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The Discussion of MJ's Unreleased Tracks

SmoothMel7 said:
I was lucky enough to hear the actual 2008 demo at a seminar with Brad Buxer and Michael Prince. The lyrics were exactly the same as the demo I remembered. There might have been one extra line, but I'm not sure anymore.
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Thank you! Although my hopes for a recorded bridge now totally vanished.. :)

It's such a strange demo. To be honest I don't really like the demo nor the mixes they did of it. But, and I already had this discussion here, for some reason I think the track MJ envisioned was more like 'Who Is It' or 'Dangerous', instead of a dance song..? That I would like!
The choir in the beginning, like Who Is It.. The use of the Hall & Oates drums is weird, although that track might have inspired BJ never heard it on a MJ demo: was the whole vibe supposed to be more intense/dark like BJ? Then again, the rhythm guitar of David Williams would make it funky? Would it sound 80's, 90's or 00's MJ? An 'Invincible' style beat or more modern..?

So many questions..
Thoughts anyone..??
 
I didn't know Bill was working on solo songs with MJ at Hayvenhurst in 1984 while work on Victory continued


B4fGXoY.jpeg
 
Fuzball said:
I didn't know Bill was working on solo songs with MJ at Hayvenhurst in 1984 while work on Victory continued


B4fGXoY.jpeg
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As per Bottrell’s diaries posted earlier he started working in Hayvenhurst in October ‘85. Could be mixing things up a bit though as this was almost 40 years ago
 
Eventidescape1 said:
As per Bottrell’s diaries posted earlier he started working in Hayvenhurst in October ‘85. Could be mixing things up a bit though as this was almost 40 years ago
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Well, Michael hired Bill for work on daily basis once Hayvenhurst studio was remodeled in late 1985. Before that he'd work with Bill occasionally.
 
Fuzball said:
Well, Michael hired Bill for work on daily basis once Hayvenhurst studio was remodeled in late 1985. Before that he'd work with Bill occasionally.
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Before Matt or Bill even worked at Hayvenhurst, Michael had Brent Averill as his home engineer from 1979 to 1985.

Still, I kind of doubt how accurate Bill’s memory is of meeting Janet for the first time while working on Bad. This was 40 years ago, bear that in mind.
 
Pollonio said:
Still don't understand where are the "60 or 80 songs recorded for Invincible" ?

It looks like there were only 30 songs recorded : the 16 songs in the Invincible and the dozen released in TUC and Xscape.

Where are the others ? We have no informations, no snippets about...
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if you add up all the writer demos plus the outtakes recorded by Michael and his unfinished demos, you get numbers like that.

Michael himself liked to emphasize how many songs he worked on for his albums. We know that he liked to bluff a bit and probably also counted instrumental ideas, etc.

Unfortunately, most of the material in the archives is not suitable for posthumous Michael Jackson solo songs. If the songs contain vocals, then they are usually only patchy, such as on the song "In The Back" released in 2004 on the Ultimate Collection

Most of the finished material has probably already been released (think of the bonus tracks on the special editions from 2001 etc!) or has been leaked online.
 
@Se1cuk__
·
Apr 22
Can you estimate on how many songs in total you have worked on with the Jackson siblings during Victory sessions?

@BillBottrell
I would have to look it up.
I can say that the final track list (on wiki) shows the songs I recorded and mixed, and 3 others done by Toto dudes.
I do remember at least 1, maybe 2 songs that don't appear on the final.

@BillBottrell
Dude. I produced Toy Matinee from top to bottom.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1914774147181502572
 
SmoothMel7 said:
@Se1cuk__
·
Apr 22
Can you estimate on how many songs in total you have worked on with the Jackson siblings during Victory sessions?

@BillBottrell
I would have to look it up.
I can say that the final track list (on wiki) shows the songs I recorded and mixed, and 3 others done by Toto dudes.
I do remember at least 1, maybe 2 songs that don't appear on the final.

@BillBottrell
Dude. I produced Toy Matinee from top to bottom.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1914774147181502572
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It would be great if he'd post recording dates from 1983/4. Maybe they'll be some songs that were mentioned at the 1993 deposition.
 
