended to release. This is scenario is totally different from covers, which are NOT artificially created using a copyrighted dataset.

And for the record, there's ample evidence proving the inauthenticity of the Cascio Tracks. Please do your homework.
 
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alanram said:
I'm sorry, but you are mistaken. I didn't bring the allegations into this debate to equate them with the Cascio event, nor did I downplay their seriousness. They are definitely more severe than the Cascio Tracks, and it would be idiotic of me to say otherwise — which I never did. I mentioned these allegations because they are "yet ANOTHER form of betrayal".

Also, we are all "hardcore" fans on this forum, aren't we? I'm certain that most of the readers did understand my point, which was completely related to the thread's topic. Again, it seems to me that you are trying to misinterpret my words, leading to debates about assertions I never made. That's why we don't even have a discussion here. You're implying I made statements that I simply did not, while I'm attempting to clarify my actual stance.

It seems odd that you have considered my arguments "very detached from society" when my primary concern is the ethical misstep of Kai Danzberg cloning a deceased person's voice WITHOUT familial consent or authorization from the copyright owner. Not only that, but Danzberg went so far as to register these fabricated songs under his own name at BMI, which is simply insane. Essentially, they are fan-made creations that should NEVER be officially released, yet he's attempting to do just that. I'm perplexed at the lack of empathy coming from some of you. Michael Jackson was a human being, a real person. He would absolutely hate to see his vocals cloned and slapped into songs he never intended to release. This is scenario is totally different from covers, which are NOT artificially created using a copyrighted dataset.

And for the record, there's ample evidence proving the inauthenticity of the Cascio Tracks. Please do your homework.
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You are a broken record. I win.. you lose.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
I don't think this has ever been a point of discussion. This might really break new grounds.

Between:

Joe Jackson (Last in my opinion)
Branca
John Mcclain
Frank Dileo
Thome Thome
Other

Who is your bid for someone MJ could actually be productive with, and got out of the way enough to let him be productive enough? We're talking about during MJs lifetime, so not any posthumous records unless it's as an additional point.
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I would not considering Branca a manager. He was his lawyer for example the same time when Dileo and others were Michaels manager.
 
wendijane said:
Probably Branca. I always laugh that he is a lawyer too. I think that is great. Between him and Dieter Wiesner i think. That is who i would choose to manage me.
Frank...hmm.. I'm not so convinced.
John Mcclain...mmmm. no. I don't know too much about him. What does he do again? 🙃

Can't forget Mr Bill Bray & Rose Fine :)
Well I know they weren't actual managers but they were part of his team too.
Michael's team wasn't so huge right ?

Nice little thread here.
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Oh, if Mrs. Fine is eligible then I must change my vote!
 
Judging by managerial work only, not by personal character, and given what Michael and his brothers have said after the fact.
Joe Jackson is in no way the worst manager MJ ever had! He is probably close to being the best, and for simple reason:

He lay the groundwork of the careers of all the Jackson siblings and then captained the ship all the way through, getting the kids, most notably, the audition with Motown!

He also never tried to sabotage his son's career in any way, even if he indeed tried to make profit out of him, especially as he grew distant from the family; he never tried to steal money away from Michael, nor did he purposefully mismanage his money to steal it, nor did he ever backstab Michael with false accusations intended to get more money out of him through blackmail (90% of his later entourage has been guilty of any of these, and more keep coming out dropping their fake masks like the Cascios!). Oh, he also did not engage in any elaborate conspiracy to steal away his legacy and his properties from him, and possibly engineered his death as well, like others (lawyers?) did.

In fact, Joe and the rest of the family tried to warn Michael about many of the vultures and predators approaching him and his circle of yesmen (dangerous on their own right but anyway), but said circle and Michael himself (a lot of the time) just wouldn't let them into his life again.

Joe agreed with Michael's decision to leave the group, actually. He famously called the rest of the brothers "lazy fucks" (a total lie IMO, btw, they were all hard workers) and told them Michael was doing the right thing abandoning them. He also was the patriarch encouraging the family in their defense of Michael everywhere in the media during the 90s and 2000s when the controversies were getting out of hand.

We have to recognize that sometimes reality is nuanced and complicated. Joe Jackson being an abusive father does not mean he was a terrible manager (if he was so bad, then we would have no Jackson 5 or Michael Jackson as we know them!), and it does not mean either that he did not love his family in his own way. Joe haad many many many issues as a person, but he NEVER backstabbed any of his family members (well, if you count being unfaithful to Katherine I guess) and always advocated for the family to stay united, for better or for worse.
 
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Lasagna_Man2 said:
Judging by managerial work only, not by personal character, and given what Michael and his brothers have said after the fact.
Joe Jackson is in no way the worst manager MJ ever had! He is probably close to being the best, and for simple reason:

He lay the groundwork of the careers of all the Jackson siblings and then captained the ship all the way through, getting the kids, most notably, the audition with Motown!

He also never tried to sabotage his son's career in any way, even if he indeed tried to make profit out of him, especially as he grew distant from the family; he never tried to steal money away from Michael, nor did he purposefully mismanage his money to steal it, nor did he ever backstab Michael with false accusations intended to get more money out of him through blackmail (90% of his later entourage has been guilty of any of these, and more keep coming out dropping their fake masks like the Cascios!). Oh, he also did not engage in any elaborate conspiracy to steal away his legacy and his properties from him, and possibly engineered his death as well, like others (lawyers?) did.

In fact, Joe and the rest of the family tried to warn Michael about many of the vultures and predators approaching him and his circle of yesmen (dangerous on their own right but anyway), but said circle and Michael himself (a lot of the time) just wouldn't let them into his life again.

Joe agreed with Michael's decision to leave the group, actually. He famously called the rest of the brothers "lazy fucks" (a total lie IMO, btw, they were all hard workers) and told them Michael was doing the right thing abandoning them. He also was the patriarch encouraging the family in their defense of Michael everywhere in the media during the 90s and 2000s when the controversies were getting out of hand.

We have to recognize that sometimes reality is nuanced and complicated. Joe Jackson being an abusive father does not mean he was a terrible manager (if he was so bad, then we would have no Jackson 5 or Michael Jackson as we know them!), and it does not mean either that he did not love his family in his own way. Joe haad many many many issues as a person, but he NEVER backstabbed any of his family members (well, if you count being unfaithful to Katherine I guess) and always advocated for the family to stay united, for better or for worse.
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I have to agree.
 
Reading these threads, my own words, I barely recognize who I even was honestly. That’s both good and bad.

It’s crazy how influential every one of these characters were and yet how they all severely damaged Michael in one way or another.
 
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