Guys, we all completely forgot about another Rodney Jerkins banger - Rampage! This is the last song from Unbreakable-GYWOOM family. I don't exactly remeber is it completed or not, but I'm sure it's one of the best outtakes from Invincible sessions
 

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I'm still wondering from what songs these snippets are. The first one sound like it's from the 2000s. The 2nd really sounds like a Bryan Loren song (maybe "Stay" or something like that).
 
Is this just a stem edit or an actual like demo or smth?
I love all these additional parts but I do feel it's a little too much compared to the final ver.
 
The Off The Wall sessions are such low-hanging fruit for the Estate. They could put together a very decent boxset of just those ten songs with the basic trackings, uncut mixes, extended versions and alternate takes.

I did a full remix of the album (excluding ICHI album version) for my podcast some years ago and made mixdowns with this concept in mind. I just can't find the mastered versions in my archive at the moment.

Screenshot-2025-04-29-at-5-37-45-pm.png
 
JohnC said:
The Off The Wall sessions are such low-hanging fruit for the Estate. They could put together a very decent boxset of just those ten songs with the basic trackings, uncut mixes, extended versions and alternate takes.

I did a full remix of the album (excluding ICHI album version) for my podcast some years ago and made mixdowns with this concept in mind. I just can't find the mastered versions in my archive at the moment.

Screenshot-2025-04-29-at-5-37-45-pm.png
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Now that Quincy has passed, the issue that arose with the Immortal album (where Quincy was to get 1st preference for any remixing of any of the MJ material he worked on) I imagine that this is no longer in effect? The Estate should be able to remix the 79-87 songs without issue? Failing that, the Estate could reach out to Quincy's Estate to make some arrangement for the work of MJ and Quincy going forward. I would be interested in hearing a stripped/rough mix of OTW, Thriller and Bad but being respectful of the work that Quincy and Bruce put in.

It's insane the amount of multitracks we have available to us, the general public.
 
innuendo141 said:
Now that Quincy has passed, the issue that arose with the Immortal album (where Quincy was to get 1st preference for any remixing of any of the MJ material he worked on) I imagine that this is no longer in effect? The Estate should be able to remix the 79-87 songs without issue? Failing that, the Estate could reach out to Quincy's Estate to make some arrangement for the work of MJ and Quincy going forward. I would be interested in hearing a stripped/rough mix of OTW, Thriller and Bad but being respectful of the work that Quincy and Bruce put in.

It's insane the amount of multitracks we have available to us, the general public.
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So many missed opportunities while Bruce was alive.

Especially the MJ penned songs on the Bad album with an original length of aprox 8 to 9 minutes each, could have been released on a definitive edition of Bad. I don't think Q would have vetoed it if the mixes were done propperly.
 
Fuzball said:
So many missed opportunities while Bruce was alive.

Especially the MJ penned songs on the Bad album with an original length of aprox 8 to 9 minutes each, could have been released on a definitive edition of Bad. I don't think Q would have vetoed it if the mixes were done propperly.
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Agree but the casual fan doesn't really care about this kind of stuff and it probably wouldn't generate much money so the Estate doesn't care.
 
I‘m reading a lot on the MJ Wiki / Fandom lately. Especially about unreleased tracks.

What do you think… is it possible that there are unreleased tracks that are still completely unknown to us? I mean tracks that are not registered yet.
 
mjfan_93 said:
I‘m reading a lot on the MJ Wiki / Fandom lately. Especially about unreleased tracks.

What do you think… is it possible that there are unreleased tracks that are still completely unknown to us? I mean tracks that are not registered yet.
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Of course it is possible. Remember the situation of Dream away, noone knew the song until it was leaked and this was just a few years ago. There will be unknown titles, but i dont think that there are many and most of them are not in a much finished state i guess
 
mjfan_93 said:
I‘m reading a lot on the MJ Wiki / Fandom lately. Especially about unreleased tracks.

What do you think… is it possible that there are unreleased tracks that are still completely unknown to us? I mean tracks that are not registered yet.
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Throughout the years we have been learning about tracks that were completely unknown to us (Dream Away being hidden for 40 years, songs mentioned in the Jeffré Phillips lawsuit and many other examples) so it's not even a question anymore. I totally believe that there are more songs in the vault that we don't know of than ones that we already do.
 
Scared of the Moon said:
I'm still wondering from what songs these snippets are. The first one sound like it's from the 2000s. The 2nd really sounds like a Bryan Loren song (maybe "Stay" or something like that).
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These Beats were made by Eric Kirkland for Invincible. I don`t think Michael was interested in the first one, because it sounds like a standard Hip Hop Beat from that era. The second one is "Shut Up And Dance" which Kirkland created as a kind of 80s retro track. As far as I know, Michael never recorded vocals. But there is a recording on which Eric Kirkland sings in Michael's style. (similar to Jungle City, which was sung by Dr. Freeze.)

The song was even on the list at the Villa in June 2009, so Michael liked the song.

Eric Kirkland is a member of the R+B/Hip Hop vocal band "Portrait". Their debut-single "Here We Go Again!" from 1992 sampled I Can't Help it.
 
ueli84 said:
These Beats were made by Eric Kirkland for Invincible. I don`t think Michael was interested in the first one, because it sounds like a standard Hip Hop Beat from that era. The second one is "Shut Up And Dance" which Kirkland created as a kind of 80s retro track. As far as I know, Michael never recorded vocals. But there is a recording on which Eric Kirkland sings in Michael's style. (similar to Jungle City, which was sung by Dr. Freeze.)

The song was even on the list at the Villa in June 2009, so Michael liked the song.

Eric Kirkland is a member of the R+B/Hip Hop vocal band "Portrait". Their debut-single "Here We Go Again!" from 1992 sampled I Can't Help it.
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Interesting. Shut up and dance sounds funky, would love to hear the version with vocals.
 
"Shut Up And Dance" is one of the songs I've been wanting to hear the most and the fact that it's been under our noses this whole time is absolutely hilarious lol. I think Joe Vogel described it as being similar to a Stevie Wonder song and I can kind of hear that with that snippet. I hope we get to hear the full song one day, if Michael held on to that demo for 10 years means there's potential there.
 
ueli84 said:
These Beats were made by Eric Kirkland for Invincible. I don`t think Michael was interested in the first one, because it sounds like a standard Hip Hop Beat from that era. The second one is "Shut Up And Dance" which Kirkland created as a kind of 80s retro track. As far as I know, Michael never recorded vocals. But there is a recording on which Eric Kirkland sings in Michael's style. (similar to Jungle City, which was sung by Dr. Freeze.)

The song was even on the list at the Villa in June 2009, so Michael liked the song.

Eric Kirkland is a member of the R+B/Hip Hop vocal band "Portrait". Their debut-single "Here We Go Again!" from 1992 sampled I Can't Help it.
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Wow, “Shut Up and Dance” is… average sounding. I recall Joe Vogel saying it was Stevie Wonder reminiscent, and I can kinda hear that. Maybe with vocals it would be better, but this little snippet isn’t very encouraging.
 
ueli84 said:
These Beats were made by Eric Kirkland for Invincible. I don`t think Michael was interested in the first one, because it sounds like a standard Hip Hop Beat from that era. The second one is "Shut Up And Dance" which Kirkland created as a kind of 80s retro track. As far as I know, Michael never recorded vocals. But there is a recording on which Eric Kirkland sings in Michael's style. (similar to Jungle City, which was sung by Dr. Freeze.)

The song was even on the list at the Villa in June 2009, so Michael liked the song.

Eric Kirkland is a member of the R+B/Hip Hop vocal band "Portrait". Their debut-single "Here We Go Again!" from 1992 sampled I Can't Help it.
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Okay, before said something, first share your source. There’s no proof that the second snippet is SUAD, also, Damien Shields couldn’t recognize it when i asked on X with about these snippets
 
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